Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Geez - hate it when my post is so uninspiring it puts the board to sleep! oh well, here's my Wisdom of the East Calendar quote for today:
People become what they expect themselves to become.
-Mahatma Gandhi
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Flannel
I was living in New York city then:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Petit
We used to eat at the restaurant on the top of the WTC. I worked on Wall Street for years, and remember when a brokerage firm opened in a tower, a friend invited me to visit his office, had me sit in a chair across from the desk, and said:" Focus on the space between the desk and the next building in the window." I've never forgotten, don't remember what floor we were on - HIGH is all I remember - but as he knew, the "view" he had me focus on, showed you could just tell the buildings were SWAYING, couldn't feel it, but could see it if you concentrated on that "space" with one solid object (desk) and the other building - and then I realized BOTH buildings were "swaying" as they were supposed to. Strange, cuz you couldn't feel a thing. Just excited to be in the "new" buildings."
Still tears about what happened to all those people....
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SunflowersMA - thanks for that link -now I know why that documentary made such an impression on me - it was the one that won the academy award -and I would so love to see him -Phillipe Petit in action again. maybe he's somewhere on you tube.....and watchng the sway must have been eerie indeed....
Cheers
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Here's an interesting article, courtesy of my son
Why the New Atheism is a boys' club
Is it that female intellectuals are less rational and contrarian than male secularists? Or just that society prefers lionising men?0 -
Joy - interesting article. I wonder if more of the women are also "humanists", lovers of Life, spiritual in the natural sense, maybe Pagan, nature lovers, and all the other sources of nourishment of Soul, Self, community - Emily Dickinson, as the article states, does come to mind
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Why should anything be different for women atheists than it is for women politicians or women newscasters, etc.? This is still a sexist world we live in and it will be for many years to come.
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Thanks for article Joy...v interesting. the media seems to be most interested in highlighting the more combatative and aggressive atheists as they make more of a splash, and thus generate more viewers/readers. I suspect, with no evidence whatsoever, that you are probably correct Sunflowers, and that many female humanists are more ready to embrace a certain mysticism, as well as being more tolerant towards believers. The sort of live-and-let-live philosophy. That's not to say that sexism doesn't play a part though! Nice to have this thread awake again..didn't comment about 9/11 as whatever I tried to say seemed so trite in the face of such a tragedy....
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Interesting article Joy, I giggled at the phrase 'Sausage club' - I had never heard that one before!
I must admit that I do admire Dawkins and Hitchens - but after having read their work - aside from atheist topics and hearing them speak -Both are elegant and eloquent voices and maybe this is why they have gained such notoriety as 'new atheist' figureheads- (the article that Hitchens wrote in Vanity Fair about losing his voice to cancer was poignant) .
My belief is that gender is irrelevant in the promotion of reason and truth and both Dawkins and Hitchens have gained much respect and intellectual prominence in their fields (science and journalism) before writing their respective atheist best sellers.
The Global Atheist Convention 2012 has a large lineup of speakers - prominent male and female atheists - and while there is a featured headline about the 'four Horsemen of the anti-apocolypse', the female side of atheism is well represented with speakers such as Gaylor and Aayan Hirsi Ali and Eugenie Scott.
Appropriate topic given the extreme oppression and discrimination that women face every day worldwide due to religion and its practices.
Happy Thursday everyone!
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I don't know much about these people as I'm not an activist, but my son had told me there was dissent in the atheist and skeptics camps following a sexist remark from one of the prominent atheists. It's disappointing to me that those who claim to be such logical and independant thinkers still have those attitudes. Then again, we tend to put a lot of energy into our area of interest and maybe a stir is needed to shake up their ideas in other areas.
Sunflowers, I agree with everything you said. I couldn't have said it better.
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Interesting article. Thanks for the link. I tend to think it's sexist.
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The link is sexist?..
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I'm atheist/buddhist. The buddhist philosophy helps me to face my life & death.
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Jac53,
There is a Buddhist thread. I will Bump it for you since it has gone quiet lately. As you know, most Buddhists are atheists or agnostics so feel free to post on this and the Buddhist thread.
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Notself/Jac, how interesting...I never knew Buddhists would define themselves as atheist.
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There is no creator god or creation story in Buddhism. There are beings called devas which are translated as 'gods' but they are mortal and are not prayed to. What appears to be prayer in pictures of Asian Buddhists is usually just the people assuming a position of respect in reflecting on the virtues of the Buddha.
Theists can call themselves Buddhists and no one is going to jump on them but most Buddhists do not worship a god in accordance with the Western sense of the word; a god as a supreme creator that must be obeyed and worshipped and who determines if one will be saved or damned. Such a being does not exist in Buddhism.
If some Asian Buddhists want to worship a god, they usually pray to a Hindu god or local animist god. It is not unusual for Asians to mix religions together. Hindus worship the Buddha, even though he clearly stated he was not a god and Hindus worship Jesus as an avatar of Krishna.
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Notself, you have reminded me how much I love reading about Tibetan Buddhism, and also general Hiindu classics. I have little Ganesha sandlewood figures around my house, the Hindu God who removes obstacles from your life. Also have a strand ( mala) of lotus seeds, and one of rudrocksha ( (spelling???) seeds.
I enjoyed learning how in so many of the eastern traditions, the spirit is a part of all the daily actions. Walking and seeing pujas along a mountain road, prayer flags flying, felt good.
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I think this may be of interest:
Madalyn Murray (later O'Hair), wrote a document used in the court case Murray
v. Curlett, 1961-APR-27. It reads, in part:"An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist knows that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth - for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist thinks that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it. An Atheist thinks that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.
Therefore, he seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist knows that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. He wants an ethical way of life. He knows that we cannot rely on a god nor channel action into prayer nor hope for an end to troubles in the hereafter. He knows that we are our brother's keeper and keepers of our lives; that we are responsible persons, that the job is here and the time is now."0 -
Robyn I don't think the link or article is sexist. I just think it is still a man's world that we women live in yet. I'm sorry I didn't clarify what I was thinking about.
notself thank you for bumping the Buddhist thread. I've always been interested in Buddhism and don't know that much about it. I liked your last post by Madalyn Murray about Athesism.
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LynMichel,
A good overview of the life of Siddhattha Gotama is in the book Buddha by Karen Armstrong. A book that is an excellent overview of his teachings is What the Buddha Taught by Walpola Rahula. Like many books by Theravada Buddhists, this one is free and it happens to be online. Here is the link.
http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books11/Bhante_Walpola_Rahula-What_the_Buddha_Taught.pdf
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Notself - I've read several of Karen Armstrong's books, really like them. Haven't read that one, yet.
Do remember reading Hesse's Siddartha, years ago.
I also loved, John Avedon's In Exile from the Land of Snows, about HHTDalai Lama, and Tibet. Especially the sotry of how he was found. Still gives me shivers. Really found it fascinating.
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Hesse's Siddartha is a work of fiction as you know. I would be interested to hear your opinion of Karen Armstrong's book which brings in a great deal of the current understanding of the culture of India at the time of the Buddha. I find it useful to try and understand what he taught within the cultural context of his time.
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Notself -- thankyou for your very informative and interesting reply...I haven't read any Buddhist texts, and don't really know much about it except in what I can only describe as a pretty wishy-washy way, and the bits and pieces I pick up from my yoga class, and novels I've read which might mention Buddhism on the side. The Madalyn Murray document you quote defines atheism beautifully; pretty much the way Humanists see their role in the world, and one which I feel I can really identify with..Thanks also for your book references, I shall look them up.
(hello Sunflowers, nice to see you around!)
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notself thank you for the link 'What the Buddha Taught'. Looks like I've a lot of reading to do.
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Buddhism is not a faith in the western sense of the word. Faith in Buddhism is more accurately described as confidence. What does one have confidence in? One has confidence that one's study and practice of Buddhist teachings will be of benefit in this life. Experience will either build that confidence or not. In any case, the action and control is totally up to the individual. No one is going to "get you" if you do not accept a teaching as being worthwhile after you have given it a fair test. This is why Buddhism is also classified as a philosophy.
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BUMP! Hi everyone, thought I'd bump this up from languishing near the bottom of page 2. I wonder if we get more - or, I suspect - less traffic than when we were under Just diagnosed? Seems to me if you were freaking out from a recent dx and didn't go to church you might be frantically looking for support, whereas here, it's more like the seasoned philosopher's club.
I've been wondering - if there are "categories" of atheism - or, where are you on the sliding scale? for instance, I consider myself atheist because of my particuar sort of Buddhist leanings - there is no creator god. Certainly no big guy in the Sky. but I do have "a certain mysticism". For me, it's that we all have "Buddha Nature" in that we are in a matrix, also holding within ourselves, the capacity to become enlightened. that is, to see reality as it is. and I have evidence that this is so because of a transcendent experience I once definitely had. A Xian woud have said they "talked with God". it's just different words, stemming from culture, IMHO.
so I figure I'm somewhere on the middle of the sliding scale?
Just for fun - and because we've had 85,000 views or something and we're on page 2, and because I wander all over the threads these days (checking bco is sort of my smoking break) without finding much I can get into, what is your "variety of atheistic experience?"
Cheers all, Flannelette
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"What is your variety of atheistic experience?" is an interesting question. I agree there is a sliding scale of atheism. IMHO I would classify Pantheism as sort of atheism. Pantheists believe that the Universe is god and everything that makes up the universe is divine. Like Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism and some forms of Hinduism, there is no creator god separate from creation in Pantheism.
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I'd be very content with Pantheism, tho I still love having my sandalwood ganesha on my table
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Good Morning Notself - I was just reading your post, then stepped outside for a minute cause it's a balmy day, and it finally dawned on me why you do not have picture. hahahaha it takes a while sometimes for the penny to drop! thanks for posting! Now I'm wondering, what forms of Hinduism are not atheistic??? and which ones are? .....just thinking.......Now Taoism - there's a "religion" that's atheistic, right, but highly mystical.....same with Pantheism. Confucianism - seems more concrete earth, maybe humanistic, very practical?.., food for thought, thanks
Flannelette
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I am totally Non-theist..no sliding scale..
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Flannelette,
You are correct my non picture goes with my not self.
SoCalLisa,
I am completely non-theistic and completely non-religious. While I don't believe in rebirth/reincarnation, I do believe in recycling of matter and energy. Although I love Buddhism as a philosophy and mental discipline, as a religion, it has the same problems and flaws as any other religion.
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