Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Madalyn--And more fun, although some times my husband and I joke with each other, tryng to decide how our cats would vote if they were human, particularly during debate season. We decided that LoMein, the male, from upstate New York, would vote Republican, and Rachel, from Greenpoint in Brooklyn, where the artists hang out, would vote Democrat. Actually as I watch them both asleep right now, I know they have too much sense to want to be anything but cats.
Allyson--I dread having my tumor markers taken. When i was first diagnosed mine were slightly elevated and they have stayed in the high range. My HER2 marker, also elevated, came down since then, but now I don't even ask what the numbers are. I just hope my doctors check them when the report comes back and will call me if there's a problem. If they've gone up a point or two it will just drive me crazy and for no good reason, since my doctor doesn't order scans for a minor elevation in markers. In the past, I've always wanted to know everything about everything. That's changed a whole lot since my diagnosis.
Susan--I have a somewhat similar story about a friend not understanding cats. We were going away for a week and a friend of my husband's, an artist (perhaps the reason why), agreed to come in and feed the cats. We give them each a garlic pill daily, which they both love. When we got back, Joe told us he put out ten pills, five each, the first day and was surprised when he returned the next day to find that the cats had eaten them all. Absolutely a true story!
Otter--do you think there is a connection? Would we all have been hanged as witches in Salem?
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Lewing- a delayed response to your post. Thank you on the Puerto Rico report - it sounds incredible. Also I totally relate to your description of being aware of the bc all the time. I think the same kinds of thoughts- "They don't know they just honked rudely at someone with cancer..." etc.
Re: the tumor markers- I never expected to have these drawn. I don't have the results and I was thinking of just not calling if they don't call...I mean if they're high they aren't going to just ignore it and tell me at my next visit in June, right? Still having bc mets phobia. The onc palpated my abdomen pretty hard- I think pressed on my liver and seemed satisfied that he couldn't feel anything. Now I swear I can feel a sore area- my liver I think. I have a vague awareness of that area at times anyway and now I am hyper aware-it doesn't hurt really but I feel it somehow. I imagine it will take a bit to sink back into the bliss of temporary denial again...
Susan- I love the non-pastoral visits idea- how about cat visits?
Hope all of you are well- I read and enjoyed all the posts and cat stories but I am too wiped out right now for more writing. Allyson
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Madalyn - I'm not nicer - my backup daycare when I was little was a New York City cab driver. I still drive like him.
This is sick, but after I got over the initial shock of dx my attitude was "oh boy - now I can retire - my money doesn't have to last that long." It wasn't an attitude thing that got me to fight was (chemo wasn't a given with the size of the tumor) I don't want to have to go through this again. Quality of life wins every time.
susan0 -
May I join this thread? I am newly diagnosed and have been searching for a group of women with which to relate.
I was raised Roman Catholic, married into the Episcopal church, and now am (mostly) "out-of-the closet" atheist (as is my husband).
Please check my profile for a little background. I'm going to read through this thread to get to know you all
. Treatment-wise ... I'm just getting started. I had a sentinel node biopsy (positive), with removal of nine additional nodes (2 more positive), and a lumpectomy on February 22. I will have a re-excission on Monday Mar 3 to obtain a clear margin on the anterior portion of the tumor. (They removed a 4cm x 4 cm x 3cm mass initially.)
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Sharon,
Scroll down to the "surgery" topic, and sign in to the "March 2008 surgeries" conversation. That's a bunch of women having mastectomy, lumpectomy, re-excision, etc., the same month as you are. You'll have a lot in common with them!
otter
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Good morning to all and hi Sharon- welcome and glad to see that you brought your cat
. I don't know what it is with this thread and cats but it seems to be a theme. This bc trip is rough- especially at the beginning- but it's doable and ironically for me has been a great way to make friends- both in the cyberworld and beyond. Looking forward to talking more. Wishing you nice clean margins on Monday!Update on Wendy the dachshund- she's doing great both legs working again- a little wobbly but better every day. Staples out yesterday. She's still on cage rest but is basically herself. She LOVED the trip back to the neurosurgeon yesterday- didn't want to come back to boring old home after all the attention from the Tuft's staff.
I am no longer brooding about bc now that my labs came back and the tumor markers are low normal. Put me in a really good mood and overall I think I like having them checked as part of my follow up.
It's a gorgeous day here but cold. I plan to take a walk/run later. We have a white otter at the neighbors beaver pond but I haven't seen it yet, hoping to catch sight of it one of these times. Allyson
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A white otter? I'm jealous!
otter
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Sharon (just read your profile) and others...what do you like to read/what are you reading right now? One of the things that gave me the most comfort during chemo was reading- especially when I was in the depressed phase of my "journey." Some of my favorite reads were "American Bloomsbury" by Susan Cheever- led me to read "Walden" again with a whole new level of enjoyment and understanding. On the more silly, profane side, I have just read "Skinny Bitch" which was entertaining and somewhat motivating (although not so motivating that I didn't just eat some ff organic yogurt but I am considering quitting dairy). Also love Bill Maher "New Rules." I am guessing that the fact that this outs me in terms of my political views probably won't create a firestorm here- although it could. My view re: respect of political views is the same as on the religious/non-religious front- fine to differ but let's please not start telling each other "you're wrong." I know that I don't need to say this to the regular posters here as you all seem to feel as I do- just a reminder to anyone visiting that we welcome everyone to this thread but the purpose is sharing and support versus debate. Anyhow - if you are liberal and don't mind (or even enjoy, like me) some naughty comments, "New Rules" is great fun. I read it while I was depressed from the shock of the dx and wrung out from the chemo. My husband would here me laughing and come in to see what was up- I'd tell him "Not right now, I'm in bed with Bill Maher." LOL
Otter- yes- a white otter- I'm jealous too because I haven't seen it yet- others have- must be an albino, right?
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Hi, all. Sharon, I'm also just getting started with treatment. I finally got a new surgery date (the first had to be postponed to investigate some MRI findings): March 10. I'll be thinking of you on Monday - your re-excision is the same day as my MRI-guided biopsy. (Has anyone here had one of those? I'm not sure what to expect...I guess I can always start a separate thread to try to find out.)
I don't think I fully appreciated just how stressed out I was about the delay in my surgery until the surgeon called with the date last night, and a HUGE wave of relief washed over me. I already seem to have one of the longer periods between dx and surgery, and am eager to get going.
Regarding good books to read . . . Gary Shteyngart is another very, very funny writer. I really liked both "Absurdistan" and "The Russian Debutante's Handbook," and have been recommending both of them to everyone. I read Nathan Englander's "Ministry of Special Cases" while we were in Puerto Rico - a good book, but much sadder than I'd anticipated, so NOT something I'd recommend if you have the bc blues (unless, maybe, it helps to lose yourself in the horrors that other people in other times and places have endured). A couple of books on my post-surgery reading list are (and I just realized, both are totally appropriate for this thread!) "The Abstinence Teacher" and Sholom Auslander's memoir (can't remember the title) of his break with Orthodox Judaism (I read an excerpt in the New Yorker, and it was really funny).
Allyson, thanks for your rec's and for the whole idea of swapping reading suggestions!
Oh, and Madalyn, I loved your driving comment.
Someone (Allyson again?) mentioned a "home chemo" juice brew, which resonated; ever since my immediate-post-dx visit to my sig. other in Brooklyn, I've been totally craving the ginger-sorrel drink I had at a Jamaican takeout place there. I finally tracked down the people who make it (a tiny operation in the Bronx), and am trying to arrange for them to ship me an assorted case of their concoctions (carrot, papaya, soursop, plus the sorrel). In addition to being delicious, just the thought of drinking it makes me feel healthy. (So it does contain a lot of sugar - at least it's real cane sugar.)
Linda
(Hoping to see a white otter picture posted on here sometime!)
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Hi Sharon - here to tell you that it doesn't have to be totally awful. I finished my second treatment today and haven't had half the side effects they talk about in some of the other groups. Remember when you read that stuff - we are all different and react differently to what we are taking.
Having to go in for a re-incision is a pain, but for me they did it at the same place as the first surgery so at least there wasn't another scar. Second time they got it all.
Allyson: Great news about Wendy. She must be getting good care if she wanted to stay at the vets. I had to wait an extra 15 minutes when I brought Chaco in for his annual checkup because they brought him into the back for a play date with the techs.
Uh oh - chemo brain seems to be settling in - I'm having a hard time typing. See you guys when I wake up ...
Susan0 -
Hola! Am I the only male on Breastcancer.com? Husbands are also victims of this insidious disease. My athletic wife just been diagnosed with DCIS. Salud, Bob
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Hi, Bob - you posted on this thread before, right? How are you doing? As I recall, you mentioned that you were having a hard time with your wife's diagnosis. I can completely understand that. Almost ten years ago, I was the support person for a close friend with lymphoma, and I have to say - that experience was much, much harder on me emotionally than my own dx (so far, anyhow). I don't know why, exactly. Maybe my familiarity with the whole cancer routine (tests, tests, tests, wait, wait, wait, various unpleasant-but-doable treatments) makes it less frightening/disorienting this time out. I also think that when the cancer is in your own body - as horrifying as that is - you have at least the illusion of a tiny bit of control. I can eat healthily, exercise, etc., and feel as though I'm doing my bit. As the partner, on the other hand, you're probably feeling pretty helpless. That's really, really hard.
So I do hope you keep coming here to vent. I'm interested in what coping strategies you're using. I've noticed that my own partner's anxiety levels are higher than mine (we're in a long-distance relationship, so that's an additional source of stress for him).
Where is your wife at in her treatment?
Linda
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Hi Bob- You are not the only man at bc.org but perhaps just about as far as I have seen. There is one man, "Matic", who is a regular visitor and great support on the ILC (invasive lobular bc) part of this board. He is a med student from Europe and his mom has been dx and treated for invasive bc. The other man I see posts from is "Binney" (sp?) he posts a lot on the metastatic bc section of the board. He recently lost his wife to bc- I believe she was a regular here also. I looked at you profile and other posts and was sorry to see that you had some experiences with providers who were not good about including you in treatment discussions. I am sorry this happened to you. My husband and I were fortunate to have providers who were great at including him and talking with us both. He was able to be present for everything- except in the OR during my mastectomy- but we'll forgive them that
.It is hard for husbands and partners. My husband had support from men at work who were going through/had gone through their wives having bc or other cancer- unfortunately there were several guys who'd been through a lot. My sister-in-law was/is a support for both of us- she had node positive (17/17 nodes!) 10+ years ago.
Please let us know if there is any specific way we can help- advice/questions/validate, etc. Best to you and your wife. Glad to see you are in compliance with our "cat theme policy"
. Allyson0 -
Oh- Lewing I am going to check out The Russian Debutante's Handbook and Absurdistan. I have trouble choosing fiction.
If anyone is up for breast cancer related reading I highly recommend Susan Sontag's "Illness as Metaphor" and her son's follow up essay (I believe in "Best American Essay's 2006") "illness as More Than Metaphor" That edition of Best Essays also has several other very powerful, not always so cheerful, personal narratives about illness/cancer. "A Matter of Life and Death" was my "favorite" (I use the quotation marks because "favorite" is a funny term to use in referring to a writer's personal narrative of being dx out of the blue with metastatic liver cancer. There are parts of this story I still find myself thinking of- months after I read it...and I'm glad- but potential reader be warned.
Snowing here this morning and lovely. My mind is on home improvement and garden planning. I skated on the "otter pond" yesterday for an hour despite freezing temps- no otter sighting unfortunately.
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Thanks for all the book selections! My husband was teasing me the other day ... asked me how many "linear feet" of books on breast cancer/cancer/exerices for cancer/nutrition for cancer/fashion for cancer/humor for cancer etc. etc. I planned to buy!? I told him ... as many feet as I want!
I have a history of reading up on whatever topic presents itself in my life, ad nausum (pun intended). This has run the gamut from sewing/quilting/exercise/nutrition/decorating/american history/politics/cats/cooking ...
Recently completed "The Dark Tower" series by Stephen King. Also enjoyed Crazy, Sexy Cancer Tips".
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Sharon- Wow! I am exactly the same way- hope it's not a cause of breast cancer
. FYI the books I mentioned in the last post although somewhat cancer related are more in the literature/literary category, so they might get in under the radar. My husband just brought home "Breast Cancer: Beyond Convention" from the free shed at our transfer station for me- "The World's Foremeost Authorities on Complementary and Alternative Medicine Offer Advice on Healing." It's very good- just another idea for your collection. My current addiction (other than nutrition/cancer related) is home improvement/decor. I'm weeding out old books though- giving away and putting aside to sell on Amazon- I've decided that yes indeed, one can have too many books.
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I'm just an online info junkie. As I work for a university, I get access to an almost unlimited amounts of info. Of course now that I've done breast cancer (yeah right) I spent last week obsessing about HDTVs. My living room TV broke, and since that's about all I"m good for right now, thought I'd take the plunge. And before shelling out that much money for a TV, research was definitely in order.
But now that that's over, I need a new obsession. Maybe paying the bills would be good...0 -
Hi, I had to tell everyone, Cleo, the little black and white kitten, who has captured our hearts, LOVES water, in any form. She especially likes it when I take a bath, well she has fallen in once, when she first came, and of course, I rescued her. Then last night, I was draining the tub, and she reached down, didn't hit water, reached a little farther, still no water, then, the BIG reach, and PLOP she fell in again. I grabbed her with my towel and she was mightily insulted. But she drinks from glasses, tries to stick her feet in glasses (a no no) and if you go to the bathroom, she sits by your foot, then hops on the seat to see the water go down when you flush! She sits by any running water, of course she is amazing.
Hugs, Shirlann
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hi duddess I don't really label myself an atheist, Because I have moments where I sometimes think that Maybe theres something else. But for the most part I really believe that this is it. All the talk about afterlife, etc. to me sounds like fairytales. Anyhow when I let go of all the myths surrounding life, I found that that in itself-at least for me-not believing is a faith. The guilt is gone, the false hopes are gone, and the B.......over! I believe in justice, righteousness, freedom, love, peace, kindness, humanity,science,knowledge. I believe in me. And if this cancer kills me-at least I go out believing in me
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Great name, Tomatojuice. I'm always using religious expressions and occasionally I have the reactionary moment, like "Dear God, don't let this happen to me," but I assume it's just some kind of automated response from all those years of religious training. You have a great catechism, particulary believing in yourself.
Shirlann--everyone sends me cat videos. My favorite is the one of the cat that learned to flush the toilet and watch the water going down the drain. The cat does it about 20+ times in the video and then pokes its head over the seat to watch the water. If you notice your water bill going up, check to see if Cleo has learned to flush.
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I was raised Baptist but I do not put my faith in religion. I haven't been an active member in my church for sometime but I do believe in GOD. I don't know why I have cancer but I do put my faith in GOD I do not pray for him to heal me, I pray that he gives me strength, courage, grace and wisdom to battle this disease and (whatever the outcome) peace and acceptance. I cannot judge anyone who does not believe in GOD because to do so would be disobedient to his words (judge not lest ye be judged). I will however ask that you look around and acknowledge all the great things in this world that no man could possibly design (although man has invented wonderful things) the sky, the moon, the sun, the ocean a beautiful day, the wonder of the human body, the miracle of birth our capacity to love and forgive, (I know there are horrific things in this world) all the good things in this world, our very existence. It's human to have doubts and disbelief we all have. But sometimes when I look around I can't help but acknowledge a higher power and that is GOD. And even though you may not know or believe he exist he knows you exist just look at how he blessed the earth with women who come together and uplift one another during our time of need each women on this thread and on this website is a blessing from GOD.
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I was raised Baptist but I do not put my faith in religion. I haven't been an active member in my church for sometime but I do believe in GOD. I don't know why I have cancer but I do put my faith in GOD I do not pray for him to heal me, I pray that he gives me strength, courage, grace and wisdom to battle this disease and (whatever the outcome) peace and acceptance. I cannot judge anyone who does not believe in GOD because to do so would be disobedient to his words (judge not lest ye be judged). I will however ask that you look around and acknowledge all the great things in this world that no man could possibly design (although man has invented wonderful things) the sky, the moon, the sun, the ocean a beautiful day, the wonder of the human body, the miracle of birth our capacity to love and forgive, (I know there are horrific things in this world) all the good things in this world, our very existence. It's human to have doubts and disbelief we all have. But sometimes when I look around I can't help but acknowledge a higher power and that is GOD. And even though you may not know or believe he exist he knows you exist just look at how he blessed the earth with women who come together and uplift one another during our time of need each women on this thread and on this website is a blessing from GOD.
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I just wanted to add,
I believe with all my heart that God walks with me each and every step of my life. I'm not perfect, by all means. And maybe it doesn't matter so much while I'm here on earth.
But I would rather believe in something that may not be real, then not believe and find out to late that it is.
Hell scares me more than any type cancer would by a 1000 times over and then some.
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Right at this very moment, there are children and babies frightened, cold, hungry, terminally ill, exploited, abused, neglected, brutalized repeatedly.
That occurring and a power great enough to stop it, not stopping it, convinces me that we may be barking up the wrong tree.
But there is goodness and there is love. And that is what I think is the god within each of us, our ability to follow the righteous path and love without lies.
That the children suffer, and the old folks, too, in battlegrounds and oppressed nations all over the world, in large scale really, prevents from accepting the fact that a superior life form is standing back and allowing it to go on.
But, look around us, we have it great here, such a beautiful planet, all of the colors, majestic scenery, in all of its wrath and glory, you gotta admit, we human beings have got it made, relatively speaking in our universe.
Just don't know what is going on. Man has been searching for that answer since the beginning of his time on earth. It is hard to grasp an infinite universe but how else, no wall is deep enough to never end. All matter starts in one place and ends in another, 1 mm or 1 million miles.
So, yeah, freaky to think that we are all just happenstance and that what the real God is is us, the goodness inside us. And maybe some of us did and one really outstanding good person named Jesus decided to walk the earth, spreading his philosophy and creating at the same time place in history.
It is a big question. I hope that there is one but seems to me Heaven is a fairy tale. And hell is right here on earth. Christians and others are good people, never many takers, though I am concerned of the few who have taken a stance to not pay attention to the events taking place in the world today because their religion says it is prophecy and should not be interfered with. That and religion for profit. And hippocrites behind pulpits.
We shall see, that is for sure.
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Wendy, tomato juice, nice to hear from you. Wendy, I tend to think along the lines of your last post. This will be a short post because I just woke up, very unusual for me to sleep in but we had an evening out last night and didn't get in till 1am...way past my normal bedtime- had dinner out and saw Debbie Davies (blues show). It was my first opportunity to get out and dance since dx and treatment- it's awesome to feel like human being again! Shirlann, as you can see my cat (avatar) is black and white like your little friend. Interesting to read your post- she has very similar tastes- loves water (she DOES flush the toilet), gets in the shower, puts her toys in the dogs water bowl and swishes them around. My daughter told me that Maine Coon cats are know for their love of water and suggested maybe there is some of this in her genetic mix. She's a mini-cat but I suppose it's possible.
Maryl and yogip- I think I speak for all the members of this thread when I say this- we respect the right of others to have their beliefs and to follow them. You will note, however, if you go to any of the Christian or other religious/prayer oriented threads that not a single one of us has posted there to challenge or criticize others' beliefs in God or petitionary prayer. We've had some friendly participation here from women who are not nescessarily atheists- re: cats and other issues of mutual interest and that has been positive for everyone I think. This is NOT a debate thread however. It's purpose is to provide support for women facing bc who do not choose/are not oriented towards using belief based religion as part of coping with their diagnosis. Please respect that.
So much for short...I rarely write anything short!
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Wendy, very well said. My thinking falls along those lines also.
Anneshirley, I also use religious expressions frequently (heck ... that was how I was raised in a big Catholic family with 5 children!) My children know that I am particularly fond of petitions to St. Jude .. Patron Saint of Lost Causes!
I also respect that other people have a strong belief in God. I am not offended when my friends put me on prayer lists, or mention that they are praying for me. It makes me feel loved. And I DO believe in LOVE!!!
And I have encouraged my teenage children to follow their hearts and minds in their own PERSONAL search for answers. They were both raised as Christians (Episcopal, then Methodist). They both believe in God (or they did yesterday), but they aren't too impressed with the organizations.
I haven't mentioned my kitties' names... Harry is the old-man. (He isn't that old ... 9 year old calico, very picky with who he hangs with. Prefers people that are annoyed/hate cats and rubs all over them. Boo is my little black girl. She had followed some kids from apartments up to the Jr. High School and kept darting in the building when the door opened. I rescued her a couple of years ago.) Harry and Boo get along OK .. as long as she remembers her place. (Yeah, right. Guess who sleeps in the bed with my husband and me? It isn't Harry!)
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I meant to put this in my last post and forgot. (I haven't even had my first chemo yet. Is it too early to use the "chemo-brain" card?)
This is my favorite youtube video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MQ4vmSvCVbcIt is a kittie montage to the tune of Bjork's "It's So Quiet" . You can copy the url and it will take you to the site. If you love cats, I guarantee you will love this. My son (18, who doesn't love cats) loves this video.
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Yes, my friend is and that does not bother her. She is using tapes by Peggy Huddleston for relaxation and says they are wonderful. I am here exploring for her.
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What really does it mean to be an atheist. I've never met anyone that is one, just curious. And don't mean to be rude at all. Really just curious. Does that include luck as well? Dumb question but thats how little I know about it. Pearl and thanks if you answer.
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I am not the best person to verbalize this.
From what I understand, atheist means that you do NOT believe in God.
From what I understand, agnostic means that you don't have evidence either way. I personally don't find faith (in religious matters) a virtue because I have trouble understanding the basis for that belief. How can we know That God is the real one, and not the God of another religion? So atheism doesn't appeal to me because it seems like that's just as unknowable as belief in a God. I don't mean to offend anyone, and maybe its because I don't understand. Maybe I'm in my head a lot more than I should be.
Do I believe in luck? Not very much. I think a lot of things happen for reasons I do not understand at all. But that's just me.
I don't mean to speak for anyone else, just myself.0
