Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Pearl- in strict definition terms, my understanding is that atheist means "without god." There may be some differences here in how people interpret the term. I think some of us are agnostics- which means "without knowing" (if there is a god). My own belief/way of thinking is that I don't really engage with the debate of god/no god when it comes to creation and so on. Who we are, where we came from, where we are going, etc. is a great mystery. I myself am not without religion- I've been a Buddhist for many years. Even within the Buddhist world there are wide differences in belief in things that cannot be known/supernatural ideas of life after death and so on. I am in the "don't know/don't need to know" camp. I believe very much in loving one's neighbor, the value of love and kindness, that how we conduct ourselves here and now matters (sometimes in ways we don't even realize). Although I am not a traditional Christian I do find inspiration and meaning in many of Christ's teachings and "here and now" messages, particularly his Sermon on the Mount. There was something I read by a Buddhist teacher- Sharon Salzberg maybe, about dealing with her Christian family as a Buddhist- how to have her beliefs while respecting theirs. She talks about realizing that being a Buddha (Buddha like) as opposed to a Buddhist (pushing her belief) was the important thing. I notice the same thing for me with Christians- that being Christ like goes a lot further in affecting people and relationships for the better than pushing a set of beliefs in various unknowns.
Others might have a different response. I appreciate your sincere curiousity and don't mind answering at all in this case.
Just to avoid any confusion a reminder to others once again seems in order- this is NOT a debate thread.
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Leaf- I found what you wrote very clear and concise- very similar to my own views or lack thereof. Beautiful avatar photo too.
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Sharon - never too early to start using the chemo brain excuse. I don't remember which thread it was in, but we decided that being a space cadet might be a cause for brain cancer.
Since I am in day three of tx2, I am in full chemo brain mode. Allyson & others, so glad you got to the religious posts before I did this time. I'm not rational enough to comment.
Besides drinking glasses, Chaco also likes the water that is in the bottom of the bath tub after I get out. Don't understand that, but since it helps clean his dirty little paws, I won't complain. Once for one of his early birthdays, I bought him a gold fish. Figured he fish it out & have it instead of cake. But the dumb little thing put one paw into the bowl, pulled it right out & I wound up having to take care of that fish for months.
Last winter a friend went away & let his Beta fish with me. By now, Chaco knows he won't fish, but he really liked the water in the fish bowl. Poor fish was frightened out of his mind, but he got a lot of fresh water added to his bowl that week.
susan0 -
And I always thought it was a sign of how much my cats adore me, that they like to drink and/or play in my dirty shower water! Ah well. I still get a kick out of finding little kitty footprints in the tub (this is typically after they've been up in the dirty old attic). I'm less fond of their habit of stealing the strainer out of the drain and leaving it in unlikely places.
Allyson, I was meaning to read Susan Sontag's "Illness as Metaphor," but hadn't been able to find it . . . thanks for the tip and the added motivation. I'm thinking of picking up the Bill Maher book for my daughter (though I'll read it too, of course). She loves Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, the Onion, etc. - I'm guessing that Maher will appeal to her as well.
Madalyn, I relate to your comments about time spent on-line taking away from time doing more traditional reading. I'm more than a little compulsive about the internet stuff, too - that, and those darn New Yorkers that keep coming week after week, demanding to be read.
One of these days, I'm going to get it together to put together my own feline avatar photo!
Linda
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Well said allyson
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Obviously, my previous post was miscontrued, I respect the fact that everyone has a right to their belief and in no way intended to offend anyone or make anyone angry or hostile please accept my apology.
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Sharon, I love St. Jude. If I had to pay a finder's fee for everything he's found for me, I'd owe him a fortune. And then there's the Holy Souls--better than a wake-up service. I depended on them for years and they never let me down. So how does one reconcile St. Jude and the Souls with being a dyed-in-the wool atheist? I don't even claim agnosticism any more.
I love cat videos. Thanks for link.
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Yogi- No offense taken. There are other threads on this board that are debate oriented on various topics- this one just isn't and sometimes people visiting for the first time don't realize that. Feel free to stop by and talk cats, books, nature, treatment issues if you feel drawn to our conversation. I see also you are another stage III woman and newly diagnosed. You must be going through active treatment right now. Best of luck- it's a long haul but "doable" (although frankly I am glad to be done with that!). I've found the stage III boards very helpful for support and advice. Likely we'll talk there at some point. All good wishes. Allyson
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Hi--I'm home, and very happy at the moment. Just heard from my dermatologist that what I thought was a skin met is completely benign. Most wonderful words in the language! I should correct that to say I heard from Lisa, her physician's assistant. I'm off now to buy Lisa a box of chocolates. She called me the minute the report came in, and started the conversation with "Good news," so I didn't have to wait even a second in dread.
About cat hair. My last visit to the doctor I wore a black sweater, which I keep in a drawer so the cats can't get near it. I have no idea how they get into the closets or near clothes that are hanging about six feet above them but they do. I'm sitting waiting for the doctor, look down, and there's white hairs all over the bottom of the sweater! How do they do it?
Our youngest cat, LoMein, a male is so affectionate. I can't imagine how we thought we were happy before he came into our lives. Rachel, the other cat, is a bit of a snob, but a nice snob. She keeps to herself more than the younger one, but if he cries out for any reason, she immediately comes out of hiding to check on him. He's always getting stuck on furniture. She has lots of motherly instinct, which makes me sad at times that she never had kittens.
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Anne, Madyln , and everyone,
I do really enjoy hearing about your kitties. I had to get rid of mine 22 years ago when I had my first child...husband (now ex) was mildly allergic but kiddies were MUCH more allergic. Even today, they break out in hives and start plugging up if they're in a "cat house" for more than 1/2 an hour.
Sadly, fish just don't want to curl up in my lap, but they've been our only option. ("No dogs" rule by our landlord)
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I've followed the thread a little and I'm glad to see it active again. As for definition of atheism, it is non-belief in a supernatural deity. Buddhists are, by strict definition, atheist. I am atheist but go to church every week, at a Unitarian church, where there are lots of atheists, some Christians and Jews, too. We don't pray, but are very involved in social justice concerns.
There's a great website that you can literally get lost in www.godlessinamerica.com. It's a great place to spend time reading some very well thought out articles.
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I will try to get a few words in ... Harry keeps jumping up on the desk and walking across the keyboard.
I had my re-excision yesterday and am still waiting on the pathology report to see if my margins were clear this time. I guess if they aren't I'll have to have the whole breast removed. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for good news.
To distract myself, I have a spa manicure/pedicure scheduled for 3:30 today. As my sister-in-law keeps telling me, "It's all about you ... for now. So enjoy what you can
." Go ahead ... twist my arm. I'm still draining (11 days and counting). It does seem to be a little lighter color. Hopefully it will come out this week. I feel like I have a little tetherball hanging from my side. And I can't wait to get back in the shower and scrub under my arms!!!
Madalyn, Harry dips his paw in whatever I'm drinking (seems to really enjoy a nice cabernet, but will settle for tea, water or anything else that I have... sigh.) Boo prefers the water filter at the kitchen sink, but will settle for the wet shower floor. Anything seems to be better than the water bowl.
BrendaF ... I've considered the Unitarian church ... just haven't pursued it to date. I like the definition regarding the supernatural deity ...
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Madalyn-when I was a teen, we had a cat named Mao (she was Siamese, but we weren't into being geographically correct.) I was into sewing, but I had to hide every piece of wool that I purchased. She loved to lay on it. She was very adept at getting the fiber content right. She'd hunt out the closet where we kept some material, and you knew for sure she would pick out the wool. Maybe it was bringing out her big cat instincts.
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Hi Madalyn & everybody else - just a good idea to keep us out there so we have this little bit of extra support.
Had my second TX last Friday and am only now starting to feel human again. Boy I can't wait till this is over.
"Hairy legs" yeech!
susan0 -
Brenda - I grew up Unitarian. Our fellowship was much like you describe. I was surprised to learn as an adult that there are UU churches with ministers and more traditional services with prayers and hymns. I have great memories of going to UU Sunday school- we did an ethics program called "Decision Making" for a while, learned about different religions, and did nature study.
Madalyn- I think you are right on re: there being many atheists/agnostics out there. We just don't talk about it much, why would we? Sharon- No point in having bc if you don't collect the consolation prizes! I can remember all to vividly the time I spent with the drain hanging out of/off of me. I think I went about 2 1/2 weeks- I thought I'd never be rid of that thing. Here's hoping you can part with it ASAP. Susan- That's about how long it took me with each tx. It can seem like it will never end but it does and it is so great when you have that last tx. You know you're going to feel crappy but you sort of don't care because you're done and you just start feeling better and better.
I took Isabella the avatar cat for her shots today then she waited in the car in her little zip-up carrier during my periodontist appointment. That was her "crib" during her bottle feeding days and she seems to like being in there and like traveling.
Leaf- very interesting cat skill- I'm trying to think of some interesting way it could have been harnessed but the creative juices aren't flowing for me- I think I'm too tired.
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I'm a little weepy this morning - got the results of my MRI-guided biopsy back yesterday, and the large (5.5x2.9x2.3cm) area in my left breast that lit up on the initial scan is DCIS. I know that doesn't change my prognosis, for which I'm thankful, but it does change my surgery. Because the area is so large and diffuse, I'm no longer a candidate for breast-conserving surgery. So, next Thursday will be a mastectomy instead of lumpectomy.
I was kind of prepared for the news (I had a vague suspicion something else was going on in my left breast, even before the MRI results - it always puzzled me that I was first diagnosed from a cyst in the same quadrant as, but distinct from, my actual tumor), and had been looking at mastectomy pictures, reading other women's surgery stories, etc. etc. Still, the suddenness and finality of it are - I won't say devastating (amazing, isn't it, how we all redefine "devastating" as we go along?), but definitely a bummer. Leave it at that.
So, I'm wrestling with all the body image issues this raises (for a variety reasons, I'm 99% decided against reconstruction), and with the fact my recovery is going to be longer than I'd expected. Being mentally and logistically prepared for one type of surgery, and then learning that I'll be having another, is tough (esp. for someone as anal as I am!).
Some aspects of my reaction have taken me by surprise. I've been pretty garulous since my dx, oversharing with anyone and everyone willing to listen, firing off email updates to a long roster of friends, etc. etc. At this point, though, I just don't want to talk about it with anyone other than my partner. (I did tell one close friend, but only because she called me.) Has anyone else gone through this kind of reaction?
On the lighter side - guitarGrl, you mentioned a bunch of posts ago that you were researching hi-def TVs. Maybe we should broaden this thread beyond cats, cancer and non-belief to include consumer tips as well . . . at any rate, I've been thinking of replacing my 12-year-old TV and would be interested in what you find.
All the best,
Linda
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Linda- really sorry for the change in surgery plan. I had to revise my definition of "devestating" many times early in this not very pleasant "ride." Like you I was pretty open re: everything- still am- but there were points early on where I needed to put up the walls in order to regroup and integrate various pieces of news/emotions/etc. I had a mastectomy after a similar change in plan- no reconstruction- no regrets. Feel free to PM me or just ask here if there's any info etc. I can offer that would help. I think the idea to broader our discussion here is great. I can't help with the TV advice- we are still using our old one. Allyson
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Linda ... I was sorry to read about the news from your MRI. I'll will thinking of you next Thursday ... sending positive "mojo" your way. (My sister was in Mexico last week and sent me some "magic gypsy ... protecting you effectullay" (yes ... that spelling...) "goblin powder"). (I think it's charcoal...)
I relate to your reaction to all of this. I too have been very open about the diagnosis ... even telling strangers at the grocery store, etc.. Now, I find myself quieter about it. Just trying to soak it in and figure out what I'm really feeling. I've heard that I'm "being so brave." I don't feel particularly brave. Mainly kind of amazed at how ignorant I was of cancer (in general), and how many people I know that have dealt with this personally or within their family. Kinda feel like, well ... do what I have to do. I'm appreciative that I have days when I'm upbeat, and I don't analyze them cery much... because I fully expect to have crash and burn days also. Just hope they pass quickly. (Then I can get back to kicking some cancer-butt!)
My reexcision went well. Didn't find any more cancer cells. Yea! Still draining, but it's not bright red blood anymore. More a pinky, straw color.
Anyone else have the test result for the her2/neu come back "borderline?" My ratio was 1.9 ... whatever that means. Haven't met with an oncologist yet. Guess I'll either figure it out with my massive internet research project on "anything and everything" breast cancer .... or wait until they tell me. (Ah heck ... who am I kidding. Bring on Google!)
About HD TV ... we bought a Sony Flat Panel Bravia and have really enjoyed it. (My husband is an engineer and does all of his homework
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Allysnow and leaf, thank you for your answers. I too believe that being a good human and helping your neighbours and being peaceful is the most important thing. I do believe in God but don't often go to church, I pray alot but still at times wonder about all the different Gods each religion has. So I've often starting calling God the Creator in my prayers, so I am confused, but I do need something to believe in. And prayer is sort of meditation, also notice that when I forget to pray my life gets bad. Pearl
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Linda.......sorry you had to have a change in plans,....that's what sucks about this. I never even was offered an MRI so I don't know how much more extensive it is for me. Having Right simple mast on march 18.......will find out after final pathology.
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Linda - I am so sorry about your news. I'm close to tears anyhow today for other reasons, but that put me over the top. It sucks. Pure and simple. It sucks. Has nothing to do with age (and certainly not religion) - it has to do with who we are. Losing an important part of ourselves is awful.
Madalyn - I'm having 4 tx. But I'm trying hard not to let it rule my life. Next week I'm going to Florida to visit my 95 year old parents (there was an article in the paper today about how short Ashenazi Jews live forever). I'm also trying to decide about a trip that would be two weeks after the last treatment in April.
And as far as TVs go, both my research and my eyes agreed with Sharon's husband. No LCD TV can match up to a Sony. After doing the research, I went to a store which shall remain nameless because they won't wait on middle aged women who come in without a man attached. So anyway, while I was at CC, they had a whole wall of TVs all showing the same loop. The loop had incredible texture detail - sort of like painted cloth. The Sony was the only one that had all the detail. Samsung was next, and all others a distant third.
The jerks at CC lost a good commission because the next night I went to Sears which had the same set for a whole $2.00 more and bought it. It got delivered yesterday. The friend (woman) who went with me to Sears couldn't see why the Sony was worth the extra bucks, but I could. I'm an artist - color and contrast are important to me.
It's hugh. I live in a small condo & went for the 40" screen. When it's not on, it looks like a sideways monolith, but when it is on - great picture.
So if you are looking for a new TV - some bits of advice:
1. Don't go with a man - it makes it too easy for the salesmen to actually have to talk to you.
2. Best research site was cnet.com. They explain everything and help you make some technical decisions before you ever leave home, including size of screen.
3. Do go to a store with a lot of sets. Consumer reports (March 2008) rated the Samsung higher than Sony, though the Sony they rated was a different model than the one I bought. See what looks good to ***you*** not to me, not to the reviewer. You're the one who has to live with it.
4. Shop around. Amazon has good prices, but there have been iffy things written about their delivery service. Both CC and Sears were $100 cheaper than Best Buy. And Costco didn't have the selection I wanted.
Any more consumer products I can research for you guys? I love doing stuff like this.
susan0 -
I hope this helps some to understand the meaning better.
-noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. [Origin: 1565-75; < Gk áthe(os) godless + -ist
]
-Synonyms Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine. Infidel means an unbeliever, especially a nonbeliever in Islam or Christianity. A skeptic doubts and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds.0 -
Thanks so much for the thoughts and understanding and even (or especially?) the magic gypsy goblin powder. It's really moving how much concern lives on this board.
Sharon, so glad your procedure went well.
Susan, thanks for the tv review and shopping tips. Funny that you should have had a bad experience at that unnamed consumer electronics emporium; I only shopped there once, for an iPod for my daughter, and vowed "never again."
Allyson, I'll definitely PM you to share notes on this wild ride. Maybe not for a day or two, though - after I post this, I'm going to take a short break from cancer websites, hide the Susan Love book and Reach to Recovery pamphlets, not open the folder with all my medical stuff in it . . . in short, banish the accoutrements of cancer for just a little while. Screw it.
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So, I woke up this morning feeling . . . normal. Not obliviously normal, in a before-cancer way, but normal the way it is now. I went for a run, did all my usual morning stuff, and put on a clingy sweater because, well, it looks good on me and I felt like wearing the damn thing.
(Note/digression: After wearing mostly baggy, vintage clothes scavenged from clearance racks and estate sales for most of her adult life, guess who decided this past fall to invest in a new look, based on clingy, deeply v-necked tops? That would be the same person who, after sporting what could pass for a "chemo cut" hairstyle for the past decade, decided to grow her hair out, patiently suffering through that scraggly, can't-do-anything-with-it stage. Is there some sort of Murphy's Law of cancer at work here, or what?)
Ahem. I gather up my newspaper, planner, ecologically-correct green shopping bag containing my lunch and returnable bottles that my pre-surgery "to do" list tells me I need to return, grab my coffee mug with that last precious quarter cup of coffee in it, and I'm out the door . . .
. . . except that closing the door causes my coffee to slosh out of the mug, all over my lunch and that beautiful, pale green clingy sweater. So it's back into the house to scrub myself with a wet washcloth. My stylish, sexy "look" now features a big wet patch on my stomach.
But who cares, right? Into the car and off to work. I find myself daydreaming a little (truth be told, I was already mentally composing this post), and don't immediately notice that the car in front of me is braking for a construction bottleneck. I have to step on the brakes hard, which sends my coffee mug (which by then had maybe 1/8 of a cup of coffee in it, but because cold coffee is such an incredibly valuable commodity, I couldn't possibly have just poured it into the sink while I was cleaning myself off, could I?) flying. Coffee is everywhere, the mug knocks up against one of those returnable bottles, and cracks.
I really liked that mug, too.
All the while, I'm fuming about what a miserable morning I'm having, but also loving the fact that it's an ordinary miserable morning. The lesson I get from all this is that people who say "don't sweat the small stuff" have it completely wrong. Sweating the small stuff is good. In some weird, hard-to-describe way, I really do think that sweating the small stuff helps us handle the big stuff.
(Please, no wisecracks about the "midlife crisis" hinted at in the second paragraph!)
Linda
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Oh Linda, what a miserable morning! I think you are right that these ordinary miserable mornings give us strength to handle the big stuff.
Last year my friend was talking about getting her spider veins fixed, and her finger fixed so she could extend it straight. This year, its dealing with a big bad cancer (not breast or ovarian). Priorities change, and what classifies as 'a bad day' changes too.
We're with you here with both the big and small.0 -
Linda - I know what you mean. One of the things that has struck me the most through all of this is that "normal" needs to be redefined. And yeah, part of normal is now coming here and hanging out so thanks for pre-composing the message.
No midlife crisis jokes, chalk all the bad stuff up to pre-chemo brain. I've been using the chemo brain excuse way too often in the past week because it's so convenient. People just shake their head and get a sad look on their face. Hey - it's not like I'm abusing a disabled parking permit - just stretching the limits of what I can get away with. And that's part of the old normal for me.
Mary - thanks for the synonyms - I think I like "infidel" much better than atheist. Denotes more of a trouble maker. As long as we don't have to grow beards ... oh no ... that's Fidel ...
susan0 -
Linda- Sounds like a bit of a bad day! I'll get back to you more at length probably Sunday- we are on the road- currently at not the greatest Quality Inn I've ever stayed at- on a car getting trip in PA. At least this place allows dogs- that's pretty much it's main virtue- well no bloodstains in the shape of a human form and the door locks- this is good too...
Anyhow. I have always been one for the form fitting tops and v-necks and am still wearing them well post mast with no reconstruction. I can't wear a super deep V but other than that my wardrobe is unaffected and I look fine. Just thought it might be a comfort to know you can probably keep your new look. Not for everyone but I wore a wig in public all through chemo- my insurance paid for a decent one- I got lots of compliments on my new haircut (which is now in my closet). Now I've gone back to the short and spiky look. Re: atheist/infidel/unbeliver - we caught part of Fresh Air on our journey tonight- great discussion on scientific as opposed to religious understandings and explanations for life on earth, tc. We lost the signal early in the show which was disappointing. Maybe I can get the podcast. Wishing all a restorative weekend. Allyson
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I have to admit ... you girls are under my skin (in a good way). I look forward to logging on, checking to see what my favorite "infidels" have been up to. I think of you daily!
Went to the gym yesterday and walked on the treadmill for any hour. Enjoyed it so much, I went back today. This afternoon I went outside and walked for aboout 40 minutes in the neighborhood. (Beautiful clear day, not too breezy.)
When I got home, I logged on to check out what clinical trials were open that I might qualify for. When I had my surgery (before they knew the status of my lymph nodes) I was hoping to be in a study regarding targeted radiation. That got cancelled when three nodes came up negative.
I read "It's Not About the Bike" by Lance Armstrong. He's pretty cocky ... but hey ... he sure whupped up on his cancer. (He's not into organized R ...) Also read "Cancer: 50 Essential Things to Do." I REALLY LIKE THIS BOOK! Empowerment: 101!
Love! and great health to you all.
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I'm jealous. I never made it outside today. And as usual, it was another perfect day in paradise ...
spent over 4 hours catching up with paperwork. Since the dx in november, who cared about anything else? Finally found all my tax forms & can finally call the person who does them for me.
I'm impressed that you guys can read. That's definitely oe of the skills I've lost through chemo brain. Going from reading one book a day to one book a month. I'm addicted to mysteries. Sometimes it's easy to go through a book a day because after reading the first 2 chapters, I decide it's boring, and skip to the end.
I'd tell you what good mysteries I've read lately, but I can't remember what they are.
susan0 -
Susan- I do the same thing with books- some people feel like once they start they have a duty to read every word the author wrote even though they are sick of it. Re: reading and chemo brain- I found that if it was the right book I could really get into it. If I was really tired and unfocused then sometimes magazines would work- I find them to be kind of like candy for the brain- or brain Doritos. Now that I'm no longer in tx I don't have as much time to read...and I've been spending more time on the computer.
Sharon- "It's Not About the Bike" was one of my summer reads last year. My husband picked it up for me. I is an inspiring story and I think helped seal my commitment to exercising all throughout treatment. I did find myself feeling jealous of how with testicular cancer once you're a year out you are pretty much guaranteed that it is not coming back- unlike me with 10 or even 15 years of "wait and see."
Madalyn- I thought during treatment that I might keep wearing the wig but interestingly it's been in the closet since the minute I had enough hair to feel semi-presentable. Talking about it has me thinking I should pull it out and try it on for old times sake, and see how I like it now that it's been a few months and I don't actually need it.
Yesterday was a beautiful day here and I got out for a 40 minute walk/run. Today looks like it might be the same- a little cold, but the light this morning is lovely. The birdfeeder has been busy all morning with finches and now red-bellied woodpeckers.
Allyson
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