Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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I believe, if there is really a god, it's in all of us and nature, as in Pantheism. I love the Buddhist philosophies which are in line with modern psychology. I'm intrigued by the teachings of non-duality gurus which is a form of Hindu Advaita. But I couldn't join any religion and have to adjust my views to suit the group, or join in rituals, chanting, attachments to many practices in a religion that teaches non attachment. Nor do I want to use Indian words like satsang and namaste which seem uncomfortable to me. And I've followed the teachings of Abraham-Hicks for more than a decade as they are so sensible and in line with modern psychology. The spiritual side of it is not important to me. It's more about accepting where we are and trying to raise our feelings gradually up the emotional scale. When we feel good it spreads out and things go well for us and those we mix with. But I could change tomorrow. Life is a wonderful adventure when we allow it to be, stay in the moment, and appreciate all the good things. Better still, when we recognise that the 'not so good' things lead to better things and start to feel good about all experiences without judgement.
I think if there is a god then I'll find out when I die, and if not I won't have missed anything. Would a god really punish me for not deciding among the many choices, none of which might be true? That idea seems implausible.
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Joy - your entry has left me speechless - your thoughts and insight are beautiful and inspiring!
Thank you
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Hi Anandagram. I'm glad you enjoyed my sentiments. I just saw your earlier post. I too lost a baby, 20 years ago. I had a son aged 3 and knew I'd have another boy. I went into labour on the due date and everything seemed fine with a heartbeat detected as I started to push. Just 15 minutes later he was born with no vital signs and couldn't be revived, so he never took a breath. There was no indication why he didn't survive the birth. I guess I did take comfort from the knowledge that things often do work out for the best and maybe he would have sufffered had he survived. Even though I'm not religious, I still thought of him as my "angel" who couldn't stay for reasons I'll never know, but at least I got to hold him for a day. None of us can know what lies ahead. I wouldn't have had my next pregnancy otherwise as two was more than enough at age 40. I rarely think about it but no doubt we'll think about his 21st anniversary next February.
My youngest son graduated from College this week, and my eldest graduates from university on Wednesday. We're having a celebration lunch after the ceremony before my eldest flies interstate, back to his job. I'm so proud of my boys!
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Joy and Anandagram..Just read your posts and thought how sad and strange it is that I too lost a baby, but in Sam's case he didn't die at birth but at the age of 5 months from a very virulent infection. In June 2011 we would have celebrated his 21st birthday. He was my second child (daughter 5 years older) and after he left us I had another boy and girl, but of course we always wonder how he would have grown up and what he would be doing now.
Joy, I also empathised with what much of what you wrote, although feeling good about all experiences without judgement is quite a tall order. The 'suffering makes you better' attitude is one I find hard as it leads to a kind of passivity, and an acceptance of not only suffering, but also injustice, for example, in the case of extreme poverty, starvation etc..
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I think we need to change the things we want and can help to happen
but live with those we cannot..
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Good Morning Joy Lies Within - I loved your sentence "When we feel good it spreads out and things go well for us & those who mix with us." To me, it's kind of another way of saying "My religion is kindness" - the Dali Lama.
I'm only aware of one non-duality guru (a great way of putting it) - Eckhart Tolle. But who is Abraham-Hicks?
and i know Advaita Vedanta is very sophisticated and I studied it once years ago ---- do you mind reminding me a little bit?(chemo brain)
I too circle around many spiritual concepts - have since a child but knew Xianity was not it - am drawn to it all, don't want to use words like Namaste, though I do - there is absolutely no obligation IMHO to observe any rites. we can all make up our own. Like maybe running outside to throw my arms around a tree, or looking at the moon. a great joy of mine is being able to ook out my bedroom window with no lights outside, anywhere, and see the stars - my bed right up against my window. I love to spot Orion - but oops I don't think he's a southern constellation.
I guess my gut feeling is that we are creatures who evolved to a point where we are conscious of the universe and able to ask many questions - and we are still evolving - towards what? kindness? non-duality? to me, spiritual life is a quest to understand by intuition what the scientists hope to understand by measuriing - and I love both. (started out taking physics courses for laymen - an intro to scientific thought up into present times - blew my mind! abd then went over to the religious studies dept to continue asking, this time nt the physicists but the spiritually inclined - both deeply rewarding adventures that changed my life)
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JoyLiesWithin
Loved your post re: Pantheism. I have that wonderful Maori Proverb: "Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you." on my desk next to this computer. I've thought a lot about it, and especially after reading your post: hard to put into words, but I think I've (finally) learned I'm happiest, greatest sense of inner peace, well being, when I look to be living in a Benevolent Universe, guess it's kind of like "turning your face to the sun" - if, and when ( have had several tragedies in my life) it isn't a Benevolent Universe, well, I just give myself permission to create the vision again, that it is.
Denial? Maybe. But it's made my life much more pleasant, hopeful. I find it increasingly difficult to be with, or around very cynical, negative people. I'm not trying to convine anyone else, and something like what SoCalLisa said , I'm not "seeking" anymore. Really am content with where I am, not resigned, but surprisingly content.
I really appreciate having this thread. Inspiring, Thanks to all who take the time, energy to post.
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Hi All, I so agree with you Flannelette and Sunflowers. Kindness brings so much happiness to others and myself. Being conscious of the universe and knowing I have more questions than answers is exhilarating and gives me a wonderful sense of being open and free to explore those questions and really not need a singular answer. It's the winding journey that is inspiring to me. I agree with you Sunflowers about bing around those negative people. I see them everyday and I wonder why and how they got to be so. I just smile, let it go, and move on to the next person. Sometimes just a smile will lighten their load even if it's only for that few minutes I greet them. I also feel content. Thanks everyone, this is so wonderful! Kitty
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You might or might not have heard that Christopher Hitchens passed away and you might be interested in logging in to www.openculture.com where you will find him talking briefly about whether being very ill had watered down his views at all, as well a tribute to him introduced by Christopher Fry.
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Maria
I was just reading his obituary in the New York Times. Loved his comments when asked about a "death bed conversion" - he had an amazing sense of humor, intelligence.
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What a great loss.
Maria-Malta,Thanks for the wonderful link.
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ok, I am so out of the loop, who is Christopher Hitchens - sounds like someone I could be reading this new year.
Thank you
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Christopher Hitchens was a world famous atheist and polemicist. Among his many books is one titled God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything. Needless to say, not everyone mourns his passing.
From 60 Minutes.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7358646n&tag=segementExtraScroller;housing
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Okay, so God is not Great goes on my "to read" list.
Happy Winter Solstice to everyone!!
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I just found this thread and see there are 122 pages, so I'm sure someone has said what I'm going to already, but ... many atheists object to that title, because it's defining us by what we don't believe in (A-Theist, meaning "without God"--but how can you be without something you don't believe in?) instead of what we DO believe in. I've heard the term "Rationalist" (as in rational scientifice approach to figuring out life) and I'm trying to adopt that for myself.
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if you're going to pick up Hitchens, check out Sam Harris, "Letter to a Christian Nation." Harris is American, when I read his book I felt I'd finally found someone who could articulate everything I felt.
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Hmmm ... Rationalist ... I really like that! I think I might just have to adopt that myself!
Sam Harris added to the list. Thanks for the recommendation!
Oh and welcome!
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Yes, 'Rationalist' is good, although I think I prefer the term 'Humanist', as it includes the idea of holding a moral obligation and responsibility towards our fellow humans, without it being encapsulated within a formal religious framework.
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My initial reaction to the word "rationalist" is also to be concerned with the long human history of using rational thought to ask what we can do, rather than asking what we should do. It is not just on the grand scale of human history, but also on the personal level of being very rational that has to be tempered with an acceptance of the validity of emotions and a need for moral action.
However, the word "humanism" raises other questions for me. I don't know anything about it as a movement. What is the origin of the name "humanism"? Is there an inherent belief in some centrality of humans to the universe? Or is that name more based on a responsibility as a human? In either case, is there some sense of superiority or "specialness" of humans? I think I personally prefer to place ourselves as humans into the chorus of the universe without any solos.
By the way, I am so grateful...and intrigued to find this discussion here, in this facet of my life...I never would have guessed that I would find my intellectual side so stimulated by people that I have "met" in this journey through breast cancer. It is intriguing because I think that my encounters with the wider world generally are lacking intellectual depth and it is meaningful that we would find such a discussion here...
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There's lots of information on humanism on the internet..it goes back to Greek philosophy and has been influenced by a long line of thinkers..I think establishing itself in the 19th century as 'secular humanism'. Its basic premise is that as human beings we have reason and share a common humanity, recognising that moral values are properly founded on human nature and experience. While believing strongly in individual rights and freedoms, humanists accept that human responsibility, social co-operation and mutual respect are just as important. Basically humanists look to human beings to solve problems instead of looking at God, and our ethics and values are natural, ie not divine.
CLC I see why you might be uncomfortable with the idea of humans being held up as something 'special' and preferring to see us as part of the 'chorus of the universe' as you so nicely put it. I think the angle might be a bit different, but not inherently contradictory..Humanists gain inspiration from the rich natural world, and do not see themselves as separate from it...but focus more on our moral responsibilty towards it...so in a way I think one might say that humanists are looking more at 'doing' rather than 'being'.
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Maria_Malta,
Well put. Here is a link to the Council for Secular Humanism. http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?page=what§ion=main
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Thanks for link Notself
...v interesting! 0 -
I was always religious Christian all my life but am now telling myself to wake up and smell the coffee if there was a compassionate God there would be no children's cancer hospitals. I am leaning towards John Lennon's imagine philosophy and the Zechariah Sitchin explanations of earth. Yu may be right after all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,how do you upload photo on here?? I think you are very brave to come out and state your positio with regards to atheismn. However, I respect everyone's right to their belief system.
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Notself...thank you for the website. I made a first read through and it is consistent with what I vaguely knew about humanism. It has tons to offer in informing a world view.
Maria_Malta...I completely agree that humanism is not directly contradictory with my own view (nor is the label "rationalist"), but you are right in saying that it is definitely a different angle. The science training in my background and the atheism in my background both make me want to be sure that human importance is not elevated above any other resident of our universe. Not that it matters much, since I try to act in ways that are basically consistent with what you and the website describe as humanism...:)
Anyway...thank you all for keeping me thinking...
Claire
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Layla - I bought a CD last week entitled "Playing for Change 2". One of the tracs is a remake of John Lennon's imagine. I was on my way to radiation when I played the song for the first time. I actually pulled over and listened closely to the words - I never really listened closely to the words before or related to them the way I do now.
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Imagine by John Lennon:
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...Imagine
there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...You may say
I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as oneImagine no
possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...You may say
I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one0 -
notself - Thanks so much!....just imagine if....
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*warning this is a vent*
Sometimes I get soooo tired of hearing Christians professing their faith or commenting about it in other ways. I live in the bible belt and it's so common here. I have no problem with someone saying they're praying for me but it's the constant interjection into everyday conversation that I'm so sick of.
I end a conversation with someone on the phone and they say ... "Have a blessed day".
I was having my teeth cleaned the other day and my hygienist & I were talking about how someone we both knew was having a very difficult time and of course, she said ... "But God doesn't give you more than you can handle".
There were several commercials for local car dealerships this year at the holidays and the owners were giving the typical speech about remember that we are celebrating the birth of our savior.
I could go on and on.
I guess I'm just getting old and grumpy. Sometimes I fantasize about what it would be like if all of us that don't believe talked about it as much as those that do.
Hmmm, maybe I could end my conversation with ... "Have a rational day!"
When discussing the trials one goes through I might say ... "Well, I hope things will get better and that he/she isn't just hoping on a miracle from a god that doesn't exist."
I FIRMLY believe that people should believe whatever they want I'm just so tired of hearing about it everyday!
Sorry, just had to get it out and figured it'd be safe here.
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PlantLover... yeah, I think it is safe here! I totally understand your feelings. I don't live in the Bible Belt (though I did for years). I can relate to your frustration in just the assumptions everyone makes about me...that I hold certain beliefs...religious or otherwise... Like that I have a clue what is on t.v. (we cancelled cable years ago)...or that I would, of course, choose reconstruction...or that my husband must be a sports fan...or that I eat McDonalds food... or that I believe in god. Whatever mainstream assumptions that are made...they get old. I am grateful to know that you are out there in the world...I feel a little less like I am flying through this world solo...:)
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Everyone likes to be agreed with. When Christians bless you or credit their imaginary friend with good outcomes, they feel more correct when other people express the same opinions. We feel better by posting on this thread because other posters agree with us.
The difference between atheists and Christians is many Christians, especially in the Red States, feel a compulsion to impose their beliefs on non believers. Some like Santorum and Bachmann wish to impose a type of Christian sharia law on the entire country. This nation was founded as a secular democracy and these supposedly Constitution loving Christians want to overturn the very basis for this nation. It is this desire for a theocracy that I find offensive.
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