Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Little G, that's exactly how I have always recharged--being alone with nature, whether in amongst the trees or down by my beloved bay. My feelings are very deep about nature. I have always felt to be an integral part of it and it an integral part of me.
However, anyone that wants to pray, send me good vibes, cast spells...whatever...as long as it's backed with good feelings, I'll take it! My beliefs are somewhat private but they are definitely my own--a huge conglomeration of a lifetime of observations. I have a favorite saying--(one of many favorite sayings!). It's: I am a part of all that I have met. I think that each religion or belief system has some bit of beauty or truth in it and my taking bits and pieces of all the best things will only benefit me.
By the way, as a child, I was raised agnostic but I loved to hear about and take part in every friend's religious practice. I went to many and as long as I felt goodness or beauty then I respected it.
Badboob, I understood what you were saying clearly and I think you were just misunderstood or maybe some people really don't feel open enough to accept whatever others are willing or able to give them.
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What a fabulous moon rise tonight!!!! So clear and bright out!! Go out and take lung fulls of fresh air!!!!! I am going to go walking in the moonlight later and spin around by myself! :-)
g
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Isabella- You certainly got quite the religious education! I will go to sleep with the vision of "bishops spinning in their dresses" dancing in my head. Reminds me- my mom had a friend and her husband over recently- both converts to one of the forms of Tibetan Buddhism- forget which one- but the came in their attire of red and yellow robes with matching wool coats. When they were leaving and the husband was putting on his coat my mom complimented him on how it matched with his "skirt." He was a good sport- said "usually we call it a robe." Sunflowers- thanks for the "hatch, match, and dispatch" description! I know Europeans seem to have separated from organized religion more than Americans have, which is interesting.
BB67- I thnk what really happened was pretty simple and I wish it could be resolved with all bad feelings cleared up. Neither you, dudess, or anyone here needs another thing on our plates. I think we can all agree thank the BC is more than enough. My take on what happened is that you did mean well but accidentally came off as lecturing by giving advice re: how non- religious people like most of us here might recieve offers of prayers and so on. From the start of the thread there has been a strong trend with just about everyone saying "Hey- I'll take whatever I can get- maybe it will work/hope it works" and similar-- I can't speak for everyone here but overall I think most of us don't mind offers of prayers on our behalf and see this exactly as you describe it- as an expression of caring and support- which is only a good thing and a kind thing. So I think what might have happened was that when you said something about praying for people and that dudedess/ others should accept that- it created this dynamic sort of like if you are in the middle of doing something or about to do it and someone comes along and tells you to do it it creates this reaction/puts one on the defensive. I hope this is coherent- I'm a bit beat and a little unfocused and this is a tough topic but also I think a good one in the sense that in this forum, not just this thread, we all have a lot on our plates, all feel very vulnerable at times, and there is a lot of opportunity to give each other feedback and advice- both of which can get very tricky. It's easy to step on each others toes and easy to hurt each other without meaning to- we don't know one another- we're interacting in cyberspace and so can't see one anothers reactions and temper our input accordingly. It's an awful feeling to feel like you've set something off when you did not mean for that to happen. I've done it-not here yet thankfully- but I'm sure I could- certainly have in the "real world" a couple of times at least. I'd like to think that we as a group could get through this and learn from it. I think everyone here has good intentions and that this could happen. Allyson
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Any cat lovers out there? I have two, Rachel and LoMein. LoMein is a male and friendly and trusting. I always worry about stepping on him at night as he'll stretch out anywhere and won't move under any circumstance. Rachel, on the other hand, is very skiddish. My husband was the one who found her (newspaper ad on a store window), and he's her first and only love. The second he goes to bed, she jumps on his chest and stays there so long as he lets her. She tolerates me, but even with Miguel if we come anywhere near her bowl while she's eating, she runs for cover. She's still like this after fifteen years, when all she's ever received from us is absolute love, security, and pampering. When she first arrived she wouldn't eat anything and my husband would take the subway down to China Town to purchase all kinds of fish, anything to tempt her appetite. And now all she eats is dry foot, won't even consider anything else, although recently we've noticed, she at least smells our food. Can she be changing? I'm not complaining about her diet, which is excellent for her health, but find it so strange that she has absolutely no inclination to try other food. If she were human, she'd be one of those very skinny women who eat rye crisps all day. Oh, to be one of those women! LoMein also eats dry food but he still tries to sneak some of our food if we're not looking. The picture with my signature is of LoMein, but I'll probably change it soon and put one up of Rachel. Not nice to play favorites, even if they don't know about it.
So tell me about your pet. I love hearing pet stories.
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As you may be able to tell from the avatar- yes! This cat converted (had typed "coverted" interesting typo! She did that too.) us! My husband found her in our garage on the day of my staging tests in June. She was with 2 sibs and had a young mom that was caring for them irratically. After seeking advice from the vet we took them in at a 1 day old. The sibs were frail and did not make it- although they hung in for a while and we had gotten hopeful- but this kitten Isabella was strong from the get go- got to where she was semi-holding her own bottle like a baby monkey. Here she is in all her feline glory. She's 7 months old now and the most sociable cat I have ever known in my life- one of the family- the dogs love her too.
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Allyson: I second he motion. She looks very very sweet! I'll try to upload something larger of my two cats. You really can't see them in those tiny pictures. I love all cats, but particularly the sociable ones.
Sunflowers: A friend's grandson with allergy problems tolerates her dog very well. I'm not sure of the breed but I'll make inquiries. I can't imagine our lives without our cats. They give us so much pleasure. We don't have a dog because we like to travel to and from Europe. Only two animals can travel in cabin at the same time, so until we give up travelling it's only the two cats. But if ever we decide to stick in one place, I plan to get more cats and at least one dog.
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Sunflowers, love your post "my religion is kindness", and Isabella: nothing to add....
French Catholic upbringuing did it for me... then philosophy classes in school...I think the yearning of mankind for "extraterrestrial" explanations of our fate is fascinating, though, and I read a lot about the history of religions and philosophical essays on those themes, just to try to understand things better.
Wishing you all the best,
Catherine
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Here are larger pictures of LoMein and Rachel. Rachel has an elegant head; LoMein looks like one of those mops you use to apply polyurthene to your floors.
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Madalyn,
We have 2 german shepards, they are beautiful and love to run!! And, our horse is named Snickers! :-) What I did want to say, going back on track to the thread is that when I'm inside, or in my car I find that Celtic music is great to listen too!!! It's so soothing and makes me want to move to Scotland!!
g
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Post deleted, I'm really too spacey today to say anything sensible!
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Love those little fangs Lo Mein is showing- Rachel's sphinx imitation isn't bad either. Catherine- I grew up in a "religion free zone" thanks to my mother's French Catholic upbringing. She actually hid me from a priest who kept stopping by to talk to her about having me baptized. The baptism never happened. Allyson
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I appreciate the openmindedness which has characterized this thread, which I just discovered today. In general, this forum tries to be civil and supportive, and I'm a fan of initially assuming that civility and supportiveness are intended with most posts.
Just had two thoughts to add. I recently had a long discussion on another forum about people expressing that they will pray for someone who is known not to believe in God. The conclusion in that exchange was that it gets annoying and eventually offensive. As a Christian, if someone told me that they were sitting under their pyramid sending positive energy my way, I wouldn't be offended, but I'd think that they were a bit looney. So I certainly understand that someone who does not believe in God might think that I'm a bit of a loon, too!
Ultimately, I think that it doesn't serve much purpose to tell someone who does not share my beliefs that I am praying for them. I agree that in this case, my praying should be done between me and my God, and not advertised to the pray-ee.Second thought about the soothing that we get from nature: An interesting book came out recently about how we need nature, and how the current generation of children is growing up with less and less time spent outside and what the effects of that might be. It is called "Last Child in the Woods: Saving Our Children From Nature-Deficit Disorder" by Richard Louv, if anyone is interested.
I was diagnosed in May, and through the summer, whenever I could, I would just sit in the sun with a book (with appropriate hat and sunscreen, of course!) I just soaked up the feeling of the breezes on my skin and of the heat on my body. I felt starved for something and found peace, a sense of wholeness and of love outside.
Right now my sweet cat, Richard, is helping me to feel loved. I type on my laptop and he curls up on the arm of the couch, hanging over onto my left arm and putting his head on my shoulder. If I ignore him too much, he will reach up with a paw and pat my face! He was my constant companion during chemo and I love his companionship. Here's to cats!
Hope M.
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Hope- thanks for the book recommendation and for your articulately put stance on the "I'm praying for you" issue. To cats and the peace of nature! I will definitely follow up on the book- my kids are grown and had no risk of developing NDD but I'd still like to read it. Allyson.
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I was just telling someone the other night that I need a chemo cat, because I cannot commit to long term. Someone should rent them, or insurance cover them.
My Jack Russel isn't very fond of them. 0 -
sunflowers, I will check out that CD for sure, thank you for sharing! A couple of my favorites are Celtic Odyssey and Celtic Soul. Really great stuff!! I have my witche's calender by my bed, which also goes into the phases of the moon and the tree season. I just came in from outside, wow...what a phenomenal moon rise again!!! You can see the beams thru the clouds and the tall pines look black against it, but the wind is blowing them around. Very beautiful!!!!
g
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Okay- S. I am definitely going to have to look into the CD(s). I remembered on reading these posts just now that I had a vivid dream during the night in which Celtic music figured prominently. I don't think I've ever dreamt of music before. Our billing person at work last night was listening to a CD while she did her thing- asked her what it was- it was very soothing- she said- "Oh..it's some Celtic woman." That's how I heard it. Maybe she was talking about Celtic Woman that you mention Madalyn. I am looking at the morning sky through the trees as I type this- just a hint of red on the horizon- a nuthatch at the feeder, someone else calling- maybe a bluejay. Allyson
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Well its been a waiting game, I go see a new medical oncologist tomorrow. First time I have seen her so I am sure I know more after. I have also been told I need to see a radiation oncologist and she will set me up with one. Waiting for biopsy to come back it was done last Friday, but was told my mri and ct looked good. So so far I know the tumor is 2.5 malignant spread to lymph node under arm, that is bigger then the tumor. I can feel both of them very well, that is how I found them. Was told it is invasive and that I would probably start chemo first before any surgery. That was over a week ago so i am very anxious to go tomorrow. Told my husband last night, just kind of freaked, that I sometimes think I will wake up and none of this will be real. I had so many plans and school I wanted to complete and move out west in a couple years. He told we can still do all those things but first we take care of me. Maybe I have moved from shocked to angry, it is very hard for me to show anger. I had a difficult childhood with sexual abuse and took me years to learn to love my body and now this. I know I did not bring this on and because I do not believe in god it defiantly is not a punishment. I almost feel like I am in a fight with my own body, mind against body(again) maybe that is o.k, just feel it, let it out, go with it, move on. One day at a time! Trying to be strong, positive and loving to everyone who love me. I also think it is starting to sink in on my 14 yr old son. As long as I keep communication open it should be o.k. He laid in my lap last night(as much as he could, he is almost 6 feet and about 180) and I rubed his head like when he was little. We have not done that in years, that moment alone was worth all the tears.
Shelby
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Wow.I just read all the other entries in the list. You sure aren't alone. It's a surprise to see so many women claiming a non-religious status. I too am an atheist. Was diagnosed 3 1/2 years ago with stage IV metastatic breast cancer. The bugger's in a lung and a rib. The good news is I've already outlived the original diagnosis and I'm still going strong. I hope that's some encouragement for you.
I just joined this group because I saw your question and felt compelled to add my voice to the others.
I draw my strength from friends and family, who have been relentless in keeping my spirits up. A most dedicated friend sends me jokes, funny pictures, interesting quotes -- anything to catch my interest and give me that moment of laughter that erases the awareness of the BC. In turn, I work to repay her love and kindness. It's the human bonds that are important. We all need to work on those.
Best thing my family does for me is keep me thinking about the future. My younger brother is particularly good about planning things three to six months off, to give me something positive to work toward.
Even though I don't believe in god, I read constantly about belief and religion, almost as if testing myself. It's good exercise. Just recently read Tom Paine's The Age of Reason. Our Founding Fathers are being made over into sanctimonious prigs and I was sure that couldn't have been their take on religion. It's worth a look at Paine.
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Dear Shelby,
Thanks for starting this thread, and I'm glad you're back and posting again. It helps a lot to talk about BC with others who have gone through the same or similar. This site and others are great for finding information about your cancer pathology, potential treatments, etc., and for just dropping some anxiety from time to time. I'm HER2+ and the HER2 site was invaluable to me in the beginning for understanding my pathology.
You absolutely don't have to give up on school or your dream of moving out west. It's just deferred for a while, and probably a short while. I'd just sold my first book two months before my diagnosis, and I felt devastated, betrayed, and so many other things. I had put off writing until I retired and now I was finally doing what I had always wanted, for more years than I can say, and I had cancer. But it's 18 months later, and the second book is written and out for reviews, and we've recently purchased a house in another state, and I'm feeling quite good, and positive that I have a long life in front of me. Well, twenty years anyway, as I'm already in my 60's. There are many days, and soon it will be weeks and months, that I forget completely about BC.
It's too early for you to know which treatments you'll need, but I had the full range: surgery (lumpectomy, in my case), then chemotherapy, then radiation, and finally, a full year of herceptin (a therapy for HER2+ cancers) and all of them are done and completely forgotten and my body is almost back to where it was. A bit of a dent in my right breast. You may make a different surgical decision than I did, but there are threads on just about every treatment you can have, both on this site and other sites, and support from thousands of women.
To the original topic of this thread, I don't believe in God and have not in a very long time, and at no moment did I ever think to blame myself. My thought was: if 1 in 8 women eventually get BC, why should I not expect to be the eighth. Do the time and then move on was my mantra! Lots of days when it wasn't so easy, but far more when it was. I can't think of anything more futile than blaming oneself for breast cancer, and I recently stopped visiting another website where a large group of women were doing just that, and rather enjoying it I thought.
You have a loving husband, and son, and they'll get you through this. You may even find some women on this site who are going through chemo or radiation at the same time as you are (if these are some of your treatments) with whom you can communicate daily. But if you have any questions about treatments, etc. I'm sure everyone on this thread will help, or at least know where to refer you.
Shelby, so sorry that you have to be here, but thanks again for starting this thread.
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I will thank you
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Very interesting thread! As an ex-Catholic AND ex-Baptist (long story), I think what I don't believe in is organized religion. At least not for me.
However, in some of the reading I've done in the past, one phrase I like to keep in mind -- "It rains on the just and unjust alike." Now, rain can be both good and bad. And I interpret that phrase as "stuff happens" -- good stuff and bad stuff happens to both good and bad people. Like cancer. Some people do everything wrong and remain cancer free until they die at a ripe old age. Other people take extremely good care of their bodies and get hit with it long before their time. Most people fall somewhere in between. And no, life is not fair.
I've enjoyed the cat pictures. If you ever need a pick-me-up, there's a wonderful site called stuffonmycat.com. It's the silliest thing -- people send in pictures of their cats with stuff on them - it's amazing what they will tolerate being piled on them while they sleep!
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Binx, Allyson, and other cat folks. My sister sent me a wildly funny video (wildly funny if you love cats) of cats misbehaving. If you've had your cats since they were kittens, you'll really appreciate it. I can't post it here, I think, but if anyone wants to see it, I'll try to post it on photobucket. Not sure how to do that, but I'll try. My cats are what keep me sane when I have bad moments!
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Shelby,
Sometimes life sends us on journeys we do not want to take. I think that the whole cancer experience brings up issues of control (or lack thereof!), as well as a sense of our own mortality which we usually keep in the background of our daily lives and decisions.
I am a fan of using whatever coping mechanism works for you in order to get through this initial, highly emotional, time. Personally, I like to compartmentalize like Scarlett O'Hara ("I'll think about that tomorrow!") and use a bit of distraction (like watching a comedy, keeping busy, etc.) Others use denial (we all know people like that!) or anger or whatever.
I also had some anger at first. I felt at the time that it wasn't very rational. I would just flare up with resentment when I read stories about other breast cancer patients whose "lives fell apart" when they were diagnosed with their "measly" little tumors (defined as anything smaller than my 8 by 9 cm. tumor). I actually had to stop reading about BC for a while. Now the anger is totally gone, although I know many survivors who experience it for much longer. I think that in those people it must serve some psychological purpose (giving them energy to fight, motivation, etc.)
We all deal with this disease in our own way, and no particular way is "right". But when we are unhappy with how we are dealing with it (not wanting to feel angry, or not wanting to be so obsessed with thoughts of it, or feeling depressed and overwhelmed), then coming here to talk is very helpful. People encourage the discouraged, share their own insights in how to deal with bad feelings, etc.
I'm just rambling on, but wanted to share my thoughts. Cyber hugs to you and to anyone who is still in the treatment mode. It sure does highjack your life! But only for a while. And you do have some power to decide how this unexpected journey in your life path is processed and used for your future.
Hope M.0 -
Shelby- This medium doesn't cut it for what I want to say right now- actually I don't even know what I want to say. I have this image of you there with your son lying in your lap and my vivid recollection of how hard the "waiting game" was on me. Feeling like my body had turned against me, wishing I could just wake up and it wouldn't be real, feeling like my life was unraveling. This has gotten a lot better now that I am on the other side of treatment. My children (son 25 and daughter 29) were a huge help to me in getting through this. One of the best things anyone did for me was when my son got me to go on a bike ride with him about 3 weeks after my surgery when I was still really struggling with fear, anger, feeling a little frail etc. We're both pretty powerful bikers- something we've shared since he was a teen- and we went on this 10 mile ride of rolling hills and fields that reconnected me with my physical power and my sense of myself as a strong person. I kept my bike in the dining room the entire time I was going through treatment to remind myself of this. Didn't always help but sometimes did. One of the pluses or "consolation prizes" of the bc is that it has brought my son and I closer, and there have been a few times that he seemed to know just what I needed in the moment and I am very grateful for that. Allyson
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Shelby,
Thanks so much for starting this post. I think you were very brave to firmly state your view.
I am culturally Catholic, live in the Bible belt and find that Joseph Campbell's THE POWER OF MYTH rings more true for me than anything.
I am not an atheist. I believe that the divine dwells within all. But I am first and foremost a practical woman who believes in the power of friendship and the love of family.
I offer friendship.
Casey
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anneshirley - your cats keep you sane? How would you like another - 14 pounds of klutzy brown fur who just can't seem to understand what OUCH means.
Just kidding - wouldn't trade him for anything - especially right now that he is asleep somewhere not on my body.
As my cousin reminded me today, I've been through a lot of bad things in my life and survived - this is just one more thing. Getting to do it with like-minded people is even better. Please keep this thread going.
Susan0 -
Wonderful, both of them! After watching the first, I took it into my husband and said, are you really sure you don't want more. He's softening.
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Madalyn -
what do you mean "in the good old days?" I'm still dealing with the blisters ...
Susan0 -
My Unitarian women's group is discussing Atheism next month, and while I was surfing the web for info I came on this short play.
http://www.godlessinamerica.com/Lastrite.html
It's about an old man who is dying and his religious daughter brings in the Baptist minister to try to convert him. It's very articulate in talking about the atheist philosophy. And the old guy has the same plans as me for his last rites.
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Thanks, Madalyn. I don't know where that came from, I just copied and pasted!
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