Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Oh my, Bec! Whammy, whammy, whammy! I'm so glad we can console and encourage each other.
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Bec, I'm so sorry. Is there nothing more that a PS can do? Maybe talk with another? And now, of course the business would close. I felt when I was going through BC treatment that the problems would never stop. I wish we could get off the planet and take care of the BC without having to handle numerous other fires at the same time. Thanks for sharing the poem. You will get through this.
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(((( Bec )))) I am so sorry to hear about your expander and infection. No wonder you are sad and angry. And then finding out about your job .. that is a lot to have happen all at once.
Sending you hugs,
Bren
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Bec, I'm sorry that you have to deal with so much right now. I am happy with my choice of not having reconstruction but I hope that you're able to get another opinion and maybe there are other options for reconstruction if this is what you want. I hope that other employment options open to you also. Sending hugs and positive thoughts.
Edited for clarity.0 -
Thanks guys - really does make me feel better! It will be alright eventually & I know it could be much worse.
You know how friends can just show up at the right time? Well, one of my best guy friends just arrived today. We met when he and I worked at IBM and we've been friends for over 20 years. He lives on a tiny island, Nevis, in the Caribbean now.He's like the brother I never had and this couldn't be a better time for him to be in town.
My husband and him are cooking dinner for me tonight! Sweet! The Long Island Iced Tea I had a bit ago wasn't bad either. ;-)
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Yay for men that cook and Long Island Iced Tea! I'm glad you've got both.
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I'm so glad your friend arrived just when you needed him the most! Dinner and 'tea' sound good too!
hugs to you,
Bren
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Bec
Long Island Iced tea - haven't heard that expression in years ;-))) SO sorry to hear about your infection, I had a terrible problem with infection with the expander, and the PS I was seeing just kept aspirating it actually punctured the expander, but the infection just wouldn't stop. She wanted to put in a drain, and I wanted the expander removed. Stalemate! Really, she was adamant I needed to have a drain installed.
I went to another PS - and it was the best decision I ever made! She took one look, and said that expander HAS to come out NOW - she spent 4 hours in surgery "clearing out the pocket" as she called it, put in the very small implant I requested - and all was well.
I don't know what your relationship is with your PS - and I didn't think I could "switch" once I had started with the one who put in the expanders ( MUCH larger than I wanted!) at BLMX surgery. My oncologist convinced me to see someone else. I am so grateful to the PS still see her now & then. You may want to get a second opinion inyour situation.
Sorry too about your business - that's a heckuva lot to deal with. Glad you're drinking "tea." When are we all going to the Caribbean
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the dudess. Not an athiest but would consider myself on the path to enlightenment.
joking Positive attitude is a good thing no matter where you draw it from. the women on this board are a positive source for me they have lived and fought and survived. I hope they will be for you too. 0 -
Good Morning all:
If there were one word that could act as
a standard of conduct for one's entire life,
perhaps it would be thoughtfulness.
- Confucious
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Oh, boy, can we post that phrase on every "hot" thread on BCO? Truly words to live by. That and the Golden Rule. Thoughtfulness is such a simple concept, yet so blatantly lacking in many people's every day life.
My intention for today--be thoughtful.
What ever happened to our founder, thedudess? Anyone know? Last log-in over a year ago. I'm thankful she started this thread and we can keep it calm.
A magical thinking moment came yesterday from some "believing" friends. My Dad's favorite college basketball team won a big game against their rival. He would have loved it, and I miss sharing those momemnts with him. But someone told me, "Oh, he knows about it. He was watching from heaven. He's happy." Maybe words like that make them feel comforted or whatever. I just let it go. To me, dead is dead. Is that harsh? To many, it's unthinkable. They need the peace of mind that their loved ones are "looking down" on them. Magical thinking, to me.
Everyone have a thoughtful and thought-provoking day.
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Yes, I also see this as "magical thinking." It was one of the hardest things I had to grapple with when I was approaching my non-believer status years ago. It is SO comforting to think that death is not the end and that we will see all our loved ones again.
On alternate Tuesdays <grin>, I sometimes believe in reincarnation. Perhaps that would explain why some people we meet feel like "old souls" or people we have known for a long time. And it would be a nice recycling program for our life force, experiences, whatever.
Most of the time, I comfort myself with the thought that matter cannot be created nor destroyed. The molecules that make up our bodies once came from the stars and they eventually will go back there. We are star stuff, according to Carl Sagan. Without beginning and without end.
But do our personalities persist through the transformations? I don't think so. (Except maybe on alternative Tuesdays.) LOL
--CindyMN
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But I would never, NEVER debate about this with a believer. To me, that would be as cruel as telling a young child there is no Santa Claus. Not thoughtful at all. Their belief doesn't harm me, so I just keep quiet and nod.
--CindyMN
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chumfry,
I agree. I realized my lack of belief in a creator god at an early age. No one tried to influence me. Many people need magical thinking just to get through their days. As long as they don't try to force their fantasies on me, I have no problem with it.
While I don't believe in reincarnation, I do believe in physics. Our component parts are recycled and information (about us) is not lost although physicists are still working out the equations. http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/34239
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Thank you, flannelette and Confucious.
I've got several friends who are Hindu, and one of them once told me something I loved and still love, that there is a "tradition" in their teaching, which is that before you say anything, you put it through 3 filters in your mind:
1) Is it the truth?
2) Is it necessary?
3) Is it kind?
Hope everyone is staying warm.
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True, as Joni Mitchell said too - we are stardust. I learned this in my astronomy class and it was mind -blowing. Large stars had to shrink and die to create the heavy atoms in the early times of the universe and then explode to shoot them out to eventually make us - our sun and the planets and us - and so we will explode one day.
I wonder if physicists will ever work out the equations? the Taoists knew all about recylcing 2500 years ago, and were ok with it. This poem -sorry it's a bit long , is from The Way of Chuang Tzu translated by Thomas Merton (a Trappist monk, some call him a Christian mystic)
Metamorphosis
Four men got in a discussion. Each one said:
"Who knows how
To have the Void for his head
To have Life as his backbone
And Death for his tail?
He shall be my friend!"
At this they all looked at one another
Saw they agreed,
Burst out laughing
And became friends.
Then one of them fell ill
And another went to see him.
"Great is the Maker," said the sick one
"Who has made me as I am!
I am so doubled up
My guts are over my head;
Upon my navel I rest my cheek;
My shoulders stand out
Beyond my neck;
My crown is an ulcer
Surveying the sky;
My body is chaos
But my mind is in order."
He dragged himself to the well,
Saw his reflection, and declared,
"What a mess
He has made of me!"
His friend asked:
"Are you discouraged?"
"Not at all! Why should I be?
If He takes me apart
And makes a rooster
Of my left shoulder
I shall announce the dawn.
If He makes a crossbow
Of my right shoulder
I shall procure roast duck.
If my buttocks turn into wheels
And if my spirit is a horse
I will hitch myself up and ride around
In my own wagon!
There is a time for putting together
And another time for taking apart.
He who understands
This course of events
Takes each new state
In its proper time
With neither sorrow nor joy.
The ancients said: "The hanged man
Cannot cut himself down.'
But in due time Nature is stronger
Than all his ropes and bonds.
It was always so.
Where is there a reason
To be discouraged?"
.
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Oh well, nothing like a good long poem to lull everyone to sleep
here's a short one:
I observe myself
and I come to know others.
- Lao-tzu
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The first poem was so calming to me. There's not much left to say after that. Thanks.
The second one is interesting. I often think I know myself better after observing others. I should think more introspectively, perhaps? No, I do thnk there are two sides to this coin...
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Flannelette, I liked your poems, thank you.
I ran across a mantra that I can't find any attribution for, but I like it:
"May I be filled with loving kindness
May I be happy, and healthyMay I accept myself in the moment right as I amMay all sentient beings, be at peace, and free from suffering.And if all else fails… laugh."0 -
I understand that many people believe that a "positive attitude" is important. But what is a positive attitude? It's different to everyone, yet people say it as though anyone within hearing distance will instantly understand, like "family values" (Also different to everyone). To me, it comes across as criticism--somehow I've failed. It's as confusing to me as the popular saying, "It's God's will." What does it mean? That I smile constantly? That I behave as if nothing is wrong? That I dismiss my feelings of fear, despair, anger and sadness? Am I not entitled to my feelings? Are they not there to help me process what's happened to me?
No offense to anyone who believes in a positive attitude, whatever it is to you, but I don't need the extra guilt of not living up to another's expectations. There's no right or wrong way to have breast cancer.
I'll take one of those Long Island teas now.
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River Rat
sounds like Tibetan Buddhism - lovely.
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Maya,
I think I understand what you are saying and I agree that a positive attitude is certainly subject to lots of interpretation. And of course there can be no one right single way to deal with breast cancer or any kind of cancer. I suspect that the need to have our feelings understood is the reason that we find ourselves hanging out together with other breast cancer patients. Or cancer patients for that matter--we can tease each other and make comments others might find morbid or insensitive without fear.
I do try to keep maintain the idea that whatever comes, I can handle it. I try to maintain the idea that I can cope. I do not, obviously, tie the experience to god's will or whatever.
I suspect people tend to tell cancer patients to keep positive because they don't know what to say---I have probably been guilty of that. Of course there is also the element of magical thinking....if only it were that easy, to think and have it be so! Wouldn't that have been easier on the Egyptians all these years?
Best wishes for the weekend!
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Maya2, I'm sorry if you were upset. I didn't see any of the poems as being about maintaining a positive attitude, if I had I wouldn't have liked them. I hate that pressure. To me they were about accepting what you can't change.
I know my response to them is colored by my experience. Not quite five years ago began what I call either "my nightmare" or "my adventure" depending on my mood. Within 1 1/2 years time I was dx'd with breast cancer, DCIS high nuclear grade, comedo, appearing very aggressive, had BMX, two months later, trip to ER dx'd another cancer. There were times when dark humor was the only thing that was getting me through. I wouldn't say that I had a positive attitude, I was just gritting my teeth and living.
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Sometimes I think all we've got left is some grit to hang on! I try to have an attitude of thoughtfulness and gratitude as opposed to positive 'rah, rah, rah' type of thinking. Perpetually peppy, happy yappy people drive me nuts.
I think having gratitude about something, no matter how insignificant, helps me. I surely am not grateful about the cancer, but today the sun came out, so I'm grateful for that.
River rat .. hugs to you and the tough journey you've been on the past five years.
Bren
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There wasn't anything in the poems that bothered me. But I keep hearing from our patients, they're being told by family and friends to have a positive attitude like that will solve everything. I was told the same thing when I went through it 9 years ago--by my mother! That's all she said. No, I'm sorry. No, how can I help. I do agree that we need to feel we can cope and get through it.
I too, had multiple things happen. First the diagnosis at a particularly happy time in my life, then my family took a powder along with a couple friends. I was devastated. When I finally got through treatment my husband died suddenly, followed by having to settle his business affairs, sell our flat and buy a smaller one in a country where I barely spoke the language. At the time I didn't yet have a job and I was very concerned about whether I could survive. I guess I went the grit route too.
Obviously I did survive, but it wasn't without crying, breaking a few dishes and getting really angry from time to time. When someone is told to get a positive attitude it just seems to make things worse rather than being helpful. It was as confusing and painful to me as being told to "let go and let God." Say what? I just had to vent. Thanks for listening.
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Oh, Bren! I'm stealing your "happy yappy" phrase, because it's so perfect. Those types of people make me nuts, too. The "positive attitude" people are almost as annoying as the "you're so brave" people. It's not bravery that gets us through, it's sheer stubbornness and grit.
--CindyMN
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Maya2, I don't think it would be possible to go through what you've gone through without crying, getting angry, venting in whatever fashion. My heart goes out to you. I too hated being told, and was told with some regularity that I needed to keep a positive attitude. I almost killed my shrink early on because he spouted that right out of the gate. I simply told him that I didn't want to hear any of that "blame the patient" crap and how I had to be Polly Sunshine. I gave him an earful and I'm glad that I stuck with him because I think I taught him a thing or two and he became a very good listener.
I also gave DH a sheet of things to not say to me, which included that. He still carries that sheet in his pickup truck and refers to it at scan time.
I should have mentioned that I am currently in remission and doing well. I just wanted to let people in this space know where I'm coming from. Thanks for listening.
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so all this while I'm writing almost a thesis on the long poem, trying to show that i also meant no offense and no "positive attitude" stuff, and my arm accidentally deletes my whole post. so i go back to see if it's still partly there. Nope. but i start reading all the psots that have come in in the meantime, and I see that lots of communication has been going on, and I just had to LOL.
But jsut because I can't help it.....what we think of as a "positive attitude" is like icing on a sick cake, just a surface glue to hold it all together. Whereas the people resposible for the long poem, one of whom lived 2500 years ago in china, and the other (a christian) about 50 years ago in the USA, were both men who had the deepest understanding via their intuition that they belonged in the universe. the basic poem is chinese, Thomas merton's translation is colourful modern American, and so seems jarring. but it is fresh, and, because they are so sure of knowing they belong, they can call a spade a spade. the kind of positive attitude that is real and sincere because it stems from DEEP insight and love.
thank you for your stories - my heart goes out to all of you survivors of LIFE.
Arlene
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Arlene, thanks for facilitating the discussion.
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