natural girls
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I wish I could understand why they are so reluctant to admit diet makes a difference in the Cancer industry. A cardiologist will tell a heart patient to change his diet. We know that diabetes can be managed with diet. Yet, with cancer, they insist it does not make a difference, even though there is proof out there. Like Simvog, I came out of rads with flying colors(physically, emotionally I had a hard time dealing with the whole frying bit). My radiologists kept telling me that I was going to be there example. I had NO fatique and very little skin burining since I insisted on taking Omega 3, I ate well, and walked off the toxins everyday after I left. I wish there was some way we could get them to THINK instead of just follow their damn protocols.
Gee Rosemary, now I have to start checking my almonds too! You are such a pro at this stuff! Thanks! Are you on facebook?
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Doctors are given one course in nutrition. It also means that they aren't paying any attention to recent research being done on foods and their power to heal. I'm sure they keep up with the latest in drugs, and we'll do our thing in keeping up with the latest in natural healing.
Vivre,
I don't even know what facebook is.
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Thanks to all who gave pointers on cosmetics and soaps, lotions, etc. I have to copy all that down. This changing everything from what we eat to slather on our bodies is long hard work!!!
Did you all hear that a movie called "Food, Inc." is coming out this weekend? ("The way we eat has changed more in the last 50 years than in the last 10,000") It apparently follows food from the source to our plates, and is eye opening in between. Just mentioning, I think i am going to see it to stiffen my resolve about certain things!
Of course it matters what we eat!
I had to laugh at Vivre's comment, there is nothing left to eat. I read the China Study chapter on what to eat and fish and chicken were out, totally, he was saying even 10% of calories from animal based is worse than 0%. So it is a real challenge. I figure I have changed so much recently that I have to just take my time to adjust. I still eat a teeny bit of chicken each week and I am eating fish. I wonder how to get enough protein to metabolize estrogen with absolutely no fish or chicken? Those of you who are doing all plant based, let me know!!! (This has been a real growing experience!!)
I have to also read the Block book, has anybody read that?
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I am so out of it IvoryMom, I don't even know what EFA stands for!
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I think we all have to eat in a way that is not only healthy but doable. I have changed so much about my diet, but I just cannot obsess over everything. Yes, I read labels and look for all the culprits, and cut sugar and eat organic. But it is just not possible to do it totally. I still eat chicken and fish and some beef, but keep the portions small. I find my stomach is happier when my veggies are cooked a bit, but I still love my salads. I love to make desserts, and I am content with a couple of bites. And I will have a glass of wine when the "spirit" moves me. I love the fact that we are all sharing lots of great ideas and little hints that will make us more conscious of what we eat, but I just do not think we need to be so consumed with food that we cannot enjoy it. Good food is definitely the most important thing we can do for our health, but we also need to enjoy it. Otherwise we might as well just eat those pizza boxes!
But keep all the ideas coming. The discussion is really healthy!
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Speaking of wine, I've always been confused about the antioxidants in it. Is just eating grapes as good, better or the same?
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Morning ladies! Such great stuff on this thread! I wanted to add my 2 cents to the alcohol thing, I am a recovering alcoholic, 10 years sober now yay! I really believe in my heart that my extreme drinking was a huge factor in me getting BC, I understand now from research that even 1 glass of wine can increase circulating bad estrogens by 300%, I drank Waaaaay more than 1 glass on a regular basis for several years, my liver was pretty messed up. My liver has now completely repaired itself, however in my case if I were to drink again it would return to its previous state pretty quickly, lovely thought! I just know in my heart that this was a factor for me, however I am sure not for everyone, and certainly going through this BC journey there have been times when my sobriety has been tested big time! I think with diet one just has to be sensible, there is no way to eliminate everything and just eat plants, I for one would be miserable! I guess with everything, moderation is the key and also not to obsess too much I think the stress of that is more dangerous than anything.
L
ox
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Fairy-thanks for your honesty. You are so right, alcohol does indeed increase estrogen and if our livers are so busy filtering out the alcohol, it is working too hard to chomp on all the the other junk. I was never a big drinker, but sugar was my drug. It was so hard to give up, but I feel so much better without it. When I say that alcohol is okay, I personally mean that I will have a glass of wine on rare occasions. I used to have about one a week, but now I have about 3 a year it seems. Alchohol and sugar break down the same way. But I admire your courage in admitting that alcohol was your addiction. I know how just one drink can create havoc for someone who drinks. I just lost a great friend because she got so mad at me when I tried to encourage her to stop drinking and start taking care of herself. She sent me a scathing note telling me to butt out. I really tried not to be preachy to her, but she was just making me so uncomfortable when she was drunk, and was such a sweetie when she was sober. The way she lashed out was very hurtful. So I am asking you Lorraine, should I just let it drop until (or if)she is ready to confront her illness, or should I say anything more? I have not responded to her at all because I just did not have any idea what to say, and it has been months. Thanks for your suggestions.
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My reading list is taking hits! I've requested Jane Plant's book and Dr Brownstein's book on iodine, and I can't get either one through the interlibrary loan system. I also requested the China Study. If that comes through, I'll take notes on what it says about fats.
vivre, I don't have much experience with alcoholism, but I have plenty of experience with dysfunctional behavior. I've learned many valuable lessons about boundaries along the way. We've probably all heard the saying, the only person you can control is yourself. This is the cornerstone of boundary foundation.
I would suggest that you reframe your comments to focus on what you will or won't do or tolerate. Alcoholics typically depend on loved ones for enabling. A simple solution for you, if it applies, is to cease enabling. It at least provides a good example for boundaries. You wouldn't be dictating any change in the friend's behavior, only your own as you step away from her dysfunction. If it's a matter of being uncomfortable around her when she's drinking, then perhaps creating distance is all you can do.
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Vivre, I have a lot of experience in the enabling dept. My brother and sister are both recovering alcoholics, my ex husband died at 41 from alcoholism (the drinking destroyed our marriage), and my younger daughter is now clean and sober 16 mos from a prescription pill addiction. I have been to counselors regarding this and was told to envision a hula hoop around me and everything outside of the hula hoop I had no control over and was none of my business. Very hard when dealing with loved ones!! let me tell ya!! My sister and daughter are very active in the AA community and sharing stories and teaching, they say we need to tell 'users' that we love them but cannot be around them while they are 'using'...they have to hit their own bottom and no amount of preaching, etc. will even matter to them. They are the first ones to admit they are very self centered while using and that's all that matters. Best of luck to you with your friend.
So, I was at the store last night, and was in the darn aisles forever reading labels and walking away with practically nothing! I have noticed myself not enjoying some of my meals lately. I have spoken with a nutritionist and all my drs and they all say quit stressing over it so much and eat a low fat, variety filled diet. but I do find myself stressing over it!! I need to mellow out and use the moderation theory.
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Hi guys! thanks to all for your PM's and kind words it means the world to me. Alcoholism is a very selfish disease, but it is a disease and it tears families and friendships apart. I lost a dear friend of 25 years over my drinking (luckily we are now friends again).
I shall now be brutally honest, I cared more about my next drink than I did about anything else thats how vicious it was, and it happened quickly, I didn't drink much at all and then after my divorce within months I was a full blown alcoholic. I never ever tried drugs, thank God!! At my AA meetings I am a rarity as I would say 99% of the members drank and did drugs, I am still so "grateful" that I didn't venture down that road too. I actually, was, near as damn it to being homeless thats how far I went. Nobody could get through to me, I became resentful when people tried to tell me to get help, I was angry because I just didn't want to quit! Vivre, you can only be there for your friend for when she is ready, because until she admits to having a problem (which she probably has in her own head), there is nothing to be done, people talked to me until they were blue in the face and I was steadfast in my belief that I didn't have a problem. I must say it really hit home when one friend wrote me a letter, that was easier for her than talking to me face to face, so Vivre maybe write her a letter.
As we say in AA, I became sick and tired of being sick and tired, I woke up one morning (having been sleeping my my car) and got down on my knees and prayed, I was so lost, I stayed that way for several hours. I then got up and took myself down to AA, I walked in the room looking like I had been run over several times by a truck, noone judged me, they welcomed me with open arms, that was 10 years ago. I try to help others who struggle with addiction, but they have to be ready, you simply cannot force someone to get sober. Sorry this is so long! but I have to say real quick, you can't enable an addict/acoholic, people enabled me for a while and then once that support was gone and people were walking away I think that is when I finally figured it out, I consider myself very luck for getting it, some are not so lucky.
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My onc said I could drink green tea, just don't use mega doses of it. A few cups are fine.
She also said I could juice as much as I want. I don't understand why I can take things in juice instead of a pill???? But that is what she said.
Joyce
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Way to go Fairy!!!!!! I have been around alcoholics all my life and by the grace of God I did not become one. I have gone to AA meetings with friends and learned so much about it. So hang in there and "one day at a time" can also apply to us with bc!!!!
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Lorraine ~ That was very powerful! You are one inspirational woman, as is another dear friend of mine who has a very similar story. Not that any of us are lucky to have bc, but I truly feel fortunate to have met some exceptionally brave, strong, intelligent, and inspirational women, like you, on this journey -- women that I probably would not ever have met nor gotten to know so well had it not been for bc. Thank you for blessing us all with your story. Deanna
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fairy - that really touched my heart! KUDOS my dear sister!
Deanna, ditto
Joyce, are you currently done with treatment or still undergoing?
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Fairy-thank you so much for being able to share that with us. The hardest thing for us to admit is that we are not facing our own demons. For years, I denied I was overweight. I know that this was a major factor in my bc, just as you know alcohol was for you. It is not just the poison we are consuming, it is the fact that we are overstressed and unhappy that adds to the fire. I can't tell you how much it means to me that you were willing to share that. I am in such a dilemna with this friend. She got mad at me because I went behind her back and asked another friend if she could help me figure out what to say to her because I needed to tell you I could not place any of my students in her home until she got well. Well, this "friend" said something to her, and that prompted her to write me the nasty letter, telling me to f off. I have never responded and I feel very guilty because she was supportive to me, but I appreciated her support. I did not shut her out. She is one of those people who loves to do things for everyone else, but will not take care of herself. She will cook a fabulous meal for a group of people and not eat a bite, but down 3 bottles of wine. Then she gets so affectionate she makes everyone very uncomfortable. I would like to write something to her, but I just have no idea what to say. I really do appreciate your input. If you have time to chat about it, could you give me a call?
Joyce, I have never been able to understand why it is okay for us to eat well during treatments but not supplement. It kind of proves to me that they really do not have a clue what to tell us.
I am off to the Health Expo this weekend and just found out there is an organic food convention in the city next week. I will tell you all what I learn.
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Forget the wine. I'll stick with grapes.
Fairy, I'm proud of you and don't even know you.
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Forget the wine. I'll stick with grapes.
Fairy, I'm proud of you and don't even know you.
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I have been away for a wee while and there is so much to read I need a week off work to catch up. Just wanted to add someting to discussion on oils. We cannot live without fats as, amongst other things, our brain would not function and since animal fats are not recommended it is nonsence that we should eliminate all oils too. However, oils are highly unstable and become toxic if they go rancid. Also there is a theory (explained by Jane Plant) that toxins in plastic are fat soluble and leak into oils. So we should really only use good quality, cold pressed oils stored in dark glass bottles. Of course, I now feel anxious and angry when I pass by all the oils packaged in plastic on supermarket shelves. Why do we have to get so seriously ill to find out about toxins from plastic leaking into oils.
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Hi Everyone,
I checked into the Surgery Pavilion Friday @ 6:30 am, had the Lump @ 2 pm and was home by 5:30 pm. Once the anesthesia wore off I alarmed the nurses by popping up like a Jack in the Box, insisting that I needed to walk, go potty and was ready to go home. I think I was surprised to be awake and wanted to get out of there before they decided to do anything else. It was uneventful except for the fluid leaking from the incision site 3 days later (I did not expect this but was told it is normal) and 2 additional women I met with a bc dx. That is a total of 6 since my dx in April and all with the exception of 1 works at my medical center. I am beginning to wonder who doesn't have it.
Has anyone listened to Dr. Norton's Q & A? He said that with the exception of Vit D, there is no good data available on vitamins and he also said that non specific immune stimulation promotes cancer growth. Does anyone know what he is referring to in particular? Hopefully some of you can put this into perspective and educate me.
Rosemary * Please let me know where you get the olive oils. And ..pizza boxes ..lol.... I am still smiling about that one.
Spring * the Aubrey Organics can be purchased at Vitacost or Drugstore.com and you can use Ebates if the price is right.
Fairy * Well done and thank you for sharing.. I was an enabler to adult relatives who drained me and I allowed it. My dx was the push I needed to put an end to it. Oddly enough, they are doing ok sans the emotional and financial safety net I provided for so long....Hmmm....
Also, I wanted to recommend Sprouts for purchasing Organic food. My DH shopped there yesterday and had a field day.
And there are recipes online for fruit and veggie wash. Make your own and save money if you have time.
Fondly thinking of you all.
As always,
Grace''Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway.''
John Wayne
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(((( Fairy)))))
God Bless you!
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Fairy,
You are one hell of a woman, God bless you. I am honored to know you....
HUGS,
Val
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What a great bunch of women we all are here and so supportive. It just makes me feel good.
Call to order for natural girls business: Spring you owe me the name of who makes B6 in 25 mgs. I found 50 mgs by Puritan Pride but I really want 25 mgs.
Althea, we're waiting for your juice recipe to cure hip pain.
And I buy my olive oil from a store in San Francisco who ships:
http://www.stonehouseoliveoil.com/
I notice they also sell olive oil soap which I love, but I have a much closer supplier for that. In case your enticed to try their soap, no lavender. Lavender shampoo caused some male kids to grow breasts.
End of business.
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Grace,
I hope your feeling well. Did you do the ice packs? I agree with your statement of who doesn't have it? I know 13 people who had/has this disease. I thought that was way too many for one person to know, most of them are friends. When I began to count them up, I was shocked by the number. They live all over the country so it isn't something here in the water.
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Meg,
Do you get their blood orange? Perfect for dipping. The persian lime is wonderful for stir-fry veggies. It gives them zest. I also tend to forget about nut oils on salads. Like a spinach salad, add some pine nuts or chopped walnuts, with a nut oil. Terrific flavor.
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Lorraine, Wow, thank you for sharing. My husband does not drink, he's an alcoholic, so I have found it easy to give up wine so far. I still cook with it though! I think my not drinking wine is hardest on my father in law, as he wants me to taste new ones he gets! We used to enjoy this together. ah well....
Vivre, you are right. This is a journey and we just need to figure out what works for us, and face our personal deamons. I'm sticking to some chicken and fish! Kari, I hear you. I have been there too lately wondering what in the world I should buy or eat!!!
In the China study, (whether you agree with it or not, I know there is some controversy) he mentioned something that I thought was good advice for any huge change in eating, in this case, he was talking about eating vegeterian for a month to try it out. He said one of the keys was to "find a few recipes you really like". I have been thinking of that and trying to find/create some recipes that are wonderful and healthy!
Speaking of which! I have not tried this yet, it was from Dr. Weil's website, but thought I would share as summer is a-coming and this looks like it may be an alternative to ice cream!
Bananas are rich in potassium - one banana contains 450 mg, one-fifth of the adult daily requirement - and offer a fair share of magnesium (33 mg), too.
Ingredients
4 very ripe bananas
2 tablespoons pure unsweetened cocoa powder
1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
2 tablespoons real maple syrup
Instructions
1. Peel the bananas and place in a blender or food processor along with the cocoa powder.2. Add the vanilla extract and the maple syrup.
3. Blend till very smooth. Pour into individual custard cups or small bowls and freeze until just frozen.
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You all made me cry! but good crying! Thank you so much for all of your kind words and support, I don't know how I would have got through all this BC crap without all of you!
Lorraine ox
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Spring--be careful that you don't take one book as gospel. That sounds pretty radical to me and you (we all) need protein. Especially if you only eat natural or organic chicken and wild fish that is low in mercury. I find Dr Weil to be a good source in that he is trained as a medical MD but specializes in integrative medicine which e defines as:
Integrative medicine is healing-oriented medicine that takes account of the whole person (body, mind, and spirit), including all aspects of lifestyle. It emphasizes the therapeutic relationship and makes use of all appropriate therapies, both conventional and alternative.
Again he isn't the only source--I read a lot!
Yes I was just discussing that movie this morning with my husband. Looks good.
And ddlatt--that video was great! thanks for posting. A lot of review (for we "experts") but some new info too and I appreciate hearing his take on topical issues like alcohol consumption.
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I just realized I missed a bunch on this page and had to go back and read!
Fairy thanks for telling your personal story--also Kari. There is so much sometimes that we are asked to deal with...luckily there are good friends along the way!
(OK, now I am getting teared up...!)Joyce--my understanding on why some things are ok in their natural format (i.e., juice or food) and not in pill form is that 1) it's easier to possibly get too much in pill form and 2) when things are broken out of their natural element and nutrients are separated you may get a different effect than taking the item in its entirety. They found this with people taking genistein out of soy in one study.
Grace-congrats on being out of surgery and wishing you a speedy recovery! Also I was meaning to ask if anyone was alarmed by that part of the video. Especially since I just started taking a whole slew of supplements! I am not surprised about him saying that not a lot is documented as being directly beneficial--I have read some studies about that--but I AM surprised that he thinks some may be detrimental. Yikes. I wish he had elaborated on that...
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Grace ~ I just also wanted to say that I was glad to see that your surgery is behind you, and it sounds like you're doing exceptionally well recovering from it. Please keep us posted on any update on your pathology. Did your surgeon do a SNB?
This thread moves so fast! Some days it's hard to keep up with all the information. links, questions, and things being discussed and shared ~ Deanna
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