Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Well ... I hope we are all still HERE ... so to speak. Sorry ... sometimes I'm an irreverent hussy. Actually, in my mind, I'm USUALLY an irreverent hussy. Hussy was actually an endearing term my "Momo" used to give to her granddaughters when we we being a little cheeky (which she loved).
One of my favorite Momo stories ... I grew up living on 5 acres, next door to my grandparents. I adored Momo and Popo. We had a "mutual" cat named "Max." He spent as much time around her front porch as he did in our house.
When Momo died of a stroke in 1979, Max "disappeared" within a couple of days. We found him, curled on the front porch, beneath her bedroom (window two or three days after the funeral).
I think he missed her terribly. I know I do.
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Today's the last day of my post-surgery sick leave - I'll be heading back to work on Monday. I haven't read nearly as many novels as I'd hoped, but I did make a significant dent in my magazine backlog. The DVDs (someone at work lent me a whole shopping bag full) can wait for chemo.
Sharon, do you know anything more about your chemo drugs/schedule? Looking at your signature, I was reminded of how close we are in both the timing of our diagnosis and the stage of our disease. I met with the oncologist yesterday, and liked her - she's a resident working under the supervision of the doc I'd met at my center's "welcome to cancer" orientation. She came across as a little nervous and scripted at first, but we warmed to one another over the course of an hour+ appointment.
What they're recommending for me is adriamycin+cytoxan followed by docetaxel. I'd have loved to get away without chemo, or with "just" cytoxan+docetaxel, but I'm inclined to take their recommendation for the 3-drug combo. (Though I'm in the process of setting up a second opinion at another center, just to get another perspective.) Since my cancer surprised everyone by showing up in a lymph node despite its small size and low grade, I want to try to make sure that there are no more sneaky surprises down the road.
The decision I'm pondering at this point is whether to go for a dose-dense schedule on the AC (every 2 weeks instead of every 3). That means I won't have that 3rd week of feeling almost normal between cycles, but will get the whole thing over with 4 weeks quicker. I'm kind of leaning toward dose-dense.
I'm scheduled to have my port put in on April 9, and will probably start chemo the week of April 21. (I could start a week earlier, but I really want to get in a trip to NYC for the Passover holiday before chemo knocks me on my a$$.)
Oh yeah, the obligatory cat story: well, my cats think that those little ACS-supplied "puffy" breast forms make fine toys!
Linda
P.S. We had MORE SNOW in Detroit last night. The forsythia that would normally be blooming by now are bending under its weight this morning.
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Hi Linda.
Much to my frustration, I don't have an appointment with an oncologist until April 9. The waiting is making me very antsy.
The pathology report (which I have gone over exhaustively) gave me a few clues about possible chemo treatment(s). They used a PathVysion Kit "further indicated as an aid to predict disease-free and overall survival in patients with stage II, node positive beast cancer treated with adjuvant cyclophosphamide, doxorubicin, and 5-fluorouracil (CAF) chemotherapy."
also ..."an aid in the assessment of patients for whom HERCEPTIN (trastuzumab) treatment is being considered." ... SOooo I guess I won't be taking that since I was "Unamplified".
I have no idea if the oncologist will be following that treatment. (I just called to see if there had been any cancellations to get me in sooner. No such luck.)
I've been handling this pretty well (so far), but I do have a concern about my lungs. Can't really say anything to family/friends at this point because ... well, I don't know why. Just don't feel right doing so when there isn't anything to point to except a wheeze occasionally. (I had a chest x-ray before surgery, and asked the surgeon about the results at my followup this week. SHe said "It must have looked fine because the lab didn't contact her about any abnormalties ...")
Anyway, I don't want to become an alarmist and start over-analyzing every cough and ache. I work out every day (an hour of cardio), and weight train 2/3 times a week. Plan on doing so through chemo ... even if it's just a walk to the mailbox. It's times like these I wish there WAS a god ... (a nice, generous, loving one.)
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And ... I forgot ... I'm kind of hoping to not need a port. Did they "tell" you to do it? Recommend ... pros/cons?
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Based on what I've heard and experienced a port is not a requirement but some oncs seem to like them. I went to Dana Farber and had dose dense chemo- no port- no problems. I guess they are good if you have bad veins or have trouble tolerating repeated IV sticks. I think if you can do without it's a good thing- eliminates an additional 2 procedures not to mention an avenue for infection. That said a lot of women here seem to have them with no problems.
Sharon- exercising during tx really helped me. Hopefully you can get the wheeze checked out soon. It's hard not to be anxious about any kind of sx. Good to know that even w/ bc dx we can have problems that aren't cancer related.
Linda- I'm biased in favor of the dose dense approach- get's it over with quicker and possibly some additional benefit. Hmm- I didn't get all these ACS cat toys and other goodies- except the various "so now you have cancer" instructional materials. Good idea to enjoy Passover before the chemo- you never know how you'll feel and how food will seem to you. I got off very easy in this dept. mainly had just fatigue- no change in appetite or taste of foods- believe my experience was the exception however.
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On the port issue . . . my center basically mandates them: I assume that if someone raised an objection, they would allow you to try going without one, but a port is definitely the "default" option.
It was a nonissue as far as I'm concerned, because I have really, really crappy veins. As a matter of fact, the Red Cross fired me as a platelet donor because my veins kept collapsing during the apheresis process. (And the worst part of my breast surgery by far was getting the initial IV started, when the nurse trying to corral my spaghetti vein hit a nerve.)
I do have a friend who did her bc treatment without a port, with no problems.
Sharon, did you notice breathing problems before surgery, or did they start afterward? If the latter, could it possibly be related to the general anesthesia? (You had two surgeries, right?) I know I felt some chest congestion for a while after surgery. No wheezing, though. And yeah - it sure *is* hard to avoid overanalyzing every twinge.
Linda
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I just got back from the gym ... did 45 min on the elliptical and 15 on the treadmill. (Was going to leave after the treadmill because one of the employees came over and turned the fan away from me ... and I LOVE the fan ... and he knows this ... don't ask. Weird power struggle. Anyway ... my personal trainer was there and gave me the "you're not going to let Don get to you and cheat you out of your calorie burn for the day?! speech ...)
I actually had noticed the little wheeze before the surgery. And it's not always present. So ... I'll just be AWARE.
About the port. I have BIG veins, so it's not a problem using them (now). Who knows what they will be like when treatment starts?! I hope I am a candidate for the dose dense therapy. Just have to be patient
Allyson, thanks for your input re: exercise. I have read so much info about chemo resulting in weight gain. I really would prefer being 10-12 pounds lighter than I am (but, of course, not enough to actually modify my diet). My BMI is in healthy range.
Anyway, did you have to battle weight gain?
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Sharon - I don't have great veins (well I do on the side they can't use anymore), but I've done just fine without a port. I think a lot depends on which drugs they give you. A friend dx a week before me started out without a port but is now having one put in because the adriamycin was turning her veins brown. She also has to do 6 treatments instead of the 4 I'm doing.
Tomorrow will be a sad day. A group of us from work have been camping together for about 15 years now. One of the most faithful campers died of bc last year. Someone came up with the great idea of having a memorial bench put in at her favorite spot. Tomorrow will be the unveiling, so I'll be driving out to Julian for that.
Sorry to rub it in Linda, but yes camping season has begun out here. Often when the ceanothus is in bloom along the coast (also known as wild california lilac), the lilac trees are in bloom up in the mountains. A real treat for us sea level types who don't get enough cold in the winter to grow them ourselves! OK, I'll stop now.
Well one last observation - it is interesting how many in this particular thread are still part of the ethnic traditions of being Jewish. I never think about Passover as being religious - it's so much more about family.
susan0 -
Susan, that's a beautiful testimony to your friend.
I went to school at UT/Austin. It is a pretty campus with lots of trees ... and the most wonderful shrubs ... rocky mounain laurel (sophora secundaflora msp? ). I wonder if they are similar to your ceanthus? Big pendulous blooms of lavender and the scent of grape kool-aid. (Very slow growing and doesn't like the cold climate up here in Oklahoma
) Makes me want to move back down to the hill country ...0 -
Hello, ladies,
I keep forgetting where this thread is located, since I spend most of my time on the mets page.
There's a thread there call "Women of Faith" that I just have to bite my tongue and not jump in on, especially after we had so many of them feel like they had to convert us early on.
On the port question - when I did 4 a/c 4 taxol in 2005, I did it without a port and no problems. With mets, they left it up to me, but I could tell my veins were starting to have a lot of scar tissue, and I'd be black and blue after several tries to hit the vein. I'm happy with the port, generally, but I'm glad I did the first go-round without one.
Linda, I'm in the Cleveland area, so the weather is similar to yours. I also was a platelet donar for 20 years. I'd love to have some of them back now, I'm having a bit of trouble keeping counts up.
Today it started rainy and snowy, but now it's clear and sunny. I'm by the window sort of watching DH out filling the potholes in the driveway with gravel. We just bought a little tractor with a loader a few weeks ago, and he hasn't really been able to use it until today. He's like a little kid, he just came in and asked if I "minded" if he works a little longer. It just means I have to wait on a drink.
I go to a Unitarian church, and we have a 50+ women's group that meets once a month. Last month we talked about atheism, and got so into it that we are going to continue next month. As we talked about what it means, it turns out that many of them are pretty much where I am, though I'm the only one who started outright by saying I'm an atheist.
Happy spring, everyone!
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Hello Brenda, and happy spring to you also!
I have looked up the Unitarian church in my area, but have not made an effort to attend (yet). I'm actually enjoying not feeling guilty for not getting up on Sunday mornings (or venturing out early on Saturday evenings) to go to mass
. Sounds silly, but so much of my upbringing was rooted in personal guilt ....Now I must try not to blame myself for my cancer because I drink wine ...
I joke around (in my head) about being "a bad egg" ... I think there are those that would believe it to be true, if they knew the real me .... But, the odd thing is ... I really do like myself. I just have this feeling other people wouldn't like me if they really knew me. Or not?! Heck ... I'm going crazy.
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Susan:LOL. Sounds like Joli jumped the species line. You knew she owns you and not the other way around?
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Sharon - rocky mountain laurel is different from ceanothus from the way you describe it. It has small little cotton-ball size puffs of lilac colored stuff & has a very faint but pleasant smell. I'd go outside & smell it to describe it better but the chemo (and the cats) make me very stuffed up. Austin is a very nice area - a group of friends (who all met on the internet) go to Wimberely every October. There are times that I've thought of relocating except that the weather there doesn't compare to the weather here - I like easy living.
leaf - of course I know who owns who. I'm well trained. I've even learned to open doors & clean out the cat box.
Brenda - if you don't want to have to figure out where this page is, in the top posting there's a check box that says "add to my favorite conversations." If you click that, then when you log in, all you have to do is go to "my home" and it's right there at the top & tells you if any one's posted since you did.
susan0 -
Sharon- re: Did you have to battle weight gain? I guess in a sense the answer is yes because probably I would have gained weight if not for focusing on very healthy eating and consistent exercise. It was a battle that I won, which is the important part. I finished chemo 2 pounds lighter than when I started (during tx I focused on not gaining rather than losing). Since then I've lost another 8-10 pounds. It's been slow but steady weight loss, and not by "magic." I have had to make drastic changes in my diet- it's been good because I feel better too- better now (finally) than I did even before tx.
Obligatory cat comment- Isabella better get to work- we think there may have been a mouse in our bed while we were out doing errands and at the gym this morning. Bought a lovely purple hyacinth on the way home- buds are starting to appear. Sharon- I can imagine that grape kool-aid scent- lovely.
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Finally got the picture of Joli on the American Cancer Society pillow up!
and they are learning to share!
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Joli is one gorgeous cat! Beautiful photo too- the light and the colors.
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I am not a believer either and it would feel incredibly insincere to me if I tried to pray. When I was in midst of radiation, life got very dark for me. Anti depressants saved me from that feeling, and I felt hopeful again. If you start to feel really blue, I suggest talking to a therapist about getting on a good anti depressant. Science (in this case chemistry) CAN fill in for religion for those of us who just don't have the faith. Hang in there!
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I know that feeling of hopelessness. I've been through two major depressive episodes in my life and have been on Prozac for about 9 years. (I also used a psychologist in addition to a psychiatrist for the first three/four years on meds.)
The combination of talk/drug therapy saved my life! I'm thankful for that now ... if I was in the same place now as I was then, I'd have already thrown in the towel.
Exercise helps also.
And best wishes to you.
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I've been there too. I've said this before in various threads but am always willing to repeat myself. After my dx last year I had an episode of severe depression combined with anxiety. Initially I thought that anyone in my position (going from thinking they were fine to being dx with locally advanced bc with a disease free 10 year survival rate of about 80%- give or take) would feel as I did. I was so preoccupied and devestated by the fear of recurrence it was like it was already happening.
On the one hand I wanted to make every day a good one and on the other I was lucky to be able to string together 5 good minutes. I tried exercise, saw a therapist from a week after my surgery, did everything I know to be helpful as far as trying to think more realistically/distract myself/meditate- nothing worked. It was at the point where much of the time I was thinking that it might be better to die sooner and get it over with than to live in the fear of the mets showing up. I had had episodes of depression in the past and had tried both Paxil and Zoloft and had horrible reactions to both- weird scary cardiac side effects- like a pulse of 200 and feeling like my skin was burning off.
Needless to say I was hesitant to try meds again but I felt so terrible I was willing to do anything. I tried Lexapro at the recommendation of my APRN therapist. Being a newer SSRI it has a lower side effect profile. I went up on it slowly and within less than a week I was clearly getting better. Like it was unbelievable- even colors looked brighter- really- at one point I thought my vision had actually gotten better. All of a sudden I was interested in things. I could concentrate. The "I could die from this" faded from being this immediate thing to being a theoretical thing that as such doesn't occupy my mind.
An interesting thing is that now I am better than I was before dx. I hadn't realized it but I realize now that I had a low grade depression going already, before being dx, and had just gotten used to it. Lexapro absolutely saved my life. I was at much greater risk of dying from the depression than I was/am the breast cancer. Ever if the worst happened and I was diagnosed with mets down the road I don't know that I'd decide to "slip out the back door" (as I thought of the suicide option previously). My guess is probably I wouldn't.
The last couple of months have been so sweet, the happiest and most fulfilling I've had in years and I am so grateful to be here. It has also been a great learning in that I am much quicker to recommend meds to clients who come in with depression (I'm a psychologist).
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Aetheist or not, I think being good person will take you far.
Check this out and see if you would like to help out
I think its a good concept, I just made a dedication to my cat
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Leesa- Sounds like a nice idea but weird/questionable re: what happens to the other 50% of the $$$. Seems like it would be better to make a donation of 100% to your chosen charity and dedicate it to whomever you wish- put the photo or words down in a journal or something versus forking over half the proceeds for ??? (as far as I can tell). I do agree that the idea of sharing a portion of one's money/time is an honorable and good idea.
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gotta agree with Allyson. I try to donate to charities where I know most of the money will be for the intended purpose. For example, when we had the terrible fires in San Diego last year, I gave money to a fund that was to be distributed directly to the families.
I would never give money as vague as 50% go to charities. Which charities? I won't give to the United Way because they support the homophobic boy scouts, not to mention their overhead.
Being good is good. How you define "good" is up to each person.0 -
Hmmmmm......I'm not sure...I see the logic in finding out exactly what the charities are and not giving to scams, but maybe giving is in and of itself a healthy thing, regardless of where it's going.
I remember walking down the street in Chicago with my mother when I was in high school, and we came across a man begging by the street. My mother said, without ever looking directly at him, "oh we give to the Lutheran Church fund that takes care of people like you", and walked away. The look on his face was so sad. And my mom is a minister's wife! Obviously, he was going to take most of the money he got and buy a bottle, but hey, how many of us have found comfort in a bottle?
What is my (atheist) point? I don't know, but just that the practice of giving it away from time to time helps make us good people, maybe, and maybe helps us feel better.
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We've had two sunny days in a row here in Michigan - that, and the fact that the seroma under my arm is finally starting to resolve itself have done wonders for my mood.
(That seroma was something else. Minor in the grand scheme of things, but *so* icky and annoying and demoralizing. At its worst, it really looked as though some deranged plastic surgeon had constructed a new breast in my armpit instead of on my chest.)
On to the nature report: I've finally started to see a few early bulbs blooming around here, mainly scilla and snowdrops and crocus. Of the 100+ crocus bulbs I planted my first year in this house, more than 10 years ago, one valiant stand of maybe 4-5 survived the squirrels and rabbits and are blooming their fool heads off. This morning, during my run, I noticed cedar waxwings going after the crabapples that overwintered on the trees. (Cedar waxwings are some of my favorite birds - I love the understated elegance of their plumage.) Oh, and I heard pheasants crowing as well.
The discussion of depression a few posts back was interesting: it seems as though that's another thing (besides cats) that many of us share. I foolishly went without treatment during my first and worst episode, back in graduate school. It gradually lifted, and was never serious enough that I was in danger of harming myself - my failure to get treatment just left me more miserable, for a longer period, than necessary. The second episode was more reactive/situational, when my friend/lover was dying under horrible, complicated circumstances. I did get treatment then, both talk and drugs. Maybe because that second episode was tied so closely to a bad situation, medication didn't change the colors of my world the way it did for Allyson. It did blunt the edge a little, I guess.
I know that having depression once puts you at risk of having it again, but I no longer *feel* at risk. I sort of feel as though I've been through the worst (meaning Gerry's cancer, not mine), come out the other side, and closed the door for good.
Linda
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On the depression discussion ...umm dominated by my lengthy personal disclosure followed by what seemed like a slightly awkward silence ...LOL. Wonder if grad school is a major cause of depression- in my experience it's a common side effect of the extra education. In retrospect I think the depression that got rolling in grad school never totally resolved, but I got used to it and functioned pretty well with it. The bc diagnosis totally blindsided me. I got the "call back" from the mammo center after one of the best workouts I'd had in years, I'd jut gotten married 3 weeks before (our first anniversary is coming up next week). Then every piece of news I got was just worse and worse. With the locally advanced dx I was pretty hopeless- particularly after the first oncologist I saw quoted me worse survival stats than I actually have (she was rushed and I think made a mistake when she ran the adjuvant program). I had always been dubious of the benefits of antidepressants, especially in cases where there was obviously something to be upset about. It was quite the bonus/consolation prize that the Lexapro not only resolved the acute depression I had related to the dx, but lifted the low grade depression I didn't even realize I had. The last few months have among the best time I've had in years- who would've thought
. Linda- cedar waxwings are among my favorites too, love their colors and their little masks, although I don't see them nearly as often as I'd like. Today I was happy to discover all the flowering bulbs we'd gotten for our wedding (which we had at home) sprouting in their pots in the woodshed. I had intended to plant them but was at my most wiped out from chemo by the time fall rolled around. I started planting them this afternoon and I think they should be fine- I'll probably do the rest tomorrow- instant spring garden!
Calypso- I agree about giving it away from time to time- it's good for everybody- giver and recipient. Still gonna pass on that 50% charity though
seems like the other 50% goes for putting the picture up of who/what you are dedicating to. I'd rather donate 100% to the charity of my choice and make my own private dedication. The thing reminds me of the star someone I am very fond of and who is usually more sensible BOUGHT!!
in memory of her son, or the people who successfully sold nothing (I think they might have even had a picture of it for some amount like $16 on e-bay. Speaking of which- I bought a really great car on e-bay (Volvo 240 sedan) recently for a great price. This was a clever way to sell it because it REEKS of cat pee. I'd love to know how that happened. We have done all sorts of over the top stuff to get rid of the smell including removing the seats and dousing them with a gallon of "Natures miracle" as well as using "Urine Gone" with the black light. The car still smells. I imagined calling "Car Talk"- Click and Clack would be in an uproar with their usual hysterical laughing I'm sure- I figured it might be more useful and less embarrassing to give you cat lovers a crack at this problem. Does the smell of cat pee ever go away of its own accord I wonder?
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I have felt so alone, even after posting on these boards. Still, this is the first place i go when i log on to the internet. This is one crazy journey.
Wish I hadn't needed to meet you (and vice versa). Is this really happening to us? Doesn't seem real to me.
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Allyson: re cat pee-I'm no expert as I've never been taken care of by a cat.
However, I did hear of one house, during the real estate craze, that had been inhabited by a woman who had something like 75 cats in the house. There was a line of people trying to buy the house (it was NOT discounted for the smell, or not by much), and the new owners took out all the flooring, all the sub-boards (sorry I'm bad at house terminology) and was delighted with her house! The real estate broker said it got much more activity than the normal house. Notoriety won, I guess.
Not my choice of home improvement projects.0 -
Sharon- your post immediately brought back some of what I felt early on, the "is this really happening?" feeling. I remember I'd wake up in the morning and open my eyes and that would be the first thing that would hit me. I really did not think I would ever feel "normal" again and there was a profound sense of isolation with this- like I'd been banished from the world of healthy people. This is the first (or sometimes second) place I come to when I log on to the internet. It's funny because I initially had trouble engaging with this site, it freaked me out. I only started to post here once I started to feel better more than 2 weeks after my last chemo. I'm sending you a PM Allyson
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Hello, ladies,
Ah, spring! I had chemo on thursday that just about put me under, and today is the first day I've been out of my jammies. But, playting the chemo card, DH weeded flower beds for me yesterday, and I think it was really gratifying to him to do something for me that mattered so much.
I have mentioned before my UU women's group has been discussing atheism, and later this month we are going to dig deeper into individual's beliefs. I'm going to be leading the discussion. I'll bet that as people talk about what they believe, they'll discover that they are actually, according to strict definition, atheists.
I've put together a list of "attributes" about atheists to spark discussion. Here are a couple, and you can let me know if you want to hear more. I've got a couple of pages.
Atheists believe that in life there is an element of chance. Accidents happen, it is not a sign of the wrath of God. Atheists take comfort in knowing that there is NO PLAN.
Atheists often have relationships with people who have alternate lifestyles. They can accept people without the need to convert them or save them from a deity who wil condemn them for beiing themselves.
That's a start. Comments????
Oh, and DH also said he saw a cedar waxwing yesterday. We're near Cleveland. Birds are busy, busy!
Cat pee? Can't help you, but white vineger works on dog urine in the carpet. It might be worth a try.
Sharon, I sympathisize with your anguish, looks like you are newly diagnosed. It takes a while to get to the point of even talking about this without breaking down. But your hormone/receptor status is the best you could wish for, at least, and your chances are good that you'll be fine!
As for me, I feel really thankful and hopeful when I'm not low from chemo. I have so much. And there are a few with mets that make it. I got an email from my social worker at the hospital who told me of a triple negative lady (like me) who reached her tenth anniversary with mets last week and was released from oncology. That gives me great hope. Right now, I feel good that the sun is shining, and I have a flat of pansies to plant.
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Just found this thread today and am glad I did. Another atheist here.
I never did, even as a child, feel comfort with the idea of heaven. The idea of living on and on and on forever in heaven was kind of frightening for me. I am more comfortable with the idea of when I'm gone, I'm just gone, no heaven, no hell, no purgatory, doesn't frighten me at all.
Atheists often have relationships with people who have alternate lifestyles
I believe this fully, most Christians I know have that saying "Love the sinner hate the sin." I hate that saying by the way, and it's often used to show their disdain for homosexuals or maybe not disdain but that that lifestyle is against their religion. I only know a few other atheists personally but they are all very liberal in their social viewpoints and have a philosophy of "live and let live" as long as it is harming no one. I also believe in "mind your own business" as long as it hurts no one. Hurt someone else and I'd be the first to step in.
My son recently told me that his new girlfriend's mother is a lesbian. I told him then his girlfriend has nothing to be concerned with as far as we were concerned; her mother's lifestyle is fine with us.
Thanks dudess for the thread.
P.S. I have 5 spoiled housecats
Carla
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