TE/Implant OVER pectoral Can exercise, comfortable &NO RIPPLES!
Comments
-
Hi Bird-of-Light, I had a subpectoral TE. Just the most miserable experience on earth. I absolutely HATED how it felt TIGHT, TIGHT, TIGHT!!!!! Also my strength was gone, I literally couldn't open a bag of chips.
That is why I took out the TE, tried Fat Grafting several times to build a breast and help repair the massive radiation fibrosis done to me. I wasn't sucessful in creating a breast with Fat Grafting alone but I did create a layer of cushioning fat that helped immensely when I finally did a new TE/Silicone Implant as Prepectoral Implant Reconstruction. My muscle wasn't even sewn back down, but despite that I got back good range of motion and my strength is almost back to normal. Also the hideous animation deformity and insane tightness stoppef after suffering with it for about 3 years of misery.
I want all women getting Reconstruction to know how much superior Prepectoral is to Subpectoral for almost all women. Especially good for active, or lean women.
That's why I started this thread.
0 -
Bump
0 -
When breast augmentation first cae out, they did it on top of the muscle, but that resulted in capsulation so they moved to under. Why is this not an issue anymore?
Mac, why didn't they repair your muscles?
Is there anyone in Utah who has prepec?
0 -
I am 8 weeks out from surgery. I had a skin/nipple sparing bilateral mastectomy. I thought I was going to have TE's when I woke up from surgery because I had radiation on my left breast 7 years ago. I was surprised to wake up to having my final implants already!!! My PS said he tested my blood flow in the left breast and said the the tissue looked great so he decided to put them in right away. I didn't even know he was debating this. I thought for sure I was not a candidate for this. My left breast DID look more red during healing especially around my lumpectomy scar and my nipple looked a little darker on the left. They both turned black and scabbed over then amazingly the scabs came off and now they look great, they even work!!! (no feeling in them though of course, but maybe someday!!) There is a tiny piece of scab on the left that I am waiting to fall off as I don't want to pick it. He put 790CC implants in.....for weeks I hated getting out of bed as they felt so heavy and cumbersome, and I just kept telling myself to be grateful and have patience. For the first few weeks I had a terrible burning sensation, like an internal sunburn....then lots of electrical zaps to my nipples!!! The burning DID go away thank goodness, but the zaps still come and go.
I used to have symmetrical breasts before my first cancer. After my lumpectomy my left side kinda got a nice "lift" which left me a little lopsided on the right. Not too much but enough that I noticed it. Now because of this my right nipple is a tiny bit off from my left...(My left breast looks amazing!! I am really pleased and surprised, I had so many nightmares of my skin and nipple dying)...I am assuming it is because I had more skin on the right side to suture and it pulled my nipple slight to the right. It isn't very noticeable and I shouldn't be so self critical after everything my body has been through. I do have a weird lump in my right armpit that they said they will remove at a later date, it was pretty painful for a while but has since shrank quite a bit. The right breast was kinda tricky I think as it was also the side where a lymph node was removed.
Over all I really love how they look and I am wearing all my same bras as before!! However they fit better!!!! It is kind of weird because I was/am a 34 DD and was actually looking forward to being smaller. My fiance says I do look smaller.....maybe I guess.....because I am perfectly round now and not overflowing out of my bra cups. It is funny to me when I take off my bra now.....I used to just drop out like.....thunk...gravity!! Now they just kinda stay there! Feels a little awkward. Laying down makes me laugh too as they are just kinda standing up like mountains.
I am so very grateful to have prepec implants, my BS and my amazing PS!!!!!! I started exercising 3 weeks ago and I feel great. Occasionally I forget that they are there.......for a few minutes anyway.....
At this moment I don't feel like I will require fat grafting, the only time you can really see rippling is if I am bending over without a bra on. I think I just want to be done for a while.
I am so sorry to hear about those of you in pain and frustration. You are in my thoughts!!!! My cousin's wife had a similar experience as me until her implants flipped on their sides, she said they looked like flying saucers, she eventually had them replaced with a DIEP surgery and is doing great!! She went to NOLA. She said her original PS just wasn't well versed in Prepec.....WHY did he do it then I wonder???????? I shared this concern pre-surgery with my PS and he didn't understand how that could happen. He said he stitches all they way around the implant attaching the alloderm to my chest wall. They really do feel like they are secure and not going anywhere. He hasn't required me to do any massaging or any other special treatment, just asks that I wear a bra 24/7 till I see him again in November.
Love to you all.
Druanne
0 -
They now can do prepectoral implants successfully because of the invention of acellular dermal matrix (ADM). Alloderm is one brand name.
0 -
Bird - here is an article about the evolution of pre pec reconstruction:
I was told that sub pec recon was preferred because it resulted in less rippling. But with the use of ADM and/or overfilled implants, they can minimize the rippling in pre pec implant patients now. I had no ADM and have minimal rippling. I'm getting radiation so we'll see how my recon holds up.
Question for laides who have had their implants for a while: do you ever not notice them? I get this weird sensation across my chest, mostly when lying down and/or not wearing a bra. Its like a mild tingling, and it radiates throughout my body. I miss going braless.
0 -
Thank you.
0 -
I don't notice my implants that much anymore. It's been almost 18 months. I've also regained a lot of sensation - still mostly on the outer edges and not at the nipples. They still feel kind of heavy when I get out of bed, but I think that's partly because the sensation is just not completely normal.
I wear a bra every day for support and shaping, but I was so glad to ditch wearing one at night by around 6-8 weeks post op. And I do still get the occasional zings or weird pressure feelings but much less these days.
For those of you that are early days - be patient. Things will most likely look and feel so much better over time. I was so emotional after my surgery and so upset with how things were - was contemplating a complete redo and wondering how I would manage that. I'm really glad that I didn't. I haven't had any further surgery and, while not perfect, I'm fairly pleased with the results.
0 -
Not very Brave,
I see we are both triple positive and you stopped taking tamoxifen. I hate tamoxifen, but I’m afraid to quit taking it. Why did you quit?
Bird0 -
Thank you NotTooBrave. I needed to hear this this morning. I'm 6 weeks out from surgery and although feeling better about things still am not entirely comfortable with the weight and feel of the implants. Strangely my prepectoral TEs became comfortable and pain free after about 10 weeks after mastectomies and fills.These implants with pocket revision and all feel much more awkward at this point. Thanks again for your pep talk.
0 -
Bird - I quit taking Tamoxifen for a few reasons. Probably the most concerning was my emotional and mental state. I was becoming increasingly depressed and I felt like I couldn't hold a thought in my head. It was hard to concentrate on work.
Probably the most disruptive thing was the relentless muscle cramps - every night, repeatedly through the night, in my legs and sometimes in my abdomen or neck. I tried everything - hydration, stretches, Calcium, Magnesium, tonic water, pickle juice, bar of soap under the sheet. It was ridiculous and the lack of sleep probably contributed to my outlook.
I also had a constant watery vaginal discharge which seemed welcome at first after being plunged into menopause but got to be a real pain. Pantyliners worn all the time irritated my skin and it was just uncomfortable being wet or glued to my underwear!
These things probably seem petty, but they became a huge deal. I felt like I had already been through so much and just wanted to feel like myself again - if possible. I also always thought that I'd revisit Tamoxifen one day, perhaps at a lower dose when the Herceptin was done. But then there was the ovarian cyst and the thickened endometrium ... It's just always something.
I worry about not being on something. They've been trying to determine if I'm actually in menopause (had what seemed like a period after 18 months and then none since). I worry about AI's with already having Osteopenia. I reassure myself with my pCR. That and just feeling so done.
So that's my long story in a somewhat abbreviated form. I'm pretty pro conventional treatment - it worked well for me. Just don't know that I can do 5-10 years of more possibly risky stuff.
0 -
Hi Bird-of-Light, I don't know why the PS didn't sew down my Pectoral muscle. Kind of a mystery actually. I asked the PS why not, he never gave a really satisfactory answer. Thank goodness it seems to have healed back to normal anyway.
I stopped tamoxifen because it was making me severely moody. I flew into rages, felt completely insane at times. I thought I was loosing my mind. I broke my Cell phone, my Kindle Tablet and my pressure cooker. The final straw was when I started yelling and made my younger daughter cry when she was just a little kid, around 7 or 8. I felt so guilty that I gave it up that day. Nothing is worth that kind of misery. I never felt safer anyway. Made me incontinent on top of everything. Now I use Vaginal Estriol Suppositories and Bioidentical Progesterone so that I can have a sex life and not pee on myself ( Sorry if TMI)
0 -
Dr. Matthew Sherrill, Mayo Clinic, LaCrosse, WI will be doing my (his preferred term) subcutaneous tissue expander and implant. We discussed direct to implant, but he said it was too experimental yet. Looking forward to having equal breasts. I had an incisional biopsy when I was 18, and my right has always been smaller. They can therefore freely borrow fatty tissue from my left to equalize and fill out the edges. The MRI really showed up how much difference in size there is.
0 -
Brave and MacThank you for sharing. I get the horribly painful cramps. I’ve been taking Niacin for those. My vagina is basically fried. I did five rounds of laser treatment, which brought back my orgasm, but after 6 months the pain is back full swing. I haven’t had a period since chemo Taxol (2 years) so I guess I’m in menopause. The Onco mentioned discussing an AI if my period doesn’t come back. I wonder if an AI is less brutal? What is a pCR?
0 -
pCR stands for Pathologic Complete Response. There was no cancer in any of the breast tissue or lymph nodes that were removed during surgery after chemo. It would appear that the chemo was highly successful - but there are no guarantees.
0 -
Bird-of-Light, I used to get these INSANE foot and leg cramps from the evil tamoxifen crap. Would wake me out of a sound sleep. My big toe would bend almost backwards, pointing towards my knee. I had to stand on my toe with my other foot for 5 or 10 minutes till it calmed down and the spasm stopped. The only thing that helped was having Magnesium Glycinate every day. There are several types of Magnesium ( Mg) out there. Mg Glycinate and Mg Bisglycinate, Mg Threonate are much more bioavailabe than Mg Citrate. Mg Oxide is 96% down the toilet.
0 -
I take both magG and Niacin.
0 -
MagG is Magnesium Gluconate, which could be less bioavailable then Mg Glycinate, Threonate
0 -
The most absorbable forms are magnesium citrate, glycinate taurate, or aspartate, although magnesium bound to Kreb cycle chelates (malate, succinate, fumarate) are also good. Avoid magnesium carbonate, sulfate, gluconate, and oxide. They are poorly absorbed (and the cheapest and most common forms found in supplements).May 20, 2010
Magnesium: Meet the Most Powerful Relaxation Mineral Available ...
Magnesium Citrate
This is one of the most common forms of Mg on the commercial market. This is Mg bonded to citric acid, which increases the rate of absorption. Citrate is a larger molecule than the simple oxygen of oxide, so there is less magnesium by weight than in the oxide form. This is the most commonly used form in laxative preparations.
Magnesium Glycinate and Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate
In this form, Mg is bonded to the amino acid glycine. Glycine is a large molecule so there is less magnesium by weight, but the glycine itself is a relaxing neurotransmitter and so enhances magnesium's natural relaxation properties. This could be the best form if you're using it for mental calm and relaxation. Magnesium amino acid chelate is usually bonded to a variety of amino acids, which are all larger molecules. In this form there is less magnesium by weight but the individual amino acids could all be beneficial for different things. Every formula is different so if you need both Mg and a particular amino acid, then this could be the way to go.
Magnesium Taurate
This is a less common form, and is typically taken for cardiac conditions and heart function in general. Magnesium helps the heart muscle relax, as well as the blood vessels that feed the heart to open and deliver more blood to the heart tissue itself. Taurine is an amino acid that is known to feed cardiac muscle and enhance the quality of contractions of the heart so if you're taking Mg for heart function this is probably the best form for you. Again, taurine is a larger molecule so there is a lower Mg by weight.
Magnesium Sulphate and Magnesium Chloride
These forms are both typically used topically, although there are some oral preparations as well. Mg sulphate is best known as Epsom salts. If you've taken this internally you know it tastes horrible and has a very strong laxative effect, but when used in a bath or soak it is extremely relaxing to the muscles and can ease aches and pains. Epsom salts baths can also help to lower high blood pressure and reduce stress levels. Magnesium chloride is more common in the lotion, gel and oil preparations that can be used topically for muscle cramps and relaxation.
Generally magnesium is one of those universally necessary elements that needs to be in your body for proper function, no matter what. Great dietary sources include coffee, tea, chocolate, spices, nuts and, of course, green vegetables with chlorophyll. Good body stores of magnesium will improve your health, mood and general functioning so finding the best kind of magnesium for you is tremendously important.
(Addendum, Friday, May 29, 2015)
Magnesium L-threonate A newer player on the magnesium front is magnesium threonate, or magnesium L-threonate. This form effectively crosses the blood brain barrier and so has recently been studied for uses such as patients with Alzheimer's disease and other forms of cognitive decline. A recent research study published in the medical journal Neuron showed that magnesiumthreonate creates improvement in learning abilities, working memory and both short and long term memory. Additionally it has the same benefits as any other magnesium including enhancing sleep quality.
0 -
0 -
Macb04, thanks for the information on Mg!
0 -
I have magnesium lysinate glycinate chelate
0 -
macb04, bird of light and not very brave,
It was interesting to read your experiences with Tamoxofen.
Like you, I'm having trouble with Tamoxofen and am considering what to do. I've been on it for a little over a year, been having "suspicious" thickening of my uterine lining and more blood to my uterus("hyperascularity"), plus ovarian cysts since about 6 months after starting, I've had 2 uterine biopsies so far, both negative and one scheduled again for November b/c I keep having periods and the ultrasound showed thickening lining. Although I have a history of depression, it hasn't caused a problem for me, (maybe becuae I'm on antidepressants). I haven't yet gone fully into menopuase, so I'm not sure my oncologist would consider switching me to AIs but I'm terrified of the joint pain and osteoporosis effects of AIs. AND my vagina is totally fried. It hurts so badly to have sex. I wish there was another alternative to Tamoxofen and AIs....
Related to the thread, I wanted to add to the list of PSs who do TE/Implant over Pectoral two PSs at Kaiser Northern California--Dr. Hornik in Oakland and Dr. Daniel Jacobs in San Jose. I have met with each of them to consider them for my revision to an over the pec (from my current under peccurrent implants which have horrible animation and rippling). Dr. Hornik does direct to implant (no TEs), and a friend of mine had him and loved him, but in my experience Dr Jacobs was more patient centered and listened more to what I wanted when I met with him. So I will probably go with him. Would love to hear if anyone here has had experience with either one, especially Dr Jacobs.
Thanks all, and happy halloween!
0 -
Minute, my onco prescribed vaginal estrogen pills and my onco gyno prescribed the cream for the outside. This helps, but I still have pain, struggle to orgasm and when I do it is 50% as intense, and my libido is down %75 from before. It sucks! I just learned of a cream called Julvia that I am going ask the gyno onco about. It has DHEA and other herbs and moisturizers in it. I know my male onco will say no. He said no to using estrogen both inside and out and said to choose one. Ridiculous! My onco gyno is a woman whom I trust.
0 -
Does anyone on this thread have pre-pec implants that are between 400-500 cc
0 -
Bird, I have low libido too, and I am not on ANY treatment. I only had surgery. For me its just not feeling sexy with no nipples, plus I am recovering from lumbar fusion and dealing with hip arthritis which is compromising my lumbar recovery. I hope those of us struggling with our sex lives can get back to ourselves because I agree, it sucks!!
I do have 440 cc smooth rounds, pre-pec. I just got my revision date (finally!!) Dec 4 they will be exchanged for smaller implants 300-350 range, followed with a few fg sessions to fill the difference. So basically I will be roughly the same size, perhaps a tad smaller, but with smaller, lighter implants and more of my own tissue.
0 -
Hi MinuteAtATime, I added those PS's you mentioned to the list. There are over 50 names on the list.
I have a 495cc Mentor Textured Anatomical Silicone Implant.
As I mentioned, I am also on Vaginal Estradiol and Oral Bioidentical Progesterone. I take the Progesterone every day. I feel I should mention that Bioidentical Progesterone is safe, completely so. It is ARTIFICIAL Progestins that cause cancer ( Provera being an example) Progesterone used to be given as a BC treatment before the advent of tamoxifen.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Progestins are chemical or drug imitations of progesterone. Provera (medroxyprogesterone acetate) is the most common progestin. Most are made by taking natural progesterone and altering the chemical structure so it can be patented. Another type of progestin is made by altering a synthetic form of testosterone.
Progestin - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Progesterone vs. synthetic progestins and the risk of breast cancer: a systematic review and meta-analysis
Noor Asi, Khaled Mohammed, [...], and Mohammad Hassan Murad
Additional article information
Abstract
Background
Use of menopausal hormonal therapy (MHT)-containing estrogen and a synthetic progestin is associated with an increased risk of breast cancer. It is unclear if progesterone in combination with estrogen carries a lower risk of breast cancer. Limited data suggest differences between progesterone and progestins on cardiovascular risk factors, including cholesterol and glucose metabolism. Whether this translates to differences in cardiovascular outcomes is uncertain. We conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis to synthesize the existing evidence about the effect of progesterone in comparison to synthetic progestins, each in combination with estrogens, on the risk of breast cancer and cardiovascular events.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4960754/
0 -
shoregirl, Your revision sounds like it’s going to be lovely! May I ask who your surgeon is?
0 -
I think I will start a post on Progesterone. Lots of people have the wrong idea, that ER/PR positive means that both estrogen and progesterone are cancer causing molecules. If that were true then puberty would cause us ALL rampant breast/uterine and ovarian c. Not true at all. I had exposure to ARTIFICIAL progestins in the birth control I used, like so very many of us.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Wouldn't let me add on to my last post, so here is another good article. They have stigmatized Progesterone unfarely, when in reality it was the ARTIFICIAL Progestins that were altered for PROFIT, that are the cancer causing molecules. Researchers were often sloppy, siting Progesterone, when they were actually talking about ARTIFICIAL progestins.
Progesterone has so many positive roles in our health, I have looked up some links to supporting research.
- Maintains the Uterine lining, reducing risks of Endometrial cancer. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13697137.2018.1472567
- Has a benign effect on Breast Cells, inhibiting Breast Cell Overgrowth https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22432812
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29962257
- Decreases Hot Flashes and Night Sweats https://www.endocrine.org/news-room/2018/oral-micronized-progesterone-may-decrease-perimenopausal-hot-flashes-night-sweats
- Increasing metabolism and promoting weight loss https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4245250/
- Balancing blood sugar levels
- Acting as a natural diuretic
- Normalizing blood clotting
- Stimulating the production of new bone https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22432813
- Promoting normal Sleep patterns https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/96/4/E614/2720877
- Enhancing the action of thyroid hormones
- Alleviating depression and reducing anxiety https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29322164
- Improving Libido
- Preventing cyclical migraine
- restoring proper cell oxygen levels
- Decreasing Female Pattern Hair Loss https://ndnr.com/womens-health/treating-female-pattern-hair-loss/
HEALTH NEWS
Study Suggests Progestin, Not Estrogen, Is the Real Cancer Culprit in Hormone Replacement Therapy
Written by Ann Pietrangelo on April 26, 2015
Hormone therapy that includes progestin plus estrogen may increase breast cancer risk, but estrogen alone may lower risk, according to long-term review.
A long-term review of two clinical trials has shed new light on menopausal hormone therapy and breast cancer risk over time.
In earlier clinical trials, combination hormone replacement therapy (HRT) consisting of progestin plus estrogen was linked to an increased risk of breast cancer and death from that disease.
Women who had a hysterectomy and took estrogen alone were found to have a reduced risk of breast cancer and breast cancer death.
Following those reports, use of both types of HRT declined.
Thirteen years later, researchers set out to determine both the short-term and long-term effects of HRT.
One analysis involved 16,608 women who had not had a hysterectomy. The women were assigned to receive estrogen plus progestin. Results showed this group was at increased risk of breast cancer while taking combination HRT. Within 2.75 years after stopping therapy, the risk was still present but not as high.
Another group of 10,739 women who previously had a hysterectomy were asked to take estrogen alone. This group had a reduced risk of breast cancer while receiving estrogen therapy. That lower risk continued for a few years after therapy ended. The benefit was lost after that.
The study authors concluded there is a "greater adverse influence for estrogen and progestin use and somewhat greater benefit for use of estrogen alone."
The research team was led by Rowan T. Chlebowski, M.D., Ph.D., of the Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center. Details were published in JAMA Oncology.
This research focused on breast cancer risk and did not involve other potential risks of HRT.
0 -
So interesting, I had the same experience, direct to implant , under pectoral muscle, HATED it, I love weight training, so weird to have muscle jumping up every time I use arms, chest etc. Radiation tightened up my implant, skin, so did Lat Flap recon. Implant under muscle! Yay😃Size, symmetry much better match for"good" side. When I work out chest, arms, shoulders, all back to normal. Working out back is fine , most movements, unless I raise arms overhead and pull down, then the lat muscle, now in front, animates. But much, much better, under pec muscle! Interesting articles, esp.by Dr. Chlebowski. He's the big shot at the hospital where I have all my treatments. I'll have to talk to my onco about Progesterone, I used it before my diagnosis, and felt great on it!
0
