Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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EWB...generally I honour Mother Earth and all of her gifts to us...! I honour Kwan-Yin - Goddess of compassion, Hestia - Goddess of the Hearth, among others.
Peggy
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where do you find info about all this? is this part of group or what you have come upon in your journey and accept?
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Do any of you read Garrison Keillor's weekly article? Here's this week's, where even he, a good Lutheran man, mentions Christmas as a substitution for Saturnalia. It's in the second to last paragraph.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/keillor/2008/12/10/new_york_christmas/
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Good point Emma! One of our radio commentators was wishing his listeners "Happy Saternalia" the other night! The ancient Romans used to begin their winter solstice celebrations on about December 17 which culminated in the solstice around Dec 25. I think they also worshipped Mithra, the ancient Persian god of light as they welcomed the sun back.
Most researchers seem to agree that Christ was born in September or October.
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I enjoyed Garrison Keillor's article - very dry and witty.
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Geebung - it's funny that you called me "emma." One of my sons asked me about my screen (and email) name, thinking it was Anal Emma. I am anal about some things, but my name's not Emma, it's Brenda. The picture in my avatar is of the sun's analemma in relation to the earth, as it changes its relative position throughout the year. Right now, near the Winter Solstice, it's near the bottom of the loop, and will soon start to climb up again. It's a little tricky concept to grasp, but once you get it, it's way cool to imagine how the ancients must have thought about the universe as they looked up at the sky and watched the constellations and the sun move throughout the year.
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Sorry about that Brenda. Had to laugh at your son's comment! (I had an avatar once - it was Thelmadog because I had a dog called Thelma. Then somebody commented that it looked like The Mad Dog!) Interesting about the analemma. I was actually wondering what their thoughts were on the sun's movement. I must google analemma and read up on it.
gb
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Love the pics of flowers, Lisa. Thank you!
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Some of my favorite religious stories grew out of fooling the christians who tried to convert the "pagans." For some south american religions, they just substituted the names of christian saints for the gods they traditionally worshiped. They never gave up their beliefs, they merely hid them under the cloak of christianity.
People have been trying to pass for what they are not for centuries now. Maybe one day that won't be necessary any more.
As for christmas - normally I resent it - being a jewish non-believer instead of a christian one. On Fridays, I've been working in a museum - as I was coming in this morning I saw that the museum store has this wonderful wooden christmas tree - two pieces of wood that fit together like a wooden puzzle. If I buy one, I'll paint it with pagan symbols - a good way to combine traditions.
So ok Wiccan sisters - what symbols represent this time of year?
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I don't know Wiccan anything, but I do know cookies!
Ranger cookies - done.
Snickerdoodles - done.
British shortbread - about to start!
Something chocolate - haven't decided yet. Any suggestions?
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I've never found a cookie that does chocolate justice. But brownies? YES
Funny how a thread on atheism tends to gravitate towards alternative spirituality. It would appear that few settle into absolute atheism. We all seem to long for some sort of spiritual connection and at least a vague sense of a greater power or purpose. It's part of our nature.
I've always found the pagan/earth/nature based religions fascinating, but have only integrated bits into my own lifestyle. All cultures who experience major seasonal change developed rituals around those changes. It's quite amazing.
Interesting discussion. Thanks!
Judie
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Madalyn, that looks pretty good. I was also thinking of baking a brownie in a sheet pan, then putting a layer of mint frosting, tinted green, then a layer of melted chocolate over that. Cutting into little bites and serve in tiny cupcake paper liners. It would be an experiment.
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So I want to know what a Ranger cookie is. Analemma, could you post a recipe, pretty please?
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Ranger Cookies
1 c. shortening
1c granulated sugar
1 c. brown sugar, packed
Cream thoroughly, then add 1 teaspoon vanilla and two eggs while beating.
Next dry ingredients - sift together, and add to creamed mixture, beat or stir to combine:
2 c. flour
1/2 teaspoon baking powder
1 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt
Then, the additions, mix together, and then stir in:
1 cup grated coconut
2 cups corn flakes
2 cups quick oats
2 cups chopped dates
Drop by teaspoonfuls on greased sheets, bake 12-15 minutes at 375. (It has never taken more than 12 for me.)
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Hello all from the frozen tundra of Minnesota - lurking again to try to pick myself up from the funk I'm in. Exhausted from radiation and the medical bills have started coming in...I know we'll get through it intact as my family has been spared so far the impact of the current US economic situation but oh my - not only is this disease an emotional trauma, it's damn expensive to treat.
This discussion is fascinating and Brenda, thank you so much for sharing all the information you have. I knew that many Christian traditions were based on seasonally significant events, but didn't know to what extent. It's kind of annoying to have everything celebrated for earthly/celestial reasons (if you will) get hijacked and suddenly, it's all about the particular religion that hijacked it...But then, I may just be easily annoyed tonight in addition to weepy and tired.
Note to all those keeping track of other gods and any karma or lack thereof affiliated with said...I have the worst equipment god known to the universe...People at work will go to a different copier if they see me heading towards one...I've blown out 3 mother boards (sounds dirty but its not - it's an important part of the inside of a computer, as I'm told by my IT guy) in the last year by simply inserting my jump drive and last week, the equipment broke down at radiation. Sigh...I half-jokingly apologized to the crew explaining that it was likely me and my tendency to push anything having a little mechanical trouble right over the edge by simply laying down on the cold, hard, skinny table and putting my arms above my head...They all found me quite funny but just wait, they don't know how serious this really is and I'm not done there until January 22, 2009. This could get ugly for radiation oncology! ;-)
Joan
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Joan, probably you also have a touch of Seasonal Affective Disorder, especially being in Minnesota. I find it so hard to cope with the darkness this time of year, and as soon as it starts getting a bit brighter my mood follows. I guess that's one of the reasons I'm a bit obsessed with the seasonal festivals, because the sun affects me so much. I truly find Winter Solstice a reason to celebrate!
The bills, yes, even with good insurance, can be devastating. We just enrolled for next year and the deductible is $500 per person, and the coinsurance $3000 per year, plus the employer portion of the premium is $260 per month, plus dr. visit co-pays, prescription co-pays. All together that's close to seven grand out of pocket for the year, but I feel lucky to have insurance with a Stage IV diagnosis. There would be no way that a private insurer would cover me if it weren't already in effect.
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Happy Solstice! Here's a song my DIL sent me, sung to the tune of "O Little Town of Bethlehem."
O shining star of solstice time,
Your radiant hours are few.
You turn and strike the News Year's chime -
We owe our lives to you.
These darkest days of winter,
We miss your warming rays;
But every year this hemisphere
Returns to brighter days.
Since olden days the human race
Has feared your warmth would die.
The evergreen is ever seen
As hope we will survive.
O' ancient drums stop beating,
AS superstitions fall!
It's time for Reason's Greetings,
For peace, goodwill to all.
Lyrics by Dan Barker © 1987
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Analemma, thank you so much for posting the recipe for the ranger cookies. Also, I love the Solstice carol!
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Brenda, thanks so much for sharing the Winter Soltice carol. It's really quite lovely and I'm thinking I should use it in some fashion next year in my yuletide messages to people. I especially love the substitution of "Reason's Greetings" for "Season's Greetings."
I know you are facing some challenges this year, but I hope it will be a good year for you nonetheless, and I hope it will be a good year for the old US of A too what with the promising change of administrations.
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Me again. I got to reviewing this thread's previous pages to find some of the "recommended reading" posted by our participants. I have summarized these below as my Happy New Year's present to you all. Please forgive any omissions, botched URL's or mis-spellings of author's names. My heart was in the right place. We need to be educated if we are to confront and argue our non-beliefs persuasively to the Christian Majority in this country. In no particular order:
Recommended Reading for Infidels and Pagans
Books:
The Pagan Christ by Tom Harper, retired Anglican priest--examines similarities between Christ story and Egyption myth
Godless in America by George Ricker
The God Delusion by Oxford prof Richard Dawkins--argument for the improbability of God and a send-up of religions of every stripe.
Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris
The Age of American Unreason by Susan Jacoby
Feng Shui Your Life by Jayme Barrel (or Barret?)--about pink light meditation
Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman--Brenda suggests googling his name for excellent interviews about this and his other book as the book itself is good, but rather redundant
The Russian Debutante's Handbook and Absurdistan --fiction by Russian emigre writer Gary Shteyngart--irreverent takes on post communist Russia, New York and eastern Europe
Any fiction by Pulitzer Prize winning author Michael Chabon
Web Sites & Other:
About Winter Solstice:
http://www.candlegrove.com/solstice.html
http://landscaping.about.com/cs/winterlandscaping1/a/holly-trees.htm
London bus advertisement:
http//www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/s008/Oct/21/religion-advertising
Astronomy-Hubble image:
http://www.rense.com/general/72/size.htm:
http//www.youtube.com/watch?u=fdVucvo-KDV# --not sure just what it is?
www.godlessinamerica.com --author George Ricker's web-site, with blog and unpublished play
google name "Paul Kurtz" from Center for Inquiry for interesting articles about how god belief is not essential to morality
www.pharyngula.com --biologist PJ Meyer's ongoing and prolific blog, mainly aimed at Intelligent Design and Creationism, with innumerable links to other interesting stuff
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Hi back at you. Hope all you guys are doing as well as can beexpected.
In 15 days, I will officially be retired. The following week I have my 3 month checkup with the onc. Predicting good news (i.e. no news), that afternoon I'm starting out on a cross country drive. Can't wait!!!
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slorotz- Thank you for the list!
Guitargrl- good thoughts about retirement and 3 month chkup--enjoy the trip!
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GG -- Congrats on doing the retirement thing! I did it almost 5 years ago (we called it Freedom 55!) and it was wonderful to get away from the pressures and stress. Hope you have a safe and pleasant journey across the country, and no news at the onc's.
Madalyn -- yes, I noted the President's inclusion of non-believers in his address -- good for him! Another first, I think.
Sandra -- how is the violin coming along?
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OK susan,..how many minutes??
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21600
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Sandra, thanks for the summary. Madalyn, yes!!! Center for Inquiry put out a press release commending the President for acknowledging this group of patriotic Americans.
As for me, Madalyn, I got good news yesterday from my scan. Everything is still stable, and I've been off chemo since last May. The plan had been to start chemo again in late January, but after the scan results yesterday, the onc says we will wait and watch. So, another reprieve. Life is good!
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Congrats Analemma!
I know you're waiting with bated breath, guitarGrl! We don't want you to hold your breath for 21600 minutes though.
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Phew, Analemma, that's a relief. I have been thinking about you a lot (even if I haven't been praying). This is very good news.
Guitargirl--I so know what you are going through. I retired from my job a year ago September. That last 3 months just seemed to creep by SO slowly. I was down to counting the minutes too. Retirement is so great, but like everyone else, I have no idea how I managed to do everything before AND work 8 hours a day AND spend 2 hours a day commuting. Sheesh!
Lindasa--I can't seem to get into a regular practice groove with the violin lately. I was doing great for about 3 months, and then I started the gym-exercise stuff, and now the violin has gone by the wayside. I get discouraged with it every so often, but I'm going to start with a new teacher in March, so hopefully I'll get back into it and start making some progress again.
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Analemma - great news.
sloritz - don't force the violin - it'll come back when it wants to. I hadn't played my guitar for over a year, then all of a sudden I wanted to play again. You never know what the inspiration will be - think of Itzhak Perlman playing "Tis the gift to be simple." If I was a violinist, that would get me to playing again!
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DO NOT GO TO THE WEBSITE LISTED BY lina85. IT IS SPAM.
We've had a number of newly registered members over the past few days who are sending women to these same spam websites. The websites are useless - just a list of other websites - and the sole purpose is to get us there so that we can be sent cookies and so that "lina" (whoever he really is) gets paid for each "click" on the site.
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