Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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PlantLover,
I do agree that NEDs have rational explanations. NEDs may be due to chemical changes in the body after heart attack, drowning or severe injury. Others may be due to the drugs given as part of resuscitation.
The Jill Bolte Taylor description of her stroke indicates that transcendent experiences can be caused by the interruption of discursive thought. This is what lead to the discussion of meditation.
I'm looking forward to your advice about my yard.
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I am a card carrying atheist . . . and BC won't change that . . . I come, however, from a very very very (did I say very?) religious family . . . and I have been told that I have been added to upteen prayer lists . . . I'm not offended by it at all . . . so long as noone trys to "preach" to me or "convert" me or anything . . . as long as it stays out of all conversations with me I don't mind what happens in the "background". My family knows my views . . . and they've been pretty cool so far . . . hope it stays that way . . .
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Flannelette, I used the Mindfulness Bsed Stress Reduction course for GAD, as well. It's true that a course isn't necessary for learning how to meditate, but I found it exceptionally useful for learning how to stick with meditation and develop an ongoing practice, as well as to understand the relationship between anxiety and mindfulness. To explore this in a safe community of other people also facing health challenges was priceless, really. I wish MBSR was more widely available. Reading Full Catastrophe Living and using Jon Kabat Zinn's meditation CDs is a good alternative.
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Hello Luckyjnjmom, hello Charles, hello Vegangirl, welcome if you haven't been here before.
Plantlover..I don't want you brooding
....loved your camelia photos but got distracted trying to catch up with all the ideas flying about! When there is a scientific or rational explanation to something then I go with it, but I don't fret if there isn't, or if I haven't come across it, or if it hasnt been discovered yet, as I also believe there are things which are something of a mystery and cannot be explained. Thought I'd share an early childhood experience..the nuns at my school had told us that becoming a nun is a vocation which is sent to you when you least expect it, even if you have never wished for it...somehow god's will is shown to you, and you must accept. When asked what would happen to girls who refused the vocation, we were told that our lives would be terrible as a result and that we would always regret our decision. (nothing like a good Catholic school to make a woman of you!) When I was about 8, I had this image of lying in bed at night and my bedroom window bursting open to reveal an angel, beautiful of face, light shining all around him, and a finger pointed towards little me lying in bed. The angel announced that I'd been chosen and that god had sent me a vocation. Oh what a disaster I thought, and I for a number of years I prayed every night NOT to be sent a vocation...as you can see my prayers were answered....
On that note I'd like to say good night to you all, and I really enjoy this thread...
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Maria Malta - thanks so much for that story. a perfect examplle of mumbo-jumbo from the voodoo lounge. yes ideas flying around nicely and then we'll get on to something boring and all go back to sleep zzzzzzz
it's spring here in southern ontario - my first snowdrops almost opened today.
an atheist is an a - theist. meaning, not a believer in a creator god who doles out punishment or gives a big reward at the end. Atheist does not necessarily mean materialistic.it does not preclude certain emotions, feelings, sense of connection, or a semi-mystical or even mystical approach to life, nature, and the universe we inhabi and why, which will always be a big topic of interest..Thanks, Notself, for giving us an accurate definition of atheist, and neatly changing the topic. Can't hlep you out there, I'm afraid - it's sandy here, and probably not as hot.
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In the southern hemisphere it's Autumn, or Fall if you speak American. Not that we had much summer, but at least it wasn't unbearably hot. It's hardly stopped raining so my vegetables have been neglected and the weeds have taken over and the ground is saturated.
We have 1 Hectare which is about 2 1/2 acres, the same as Notself. It's heavy clay, probably with sandstone not very far down. We don't have compaction, but we battle blackberry and privet. We also have rabbits and foxes. These were all introduced to Australia by well meaning early settlers. My husband spends too much time mowing and cutting down overgrowth. I'd like to sell up and get something more manageable.
I love all the photo's. I like to see what plants are grown around the world and how people landscape their gardens.
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Just discovered this thread. To introduce myself: I am 46, was diagnosed with stage III IDC in 6/2010, have two little kids. I am trying to figure out how to fit my own beliefs into my community right now. Raised Quaker until I was 9, then we moved and all religion/worship/talk of such things ceased in my family. Kind of a total-family depression that lasted years.
I have at times found myself wishing that I had had enough of a religious education when I was young to convince me. Of what, I'm not sure. Of anything. From the outside, belief appears more comfortable than disbelief or question.
Yet I see things that for me are worth recognizing and doing something, I don't know if the right word for the "something" would be "worshipping" or not. Especially the act if doing good for others when it is against one's own self-interest.
Notself, I am in the arid SW USA. I love this nursery:
http://www.plantsofthesouthwest.com/
I knew my post-cancer depression was improving when I found an old paper catalogue of theirs and felt the little tickle of having a treat to read in bed that night.
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Hi Outfield, ...I am from the SW too, San Diego..we are really a desert by the sea so we have all kinds of plants here...welcome..
When I was a child our family was religious but not overly...when I went to college we were required to take a philosophy or religion course and then again when we were seniors to see how our belief or non belief systems had matured..very interesting...they were mainly comparative courses...but that was over fifty years ago and after having lived all over the US and outside I could see the enthrocentrism of cultural religious and philosophy ideas..they do fill an individual and cultural need for meaning and social control. BUT we must all decide for ourselves .
One great book to read is "Magic, Science and Religion" by Malinowski...we had to read it for intro physics...interestingly enough...
At any rate I am a non-theist but believe I must behave in a kind and caring manner to one another..
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It's interesting to hear so many of us say that we believe not in a deity but that we believe that we should all be kind and caring to each other. That, to me, is important and certainly has nothing to do with religion. Certainly we see practitioners of various religions espousing other than that principle. The two are separate, in my mind.
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Guitargrl
I am also an atheist, but believe in a spiritual force guiding everything .
If it is your time,you could be hit by a truck and not die from breast
cancer.Mastectomy may not prolong life,tons of surgery.I guess
if you don't want to worry about testing and anxiety, it may
be worth it for some.I have a big scar:was termed a partial
mastectomy but at least I still have a breast.
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Guitargrl
I am also an atheist, but believe in a spiritual force guiding everything .
If it is your time,you could be hit by a truck and not die from breast
cancer.Mastectomy may not prolong life,tons of surgery.I guess
if you don't want to worry about testing and anxiety, it may
be worth it for some.I have a big scar:was termed a partial
mastectomy but at least I still have a breast.
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Hi, Outfield,
Have been to many Quaker meetings in my life, love, LOVE the Silence in community. Something about it, also reminds me of Meditation, find both healing. Still remember, during a very, VERY anxious time, talking with a "Friend" from a Quaker meeting, and her soothing words, at least soothing for me, were: "the way will open." A very trusting way about living, found it comforting, still do.
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Slalu, You're replying to a post on the first page, in 2008. On this thread we don't believe in a god or outside force, though some are Buddhists who also don't believe in a god.
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notself ... There are different ways that I would suggest dealing with the compacted soil depending on what the plans are for the area. For example, are you wanting to seed grass in the area or plant trees? Perhaps you're just wanting the soil to perc (drain) properly. So, could you provide a bit more detail?
Regarding perennials, what cold & heat zones are you in? I'm assuming you are in the United States.
Here are some links for you ...
If you'd rather send me that info via a PM, that's fine.
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Thanks to all of you for the warm welcome to a club of which none of us wants to be member, I'm sure.
My apologies for responding to a four-year-old post. It took me a bit of looking to get used to the format here. I do hope Dudess is no longer here merely because she has put this phase of her life behind her and is doing well. I found the other day that I had responded to a post from another man whose breast cancer was diagnosed much later than mine, but appeared to be making progress ... only to discover, upon reading the entire thread, that he had actually passed a month or so ago. I quickly edited that post.
Anyway, as to the original question on this thread, I do find it refreshing that not all of us appear to undergo some sort of religious epiphany merely because we are confronted by our own mortality. I certainly respect the views of those that do, but it would be disingenuous on my part to claim any particular religious insight having resulted from this experience. What it did do was remind how lucky I am, with incredible support from family and friends ... and a huge number of my readers (I was an editor at a magazine for 17 years ... laid-off, by the way, on the very day my diagnosis was confirmed) who came through in so many wonderful ways.
As for the horticultural questions ... I live in Wyoming. It's still winter here and have little expertise to offer.
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Lisa - thanks for another great book title - when I started back to university 10 yrs ago the very first class i took was Physicists of the Nuclear age and it blew my mind. There. That dates me. I zoomed right out of a major depression, and it gave me a lift - I was 50 and everyone else 20 yikes it was intimidating - one of those giant lecture halls. For each era we were having a lecture on that day the prof played the appropriate music on giant speakers, at the beginning. I was utterly stunned to learn we are stardust - and how I love that! I then took the big view and sat in on The Astronomer's Universe.
both courses flipped me out, but when I wanted to do another I went right over to the religious studies dept. Religion had never oppressed me as I child - I was totally free to do as I pleased but somehow kept getting mixed up with kids who were some sort of fundamentalist Xian group - always felt icky. So now had discovered Science vs Religion. I came to the party quite late! and loved it. For me, it all boiled down to (but not really) how people try to to understand the universe - by measuring or by intuition. I think theTaoists really got it by intuition; their acceptance of coming into form, living and dying and all things constantly changing is so profound. and this was about 500 BCE.
It's lovely to see new people hre - glad you've joined our thread - might be because as there are lots of posts lately we often appear in favourite topics, or whatever that is at the top - otherwise we doze for long periods of time. This is the most fun it's been in a while, IMHO.
Spring (Autumn) greetings, everyone.
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PlantLover,
Thanks for the links. What a shock! When I moved to Arkansas we were a 6B zone. Now we are a Zone 7 in the cold and Zone 8 in the Heat. No---There's no such thing as Climate Change. I should have rechecked the Zones before this.
Our soil is clay and small rocks, lots and lots of small rocks. The rocks keep the soil draining well except where the heavy trucks compressed it. Now when it rains we have many small rivers the size of tire tracks. Any ideas?
Charles_Pelkey,
Welcome to the thread although I wish you never had occasion to meet us. A couple of years ago one of my high school friends tried to convert me via email. She, like many, tried to use fear and veiled threats as part of her pitch. She tried to tell me "There are no atheists in fox holes." I responded with this link. http://militaryatheists.org/expaif.html
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Well you know Kurt Vonnegut's response to the "there are no atheists in fox holes" line, right?
"There's a Chaplain who never visited the front." Hocus Pocus, pg. 182
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Wow, this thread has been busy! Welcome to all the new posters to this thread.
PlantLover, I had to go back and find your pics - which were worth the hunting. They're beautiful!
I got a couple of upsetting emails this morning which sent me to this thread. There were two of them from my father's cousin. They were very political, and contrary to my views, but that wasn't what really upset me. They were loaded with Christian fundamentalism with a big dose of hate for anyone differing from that.
There is a history to this with this cousin and in the past I had finally gotten him to agree to avoiding politics and religion in our emails but I guess with election season coming up he couldn't hold back anymore. We shall see if we are still speaking after he receives my responses.
Anyway, I'm glad something sent me to this thread. I've enjoyed catching up. Hello and my best to all.
Edited to add: I also believe that near death experiences have scientific, physical, probably chemical explanations.
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River Rat,
I don't know about NDE's. But for me, thats OK. Maybe if I had one, I'd develop a belief about them, but I don't feel discomfort if I can't explain everything that I observe. I definitely don't feel the need to have others explain the unknown to me using comforting (or not!) constructs involving purposeful outside forces.
Cookie,
Yes I also believe those two things - kindness to others and theism - are separate. The intersection I see may be in the thought given to them. If "worship" is used in what my Oxford Dictionary calls an archaic way, "worthiness, merit; recognition given or due to these; honour and respect," then I do think that being kind in this world is worthy of worship. My goal is not to please some paternalistic greater being or pave my way to heaven, but to make this world a better place. I do believe life would be better for us all if we all tried harder to be kind and not selfish. I can't do this without a lot of conscious effort. Is that "worship," in that archaic sense? I am not sure.
I am at times brusque, irritable, selfish and even volatile. What I find myself wishing is that I had a community of people with similar beliefs to help support me in my goal to be a more positive force in this world. Honestly, I want to be an atheistic Quaker. One of the things that appeals to me about my parents' (and grandparents') faith is that I don't know of any past use of that faith as a cloak for harm and selfish gains.
I do think that people long for community. Churches do create community. In my post-diagnosis life, I am even more conscious of the need for community in my life. I just wish I could find a way to fill that need without implying a lie about my beliefs by joining a meeting or church.
You all seem like a wonderfully thoughtful group. If you have ideas for me, please let 'em fly.
Letitia
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Outfield,
What would happen if you attended the church and told people you were an atheistic Quaker? Would you be shunned or would they allow you to sit with them until you saw the light? It seems such a gentle and loving organization, I would like to think they would allow you to sit.
RiverRat;
Hate is usually a manifestation of fear. I had a friend who hounded me about religion. She quizzed me on my childhood and was actually disappointed that I had had a happy childhood and a happy successful life without the need of magical thinking about an invisible friend. She told me that my happiness and contentment was a delusion. She was very fearful of being wrong about her beliefs. It was quite sad really.
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Hi, Charles
Sorry you had to "join" this club of bc. Most of us had the same problem when first posting, not realizing how old the OP ( original post) on a thread was. There's been some comments exchanged with moderators about "closing" some threads - it's always so hard to respond, and realize the person is no longer with us. Very hard.
Not as hard as being laid off on the day of diagnosis. Darn ( but thinking a stronger word) that really is awful. What kind of a magazine? Do you have possibilities for what's next? Hope it works out for you.
Ok gardeners - get ready for this one - it is 65 in the hills of Western MA. Just so strange. Will still ahve some cold nights, but maple syrup tapping is over - started earlier this year, true, but very early to end. Learned that tapping stops when trees start to bud, cuz sap gets bitter. Also learned it takes 40 gallons of sap to create 1 gallon of maple syrup. No wonder we call it liquid gold.
Outfield, Notself - I don't know if there is an "atheist Quaker" - but I can say I've never met a Quaker who wasn't kind, welcoming, and open to having anyone participate in the community of Silence.
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Cookie, I think they are separate too, many centuries of living have taught us the best way to interact
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charles that is a great comeback to the foxhole analogy...but of course there are many athiests in foxholes
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notself, I will try to imagine that my cousin is fearful of his worldview being challenged and try to not let him get under my skin. Thanks.
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So interesting catching up here....When I was diagnosed with mets in 2009, I really struggled with meaning-making and learning how to live with a new phase of my cancer experience. Years after shedding a belief system that was grounded in Christianity, I had come to terms with my personal approach to life and felt grounded in that approach, but I--as many of us do--felt somewhat adrift with a third cancer diagnosis. I learned to feel comfortable in the drift and to slowly integrate my new experiences into my outlook on life. I began to fear less and to focus more on living with gratitude. I happened to have a Mennonite client who talked to me at length one day about "an attitude of gratitude." We "connected" over that idea, and I was glad that I could have a meaningful conversation with someone who had very distinctly different views from mine and that we could touch each other's lives in a very meaningful way, looking at the same perspective from different angles. I'm grateful for all the wonderful ideas and suggestions that I find here!
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Brendatrue - thanks for mentioning "an attitude of gratitude" - it is such a healing way of being for me now too. Was introduced to it years ago, in several waht I guess would be called "New Age" groups - didn't resonate for me as much then - really does now.
Part of all my meditations, daily walks, mindfulness - and always healing. Seems to bring forward the truly best parts of everything. Gratefulness, gratitude.
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BUMP just in case we get lost on page 2...hey, I'm going on a trip. to the Turks & Caicos Islands. Silly as we're in spring - robins, snowdrops blooming, but back when I booked it I was rememberiing the huge blizzard we usually have about April 1. Maybe not so this year...
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flannelette,
Do you snorkel or scuba dive? My DH and I were stationed in Guantanamo Bay, before it was turned into a gulag. We both ended up as PADI instructors. The water is crystal clear and is around 80`F at the surface. No need for a wet suit.
Have a wonderful trip.
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oh man, I love snorkeling in the carribbean. the water is just perfect. Yes, have a marvelous trip, flannelette!! Wish I could hide in your suitcase.
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