natural girls
Comments
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Deanna - That is funny. You and I seem to go through the same things together! I like having you for a friend!!!! When I was researching Evista some of the side effects were hot flashes, joint pain, and low libido. It sounds like Tamoxifen. I guess I won't know until I try it. My doc also said it would help with the menopause stuff. Hmmmmm such a decision, right? I thought I would wait until my hormone levels come back. Let me know what you decide! I would really like the "clear thinking" part, lol.
Patty
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I posted before I read your post Beth. Thanks for the information. I will ask my doc about all that. I wonder why he thinks it might be good.
Patty
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Yes, Beth, thanks a lot for that reference! I'm afraid that after buying into my PCP's belief for so many years that HRT (which I now believe had a lot to do with my bc) was good for me, I am extremely skeptical of anything conventional doctors tell us about the wonderful benefits of pharmaceuticals. Much of their knowledge is straight from the drug reps, and I wouldn't trust the pharmaceutical companies to ever do anything that wasn't in their own best interests. We are nothing more than $$$ to them. They could care less if a percentage of us develop breast cancer or have a stroke as the result of using their drugs, as long as they meet their projections.
On the other hand, it seems like the quote from Jonathan Wright kind of lumps Tamoxifen and Evista together, especially the potential SEs. So without reading any research cites, I'm still not sure of the actual dangers of Evista.
But, personally, depending on the results of my bloodwork and other annual tests, I'm kind of leaning towards adding Grape Seed Extract rather than Evista to my regimen. But I'll keep you posted. Deanna
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Speaking of drugs, I'm sure many of you saw this recent CounterThink cartoon in NaturalNews, but it's just so true!!!
http://www.naturalnews.com/028789_pharmacies_health_food_stores.html
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Deanna,
I just started with the grape seed extract. I'm hoping to keep my estrogen level low with it. I will know in 6 months time when I have my next hormone test done if it has worked or not. And by that time we will have the results from the Mayo Clinic trial.
Patty,
So glad to hear you had such a positive experience with your doc.
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notself....please elaborate on "too much" almond milk suppressing the thyroid.
I switched from dairy to almond milk.
I could be using too much.
Advice?
Thanks.
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Deanna....is there a reason to not take grape seed extract regardless of what you decide on Evista?
I have been taking five 75mg tablets of Dr. Masquelier's Tru OPCs (grape seed extract) for a while.
I can't remember where I read the recommendation for that brand. It was a long time ago....maybe from one of the articles in Jean Carper's book "Miracle Cures" that I read years ago.
Let me know if there is a reason you are dragging your feet on grape seed extract that I should consider.
Thanks.
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Deanna...my estradiol is down to 15...but I have no idea which of the bazillion things I am taking is accomplishing that.....grape seed, chrysin, DIM, melatonin, veg extract and the list goes on.
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Luna5,
This is the only source that I have.
Nuts like almonds also include goitrogens; this substance is known to suppress thyroid gland functioning by interfering with iodine uptake. The use of bitter almonds has also been cautioned against, as bitter almonds, when blended with water can release cyanide.
From this site. http://www.organichealthblog.com/2009/almond-milk/
I am going to finish what I made and try switching to homemade rice milk using brown rice. I'll let you know how that goes.
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notself......Thank you!
Here I was thinking the more almonds and other nuts the better.
What is the difference between bitter almonds and regular almonds?
Won't it be weird if we find out hormone free cows milk is the best thing to use in coffee instead of whatever that other whitening stuff is that they call cream for coffee.
Here I am hawling almond milk with me to put in coffee when we go to the coffee shop and it is wrong.
notself.....Thank you and keep that info coming:):):)
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Here is something I just learned about nuts. I asked my dental hygienist if it is possible that the brazil nuts I was eating for selenium and the walnuts I was eating could be discoloring my teeth.
Of course she asked about dark teas. But those don't seem to do it. Only when I eat the nuts.
She said that (I forget what it is in them) they can etch the teeth. So, I have already been wondering about the benefits vs unintended consequences. I even tried grinding them first but it was hard to drink the smoothie with the nutty grainyness.
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As far as l know hydrogen cyanide is used by many to prevent cancer. Bitter almonds may yield from 6 to 8% of prussic acid (also known as hydrogen cyanide). Apricot, peach, apples, cherry pips, cassava root, contain hydrogen cyanide - apple pips being the deadliest. My brother had some apricot seed extract which l was eyeing off...(for his thoroughbreds) and he spat the dummy at the very thought that l may consume some. I did some research way back, and read that Laetrile/B17 (amygdalin) which is given as a pill or intravenous injection, is being used in some countries for it's anticancer properties, but not approved by the FDA. Then of course we have the apricot kernel, or apricot pits, well known for containing amygdalin, and consumed by many (IN MODERATION) to battle cancer - and quite popular here in Australia. I was eating the kernels some months back but ran out. Might do some further research...
Here's some chit-chat on "The Cancer Forums" about B17 and apricot seeds...
http://www.cancerforums.net/about4201.html
It's a difficult discission knowing what may benefit us?
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Deanna - I enjoyed the cartoon. It is so right! I have been taking grape seed extract for over a year now. I can't wait to get my hormone panel. The Evista is scaring me more and more.
Luna - You crack me up! That is so true about the bazillion things we take how are we supposed to know which one is the magic bullet!!!! All this nut information is very interesting. I have been eating organic walnuts. Is that bad? I read that they are a great anti-inflammatory. I also put organic peanut butter in my rice milk smoothie in the morning. Is that bad? lol I am still trying to gain weight. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to put the pounds on?? My husband said I am one step away from looking emaciated. Nice huh?
Love to all Patty
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IODINE
Hi ladies,
Those of you using iodine: did you have an iodine test before you started using it?
After reading that many of you gals are using iodine I emailed my ND asking if I could include iodine in my supplements. She told me she does not recommend its use unless I am tested for it first .(I was just on my way out to buy it...now I have to wait and do the test).Did you all do the test first?
I also asked if I could use progesterone cream. Her answer: only if I have symptoms like hot flashes can't sleep at night etc. (which I don't). She said debates are still going on about its effectiveness and nothing is yet conclusive.
She has no issue with me using walnut oil as a moisturizer. (It may just be a coincidence, but yesterday when I was playing golf, the bugs kept away from me and bothered my golfing buddy the whole time we played. Interesting. Could have been that the bugs were attracted to her hair as she had just shampooed her hair before arriving at the golf course).
Deanna:
Loved the cartoon, especially the old guy with the bulging muscles and tiny shorts!LOL
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I am switching to unstrained, home made rice milk today after reading this. White fat is the bad kind of fat and it appears that rice flour reduces white fat. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20459037
OBJECTIVE: To observe the effect of coarse cereals on improving the disorder of lipid metabolism and the expression of PPARgamma mRNA in white adipose tissue in rats to investigate the mechanism of coarse cereals on lipid metabolism disorder. METHODS: Forty four SPF rats were randomly divided into 4 groups: the negative control group was fed with normal diet and 3 experimental groups were fed with high-fat modeling diet for 6 weeks for model building. The 3 experimental groups, the coarse cereals group,rice-flour group and the hyperlipemia model group, were then fed with coarse cereals high-fat diet,rice-flour high-diet and high-fat modeling diet respectively for another 15 weeks. RESULTS: Compared with the hyperlipemia modeling group, serum TG, TC, IL-6 and TNF-alpha in the coarse cereals group were declined significantly (P < 0.05), serum HDL-C in coarse cereals group was higher than that in rice-flour group and hyperlipemia model group (P < 0.05), LPL, HL and TNF-alpha in coarse cereal group were close to the negative control group. Moreover, the expression of PPAR-gamma mRNA in white adipose tissue of the coarse cereals group was higher than other groups. CONCLUSION: The coarse cereals could activate PPARgamma and enhance the activity of key enzymes in lipids metabolism, so as to reduce the level of TG relieve inflammation and improve lipid dysmetabolism eventually.
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Luna ~ Maybe I am dragging my feet about the Grape Seed Extract, but my intention was to see what my recent bloodwork reveals about what I've been doing for the past year, then make decisions about going forward. I haven't read anything bad about Grape Seed Extract, but I intend to run it by the integrative specialist @ UCLA before making any changes. I already take 15+ supplements, so I just want a fuller picture of what's going on in my body before adding anything else. Deanna
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Loved the cartoon, Deanna.
Patty, from what I've read about the Evista, it's the same thing as tamoxifen, except that it's not supposed to be estrogenic to the uterine lining. As far as helping with the menopausal symptoms, maybe the bones, but the hot flashes are supposed to be just as bad if not worse.
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Painterly-
I am not an expert, but From what I can gather from the moderator and more experienced members in the Yahoo Iodine group - it is not necessary to test - but if you are going to test - do the one that includes testing for bromide levels. IOdine levels can be deceptively high (false readings) in tests sometimes due to high Bromide levels. So you need to know both to get the total picture. AS you detox bromides with the iodine, it is actually possible to see a decline in test levels of your iodine until enough receptors have been cleared of the bromides.
WHen I did my test, I got a free consult with Dr. Fletchas and he told me that 80 % of breast cancer patients have an issue with organification with iodine, so he had me add the ATP co-factors to improve my organification, since my levels were not improving much after Iodoral supplementation.
I have tested twice - although I did not know enough to include the bromide testing, but I will the next time.
Beth
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I didn't test for iodine. I'm like that though. Also, I've been through 3 biopsies to be told I'm ADH and higher risk. I technically am not diagnosed with cancer, so I am a little lax on issues like that. I don't know how comfortable I would be swallowing other pills with an actual diagnosis. I think you have to go with what you are comfortable with.
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Hi Beth,
Thanks for the info. The bromide test sounds a bit more complex than the one mentioned by my ND which is loading with iodoral and then collecting urine over 24 hours and testing it. Maybe I should hold off getting iodine testing, since my thyroid is normal anyway. Or maybe just buy it for a brief time.....maybe what the body doesn't want just gets tossed out anyway. I will have a bit of a think about it. Thanks for the info.
Thanks Chevfan for your comments also.
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painterly - '
Iodine is for more than just your thyroid. There are iodine receptors in your breast and throughout your body. It has many positive functions.It is also an antioxidant and anti-carcinogenic.
There is a separate iodine thread here, plus in relation to breast cancer and iodine -
www.breastcancerchoices.org is a wonderful resource. The breast cancer choices also has a research project where you can be re-imbursed to take the loading test and get a free consult with Dr. Fletchas.
Good Luck!
Beth
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painterly, if you can possibly swing the extra bucks for the bromide test, I think you'll be glad in the long run. As for waiting to test first, it really doesn't seem like money well spent imo. If you were to get tested and find no bromide toxicity and iodine sufficiency, well, you'd probably make it into a record book of some kind. If you want to get a baseline first, that would be good information to have I suppose, but the cost of an initial test will buy many weeks of supplements that you could be taking right away.
I've been supplementing with iodoral for over a year now. I've had two iodine loading tests, both showing lousy absorption rates. My bromide level 4 months ago was 33 (desired level is less than 10). I've also been subscribing to the yahoo iodine group for a long time, and it seems to be increasingly apparent that the loading tests alone provides insufficient information. If you're walking around with toxic level of bromide, it will interfere with your ability to absorb the iodine supplements. The bromide test can be run from the same sample you collect for the iodine loading test. The iodine spot test isn't going to be illuminating of anything useful. If that's what your ND is recommending, you might want to shop some more, or if you're really lucky, the ND will be receptive to just running the tests you request.
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Thanks Beth and Althea,
I shall ponder on all this info. Thanks.
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D, funny cartoon!
Thanks, girls, for the additional info about iodine absorption etc... *sigh* I guess nothing can be as easy as just "take this one supplement every day," can it. I've never been tested (re: iodine or bromide) but I guess I need to. I had read somewhere else the other day (not here) about a woman getting Grave's disease after supplementing for three months with 50mg iodine. Grrrrrreat.
asscherhat, I have been eating apricot pits since I learned about them after my diagnosis... of course it's not good to eat too many, but I only eat 5-10 per day and have come to really enjoy the bitter flavor.
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Ack! Well, I was all confused about the Iodine thing (after having ordered Iodoral from Amazon just a couple of days ago) so I went to the web to do some research...I just read that all of the veggies in the cabbage family (kale, broccoli, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, etc) all hinder the absorption of iodine. This is what I eat every single day! Oh this gives me a quite a headache.
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Don't forget about the thread just for iodine ladies. I know it's many pages long, but I think it is worth repeating that the good folks at breastcancerchoices.org will reimburse bc survivors for an iodine loading test. And yes, the cruciferous veggies have goitrogens, but if those veggies are cooked, not so much. Soy also has goitrogen effects on the thyroid.
I know there's wildly conflicting information about iodine out there. Dr Brownstein is an expert I trust on this subject, and he clearly states that graves and hashimotos autoimmune thyroid disease are not caused by iodine and he believes patients with both these conditions will benefit from the iodine protocol. ....recommended quantities I believe are different for each.
Patty, you're welcome to take the extra pounds I've been lugging around. I hope you really enjoy some really great food to pack on those pounds you want.
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Deanna...I would really like to hear what your integrative specialist says about grape seed extract...hope you will let us know. I haven't re-researched that one lately and have been taking it for years so would like to know if there are concerns. I know this stuff changes all the time. I think I will have to re-research all my supplements every 6 months just to keep current.
I guess I just assumed grape seed extract would have been suggested already by your integrative specialist...so I really would like to know what you find out.
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Deannas...loved the cartoon
I laugh and get sickened all at once when I see the commercials about new drugs. I love the one about how if you wake up a couple of times during the night to pee that you can take a drug that may cause all kinds of horrible side effects that are way worse than peeing.
It is different if you have a serious illness requiring a person to weigh risks vs benefits of a drug. But some of the minor ailments that they offer drugs on TV for have "possible" side effects that sound so debilitating.
I even heard that that eyelash stuff that makes eyelashes "grow" not die and fall out as soon so they get longer...can actually turn blue eyes permanently brown ! I, personally, don't use anything that promises to "grow" anything in my body:)
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The drug for eyelashes started out as a drug for glaucoma. Very dangerous.
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I did consider Evista, but not very seriously, for the same reasons I decided against Tamoxifen. It had similar possible side-effects: clots and uterine cancer. My doc even suggested the 1/2 pill, every other day regimen. I just couldn't convince myself to take it. She was hoping that it would help with bone density too, but strontium has reversed my BD from 5% to 8% in one year. I'm sticking with that. No side-effects, just better bone density.
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