Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Too bad the space program hasn't progressed to the level of Star Trek. I would love to have a Klingon burial. Put the body in a bag and chuck it out into space. I never understood funerals. I know they are supposed to be for the living, but I consider them to be primitive rituals and a waste of money. One could take the thousands spent on a funeral and donate it to the local Hospice where it will do the dying some good.
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Frightening amount of money too notself. You see that sometimes, funds can be contributed to ... for helping the family with burial expenses. I always think how sad it is that funerals cost so much that you would need to do that.
The only good memories I have of funerals are my family and I sitting around afterwards telling good, and often funny, stories about times we had with who had died. I really dont' want a traditional funeral. I want a party with an open bar and a smattering of pictures around the room and would hope that there would be some good stories to tell. Some laughs to have. Maybe silence a couple of times while a song that matters to me comes across the stereo that is playing.
I'll be like the Fleetwood Mac song "I will follow you down until the sound of my voice will haunt you..." I've already warned DH of this, he'll never be rid of me
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Maria, welcome to our group. I am sure you are scared at the moment of the treatment path you will be taking. I wish you well. I think the idea of just taking it one step at a time is the best way to walk it. You know there are many of us to hold your hand on the way. I am a ten year survivor and send you hugs...
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Maria Malta,
I used to be just Sunflowers when I signed on about 5 years ago, then my computer crashed last winter and I couldn't remember my password to get back on - so I became Caerus ( one of my favorite of teh Gods/Goddesses) and realized none of my cyber bc friends knew who I was, so found out I could "change" my name and combined them
If my middle name began with R. - then I could be CRS ( can't remember stuff: cleaned it up a bit) which I still have as a SE of being 66 and all those bc treaments.Are you really in Malta? Oh, all that lovely sea around you....
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Maria-Malta
I read your posts today and noted you were from Malta, I then read somewhere that Angelina Jolie was/had been in Malta and then this evening, my husband came home from kayaking in and around the Port of Albany bragging that he had seen a freighter flying the Maltese flag, the ship is the Onego Sirocco out of Vallet. He sent me a photo, but I can't figure out how to post it.
Malta on my mind, today at least! welcome!
Julie E
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Hello again C Sunflowers, Lisa and Julie, Very nice to hear from you. I know, passwords are the pits... and for that reason I almost always use the same one, which my kids say is a security risk, but then, when I do introduce a new one, I promptly forget which password I need to use for which particular organisation/group!
I've had a pretty rough week after having had my 1st experience wih Taxotere on Friday 10th June (after a previous 4 sessions of FEC). For first 3 days I felt really OK, obviously as a result of the 3 days of steroids, but then on Sunday night I felt a hundred years old, with aching knees and feet.. things stayed more or less the same for the entire week, flu like symptoms, aching joints and muscles, uncomfortable tummy, and most of all extreme exhaustion.. today much better, but I must say I'm dreading the next assault on July 1st. (I'm scheduled to have another 3 Taxotere sessions in all). Any of you ladies have had experience of Taxotere?
How funny that you came across 3 Malta references in one day Julie! But that's often the case isn't it? You hear a new word, or a new person or place, and then you keep coming across references to it. Yes, Angelina Jolie is in Malta with her family as Brad Pitt is here filming at the moment.. I'm pretty sure I knew the name of the film, but chemo brain has put paid to my memory even more than the menopause, so I'm afraid I can't remember!
Yes, the sea is beautiful here, and we are very lucky with the weather..we swim in the sea for about seven months of the year, which I really enjoy. It's a REALLY TINY island and coming from such huge countries you probably can't imagine how somewhere as small as this can be an independent country. As a result of its size Malta is also very densely populated, but luckily we can still find a few areas where we can 'get away' from crowds.
Nice to speak to you all!
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This is for Maria..
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Maria, I'm sorry. I try not to tell people my experience on taxotere. My Onc asked me not to once said I'd scare anyone off of ever having it. She claimed at the time I was in a small percentage who had a rough time, since then, they tell me that as it is used more and more more and more centers are reporting how hard it is to get patients through it. Some sail though, some have a really rough time. There was a recent presentation at ASCO, someone thinks they have found the genetic marker for those who will have neuropathy on taxanes. Some of us just metabolize it differently and have more trouble on it. I'd seriously talk to your Onc about thinking of going to smaller doses of something weekly rather than taking the taxotere hit every 3 weeks (the reason they do 4 cycles, as compared to weekly 12 taxol is they end up equivalent in the end), because I can tell you that it only got worse with each cycle. You may have seen my vent about permanent neuropathy thread, Its been over 2 years, none of my docs are pretending the myopathy and neuropathy will resolve, we're just hoping to take the pain away and we are making progress with that.
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SoCalLisa, my blood pressure dropped 10 points just from looking at that picture.
Maria, I had 4 rounds of Taxotere & Cytoxan 3 years ago, and I'm okay. Each round was tough but do-able, and I was lucky to not have any long-term complications (that I know of). My med onco warned me that the short-term SE's from T/C were likely to be rough, and they were. The reason why I chose (we chose) T/C was because there was less risk of long-term heart problems than there would have been with Adriamycin/Cytoxan. Those were the two options we discussed. Check the "Chemotherapy" forum for up-to-date stories.
Some day I want to talk about the "funeral" (memorial service) we had for my mom in March.... but not today. It's hard to describe how I felt.
otter
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((( Otter )))
Maria .. welcome! I can't help with the SE's of chemo, as I only had surgery and radiation treatment. Your island sounds lovely and swimming in the sea sounds wonderful. I hope you have an easy go of it with your treatment and that the chemo is kind to you.
hugs,
Bren
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So Maria, I think its great to get a different view, so thanks Otter. Otter's experience was more in line with many who did TC when I did. I just remember feeling so frustrated and isolated as I tried to describe how sick and miserable I was and everyone kept telling me it was hard but doable and I kept thinking, no its not they're really hurting me. And it really was, and permanently did. My Onc has since apoligized for not picking up on it well enough. So, I just wanted to tell you, I really understand and remember that worst flu of your life feeling. Hopefully you'll be Otter and do fine. Just don't be afraid like I was to be more forceful in sticking up for yourself if your situation ends up more like mine.
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kmmd,
My husband's doctor got neuropathy from Chemo and he has neuropathy from Agent Orange. His doctor recommended alpha lipoic acid 1200mg/day. It has been about a month now and my husband says his neuropathy is improving. Here is a link from PubMed that you can print and show to your doctor. You can get alpha llipoic acid at any health food store.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20043035http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20043035
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Thankyou SoCalLisa for beautiful photo, and all the rest for your comments... Yes, I know from having read other threads, Kmmd, that Taxotere can be a real nightmare, so I really appreciate your honesty... today I'm feeling MUCH better and appear to be on the road to recovery, but, as I said earlier have no idea what the next one will be like..It's so difficult as of course I want to have the very best chances to avoid recurrance, and this drug, at 3-weekly intervals seems to be used very often for the kind of tumour I have (TN).. It really is a case of being stuck between a rock and a hard place... I think I'll have to see how I am over the next ten days, and whether I get back to feeling normal during this time or whether pain returns.. will keep you posted..
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please do, and thanks for the link
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I havent' visited this thread in quite some time. It's been one of my favorites over the years mainly because it's so ... civilized. Every several pages a dustup might try to start, but they never seem to gain momentum. ...not like so many threads that go on for page after page, each new page getting uglier and uglier.
Then I reflect back on the all the words I ever remember Konakat posting. She posted on this thread, in the stage iv section, all over the place. I remember her being graciously friendly with everyone she met. I know from her posts here that she didn't believe in heaven. Oh, how I wish I could know who has it right. Is there, isn't there?
I think of Elizabeth as being in heaven right now. I imagine her cuddling with her cats Ursula and Chloe, pausing to choose from a table filled with chocolate, cake and ice cream. I imagine her thinking, wow, this is a really awesome place. I imagine her wishing she could tell all of us what it's like for her now.
I'm just projecting of course. I think it's common for us to decide what it will be like, and then believe it will be the same for everyone else also. For me, I want better stories to choose from. I think all the religions are man's attempt to explain that which is beyond description. As such, all attempts are flawed, based on our human experience, and surely there must be more.... To observe plants, animals, our own bodies and see how wondrously made we are. Well, to my mind, there must be something... Answers I find in biblical texts are sorely lacking for me.
In the meantime, this thread at this time just seems like a place for me to share what I think heaven will be. I imagine it to be a place where I can learn the truthful answer to every question I've ever had in this lifetime and the next.
I wonder what Elizabeth would have to say right now. Even in her own words where she described how she didn't believe, she described how her physical body would go on to become other things. ...that elusive 'something more' that none of truly knows what will be.
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It seems that Einstein believed that something remains after death because energy doesn't die and of course, we are energy. Now what? He didn't elaborate.
My feeling about religions are that people created them because life was so hard, they had to believe there was something better after death, which often came early and brutal. In some areas of the world, that is still true.
I prefer to believe in the Rainbow Bridge (although it too is a human invention), but I feel I will see all my pets again someday. There will be horses, cats, dogs, birds and one little calf that my parents killed and ate. I didn't eat any! But I really want to believe that they will all be waiting, purely because I want to.
We all have a different view, but for me the deity just doesn't fit. If there was one, why would we be here needing support, why would people and animals die for no reason and in the most awful ways, why, why, why? I can't accept the platitudes of religious people when I ask these questions. What a cop out.
I guess it is the great mystery of life: death. I do know that my father's parents appeared to him before he died. He had conversations with them and then told me about them. What this means, I can't know, but it was reassuring somehow. One thing is certain, we will all find out eventually. In the meantime, I'm going to try to make as many moments count for something as I can.
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I agree with the way Elizabeth described things. Our energy and matter is recycled into other forms of energy and matter. Think of any science video that shows a flower blooming, dying and becoming soil that nurtures a seedling maybe of another flower or nurtures the seedling of a tree or is home for burrowing creatures. All is phenomena that keeps rolling on.
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I do like to believe that our energy is recycled into other forms and that we are all part of a cycle which keeps renewing itself as mentioned above by many of you. Seeing ourselves as part of nature rather than distinct from it.
I think what is sometimes difficult for our minds to grapple with is consciousness, or the end of it...we can't quite hold on to the idea that we will stop thinking and feeling. The very sick and those on the threshold of death apparently do experience conversations with relatives who had died before them, but is that any different to the kinds of 'appartions' and premonitions and strange coincidences people at all stages of life might experience.. you know things like deja vu, or weird coincidences like I dreamt my aunt was dying when she actually was.. we can't as yet explain such things scientifically but recognise they do happen.... But is this enough reason to believe in an after-life?
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Somehow, the idea of there being a "heaven" - where we do - what? lie around on clouds eating Philadelphia cream cheese? has alwys seemd too - boring. What would we do, endlessly?
I sure do understand the need for a concept of heaven though - a reward for this often brutal life.
Then again, perhaps heaven and hell are states that we live in here & now. I personally have my Passport to Hell - have been there many times. (my friend actually picked up afew for us at a joke store)
The best insight I've had to "heaven" was a spontaneious experience that happened 30 yrs ago. Not looking for it, it just happened. I was distraught.(over a relationship, as usual) A friend came over & gave me a shiatsu massage. I fell asleep. Came to, knowing that I was neither awake nor asleep. a state I had never been in, but I recognised immediately. I considered getting up to get a paper & pen, and realized - no.
I was at the centre of the universe, surrounded and supported by unconditonal love. Seemingly timeless and infinite. I was being rocked in the cradle of love. A voice spoke to me - it did not come from outside. Other people would say it was the voice of god. it said "Look, Arlene, look at how you have been leading your life. You have allowed all your major life's decisions to be based on your emotions." this, with total compassion and unconditonal love. utter belonging. melded with the universe, in love. I stayed there for a long time, just soaking it up. it was totally, incredibly beautiful.
In the morning, I instantly remembered every bit and wrote it down. I thought I now understood the concept "guardian angel"
30 yrs later, I'm taking a Buddhsim course at university, and I sudddenly understand. I didn't "go" anywahere - it all happend inside. it's not "Buddhist". it's a universal experience. No religion required. But the Buddhists are very acquainted form personal experience and have centuries of writings - this is not a question of "faith". And so are many others who have been there over & over - shamans, mystics, xians, sufis.- and even Eckhart Tolle!
How I see what happend to me - the shiatsu must have opened up my very constricted energy channels and bam - I fell into a bardo. What is that? it's a gap - a gap in our perception that allows us to see reality. for me, a door that once only opened, and then shut. some people go ther and stay there, and try to teach others about it. Like, for instance, jesus and Gautama Buddha. Not"gods" - people. when people say "god lies within" they are right. but the word god is loaded with cultural - stuff. so i don't use it, but understand why some people do. I depends on your culture. and of course, when not backed by personal experience but when used in a tribe mentality - so utterly twisted and shamefully used to control others.
so, in some way that we mostly don't see or understand we are connected. I think that's what most spirituality is about - seeking our connection, even in things like yoga = "yoke" = connecting the "divine" within to the rest of the "divine". And yes, I am an atheist.
The toaists - Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu - I'm talking 2500 yrs ago - were masters of this understanding of reincorpration into the totality of life.
There, my "spiritual" 2 cents in a nutshell!! and apologies in advance for sounding - whatever irks some other people.
metta
Arlene
ps will confess I am currently a Konakat junkie and was blown away by her dream. have thought about it a lot. Her reunion with her cats. the beautiful man with the dreadlocks? - perhaps a symbol for unconditionnal love? too touching, moving, sad, beautiful for words. How I wish I had known her.
Arlene
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The experience that you may have had, flannelette, is called jhana. It is a mental state that is described in both Hinduism and Buddhism as well as by Jill Bolte Taylor in her talk about her stroke.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html
Ms Taylor's comments about her seeing the exchange of molecules between her body and a hard surface (it's been a while since I saw the video so I can't remember exactly) is similar to a jhana experience described by Buddhist monks. I think that deep concentration shuts down the 'naming center' of the brain just as her stroke shut down the 'naming center' of Ms Taylor's brain.
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Notself
thank you for posting that link - it was/is an amazing talk. She has a book out now too.
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Notself - thank you for posting that link. Just beautiful, and so clearly articulated..... so why don't I meditiate more? I think I'm very lazy....yes, I think jhana. jhana (India) = Chan (China) = Zen (Japan) they had a hard time pronouncing each others' language!
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Maria, check your Private Messages. It's in the bar up top with Forum Index, etc. It's about my two TN experiences with Taxol. (Probably too long-winded for here. LOL)
--CindyMN
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SUMMER STOLSTICE 2011 STARTS OUT WITH A SOLAR STORM
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cool photo! Happy Solstice to all---looking forward to sitting on my porch at 10 at night and it still being light out. . .
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Hi I am new to this thread and just wanted to say that I am at the least Agnostic. I believe there are forces we cannot see, otherwise, how would acupuncture work? But religion and all of the God talk does nothing for me, I ave lots of well intentioned folks praying for me. If that helps them, great.
Often pretending about religion helps, just so I don't have to engage in discussion when it wouldn't be appropriate.. I just say "thanks" when people say they are praying for me.
It is hard to grasp the concept of having cancer, let alone Stage 4, without wondering "Why?" But my only answer to it is "Why not?"
ancer is just random crap that happens because of environment, crazy genes and whatevver else. It iis not "God's will" being visited upon anyone.
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I'm sorry for your diagnosis. It's frightening for all of us, but add "Stage 4" and it is all the more so. I hope you have good support from family and friends, or a support group. You can come here anytime.
When I was diagnosed I asked a counselor, what do I do--since I'm not a religious person? She told me to spend time with my pets and husband, and do things I enjoy. I also found that by meditating and spending time with nature and animals, I felt better. There is a park near the cancer treatment centre where I spent a few minutes each day. They were precious moments and helped me feel better. I also do yoga for exercise and it just happens to relieve stress too.
Honestly, I thank people for caring when they say they'll pray for me, but kindly tell them I'm not a member of that team. If someone is insistent on converting me, I tell them I'm not lost and have no desire to be converted.
With everything that is going on in the world and with people like us who arrive at these sites day after day, it's really difficult to believe that anyone is in charge. You'll find like-minded women here. Welcome.
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WElcome and a Big Hug, susanhf. yes, I think you are right - instead of saying "why me?" the real question is why not. it's random crap. I think in years to come they will look back on us with all our phthatles and parabens and plastics and whatever else, and think, how could they have been so stupid - much as we look back on the Egyptians who powdered their faces with lead.
But I am sorry you have to be in the why not group. Everyone in my immediate family had cancer, 2 of them dying of it, so when it came to me, I'd already been carrying it on my shoulder for 40 years, so it was an automatic why not. I'd always assumed I'd join the club. But I had lots of models to emulate, which was a great source of strength. do you have any friends, colleagues, relatives, who might be a bright light model for you?
IMHO, this is the time to flood yourself with love, if you can, give your poor breasts all the compassion they deserve. they have been assaulted by delinquent hooligan cells, and you didn't even know what was going on!
I don't believe in a creator god, yet oddly, when people say they will pray, (though no-one did in my case, we're all Heathens) I like it, because it represents their love. And yes, there are intangible, energetic forces such as the chi, and more, and I oddly do believe in people being cured by the laying on of hands, it has happened. If you can somehow - through nature, a person, a pet, your thoughts, access a little of the love and energy that I think we basically swim in, though we mostly do not know it, I hope that can bring a sense of healing into your life.
Loving kindness to you,
Arlene
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I wrote this one evening and thought you might enjoy it.
No heaven. No hell. No angels sitting on clouds playing harps saving my place. No pitchfork tailed demon who will own my soul forever. No reward in the afterlife. No scripted justification for blessings or curses; for decisions of life or death; for being born a scion of a rich man in America or an orphan forced to pick the garbage dumps in a suburb of Rio. I don't believe in transubstantiation, predestination, being born again, the ability to speak in tongues, the mysoginistic rules of god/men.
I have read the bible several times and gone to many classes. I have chanted. I have concentrated on my third eye.
I have searched for peace and found it when I stopped searching. I believe in birth and death and the joy between the two.
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Well said BB, I bet that felt liberating as you composed it. It certainly feels good to read it.
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