Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Hi Santabarbarian--my DH and I had a brief trip and weather was chilly, but we had time to see art museum and Natural History museum and enjoy a beach walk. Lovely area, and we'll get back there sometime.
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Some friends and I are planning a few days get away in Santa Barbara. As we are coming from different places may meet somewhere central and take the Amtrak. I love trains and when travelling where they are readily available, always take advantage.
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Just attended a Conference here
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SoCal-beautiful. What kind of confetence?
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Where is this? It's gorgeous!
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Colonial Dames XVII CENTURY
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SoCal...just looked that up. You come from a long line on this soil.
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socal-That is fantastic. Did you grow up knowing of your lineage?
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I figured it all out when I was doing chemo in 2001 and then had to prove it all. I had some knowledge that a distant aunt was in DAR. But 5 ancestors came over on the Mayflower.
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I have Mayflower ancestors, & I also descend from Dutch West India Company (1624) settlers-- both on my Dad's side. So Cal Lisa, we are porbably cousins!
On my mom's side, I'm Scots/English who came more like 1800. My maternal great grandmother did something really cool: she went west in a covered wagon at 16, to teach in a one room schoolhouse in Montana. I have the pocket watch she bought with her first year's pay.
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Santa Barbara, we probably are cousins...smaller world back then...
The biggest problem was getting all the paperwork proof...but I figured out where
to go when I was finished with chemo...all of it was back in the Northeast..
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In todays NY Times, a piece by a woman who was raised Calvinist, left organized religion, and has raised her daughters without the concept of "sin":
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The Comments attached to the article are also spot on. The number of people calling themselves non-religious or nones is growing every year. As an atheist, I have no objection if others want to believe in a god or higher power. It is religion that is a threat to my human rights and I am glad to see it shrinking in numbers. Perhaps it will also start to shrink in power.
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Excellent article - thanks Santabarbarian.
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Excellent article. Thank you so much for sharing that link.
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"Starting with the simple tale of an ant, philosopher Dan Dennett unleashes a devastating salvo of ideas, making a powerful case for the existence of memes -- concepts that are literally alive." https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_dennett_on_dangerous_memes?fbclid=IwAR1h5GKFMY7R0B2_r399ZdIUcEC49-b97wSJXi0irspCE9e75Jqp7PtJx5c
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News snippet from The Week: "Portland, OR's city council unanimously approved an ordinance banning discrimination against atheists and agnostics. 'With this declaration,' said the City Commissioner Amanda Fritz, 'perhaps more nonbelievers will feel less fearful of being themselves in the open.' "
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Found this on Facebook.
"Why Did God Create Atheists?
There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson.
One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?”
The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.”
“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’”
—Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)0 -
Ananda,
I love this! Beautiful!
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That's a great story!! Love it!!
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👍👍
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Ditto. I love that story.
I've been asked in the past "How can you be a good person if you're not a Christian?" To which I replied: "How can you be sure you are a good person, and not just afraid of punishment, if you are a Christian?" Needless to say it did not go over well. I've learned to avoid talking religion with rabid Christians.
Trish
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ananda8 Wonderful; thanks so much for sharing. It's been awhile since I read Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion, but, as I recall, he makes this same point about ethics and morality. He more or less asks: "How 'good' are you if you have to be threatened with fire and brimstone to behave?" A moral compass that points the right direction without threats of hell and promises of heaven seems more truly good.
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I haven't posted to this forum in a while, but I just came across something that has made a transformative impact on me. I was browsing through the Amazon Prime videos and came across a 4 part series called "Inner Worlds, Outer Worlds". I have a science background, having been a biology teacher for 30 years, and this is the first thing that to me bridges the "divide" between physics and (for want of a better word) spirituality. It's main premise is that the physics has confirmed that the universe is mostly made of dark matter and dark energy and these drive its ever increasing speed of expansion. Essentially, the Big Bang has not yet ended. All " normal" matter (read "atoms and sub atomic particles") that exists in "our" universe is an expression of the interaction between and among this dark field. We are a part of that vibratory activity and thus we share in and can tap into that universal source through mediation and quietening the mind. Every spiritual tradition has its own way of accessing that source which is called by a plethora of names Tao, Dharma, Om. I personally prefer "mystery" and that covers all angles, from quantum physics through "God". The exciting part is that it shows there is a demonstrated scientific connection between what we perceive as reality, both external and internal.. I thought this might be something some of you might find interesting and could think of no more appropriate an audience for it. Please let me know any reactions you might have. I love a good discussion. Always welcome, never expected.
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Fiddleman,
I think you make a good point about tapping into a non conventional reality. Meditation can certainly do that. There is a state of consciousness (without words) that can be obtained by intense concentration. The Buddha refers to it as a jhana state. Jill Bolte Taylor describes it beautifully when talking about her stroke. I wouldn't recommend having stroke to reach this state. I have obtained it once while in deep meditation. The talking part of the mind that creates labels and filters and which adds experience and opinion to reality completely shuts down and one experiences a different, but no less true, level of reality. Right vs. Left hemisphere.
https://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight?language=en
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we a programmed to think in terms of beginnings and endings. Maybe the larger picture is endless and always
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Thanks for the interesting links. I look forward to reading the articles / viewing the videos.
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, I think it's a misconception that Christians only aspire to be good because they fear burning in Hell. Rather, the New Testament says that one is saved through grace, not deeds, so kind acts are performed because one is inspired to be a better person, not just because of fear. At least, that's my understanding based on reading during the years I went to Bible study.
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But they're still doing the good deeds for a selfish reason, whether it's to avoid punishment or to get a pat on the head in the afterlife.
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VHL, These quotes from the NT are often used by the "saved" to excuse all sorts of shenanigans. It explains why evangelicals can support politicians who lie, steal and cheat but who profess to being "saved". It is easy for religion to justify any behavior.
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