flax seed oil & cottage cheese
Comments
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FloridaLady, regarding the first article (circa 2001) about former U of T researcher Dr. Paul Goss and flaxseed's effects on breast cancer patients, can you find any continuation of his research? What happended to his study in this area? Anyone else confirm the findings? I googled his name, and he's no longer with U of Toronto, but now in Massachusates, and the only references I could find were that he is now studying aromatase inhibitors and breast cancer. I'm curious if that research was somehow discredited as the standard line we are getting is to avoid flaxseed for ER positive cancers. What happened to his research?
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Awww, Strawberry, you're so new, just signed up a short time ago, and yet you dislike me so much. How could you have such a strong negative opinion, being so, you know, new here?
Oh, and sorry, but I just had to report your post. It was just needlessly abusive. So rude. So unprovoked.
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LJ, I just read strawberry's post, it was not "needlessly abusive" or "unprovoked" ... Actually, I can't figure out what your stance is .... I read your posts on oil, as I am trying to cook in a more healthful way and you are "up" on your info ...
Are you trying to "save" ladies from going the Alt route? If so, then I think you should make a whole thread about what you believe to be a cockamamy treatment course.
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Timothy, I am er+ so I avoid flaxseed and soy supplements. I still will eat edamame when I go to Japanese food and soy sauce too but that is so limited as compared to a supplement.
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Timothy: Dr. Goss' work on flaxseed has definitely not been discredited. For more info on flax, google Dr. Lilian Thompson at U of T. She has done many studies on flax. Also, read "An Apple a Day" by Dr. Joe Schwarcz, at McGill. He's a biochemist and explains pretty clearly why flax does NOT need to be avoided. For further info in the book, you can pm me if you wish. By the way, you would probably recognize him as he is a frequently sought authority on CBC.
Best,
Linda
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I was able to find another study of Dr. Goss and Lilian Thompson from 2005 (Clinical cancer research : an official journal of the American Association for Cancer Research, 2005 May 15, 11(10):3828-35).
Here is the abstract:
PURPOSE: Flaxseed, the richest source of mammalian lignan precursors, has previously been shown to reduce the growth of tumors in rats. This study examined, in a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trial, the effects of dietary flaxseed on tumor biological markers and urinary lignan excretion in postmenopausal patients with newly diagnosed breast cancer. EXPERIMENTAL DESIGN: Patients were randomized to daily intake of either a 25 g flaxseed-containing muffin (n = 19) or a control (placebo) muffin (n = 13). At the time of diagnosis and again at definitive surgery, tumor tissue was analyzed for the rate of tumor cell proliferation (Ki-67 labeling index, primary end point), apoptosis, c-erbB2 expression, and estrogen and progesterone receptor levels. Twenty-four-hour urine samples were analyzed for lignans, and 3-day diet records were evaluated for macronutrient and caloric intake. Mean treatment times were 39 and 32 days in the placebo and flaxseed groups, respectively. RESULTS: Reductions in Ki-67 labeling index (34.2%; P = 0.001) and in c-erbB2 expression (71.0%; P = 0.003) and an increase in apoptosis (30.7%; P = 0.007) were observed in the flaxseed, but not in the placebo group. No significant differences in caloric and macronutrient intake were seen between groups and between pre- and posttreatment periods. A significant increase in mean urinary lignan excretion was observed in the flaxseed group (1,300%; P < 0.01) compared with placebo controls. The total intake of flaxseed was correlated with changes in c-erbB2 score (r = -0.373; P = 0.036) and apoptotic index (r = 0.495; P < 0.004). CONCLUSION: Dietary flaxseed has the potential to reduce tumor growth in patients with breast cancer.
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I am new, only posted once or twice. In following these new postings, my thought is who ever said medical treatment would cure cancer. I have just had my last chemo treatment today. I am triple neg with no cancer in my nodes. I will have surgery in 4 weeks. At that time the tissues of both breast will be examined for cancer cells. Since it was localized in my breast and I am getthing the whole thing removed you would think I am CURED. But as we all know even if every cancer cell is dead what I get is a better percentage that I will be clear for so many years.
If they can't help us any better than that we would be wise by helping ourselves, change our eating and living habits to help delay or stop it from coming back. I read a book by doctor doing research on brain activity. One day the subject wasn't able to come so he had the test done to himself, and I forgot which test it was but it shows the brain and his partners saw a tumor on his brain. It was cancer, he took all the treatments and it was gone. Asked his doctor what he could do and was told go on as usual nothing will change it. Sure enough it came back and THEN he started researching world wide what people had found that worked. It was a library book I checked out, and he refered to other books that have been written on naturally changing your eating habits. Foods God gave us will work in many ways to slow and even kill cancer cells. Of course there are so many difference cancers, what will work on mine? I am changing slowly, it is not easy. I have started taking many different herbs and vitamins, and juicing carrots with other fruits and veggies.
There is no simple answer but I know God is in control of my life whatever happens. He will see me through whatever I have to face. He will guide me, because he loves us so much he sent his Son to die for us. Hugs to all of you, what we face every day is not easy and can be very scary.
Joyce
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Another (different authors):
"Effect of dietary flaxseed on serum levels of estrogens and androgens in postmenopausal women."
Source: Nutrition and cancer, 2008, 60(5):612-8
Abstract: Flaxseed is a rich source of dietary lignans. Experimental studies suggest lignans may exert breast cancer preventive effects through hormonal mechanisms. Our aim was to study the effects of flaxseed on serum sex hormones implicated in the development of breast cancer. Forty-eight postmenopausal women participated in a 12-wk preintervention-postintervention study. Participants consumed 7.5 g/day of ground flaxseed for the first 6 wk and 15.0 grams/day for an additional 6 wk. Nonsignificant declines were noted over the 12 wk (95% confidence intervals) for estradiol (pg/ml), estrone (pg/ml), and testosterone (pg/ml): -4.4 (-12.6 to 3.9), -3.3 (-7.7 to 1.2), -4.7 (-17.8 to 8.5), respectively. Changes tended to be more pronounced in overweight/obese women, particularly for estrone (-6.5, -11.9 to -1.2; P = .02). Our results suggest that dietary flaxseed may modestly lower serum levels of sex steroid hormones, especially in overweight/obese women.
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Do you happen to have a recipe for flaxseed muffins? I could not eat the cottage cheese/flax seed oil. I gagged, couldn't handle it. A muffin I can handle.
Oh the lady at the health food store said she puts flaxseed in a little water in the refrig every night and it swells up and starts to sprout and then she eats it in her cereal. She is thinking that is it healthier that way. Is it, I would have no idea, I might try it.
Joyce
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One tricky thing about cancer also is that some studies indicate it can use the body's own defense system to actually allow and feed its growth. I forget the actual terminology but the cells--believe it is NK cells that will normally detect adn then destroy unhealthy cell growth.
Here it is: (I can provide links if anyone is interested)
Department of Immunology, Interfacultary Institute for Cell Biology, Eberhard Karls University of Tübingen, Tübingen, Germany.Natural killer (NK) cells are lymphocytes of the innate immune system that monitor cell surfaces of autologous cells for an aberrant expression of MHC class I molecules and cell stress markers. Since their first description more than 30 years ago, NK cells have been implicated in the immune defence against tumours. Here, we review the broadly accumulating evidence for a crucial contribution of NK cells to the immunosurveillance of tumours and the molecular mechanisms that allow NK cells to distinguish malignant from healthy cells. Particular emphasis is placed on the activating NK receptor NKG2D, which recognizes a variety of MHC class I-related molecules believed to act as 'immuno-alerters' on malignant cells, and on tumour-mediated counterstrategies promoting escape from NKG2D-mediated recognition.
Maybe this is what was referred to in looking for ways to help the immune system fight cancer:
Produced by the immune system, NK cells are responsible for recognizing and killing cancer cells and cells infected by viruses, such as viruses causing hepatitis and herpes. NK cell deficiency is associated with a higher incidence of cancers and serious infections. "Our breakthrough, comments Dr. Veillette, demonstrates that a molecule known as CRACC, which is present at the surface of NK cells, increases their killer function." ...Thus, stimulating CRACC could boost NK cell activity, helping to fight cancers. In addition, it could improve the ability to fight infections, which are also handled by NK cells.
HOWEVER I did read in another cancer book that cancer can also "fool" the NK cells into ignoring and even protecting their growth. I will have to dig up more n this...very interesting.
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What about studies with premenopausal women? Is flax still beneficial?
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Let's see how I got a feeling that some people here are not interested in learning about alternative....maybe like... reading the posting?
Still eating my carrots and trying to learn everything I can to keep from ever having to go back to a doctor.
Strawberry
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Makraz, when I added "premenopausal" to my search terms, I found only a couple studies, and this one from 2000 is the best one, although I guess it's more related to prevention than post-diagnosis:
Title: The effect of flaxseed and wheat bran consumption on urinary estrogen metabolites in premenopausal women
Source: Cancer epidemiology, biomarkers & prevention : a publication of the American Association for Cancer Research, cosponsored by the American Society of Preventive Oncology, 2000 Jul, 9(7):719-25
Abstract: Estrogen is metabolized along two competing pathways to form the 2-hydroxylated and the 16alpha-hydroxylated metabolites. Based on proposed differences in biological activities, the ratio of these metabolites, 2-hydroxyestrogen:16alpha-hydroxyestrone (2:16alpha-OHE1), has been used as a biomarker for breast cancer risk. Women with an elevated 2:16alpha-OHE1 ratio are hypothesized to be at a decreased risk of breast cancer. Flaxseed, the most significant source of plant lignans, and wheat bran, an excellent source of dietary fiber, have both been shown to have chemoprotective benefits. Some of these benefits may be attributable to their influence on endogenous sex hormone production and metabolism. We examined the effect of flaxseed consumption alone and in combination with wheat bran on urinary estrogen metabolites in premenopausal women. Sixteen premenopausal women were studied for four feeding treatments lasting two menstrual cycles each in a randomized cross-over design. During the four feeding treatments, subjects consumed their usual diets supplemented with baked goods containing no flaxseed or wheat bran, 10 g of flaxseed, 28 g of wheat bran, or 10 g of flaxseed plus 28 g of wheat bran/day. Urinary excretion of 2-hydroxyestrogen and 16alpha-hydroxyestrone, as well as their ratio, 2:16alpha-OHE1, were measured by enzyme immunoassay. Flaxseed supplementation significantly increased the urinary 2:16alpha-OHE1 ratio (P = 0.034), but wheat bran had no effect. These results suggest that flaxseed may be chemoprotective in premenopausal women.
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Thanks Linda and Stacey.
Is that flaxseed and existing BC patient study the same data / experiment as the previous writing? Funny there is no mention of hormonal receptor status. You'd think that would play a signifant role in it. The study sounds interesting,but I can't understand where that research went to, as in there don't seem to be larger follow ups, given the significant results they got. It should have been earthshaking that flaxseed muffins shrinked tumours like they did. Why are all the "experts" telling us now to avoid flaxseed? I wonder what they think of that earlier work? Man, this is puzzling to say the least. Wouldn't you like to ask Drs. Goss & Thompson why this seems to be a dead end to such promising work? Sad that it hasn't continued. It sounds like they were on to something as significant as any of the drug trials, as it appeared to work in humans, not just mice.
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You know, I always assumed that flaxseed was more relevant for receptor-positive women, since it is a "phytoestrogen" and all that. But I just found this (another one by Lillian Thompson):
Title: Lignans and tamoxifen, alone or in combination, reduce human breast cancer cell adhesion, invasion and migration in vitro.
Source: Breast cancer research and treatment, 2003 Jul, 80(2):163-70
Abstract: Flaxseed has been shown to reduce the metastasis of estrogen receptor negative (ER-) human breast cancer in nude mice. This study determined whether enterodiol (ED) and enterolactone (EL), metabolites of plant lignans exceptionally rich in flaxseed, and tamoxifen (TAM), alone or in combination, can influence the various steps of metastasis, that is, breast cancer cell adhesion, invasion and migration, of two ER- human breast cancer cell lines, MDA-MB-435 and MDA-MB-231. The inhibition by ED, EL or TAM (1-5 microM) of cell adhesion to Matrigel or extracellular matrices, fibronectin, laminin, and type IV collagen, as well as cell invasion was dose dependent in both cell lines. When ED, EL and TAM were combined at 1 microM, a greater inhibitory effect on cell adhesion and invasion was observed than with either compound alone. ED and EL at doses of 0.1-10 microM reduced cell migration, but TAM had no effect at 0.1 and 1 microM, and exhibited a stimulatory effect at 10 microM. It is concluded that lignans and TAM, alone or in combination, can inhibit the steps involved in the metastasis cascade. Although more investigations are required, the study also suggests that the intake of the lignan-rich flaxseed may not antagonize the effect of TAM in ER- breast cancer cells.
~I agree that it is kind of wild that this type of preliminary research exists and there aren't companies out there synthesizing and amplifying the effect (because they seem to have the ability to do that with other substances) and seeing if it helps.
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Timothy, the fact that flax (or at least the lignans in flax) have a chemical similarity to estrogen is the reason some are concerned. However, it seems that these lignans actually fit into estrogen receptors on cells and thus block estrogen from stimulating cell activity. As Dr. Schwarcz says, it's like the wrong key fits a lock, unable to turn but also preventing the right key from entering.
I don't know about further research in humans showing that flax consumption can keep cancer from occurring, or recurring. But flax does seem to have several other benefits, including lowering blood cholesterol, and aiding diabetics in lowering blood glucose levels. But if you're interested in contacting Dr. Thompson, I'm sure she can be found on the U of T website. My experience (a long one!) with researchers is that they enjoy being asked questions!
Linda
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Thanks for the info Stacey. I appreciate it. I guess I will keep eating my flax!
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Makraz,
I also read studies that said that flaxseed amplifies the protective effect of Tamoxifen, and also helps reduce side effects from the drug as well. So hopefully it has that effect for you. After doing this research last night I was inspired again so I ground up my organic flaxseeds and ate them with cottage cheese. I call it my "cancer gruel", but I've actually grown to like the taste over time...
~Stacey
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Stacey,
I used to eat milled flax seed everyday and then stopped about a month or so ago, because I was not sure if it was good or bad. I am also on Tamox. For the several months that I took the tamox and flax, my periods were very light (used to be heavy prior to both). I also had night sweats and hot flashes on a regular basis. During the time that I stopped the flax, my period was just about non existent, and my hot flashes and night sweats were dramatically reduced. Since starting the flax again a week or so ago, I am back to night sweats and hot flashes. I am OK with all of this, it's just things I've noticed.
I am wondering if the reason my night sweats and hot flashes are worse while on the flax is due to the increased estrogen in my body from the flax, thus making the Tamox work harder to get rid of it. Does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just crazy. BTW I am premeno, 42 years old.
I haven't tried the flax with cottage cheese, I have never been a fan of cottage cheese. I do take the milled flax seed by the teaspoon full, with some organic milk to wash it down. My kids and DH think it's the grossest thing in the world!
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Makraz, I just can't see any benefit to flax seed AND cottage cheese together. Ground flaxseed with milk/yogurt and fruit is extremely palatable -- i drink a couple of glasses every morning! On the other hand, if Stacey can get her "cancer gruel" down every day, more power to her!!!
Linda
P.S. I HATE cottage cheese!
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Well, since the forum monitors are deleting, my posts, I guess I won't be back, anytime soon. What's the point.
And although this message will probably be deleted, as well, but maybe some will see it. And I just want to say that I'm doing the FOCC, for the rest of my life.
I hated the Flax Seed Oil/Cottage cheese mix, too, at first. But once I mixed it, with berries, it's delicious.
And I believe it's going to enhance, my life. If not, extend it. Without these other "treatments."
As I've said, with my 2006 2cm IDC lumpectomy, with wide margins, I refused the Whole Breast Radiation and the Tamoxifen. And I will ALWAYS refuse, any of these ancillary "treatments."
Surgery, to remove a cancer. I can understand. This other stuff, I can't. And I will never, do it.
What I WILL do is the Flax Seed Oil/Cottage Cheese. I've read Dr. Budwig's books. There is a scientific basis, to her theories.
Ha, it just ... makes sense.
It's not, rocket science. Eating the FOCC, and just NON processed, foods, is that so hard?
Not to pick on you, lindasa, but you said, in the message, above, "I HATE cottage cheese!"
Could you learn, to love it, if it would save your life?
I have learned, to love it. Mixed with the anti-oxidant berries, it's really tasty.
And I'm not just saying this, but I truly have never felt better, than I have, today. It's quite, remarkable.
And again, after my 2cm IDC Lumpectomy removal, I refused, everything else. No radiation, no tamoxifen, no nothing.
I've made the totally correct choices, for myself.
And I just wanted to offer another alternative, on this "alternative thread."
But I guess even here, you get deleted. As this message, will be.
Leia
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Leia, i believe what you are saying, some have discouraged me as well but i try to think positive and believe that there are those out there who are going to encourage me so don't give up....something you may say could help someone...it is a pity that some come on the alternative thread and try to discourage others.
my sister had bc in her lymph nodes....refused tamoxifen, used flaxoil, coq10 and other natural treatments...9 years later is ned....she did do chemo and rads....she told me if she had a recurrence she wasn't sure that she would follow the traditional route.
I had surg and rads....tried traditional tamox for 3 months....now am a natural girl.....some ways i regret doing rads.....i struggle with pain and minimal swelling around my snb site and breast and affected arm and shoulder.....and the rads was to the left side...my heart rate goes up on minimal exertion...and my ankles and feet and hands swell...I thought tamox was causing the swelling...but now I wonder if the rads affected my heart sinced it was left breast....but there are great supplements to help......
for those who may struggle with the left breast being radiated, COQ10 helps the heart and Dandelion is a natural diuretic among other benefits.....last night my hand and ankles were tight with swelling, I took a dandelion root capsule and got up twice in the night to urinate....and this morning the swelling is less....my sister has severe lymphadema,,,,and the dandelion has helped with this issue too.
flaxseed is a beneficial in so much of our health.....healthy gums....antiinflamm.....neutralizes estrogens with urinary excretion....
I do appreciate any comments from those who have been affected positively with natural alternatives....who wouldn't!!!!!
Leia, you don't get deleted from my book
God Bless you real good...
In Jesus
Amber
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Amber,
So glad for you joined us also for sharing your story. Also glad you are finding ways to help yourself.
Flalady
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It probably helps that I like cottage cheese on its own, so adding ground flax isn't so terrible.
Makraz, there was that study a few months back that concluded that women who got the worst side effects from Tamox were getting the most benefit, so that might explain your situation? Your estrogen is being so completely wiped out (combined with flax) that you get crazy hot flashes..? I don't think it's from flaxseed adding extra estrogen to your body - I'm a believer in that notion that it's a lock-and-key scenario, where flax fits estrogen receptors but actually blocks (or does not trigger) the response that typical estrogen would. It's a valid conclusion.
I used to take the sarcasm on here more personally, but now I don't. What's the point.
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Thanks StaceyR, yes I read that once too. It definitely must be working for me! Have a great weekend.
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StacyR--thanks! I love the info as I have been trying to research and find something definitive on flaxseed also. A few things--1) One reason why we haven't heard about the results of the research is that they may not have gotten the same results in vivo--in vitro is in the petrie dish. Sometimes it looks good but they can't replicate in people--or perhaps the sample size of people was too small.
2) I wonder why they were testing the effects of tamoxifen with estrogen negative breast cancer? That second study is somewhat confusing in that it looks like in small amts it is restrictive and in larger amounts it stimulates cancer growth?
I am eating it too even though I am ER+, although I eat it with cereal and not cottage cheese--although I did buy some at the store this week! maybe I'll try it. I read that it doesn't have to be cottage cheese--it's protein that makes it work however for some reason the cottage cheese worked better...
Makraz--interesting that you had some sort of reaction to the change--so it must be doing something! I also heard the same info on hot flashes and effectiveness.
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Allie, I read somewhere that even if a tumour's pathology was ER-negative, if there were progesterone receptors, it is still considered hormone receptor positive and a candidate for hormone therapy (not sure if that was the case in the study I mentioned). I don't think they understand the role of PR in BC, or how PR and ER interact. I'm not sure what the current research suggests regarding tamox for PR+/ER- cancers. It starts to hurt my head, trying to figure it all out.
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Amber, thanks so much, for your support!
And the only reason that I am still posting is that I just want to share what has happened, to me. As you shared what happened with your sister.
"my sister had bc in her lymph nodes....refused tamoxifen, used flaxoil, coq10 and other natural treatments...9 years later is ned....she did do chemo and rads....she told me if she had a recurrence she wasn't sure that she would follow the traditional route."
Well, I don't know your sister's initial diagnosis, but with mine, I couldn't justify any of it, beyond the wide margin, lumpectomy. That completely cut out, the cancer. It never made any sense, to me. When the alternative was that my cancer comes back, and I get it surgically cut out, again.
And I have been totally religious, on my followup visits. And lots of "scares," by now, but no new cancer diagnosis. But if/when there is one, I'll get it cut out, again.
One thing that has really struck me, lately. EVERYONE on this board, wants to prevent a cancer recurrence. Yet, most just equate that with Radiation and Chemotherapy and Hormones. The mere suggestion, of just the FOCC, or just "eating better," just generates .... hostility.
It's curious, to me. Why is that? When eating, better, is just a tenet, of life, itself. And the FOCC, is just a super-charged, eating better.
The FOCC is not any sort of drug, it's just really healthy food.
The reality, most people don't get cancer. Statistically. For a "normal woman," what are the chances of getting breast cancer. I think it's 1 out of 8. That's a 12.5% chance.
Yet, we've had it. Everyone on this board. We're NOT normal. And for my part, I've had two cancers. I am DEFINITELY not normal.
There's no "proof" the FOCC does anything. Other than the anecdotal evidence.
But for me, my version of "doing everything that I can, to prevent either of my cancers" from coming back, is the FOCC.
And my anecdotal evidence, after two months, I feel GREAT. And after my August, 2006, 2CM IDC, ER+PR+ HER- diagnosis, cut out, with huge margins, I don't have cancer, any more.
And after NUMEROUS CT scans, for my Leiomyosarcoma cancer, also cut out with 3cm margins. I don't have that cancer, either.
I believe, in the FOCC. Intuitively, it just makes, sense.
If we all just ate, the FOCC and the fresh vegies and fruits and no bad oils and all the rest of it, nobody would have cancer. It's not, rocket science.
Leia
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"If we all just ate, the FOCC and the fresh vegies and fruits and no bad oils and all the rest of it, nobody would have cancer. It's not, rocket science."
That's true. It's not rocket science. In fact, it's not any kind of science.
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let's be honest, most people would rather pop a pill than do the work it takes to change their lifestyle and eating habits, its hard work to eat properly, its like having another job, plus having to fit exercise into their daily routine, modify everything in their homes i.e cleaning products, skin care products etc, anything that feeds estrogen its never ending and its hard work, LJ13, I have yet to hear you say anything positive on any of the threads, it must suck to be so negative.
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AMEN fairy!
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