Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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CLC,
I agree. Buddhists can be as dogmatic as anyone even though the Buddha didn't expect everyone to believe in every teaching. His closest follower didn't believe in rebirth. One can't stop some people from fundementalism because above all their brains need certainty.
In my opinion only thing truly required by Buddhist teaching is unrestricted kindness towards all living beings. Everything else is commentary.
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I loved being in the temple. I loved meditating there. Frequently when I meditated there, alone, I felt acutely connected to the universe and everyone and everything around me. Like a tingly all alive feeling. A sense of complete compassion, connection with everything. But, I guess I have a personality failing...once one of the nuns started proslethyzing (sp?) about needing to accept reincarnation, I lost all feeling of being at peace there. Oh well.
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The nun was wrong or she was expressing herself poorly. One doesn't accept the truth of a teaching, one realizes it. One can know how to ride a bicycle by reading instructions, but one realizes how to ride a bike by actual practice.
According to the suttas, skeptical doubt is not eliminated until one reaches the first stages of enlightenment. Skeptical doubt is not a sin, it is a mental condition that changes through analysis and meditation on the way reality works.
Enough about Buddhism, there is a separate thread on it.
I have often wondered if the polls describing atheists as being only 5% of Americans are skewed by the way the question is worded? Most surveys equate a belief in a universal spirit/consciousness as a belief in god. Of course nothing could be more different that belief that the universe is conscious v belief in an male deity that controls people and things.
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Yes...I understand that she herself failed to understand buddhism. So frustrating that I cannot move past that experience to enjoy the temple again. But, fundamentalism and dogmatic acceptance of nonsense is abhorrent to me. Too bad, seems so unbuddhist of me to let that stop me... But, you are right, enough about that...0
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Loving this thread. Just finished a task I abhor but had to get done, so needed something altogether different. Sat down and here it was. Female mystics of the middle ages from a feminist point of view...now that turns my crank. Zen sounds good, but very difficult. I don't believe there is much dogma there. Can't be.
There's a book I read a while back, that I mentioned here, but it was like a year ago, and I think it was written by a surgeon. He had spent time in the far north, and had met shamans. One had told him - I have been out on the ice, in the dark, so far, and what I heard was the universe calling me, as a mother calls her child. Darned if I can remember the author or name of the book, would so love to read it again.
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noteself - I'm a bit confused, isn't a belief in "a universal spirit/consciousness" a belief in god? Just because it's not the male diety that most organized religions believe in it's still a god. And one who beleives in it isn't really an atheist in my thinking. What have I missed? I'm not trying to pick a fight, just wanting clarification. Thanks.
For me, my atheism is a belief that there's nothing out there controling the universe or watching over us and nothing/noone who caused it to begin either. I guess you could say that Physics/science is my religion.
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Believing in a universal spirit/consciousness as I understand those who do, indicates that the universe itself has qualities of life. If my understanding is correct, this living universe does not require worship, determine one's fate, or proclaim dogma. The god of western belief requires all of these things and is separate from the universe it created. A universal spirit/consciousness is one with the universe not separate from it.
My point is that questions on belief in god should first begin by defining what is meant by god. If that definition described god in the Abrahamic sense of the word, the survey would find that a percentage of people who did not believe in an Abrahamic god is much larger than 5%.
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I've just discovered this thread... not sure why it took me so long. Great to see some ladies I already 'know'... CookieMonster, Scorchy, Bev - hi !
I was brought up a Catholic... until I was old enough to make my own mind up. And dropped that label like a hot potato. I found it all too hypocritical. Seemed to me that you could do all you wanted to as long as you went to confession all would be OK... just not for me.
I respect that others to believe in a "god" as long as they respect my wishes not to worship anyone... I choose not to. I am quite a spiritual person, but do not believe in anything/one inparticular.
So nice to find ladies who are open-minded to this.
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Hi Tazzy!
Thanks for the clarification noteself - clarification about definitions in so much of what we do is important and I so tire of hearing people argue about what amounts to semantics instead of about substance. It's nice to have a discussion about definitions and to be able to clarify our points of view.
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Hiya Tazzy!! So nice to see you here too.... I was thinking about this conversation on Buddhism.... Too much for me. I grew up Jewish although very reformed and almost totally non observant. My husband grew up Catholic like you, Tazz, and his experience of 12 years of catholic education was enough to turn him off to it forever. While Buddhism seems better than some other religions, it is still organized and I don't need that. I believe most strongly in science and nature... It took me a long time to come to the conclusion that this is all there is so we should make the most of it. If ther was a god, would there be so many different religions? Wouldn't he be good enough to give us just one so we could all agree and not kill each other in his name based on how we interpret it??? We are born and we believe in what our parents tell us to believe in until we develop a mind of our own. Hence, if you told your kids the easter bunny was a diety, would they not believe you ? Is it that much different than a man in the sky who had a baby with a virgin and then that baby grows up to be killed and resurected so you could be forgiven everything and go to a really pleasant place in the sky to live with them?? Oy freakin' vey..... Just one of the many fairy tales that have unfortunately stuck.
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Notself: thanks much. So glad you're reading The Boob. You folks are giving me renewed purpose.
When I first came to NYC for my job at a major research university, the Dalai Lama was a featured speaker. The event was taking place just outside my office and I wanted to peek in to see what this man was like.
The presence of love that radiated from this man took me by surprise. His warmth and generosity was captivating and I hung on every word. It was an experience unlike any other. Something I will never forget any time soon.
The man walks the walk. Nothing fake there.
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Bev - I couldn't agree more with what you said. The only reason I think I would lean towards Buddhism is because of its calmness and peace. Quite a combination with you and your DH - Jewish & Catholic ?!
Scorchy... I think you are so lucky to hear the Dalai Lama speak. I saw him once in Vancouver - not to speak unfortunately, but just his presence was so serene and peaceful.
I am saddened by the atrocities of man in the name of religion. I asked a friend once why he still believed in God... his answer "Because I am too afraid not to.. supposing we do burn in hell... blah blah!". I was really shocked in a way because he was one of the most intelligent people I know. I will take my chance that wont happen
. Each to their own I guess.At the moment my only faith is in myself, DH and family - that is all I need. Just be kind to each other.
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flannelette..."now that turns my crank" just makes me smile. What a phrase!!! It was really a take on women gaining power within the misogynistic and patriarchal constructs of society. The young nuns with the stigmata and their visions and their rise within their communities as a result. The inquisition checking to make sure these things weren't faked, or worse, weren't the work of the devil. My own reading of all of that, with the certainty that the stigmata clearly were self-imposed. Wondering if the girls were delusional and cut themselves, or if they did it calculatingly. All very interesting. Something like women that end up snapping and killing their abusive husbands, or taking drugs to get through prostituting... But the response of the controlling powers was what was really fascinating from a feminist perspective. It is so comparable to what the controlling powers do today. First, try to paint the offending woman as criminal or crazy. If that fails, incorporate her into your construct in a way that you retain power. Dangerous business for the inquisitorial priests, or whatever they were called, and very very dangerous business for the young mystic women. After reading some of the accounts, I decided that some of the women genuinely believed they were conversing with god. Others were calculatingly faking it. I guess I can paint them both as crazy and desperate. But on the subject of desperate women, there are many of those. Did you hear about the Iranian woman who beat up a cleric after he harassed her about her immodest dress? (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/20/161463174/cover-your-eyes-iranian-woman-tells-chastising-cleric-before-beating-him-up) Phew. I think it is clear that one of the first victims of religion is almost always women.0
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I'm an atheist , when I was young I desperately wanted to believe there was some one/thing that cared about me and would protect me. By the age of nine I knew better.
No god gave ne cancer no godis going to wave amagic wand and cure me.
I have serious concerns about the mental health of some of the woman here.
Their god loved them so much he gave them cancer to help them become the person they were born to be,or to slow them down so there is time to watch daisys grow.
Me -I had bad luck to bet cancer and worst luckto get meds. No fault -no blame just sh*t happens.
Harvey
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I don't want to second guess anyone else's way of getting through this horrible disease. If religion helps, then great. As an atheist, it obviously does nothing for me, but there are many many women who find peace and strength in their religious beliefs. Who is to say that is bad? What stinks is when people push those ideas on atheists as an attempt to belittle our own experience and feelings or an attempt to deal with their own feelings about our experience.
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You've all been busy...thanks for v interesting and amusing posts..like Bev we are a mixed household of Jewish (my DH) and Catholic (me), both non-believers. It's not such an odd combination culturally...if my mother-in-law wasn't such a Jewish mother, she'd be the perfect example of a Mediterranean Catholic one... acting as the 'headquarters' of the extended family, knowing everyone's movements, spoiling the children and convinced that we'd all starve to death if we had to skip a meal for any reason, so always ready to make huge parcels of sandwiches 'just in case'.
Scorchy I LOVE your blog, thankyou, it's witty and sarcastic, informative and funny, emotional and moving all t the same time..I've just recommended it on another thread, so keep at it!!!
Although I don't like to condone violence I couldn't help cheering when I read about that Iranian woman kicking the cleric for telling her to cover her face.. women are treated as second class citizens in all the major religions... no way priests or imams will willingly surrender their power and control...
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I'm a Unitarian Universalist atheist (an acceptable variation). I actually quit my congregation after 25 years because it was sliding down the slope from humanism to deism, but I came back just to sing in the choir. I don't need a group activity to support my disbelief, but I really missed the singing, even if I didn't always agree with the text.
I like harvey's philosophy: "No fault -no blame just sh*t happens." I might phrase it a bit differently. Many long years ago I was teaching Physics for Non-Scientists (aka Physics for Poets) at Hunter College and came across a question in a gas law unit test asking students to explain why the pressure measured in a tire increased after driving on a hot day. One of the multiple choice answers was "Nature is capricious and absurd." That still makes as much sense to me as anything I learned in Catholic school.
Janet
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I quit UU as well. Even though the group was at one time 50% atheist, the theists ran the show and made anyone who disagreed with them feel unwelcome. Then they would have meetings about how to increase membership. Go figure.
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Hey, folks, I haven't been here for quite a while. My time at BCO is winding down as I get busy in other aspects of my life, but there are a few threads that I still enjoy. This is one.
Somewhere, maybe FB, I came across a quote by a Bishop John Shelby Spong, and it intrigued me. I found some info on him, quite the prolific writer, and now I am immersed in an audiobook by him Jesus for the Non-Religious: Recovering the Devine at the Heart of the Human. Spong is an amazing historian, and he delves into the myths of the Bible that are at the core of all Christian thought. He's a devout Christian himself, a "progressive" if you will, whose life work has been to seek to know Jesus the man. I'm just on the first CD in the batch, and I am learning about how Matthew took from the Moses story to create the Jesus birth story, as well as how science simply cannot back up the story of wandering stars, etc. Fabulous read to reinforce my beliefs that Jesus was a man, not a god, and a teacher.
I love the history and philosophies of religion, not the dogma. Bishop Spong seems to be of the same mind.
I have UU ties, though am far too lazy to give up my Sunday mornings for a church, even if full of like-minded atheist thinkers! So I'll read instead!
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Anne, that sounds like a good read. I have Spong's "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism." I think I'll pull it off the shelf and see how it does with a re-reading.
I have missed seeing you around here but I'm glad to hear you're caught up in life. Enjoy.
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AnnW
Hope your Pilates is going well. I've read John Shelby Spong for years, heard his speak several times, really a fascinating man. I haven't read his work in a long, long time, but you've inspired me to pick up some of his latest books.
I too have really cut back on BCO, don't like what's happening on most of the board, but this is one of the 3 threads I try to keep up with.
All good wishes on your new busier days.....
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I also got his book "Re-Claiming the Bible for a Non-Religious World" that I'll delve into later. I keep forging a spiritual path where things are interconnected.
Pilates teacher training is going well. It's difficult physically right now because we're doing lots of things that bother my hips. I hoped this intense training would help them, but there's no helping probably until I get surgery. And I'm not too ready for that. I probably had dyspasia from birth but no one paid attention to that in the 50s. I'm paying for it now. Other that the hips, though, my body has responded in every other way I have asked it to--like draping backwards over a barrel and lifting my legs up, getting into funky upside down positions on the Trapeze Table, and so on. But the hips are being stubborn. MRI later this week will tell me more.
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No, I'd never heard of Spong, so thanks for that reference, and neither had I heard of American writer Natalie Goldberg, when I came across the quotation I hope I managed to print below. I looked her up and she sounds really interesting; she writes about the process of writing, from what I think is a kind of Zen perspective, as well as poems and novels..probably going to order Kindle version of Banana Rose. Since many of you are great readers can I have some feedback?0
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No, nothing came up under my posting (where many of you include clever/appealing/meaningful quotations, etc..I tried typing wordsin my 'biography' section, but apparently not! Anyway, this is what I wanted to quote:
Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make a life so, right in the middle of it we die, lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.
Quite apt for all of us here I think!
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Just testing...ah yes it worked...quite an apt saying for all of us here I think!
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Natalie Goldberg's first book Writing Down the Bones - was spectacularly successful - I LOVED her first "autobiograpy" and also one she published on her ART WORK - truly a multidimensional woman..
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Thanks for recommendation Sunflowers...will probably try autobiography first.
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Yo! kindred spirits! I've just finished reading Wheat Belly and am up for your input, especially want to hear from sunflowers as she's been teling us for ages to cut out the gluten - or is it wheat? Ok - can cut out wheat as it's the worst - but - what about this: organic spelt with wild rice bread? I know, still some gluten. I'm a confirmed bread junkie with lots of visceral fat, yo-yo blood sugar levels, and and arthritis (inflammation) sunflowers - here's a good chance to tell us yet again and this time I'm getting ready to believe it.
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Who's the author of Wheat Belly? I could switch to corn tortillas for my bread.
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flannellette, I know you were asking Sunflowers but I also have had wonderful results from giving up gluten. I gave up wheat and gluten almost two years ago. It has made an amazing change in my life.
But I had digestive issues, and very well may have Celiac Disease as there is some in my family. At the time I didn't think giving up wheat and gluten would be the answer and now if I wanted to be tested I would have to go back to eating gluten containing foods for a month or so which I am unwilling to do.
I woke up every morning feeling pretty well. After eating my whole grain breakfast cereal or yogurt with Grape Nuts added I would start feeling unwell. At lunch time I would feel full but force myself to eat and dinner was the same way. After dinner I would be bloated and in pain, truly looked nine months pregnant, and I am naturally thin and was in severe pain. I also had bowel issues.
The interesting thing is not only did my digestive issues clear up but my psoriatic arthritis and psoriasis improved. I have accidentally gotten sick from cross contamination since giving up gluten and have become almost paranoid about not eating any processed food without thoroughly researching it and being very careful about what and how I order things in restaurants. In my case eating anything with spelt (which is still wheat) would make me very ill. If you don't have a true gluten intolerance or severe sensitivity it might be ok for you.
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