Taxotere, Carboplatin and Herceptin
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Lisa my white counts were normal the entire time but I have seen several women on bc.org that did have infusions due to low white counts. They said it was like crack. They almost instantly felt better, got their energy back.
But of course that doesn't mean your immune system hasn't been weakened by chemo. I don't think I mentioned on this thread that I got shingles this Saturday. My PT says she noticed a several of her breast cancer patients that went through chemo got shingles. Most people probably don't get it though but I keep being one of those chosen people to get the less common things. So to answer your question How is everyone, in my case just a bit annoyed, tired sore and stiff again from the damn shingles. Hopefully the meds will kick in and it will start to get better tomorrow.
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Things they don't tell you about Taxotere. It can cause Taxo"tears". Causes an inflammation/scarring in the tear duct. How do you treat it I ask? Steroid eyedrops for the duration of treatment. Great, now I have to worry about dry eyes!! This SE appeared after #4.
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Sewingnut-I had taxo 'tears' after TCH3- not now? Not sure why? Also think I might have had sinus infection a month or so ago. I was put on antibiotic for low WBC/counts then- and think that might have cleared it up. My eyes were running/matted- and my nose was stopped up and then drained for a few weeks. Annoying for sure. Not so much now at all.
Lago- so sorry about your shingles. That sounds painful. I too know the tough insult our systems have taken w/ chemo. Have to do it, but it's tough all the body systems it impacts.
Tomorrow is lab draw draw for one week post and Hercepting infusion. I used to never be nervous at the 1 wk visit- now I am scared about all the labs. Nothing I can do.
I am eating better this cycle healthy food too- the mouth seems a bit better though sore. If I have hit the low on this cycle, I'll be ok. Hoping I am on the mend. And hoping all of you my cyberbuddies who I appreciate more than you could ever realize- are having a great day!
Lisa
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I have had only 2 TCH and am lucky to have very few problems. The worst seem to start at Day 6 or 7-which seems even more wierd to me. I am afraid to even mention it because it might jinx me. I get bloody D for a couple of days that nothing seems to stop. Some fatigue which passes if I sit down and rest for 15-20 minutes. And heartburn which Pepcid for a couple of days fixes right up. No mouth sores, dry or wet eyes, puking---but I know that can change. I have 4 more TCH coming down the road. Nothing like what everyone else has been talking about. Glad and blessed to be one of the lucky ones
. New onc is a big believer in blood counts. The other place checked my blood twice in 5 weeks of treatment-no mention of ever trying Neulasta or anything else. I went on Vac last week against new oncs wishes-hated to be non-compliant in my first week with them but i felt fine. They gave me a box of masks, sanitizer, told me to take my temp twice a day, avoid old people and kids, don't eat any fruits and veggies I hadn't washed myself...I was overwhelmed-other place could have cared less. I did none of the above and got bloodwork done yesterday. trending up but still way too low. 2 weeks til my next TCH so I have time to recover. They do Neupagen instead of Neulasta-they like it better because patients tolerate it better. Place is very close so no problem going for multiple ijections.
Maybe some new TCH gal will read this and remember this crap is so individual. poison for one person may not bother someone else.
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Hi Ladies, Just wondering how many of you took Decadron? I am wondering is it possible to do TX without it, the SE are driving me nuts.
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nmoss - the dex was rough for me too, especially gut problems - ugh!!! I think they give it primarily for the taxotere to prevent fluid accumulation. From what I have read tax can irritate the small blood vessels and cause them to leak, hence swelling. For me it was my forearms mostly. The dex helps prevent or limit that side effect. What is your main problem on the dex?0
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Nmoss,
I took it for 3 days, as well as getting a bag of another type of steroid before my Tx.
I've read here some Oncs will let you cut a day off (if you're on the 3 day schedule)...my Onc refused. However, after TX #5 I was really busy and forgot the second dose the 2nd day, and the entire 3rd day.
All my SE came faster, and harder. I hate to say it. But for me, it was horrible. It was by far the worst TX for me. And the only thing different was the Decadron (forgetting it). Also by #5 I stopped complaining about how hungry they made me because they really helped my legs feel better....
Hope that helps.
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I've only done one round of Decadron (3 days worth of pills plus what they've put in my IV) but I didn't mind the SEs - I talked a lot and my mind raced a bit, killed my appetite, not increased it. That was about it.
Tomorrow is my Herceptin only day. I've lost 6.5 pounds in 6 days, I hope the Herceptin only day is easier than the TCH day was!
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Carly, I didn't get the steroid hunger until about 10 days after #3...then every TX about a week out....I didn't gain any weight though because I really monitored caloric intake.
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I take extra steroids- and agree- the day I end up off of them- very sore all over.
And yes- lilylady you are so right- SE are so variable to the person- and to the cycle even. The purpose of this is for support and friendship- we are all here to help each other through.
Asking about them and talking about them here is a support network not available elsewhere.One thing I did this time (w/ blessing of my MO) was change from pepcid to omeprazole over the counter- my heartburn is much better.
Last thing for me to help this cycle though the fatigue is much worse- I bought some of the disposable toothbrush things- the 'wisps' and use them clean the tongue and rinse w/ baking soda/salt warm water. My mouth is not as bad this time.
Not sure if a coincidence- just happy not to hurt. And glad for chemo- I wanted to go through this and have no regrets. Feeling the fatigue increase w/ each tx makes this group even more special to me. I do feel that this group helps in so many ways to ask and reach out- I for one am thankful- have tried so much that folks have suggested- and it helps. And when it doesn't knowing that you all know how it feels.
I have gained weight though- not alot- probably between 5 to 8 pounds approximately. Not from eating!
Lisa
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New place gave me prescription for the decadron-1 day prior, some in the bag and 2 days after. I have had 2 TCH without it. I was wondering what it was for? It didn't come up in my only visit with him. NP called to make sure I had a supply of all meds nausea stuuf, steroids ect. When i told her I had taken no roids she was shocked. Whatever it is supposed to do or not do I haven't missed it. Have had weight swings up to 15 lbs in a week but old place said no problem. haven't figured out where the weight is because my ankles and wrists don't look swollen. I have kind of a moon face but surely my head isn't 15 lbs?
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Lily,
I kept the fluid in my thighs...I've NEVER had thighs.....skinny legs my whole life....I'm 5 weeks out today and my thighs still hurt....
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My biggest disappointment in BC was I thought I would finally lose that 20lbs I have been packing for 2 years-only to find out i would gain another 15. Eating 1/4 of what I used to, no soda (used to drink 6 a day), no sweets, lots of water-all these things that should have lost me weight before BC. I know now is not the time to worry about losing weight but seems like there should be some little reward somewhere-especially as I have cleaned up my diet so much.
Since nothing really tatses right anyway may as well eat healthy.
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Lol Lily,
That's pretty much how I felt about eating healthy. Why waste the really good treats on a numb tongue?
I can tell you this though. The weight fluctuation will stop after TX...so you should fall to your lowest weight...if you don't have a lot of fluid retention.
I fell to my lowest weight and I still have some fluid build up...(worse when I eat sweets)...
If you persevere and continue with healthy eating (AND EXERCISE!!) you will see the scale drop after TX.
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(((Hugs Lisa!)))) I am also very grateful to be able to come here and talk with everyone, It would have all been so so so much harder without this support and camaraderie!0
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Treatment #3 tomorrow-so happy to be at the 50% mark !! Hope everyone is doing great this week !
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Thanks ladies , it's the horrible crash that gets me. The crash is beyond sleeping, the irritability end unlevel thinking. Also, I find 10-15 days after TX the crazy hunger sets in. Ton Lee when you say you fell To your lowest weight you mean after your last TX? I have put on 8 lbs since Feb and really not eating that much. I am walking 1-2 miles a day plus yoga 2 x per week. I have no
Idea what else to do.I am guessing the roids are the lesser Of the 2 evils??0 -
nmoss I took Decadron throught my treatment. It really helped with fluid retention. As soon as I went off it I put on 5-8lbs. I never had any issues with it.0
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nmoss - I think it's hard to 'stay in shape' during chemotherapy. With fluid retention, eating while copiing with SEs, and lack of exercise plus all the medications it's just hard. I would suggest to give yourself a pass and just cope as best you can. When you are done you can lose the weight if you need to lose any and get back in shape.0
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NMoss,
My weight fluctuated like crazy while on treatment by as much as 15 pounds.
When TX was over, it took about 3-4 weeks before it settled, and when it did, it settled on my lowest weight between #2 and #6...so yes, keep eating well, and exercising...trust that it will benefit you when finished. DON'T STOP!
Just as an aside. Chemo ages/uses up to 10 years worth of muscle (and bone) in 6 TX. If you aren't doing some sort of weight bearing exercise (and more than 10-15 pounds) then you are losing muscle every day...and that means you are not burning as many calories, and THAT means, you will be gaining fat. That fat will be harder to get off when done because of lower muscle mass and chemopause.
Yoga is good so long as you are using your entire body weight in isolated moves...More so and even better (if you can't hit the gym) pushups, tricep dips, jump squats, etc...will keep you strong.
Also, if you aren't getting adequate amounts of protein, your body will take it from your muscles. I met with a nutritionist and discovered I need 60-80 grams (I weigh 117 pounds) of protein a day to keep my body from eating my muscle to heal...and 30-35 calories per kg to maintain my current weight....so about 1600-1800 calories a day.
I upped my protein to 100 and it really made a difference. (Lots of f/f cottage cheese and Greek yogurt.)
The way I dealt with the hunger....I ate all the time...I kept a big container of "bean soup" in the frig, or white chili made with turkey breast....and I literally ate something every two hours (1 cup of chili, or 1 cup of beans, or salad, or yogurt, whatever, even when I wasn't hungry). Most days I went for whatever was "easy" so that meant, all the food I prepared ahead of time in the fridge was what I grabbed first.
I also chewed lots of gum, and sugar free hard candy (on the gross tongue days).
My biggest saving grace was drinking lots of tea ...I brewed it, cooled it, added almond extract and stevia or splenda, sometimes I added fruit like grapes, apples, oranges, lemons, etc... and kept a huge glass and straw filled and beside me all the time. Lots of times I could fend off hunger by drinking...
I tracked my calories at fitday.com (free site) and made sure I didn't go over..
Hope that helps!
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Day 16 since TCH 1 and Day 2 of my hair coming out in handfuls. I'm guessing I will be cutting/shaving it before the day is over. Aside from the inevitable loss of hair, I've been very fortunate to have had very few side effects from the first treatment, and those I did have were very minor. Was feeling relatively normal until the hair started..... kinda drives home the reality of the situation. Hoping my second treatment next Tues. is as uneventful. I've seen several mentions of taking Claritin to help ward off SE from the day-after shot - does it make a difference if it's the pseudoephedrine kind you have to get from the pharmacist or the over-the-counter kind? Thank you all for your comments - they've been very helpful!
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nmoss~ I had problems with dread-a-dron (decadron) also. I would go into withdrawl when I would come off of them. I couldn't breath, hurt and my face would break out like crazy. I cut them back on the last treatment and it was like night and day.
My oncologist said that we could stop whenever I wanted to but he wanted me to get 6 treatments in. At the time I wanted to stop at 4 treatments of TCH but I couldn't find any reasearch on it
. So I proceeded in misery but now almost 2 years later I am glad that I completed the course. 0 -
TonLee - My muscle mass didn't change much during chemo oddly enough. I exercised as best I could, which toward the end was kindof sad. I have one of those high tech scales that tell you % body fat and all (my friend instructed me to get one, lol) and my numbers didn't change. I also ate A LOT of protein and I think that made a huge difference. Lymphedema in my arm has affected my ability to do the weights and I can see that I have lost muscle mass in that arm unfortunately. I wasn't trying to suggest letting thing 'go' during chemo but to lighten up on expectations and to just do as best you can.0
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I've been getting Decadron in the infusion as well as oral decadron on day 2/3 of each cycle. I don't know what would be happening without it but my weight fluctuates as much as 8-10 pounds and I'm not eating anywhere near what I normally eat because Taxotere is wrecking my GI tract. I think the decadron must be helping with overall swelling or I would be even worse. I'm on TCH #4 and it has been the absolute worse so far! My SEs are the same but are more intense this time. I always get D/cramping from day 6-9 to the point that I cannot eat any solid food at all which only compounds the fatigue/weakness. This time the cramping has been so bad that it made me vomit for the first time. The MO has no suggestions except to let it run its course and stay on a liquid diet for those 4 days...Not surprisingly this also coincides with the time when I am very emotional and feel like I can't do this anymore. On day 10 when I can eat real food again I begin to rebound and my outlook brightens as well. I will certainly be glad when this is over because I feel like my nutrition has suffered terribly and exercise has been almost impossible. The fact that I'm working is a miracle...
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I am right there w/ you Dragonfly. This round #4 TCH has been a bear. Yesterday I was feeling better and thought I was on the upswing. Last night the GI stuff hit again. I didn't vomit- but came as close as I ever have to in along this journey. I keep asking for help on how to manage my big C that goes to big D then usually back again once more- and seem to not get a regimen. So I try to use the meds they have talked about- but the swings from the GI keep happening.
I get down too- I do know though we are so close to coming back up and out of this round- We know it from times past. For me the weakness is tough more this time too. Who would think climbing stairs in your house you've had for years several times a day would make your legs feel on fire.
Great news is to me the actual physical pain is less with later rounds- weakness/fatigue more but pain less. The headache that I got round 1 has not reoccurred like that. Rarely I'll get a headache during it- but not the 6 day one w/ round 1.
I go back this afternoon for the weekly herceptin and counts. I am just resting again right now- the emotions are hard- the physical toll cumulative doesn't help that. We are warriors- and we are battling! We will prevail!
I don't think I could exercise much if I had to- I do walk around as much as I can. I look forward to starting an exercise and nutrition plan after this is over. I have free access to cancer wellness programs through my hospital (and my organization offers this to those living in the atlanta area too- through Piedmont Healthcare- great free programs for cancer survivors).
I too am having another one of those days... it will pass.
Lisa
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Lisa,
If it is any comfort, during TX many of the women at the cancer center and here said for whatever reason #4 was the worst for them...with 5 & 6 not being near as bad.
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Hey Dragonfly1 - I hear 'ya about taxotere trashing the GI tract! I didn't start with a perfectly normal GI tract and I now fear that there could be permanent damage by the time I'm done. My fingers are crossed that it's all temporary. I only managed to avoid saline IVs again after chemo #2 because the taxotere was cut to 80%. I still needed a day of clear fluids and then several of BRAT along with the lomotil etc. to keep the big D almost under control. I also hit a point around day 6 or 7 where I think anyone would have to be insane to do this again. I'm so grateful that this is a 3 week cycle because I get almost 2 weeks of something close to normal before the next round of SEs kick in. That's when I believe that I have what it takes to go back for more.
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nmoss - I did my first 3 TCH with steroid - only in the drip day of tx. On this last tx#4 they added the before, during and after steroid because I developed a body rash at the same time as #3, which I am convinced was an antibiotic reaction. I tried to talk them out of the steroids because I had done fine without them but they insisted and also indicated the possibility of having to start a different regimen if I got another rash. So this tx included them. I found that they initially made the SE I had been getting less severe, like on days 2-4. I didn't have nausea or the Big D and felt OK. I was in for a big surprise because all those SE were apparently hiding and gathering strength because they hit like crazy and I have been bad since. My appetite is not usually affected in terms of increase - I am not really hungry and am hesitant to put fuel into a system so compromised already. Trying to stay hydrated but really not feeling very well. So the upshot is - oncs will do tx without supplementary steroids. Unless you get a rash.
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Hi ladies - I just wanted to clarify a point on an earlier post regarding transfusion, because I don't want people to get nervous about low white counts. You will not be transfused due to a low white count. A blood transfusion does not contain white cells - they have been filtered out to minimize the possibility of an immune system response which would be undesirable in a chemotherapy patient. You will be transfused with red cells only to boost your RBC count and hemoglobin which is responsible for oxygenating your blood. Those two counts are the numbers on your CBC, along with symptoms of anemia (weakness and dizziness), which would drive a blood transfusion. Your white count is boosted by the Neulasta (or Neupogen) injection. Additionally, you will also see a platelet count on your CBC. If that falls past a certain point you may be transfused with platelets, which do not contain red cells. Platelets help with clotting and assist the body in healing. You may notice at certain points in chemo you get a bloody nose - this is due to compromised platelets.
If any of your counts are too low - white cells, red cells or platelets - your chemo may be postponed until the situation can be remedied by transfusion or injection.
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Great info Special K. My counts are low but hanging on. YEAH! Got IV fluids w/ my Herceptin today- that helps so much!
Hoping on the upswing now- tomorrow will be 9 days out! Gonna rest up for Round 5. I talked to the nurse/staff about the GI stuff- it's true as yall have said. Taxotere is tough on it. I did find the new med for heartburn I changed to has greatly helped that part. If the Big C and Big D would just lighten up already??!!!
Feeling hopeful again. Thanks for the support.
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