Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Cindyl
You are SO SO SO SO SO "new" on this journey - give yourself a long time to relax. Seriously, sor at least the first year, while I was going through treatment, I'd "forget" for a few minutes that I had been diagnosed with bc - then - WHAM, all of a sudden, I'd go weak at the knees, literally - realizing how I felt when I found out - and first heard that word, cancer. There is something that is SO difficult to explain to anyone who hasn't experienced it, or who experiences having cancer as not as SHOCKING, LIFE CHANGING, as some of us with bc did/do.
"Deer in headlights" is a good description - try to be as gentle with yourself as you can be - this is a real HEALING time for you. Very early - hope your treatments went well. If you're taking tamoxifen, or an AI, check out those forums if you have side effects ( SE's)
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Thanks SunflowersMA!
I know you're right, but right now it seems if I relax, the fear just overwealms me. I'm running like a hamster in a wheel.
The surgery went fine. I feel ok... a little tired, but nothing intolerable. I start rads this week, and will be doing tamoxifen in May after I'm done with the rads.
I'm so glad I found this place... I have one friend who can listen to me and give decent advice (her son in 3 years past a brain tumor benign, but nearly deadly) She has great insight in dealing with the medical establishment... But it seems like everybody else in my life, needs me to reassure them that everything is going to be fine... My Mom is an invalid (MS) and is worried sick, my bf lost her sister to breast cancer and just shuts down when I'm anything other than positive and upbeat. And everyone else seems to think that "well if you don't need chemo? then it's really no big deal..."
And to some extent I agree. People who are stage 4 obviously have things worse, but hey, I'm still in a funk.
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Cindyl,
Being in a funk is a perfectly natural and appropriate emotion. Intellectually you know your cancer could have been worse, but it is only reasonable to feel that you have a tragedy in your life.
As to your friends and family. Your mother is worried for you and you are worried for her so you each have someone to talk to about your fears for each other and for yourselves. This can be a good thing for both of you.
There isn't much that you can do for your friend excpet be there for her because she can't really be there for you. You may want to call your local Hospice and get the number of their support group for families who have lost loved ones. The support group is independent of Hospice and might help you friend.
As for everyone else, you are going to hear a lot of well meaning but stupid or ignorant comments. Let them roll off you back.
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Cindyl
everything notself said
a support group is the BEST BEST way to work out what's right for you.
Did you have the Oncotype DX test, or is your oncologist basing the no chemo decision on the grade of your cancer ( 1) which is VERY LOW....but knowing your oncotype score might also reassure you regarding reoccurence....
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Had the Oncotype DX.
Breast Cancer Recuurence Score = 9
ER =10.0+ PR = 9.9+ Her2 = 9.4-
MO was on the fence before we did the test... everything was good except the size of the tumor.
But now he says he agrees that no chemo is a reasonable decision. So yay me.
This whole experience is going to change the way I deal with life I think. I've always been a decisive person. Do what you need to do. Move on, no second thoughts. But this whole cancer thing??? Oh my. The "right" answer may not exist at all. But I'll cope.
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Cindyl - that is a FABULOUS Oncotype score. PLEEEEEEZE stop worrying about a reoccurence with a score like that - really. Esp. with a Grade 1.
The qupte comes to mind, re bc, someone used to use in her signature line, "like Hotel California song by the Eagles, "You can check out, but you can never leave"
But with your stats - really, I'd just be GRATEFUL!!!!! None one wants this disease, but seems like you've been dealt a pretty good hand - really.
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Cindyl,
Wonderful news.
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Cindyl
I don't mean to say ANYTHING about bc is "easy." IT ALL SUCKS - but I am HAPPY FOR YOU - for drawing about the "best" hand you could in this experience. Really - it's SO new, I can completely understand your shock - but you'll begin to feel better VERY soon - and with time, your perspective will improve too - I know it will.
Sorry you have so many other ver difficult things going on in your life - it is a LOT to handle.
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Cindyl...I had it as easy as anyone, with a stage 0, low grade, unifocal dx.
But as sunflowers said...there ain't nothing easy about bc.
And, I don't think it is helpful to compare one's own pain and struggle to another's. Fear is fear and pain is pain. And we each have strong days and weak ones. Days when we can follow my tagline (turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you), days when Churchill is more apt (if you are going through hell, keep going), and days when all you can do is curl up in a ball on the couch and cry. Do not accept other's characterizations of your own experience and do not knock yourself for being human.
Those are my two cents, anyway...
Claire
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I agee completely with CLC - it's just HARD.
The best advie I got from my oncologist re: worrying, was - "just try to stop, it's not helping." I laughed - and we looked over my "stats" - a lot more "serious" than Cindyl, but again, not nearly as "bad" as they could have been. Somehow, that perspective really helped me see a more positive future. BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, it was about 2 years into treatment ( I'm still on an AI, and will be for years & years) which is SO much easier emotionally than in the very early days.
I still can remember the SHOCK, weak knees, hit in the GUT feeling of those early days. YUCK, getting shivery goosepimples as I type this.
Sunshine & sunny days to all -
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Hi everyone, I have not dropped off the planet ,.....
just been super busy...I just love a place where I can
just tell it like I see it...thanks
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In coping with three breast cancer adventures, I have learned to tell myself when I find myself worrying, "I am doing "good enough' in caring for myself today, so I may allow myself to let go of the worry." I purposefully chose "good enough" because I needed to remind myself that the pursuit of perfection and/or control is simply not workable in terms of managing all aspects of cancer and its legacy for my life and that fear often underlies the desire for "perfection" and control. I want to focus on LIVING my life to the extent possible without fear, although I must admit fear continues to be a part of my experience. I accept that it plays a part in my cancer experience, but I do not want it to play a large part, if at all possible.
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My basic fear, is fear of PAIN...
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Thanks all. I appriciate the support. I know others have it worse. Here on the group and in my own everyday life. We've got several people at work going through cancer and other serious health challenges. My Dad died of lung cancer, I lost an aunt to bc and so on.
Mentally, I understand that I'm in a really good position, but as easy as it is for me to tell myself and the doctors, friends and family to say don't worry, this is something you can handle...
I keep second guessing. How can you be so sure? You missed the cancer for at least 2 years... It had plenty of time to get up to know good. What if I sneeze during radiation. What if? What if? I'll get over it, but to bring all this back on topic, the next person who tells me to put myself in God's hands is gonna get smitted.
And yes, SoCalLisa, I really hate pain and I'm not at all convinced that I won't be dealing with pain a lot in the next days, weeks, etc.
Yes. I'm being a baby here. But I have to be strong for all the people who depend on me, so you guys are getting my inner whimp. 0 -
Cindy, you don't sound like a baby; you sound like a sentient human being! Don't be so hard on yourself. By the way, I was thinking about your earlier "getting hit by a bus" comments. People who have had cancer typically have an eye-opening experience that raises their awareness about their mortality. At that point you just don't live in the world in the same way. And if I had already been hit by a bus, you can bet I'd do everything possible to avoid being hit again. And if I hadn't been hit by a bus, I imagine I'd not even be worrying about that outcome since the probability is so low. That whole bus line makes me cringe--I think it is a very superficial comment that minimizes very legitimate concerns about our health. And when people tell me to put myself in God's hands I like to say that I am more comfortable trusting mother nature and science to care for me!
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Cindyl
Please keep reminding yourself how RECENT your diagnosis - and how slow growing a Grade 1 usually is - I LOVE LOVE LOVE whata brendatrue says about "GOOD ENOUGH"
years ago, during the height of the HPM ( human potential movement/ new agey 1960's) one of the adages tossed around was "what you resist, persists." I'm sure that applies to FEAR -knowing the fear is there, not resisting it, just letting it be - is the only way I know how to deal with it. I accept it's just never going to go away - I just want to try to keep it as much in the background as I can.
brendatrue - you've had a really, REALLY difficult "journey" with bc - thank you for sharing your courage and your fear - I'm really going to make a BIG sign for myself "Good Enough." thanks....
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I just noticed this post, which originated in 2008, so I haven't read all of the comments and I don't know if this has been addressed. What makes an atheist or an agnostic? I don't believe in a "god", or an entity. especially one addressed as "HE".
I believe that we are all connected with the universe. Something minor that happens here on earth affects something on a galaxy a long distance away and vice versa. It's been proven. I think it might be called a quasar. Those of you who know what I'm talking about will understand. My chemo brain isn't letting me think about the words I need to use.
So, if I believe in the energy of the universe, does that make me an agnostic, an atheist, or something else?
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If there is a god, why did he give me cancer? I'm not a bad person
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ah, nevertoolate....the age ole question...only answer I have is She Didn't. Accident of the Universe. Don' t think the Universe judges, it just is.
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Amontro, I don't think you need to fit within any particularly label to post here, if that's underlying your question. This is basically a place for us to commiserate about how we find it impossible to "Let Go and Let God," or whatever sorts of things get your average God-believer through the night.
There are all sorts of people who post here. The only thing we get a little snippy about is if a proselytizing Christian tries to covert us. Sigh. As if hearing the story one more time is going to change any of our minds. <grin>
--CindyMN
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Amontro,
Labels are limiting but if you want one call yourself "of the universe", it is probably more accurate than any other label you can use. We are as much a part of the universe (all there is) as a star or a galaxy.
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Even more than being part of the universe, I often think of us now as being on the leading edge of the breaking wave of creation - wow! we ARE the universe. and back to "spirituality" for a moment, some people know it, because they see reality in a different way - non-verbal, without ego, and so they just go with the flow.
Just back from Turks & Caicos - totally FAB, but sadly, because I look like the lizard-lady, did not go on any boats to go snorkeling.But thanks for your suggetions, notself - will use them next time. did swim twice a day in the most exquisite torquoise, stinging like crazy with the salt, which was very healing and I LOVED it.
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I love this thread.....
Cancer is life changing. Cindy, you are coping with that fact. It gives us fear but also strength because we know what our true values are, where we really stand, and what the limits of our endurance are. In a philosophical way, cancer has been quite liberating for me, even if I am faced with the specter of recurrence and death at an early age.
Yes, indeed. If there were a God there would not be cancer. Just shows you how bankrupt most organized religion is.
Philosophically, I find cancer liberating. It enables me to give myself permission to accept my views on life. I am living on the edge, so I have certain rights, if you know what I mean.....I need no longer be humble about my feelings and wonder "what if....what would I think THEN?" The "what if" has arrived.
SoCalLisa - I love your balloons. They symbolize that strange freedom of the soul.
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Sunflowers said: Please remember how recent your diagnosis is... And I do appriciate that. Really I do.
In a way that's part of what's freaking me out. I found the lump in Aug. 2010. I went right to the gp. He said yes it needed checked out. Sent me in for a Mamogram. They did that and an ultrasound and said "Scar tissue. Nothing to worry about. Move along." OK. Not worried. Everything is fine. They told me so.
When they looked again last month it was "OMG why didn't you come in sooner. .." I did! Oh. Well, um ..
So I'm having some difficulty with "Everything is fine. Don't worry. " this time around. I am very grateful that this seems to be a very slow growing cancer, but the radiologist was able to show me where the primary tumor had grown and it's two evil little friends. To make things harder, it's obvious to me that the radiologist I dealt with this time would have done a biopsy in 2010 if I'd encountered him then.
And yes 1Athena1 everything is different when viewed through the lens of cancer. I am really optimistic, but I'm taking everything with a real grain of salt.
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Athena, I read your post and then just started cackling, but in a kind of strangled way. What kind of a messed-up evil thing would purposefully do this?
I don't even mean my own cancer. I have never worried about what in the realm of sins I did to deserve this (do worry some about what I particular carcinogens are still lurking in my personal environment), but I have wondered how anybody could believe that what happens to kids is the result of something's divine plan. I am in a medical field and had such a hard time getting through any part of training that involved kids. The horror and suffering was unbearable. Little, little kids with such pain, loss and fear.
And what about Tsunamis, the Battle of the Somme.
If I believed in a God, I'd be really, really scared. Which would be worse, something purposefully but randomly malevolent, or something simply unaware or uncaring of the results of its actions? Because it just seems to me, if you believe something is consciously involved, it's got to be one or the other.
Cindy, I had a huge problem with people telling me I'd be fine. The thing is, a lot of them just don't know what to say. Breast cancer has been so pink-washed and I think people just want it to be true so they say it. I wouldn't myself feel grateful to have any kind of tumor.
Are you outside the US?
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Cindyl,
You must be very frustrated by the fact that the doctor missed the cancer on the sonogram. I know I am because my doctor missed mine on the sonogram. If either doctor had better technique or had paid closer attention the sonogram would have picked up my cancer much sooner as well.
I have now gotten over my frustration by remembering the wise old phrase, "Sh*t Happens".
May you have serenity return.
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Aaaaaeeeyyyyyy... Cindy - NOW I UNDERSTAND SO MUCH MORE....you have the RESIDUAL fear of those JERKS ( thinking worse, but don't wanna get banned from posting) who blew you off the first time! Whew. I don't know how I'd be able to "TRUST" another doctor after that - so ou are doing YEOMAN'S WORK moving forward with what you're dealing with now.
AND, you have been , well, hard to say this, but "fortunate" - yes it's a Grade 3, AND YOU ARE NODE NEGATIVE. YEAH! It's the most "usual" kind of bc ( supposedly 80% of us get IDC), so KNOWN, and TREATABLE. Her2NU - ANOTHER good thing! E+, well, welcome to the AI SE threads started by Lowrider. I'm in my 5th year of Arimidex ( I call it being on the A Team) - lots of great advice of how to deal with SE's.
SO, given you're experience - you gotta be EXTRA, EXTRA ( times many) gentle with yourself. Maybe you could write "GOOD ENOUGH" on an index card & carry it with you....serously
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Notself - yes, SH*T hppens. Sometimes good sh*t , as when for instance I popped into the airport book store on our way out and there it was - Mindfulness in Plain English by Bhante Gunaratana and he is plain indeed and I'm finally getting the message! Turks & Caicos awesome but this was on of the biggest perks.
and on my return, gthere at the library on interloan were The Art of Dying, The Ever-Transcending Spirit, The Myth of the Great Ending, and the Snow Leopard - all recommended by people on this thread. thank you all - don't know how I'll do it - read, read, read, but trouble is there's so much else to do - like be outside cleaning the yard, picking up branches, having a fire, while the daffodils bdgin to bloom. Thanks to all who mention their reading. I have to laugh every time I remember Charles' quote we're talking monkeys on a.......piece of recycled stardust?hahaha... anyway....we still hurt, and want to help ourselves and others feel better. so I'm finally - how many prods, kicks in the butt des it take? setting up a little meditation spot in my otherwise crammed-full big old messy house.
Have a lovely spring day all.
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Flannel - many have said it in many ways "when the student is ready, the teacher arrives."
I call it Book Karma....thanks for sharing yours. Makes me smile....I have a favorite Peanuts cartoon, from 1979 ( a small copy is in my day book, moved to a new one every year) Woodstock flies down to Snoopy's dog house roof and Snoopy tells him he's supposed to be out on a branch chirping, people like to hear birds chirping when they wake up, so Woodstock goes to a branch "chirp" and comes back to Snoopy, who says, YOU ONLY CHIRPED ONCE, you can't brighten someone's day with ONE CHIRP. So, Woodstock goes back to the branch "Chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp." And comes back to Snoopy, who says, there now, didn't that give you a real feeling of satisfaction? The bad news is you're supposed to do that every morning for the rest of your life.
We get to recreate it every day, or not. On the AI SE thread, ruthbru quotes something Michael J, Fox tells his kids "when you go out every morning, choose happiness" ( paraphrased, I just read the thread & already forgot the exact words....)
OOPS..flannel - edited to correct Si to AI ( Aromatase inhibitors) sorry......
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