How has the Pandemic affected you as a cancer patient/survivor
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Simone - I follow a few immunologists and haven't read that. I won't be looking for studies on reinfection rates for prior COVID patients in case you were waiting for it. At this point it makes no difference to me.
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Here is a CDC MMWR cites a study of natural infection vs. vaccine in kentucky during May to June, which covers a period of delta wave
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vacc...
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vacc...
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Chowdog, as devil's advocate, one question I have that arose from the Kentucky study you posted is, although reinfection was greater for natural immunity, what's the severity and duration of the illness? Could it be good enough to stave off serious illness? On the other hand, the study authors suggest that natural immunity does not provide good protection against variants, so while it may stave off current variants, who's to say it will be effective at reducing severity, duration, and hospitalization for any new variant, as opposed to the vaccine which does so far?
I lean towards those with natural immunity getting at least one shot for the hybrid protection, which is thought to be far superior to both vaccine or naturally acquired. At least, it would help to decrease spread by lessening the chances of another infection. Plus what are the associated health risks of catching Covid more than once? I've read some news articles suggesting some people suffer worse side effects and possibly long covid the second time around.
To be fair, I sympathize with the vaccine hesitant. We don't know if there are legitimate reasons for their hesitancy. Usually, it's someone with a negative previous vaccine experience, a person with a not so well understood autoimmune condition, or someone who is very sensitive to medical treatments. The ones I consider hesitant in my associations are very careful to follow mandates, even if it inconveniences them. I also find they are still open to discussion and seem to be on the fence still. There's a clear distinction between those people and the pro Covid Covidiots, maskholes, however we choose to describe them. Those people clearly don't give a damn about spreading the disease. There's no other singular words that encompass their actions. I don't think it's name calling at all to call a bully out on their actions with an all encompassing descriptive word or noun. Would it be more openly acceptible to call those people agressive abusers, or unempathetic narcissists? Is abuser or narcissist really kinder word than idiot? Come on -- It's all arguing over semantics at that point, with one side clearly proponents of being okay with risking their own lives as well as others.
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For many in the U.S., myself included, the debate over mask wearing was immediately politicized when the former president (fp) refused to wear one, refused to advocate wearing them, ridiculed people who wore them, trivialized Covid19, downplayed the severity of its spread, repeatedly referred to Covid19 as the Chinese flu. It was politicized and it didn't need to be. The actual virus itself was called a hoax by followers of the fp, with those in political power as well as those with large media presence spreading lies that Covid19 was made up by opponents of the fp. People I knew personally were telling me that all the coronavirus stuff and the pandemic were going to be over at the end of November 2020, meaning after the election. As the realities and ramifications of Covid19 grew rather than dissipated, many fp followers turned their twisted thinking from hoax-believing to you're-not-taking-my-rights-away non-vaxxers. Maybe they think they're freedom fighters. We personally know more people now who died of Covid19 since the vaccine has rolled out than prior to its availability.
There's lots of data and it's ever changing. I don't research it. But where is the data on people who died from getting the vaccine, not getting Covid19 after the vaccine but the vaccine itself? Of the women who got the vaccine while pregnant, what is the data of the babies delivered afterwards that were adversely affected in some way by the vaccine? Where is the data of women who became infertile because they got the vaccine? These are some of the reasons people and women of child-bearing age are choosing not to get the vaccine. I'm not sure there is data to back up their worries and concerns.
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Well Divine,
I also haven’t researched extensively but our Public Health Officer bluntly stated two days ago that it is physiologically impossible for the vaccines to cause infertility. She also stated that there is no evidence of risk to the child from the vaccine but considerable risk to mother/child from a Covid infection.
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How the pandemic has affected me:
I skipped my March 2020 annual checkup due to lockdown. Had I kept the appointment, maybe my recurrence would have been caught sooner. Instead, it was discovered in March 2021. My biopsy was the first time I was indoors with non-immediate-family members in a year. It was surreal.
All of my cancer doc appts have been in person; I live in a state that has handled things pretty well (Massachusetts). We had lots of restrictions prior to summer 2021; things loosened up in summer; now we're back to an indoor mask mandate. I'm double vaxxed, not sure if I will get a booster. RO and MO both say I'm not particularly immunocompromised and a third shot is up to me.
We were extremely conservative all the way up to summer 2021, but we did then take advantage of things opening up over the summer and had some fun. We traveled to see my parents in Nebraska (both fully vaxxed Fox News devotees) (go figure), and then took a week vacation in Maine last month.
Personally, I feel well protected being fully vaxxed and wearing a mask. Thanks to the mask mandate I'm never indoors with unmasked unvaxxed people. We've eaten at indoor restaurants almost not-at-all. Our public school district has been extremely responsible, and our kids have been able to be at school full time since October 2020. Masking, social distancing, hand washing, fresh air circulation, pooled testing, and contact tracing have prevented any in-school COVID transmissions from occurring.
I teach at the university level and we are back to on-campus classroom teaching. The university has vaccine, masking, and testing mandates and I am comfortable with these protocols.
I am eager for the vaccine to be approved for kids 5-12 so my kids can finally get vaxxed. I do understand we are taking some risks of exposing our kids, but on balance we've weighed out the risks and are comfortable with the level of risk we are currently taking.
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FB anti-vaxxers pushing members to avoid the hospitals? 🤔 OK!
Not OK. We just got hydrogen peroxide in the large bottles again. Don't want another shortage.
"Almost all pregnant moms in this situation lose their babies"
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Always, in that cdc study, one of the concerns about natural immunity is the duration. They didn’t go deep about the outcome of those got reinforced. There are might be ongoing studies about that but as you know cdc is slow at releasing data. I did read one news story someone got reinfected for the 3rd time (this time with delta) and ended up on vent. I can’t find the link though.
As for those who had covid receiving 1 dose instead of 2, cdc currently recommends those had covid to get both doses. I suspect one of reasons is operational. I assume those who had covid will provide proof, so here is an extrastep for these people and vaccine administrator to take.
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It does seem easier to get 2 doses than provide proof of infection first. Definitely an issue for travel.
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Pregnant women and women trying to conceive who are refusing the COVID vaccine are buying into the same misinformation problems that other covid anti vaxxers are being sucked into. The fact is all major health authorities and national societies of obstetricians and gynecologists have put out statements saying these vaccines are safe for women intending to be pregnant, and for pregnant and breastfeeding women. They wouldn't be recommending these vaccines if they were not considered to be generally safe.
- ACOG recommends that pregnant individuals be vaccinated against COVID-19.
- Claims linking COVID-19 vaccines to infertility are unfounded and have no scientific evidence supporting them. ACOG recommends vaccination for all eligible people who may consider future pregnancy.
I think the reality is people have a difficult time with risk assessment and that for some some rare theoretical risk becomes almost an obsessive fear. When authorities say that a vaccine is safe that doesn't mean it is 100% safe there will be some people who might have adverse effects. It means it is considered generally safe and the benefits are outweighing any potential risk but there haven't been very many studies to show any potential risk for pregnant or breastfeeding women. And the mechanisms for fertility and the mRNA vaccine are completely unconnected. I suspect it is poorly educated people who are getting confused with RNA and DNA and knowing that these things are somehow important and then conflating that into oh it's changing my genes, it's gonna affect my baby.I'm honestly worried about a larger sort of issue with the erosion of trust in governments, in institutions, in large scientific organisations and something that the author Tom Nichols calls "the death of expertise". It is hard to see how society and civilization continues if we have a large enough sector of people who have zero interest in accepting & pooling knowledge and using that knowledge for similar purpose & goals.0 -
Wow, nebulizing over the counter hydrogen peroxide!!! Just why would anyone trust that?
In other news, our state (with one of the highest vaccination rates) has not been able to get the full 1600 doses of monoclonal antibodies a week that they have been requesting. It's particularly important because patients need to be given infusions within the 3 to 10 day window after a positive test, and before symptoms become severe.
Guess who is using up most of the treatment, prompting the administration to create a centralized distribution? Seven states - "Alabama, Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia, and Louisiana." So even if other states like ours are taking many measures to prevent transmission and keep our hopitals from being overrun, our citizens aren't getting the treatments we need because the states with governments that are refusing mandates are hogging them. They are selfish through and through. A recent Q and A with one of the state physicians even said that the shortage caused some people last week to miss out on that valuable treatment due to timing.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/monoclonal-antibodies-covid-19-treatment-florida-texas-states/
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also to add, those hardcore antivax who prefer natural infection over vaccine will probablyscream hipaa if they have to prove their prior infection.
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Psst, I've got this venom extractor kit. Just take your 2 shots, and then use the kit to get the poison out. Foolproof! That'll be $35.
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A little sarcasm here, but it would be interesting if that venom kit gains some traction. I'm willing to bet some will even go for the ten dollar kits used for bug bites. Hey, if they think it will work on an intramuscular injection, but are actually getting the full dose, then all the better.
I hope the Ivermectin crowd doesn't get news of this - snake venom found to be effective against Covid in monkeys.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharma...
Or effective on human samples
https://news.arizona.edu/story/venom-coursing-thro...
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When I first saw the headline about snake venom and COVID, I thought those snake-handling churches are going to get new members and then start losing members.
Crazy runs deep.
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While strolling the Virginia Beach boardwalk a couple weeks ago, I saw a fellow on a bicycle pulling a little cart filled with boxes that said Ivermectin on them. Yeah, just what I'm a gonna put my faith in, beach bum placeboes. Really sounds appealing.
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SerentySTAT, yup I can see that happening. Interesting article that they may have a clue forbetter treatment.
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People may buy snakes and wonder why their new boa constrictor doesn't have any venom. 🤔
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The pandemic has affected the way I interact with people. I am always guarded at the outset these day when a conversation begins. I listen for the subtle and not-so-subtle cues that indicate if a person is anti vax, anti mask. Whereas before I was always tolerant of the behaviour of others, that's no longer the case. Some of that is on me, because I've been conditioned to default to the "be nice" mode my whole life. But I've finally drawn a line in the sand, allowed myself to place importance on boundaries. I don’t get confrontational, I simply decide to not engage in conversation with them any more than I have to. I can pick up when an antimaskerandvaxxer figures out I follow the science. It's like I can sense the fur standing up on their back and watch as an evil glint appears in their eyes. It's a look I remember seeing in 1970s made-for-tv movies on the faces of the townspeople carrying large clubs on fire going after women they accused of being witches in the 1600s. I'm not interested in listening to people who want to go on endlessly about masks and vaccines. Those conversations go nowhere. As the saying goes, be aware of what's really worth your energy.
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I love the Wonkette's spin on the hospital "escapees." As with most of their stories, they stick with the facts and provide a link to a regular news source, but inject some wonderful snark.
https://www.wonkette.com/anti-vaxxers-fast-becoming-anti-icu-ers
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I did something incredibly out of character today. There was an anti-vax demonstration outside of the San Jose City Hall today. Not a single one I saw was wearing a mask. Iwas driving by on my morning errands and I flipped them off as I slowly drove by. It didn’t feel 100% great to do that but on the other hand, I didn’t feel as bad as I thought I would. I’m just as frustrated as most of you are.
ICU refusal, leaving the hospital AMA? Fine let them go though it is upsetting to think they may continue infecting others.
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exbrnxgrl, I find it hard to refrain from flipping them off. It's become an almost automatic reaction.
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Exbrnxgl, I might have done the same without regrets.
While I’m ultimately against mandates in most situations, I find it disturbing and unacceptable that people put so much effort into trying to force their beliefs on others. It’s a real shame the way some people are behaving.
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In theory I am against mandates. I always hope people will think of others and do the right thing. The truth is that people don’t always do the right thing and that is why mandates are sometimes necessary. I wish they weren’t but they are.
The demonstration was not large at all, possibly less than 100 people. It did comfort me to know that these folks are a small minority in my county.
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As a former ED and prehospital nurse, I've seen plenty of approaches to snakebite treatment. The vacuum extractor is a complete bust. No better than the really old-fashioned approach of cutting incisions and sucking out the venom.
https://www.snakebitefoundation.org/blog/2019/1/20...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14747805/
https://litfl.com/venom-extraction-kits-seriously-...
Seriously, how could a thinking individual possibly believe venom (you can substitute "vaccine" almost throughout the articles) could be sucked out after it's been injected at least an inch deep into a muscle? Once it's in, it's in. No amount of suction applied to the skin will remove even a drop of it.
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Based on the time of the day & the fact that I've just consumed a lovely gin & tonic - wrenn's comment makes me want to cry. Oh, I do agree - but how very sad....
Maybe I should start smoking again & go to "their" protest and blow smoke in their faces? How juvenile is that?
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wrenn - 👍 Mandates are getting the stragglers on the far left of the Bell Curve.
sbelizabeth - Ah, but they aren't thinking, so easily conned.
Minus - G&T yum.
I read there are new outbreaks in a local hospital and a retirement home. The vaccine mandates will help prevent those. They're necessary.
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minustwo,
Another gin and tonic fan! ruthbru and I enjoyed one together in person several years ago. Every now and then we raise a virtual glass too! Enjoy it
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MinusTwo. Rather than providing questions, I was going to summarise the sentiments and posts here. Any quotes will be attributed to forum names. Nothing would be published before approvals for any quotes are obtained.
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I don't know about anyone else, but it works for me, Traveltext. Please make sure to post a link so we can read your article. They're always informative and well written.
Trish
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