natural girls
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Thanks for that! How do get on to the DIM thread? I am 47 and still not sure whether I am menopausal yet so it might be suitable for me. I am due to do blood tests next week to see where my hormones are at. I can't take Tamoxifen because of a genetic clotting disorder ( not that I want to anyway!) Did you do regular hormone testing? Were they blood tests done by your onco or did you get them done somewhere else? Sorry so many questions but need to know! Cheers
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Rguiff - yes, I know that Dr. Schacter does do lectures. I haven't been to one yet but am looking forward to attending on in the future. Where I live is actually very close to the border of NY state, which is where the center is located. It is actually only 10 minutes from where I live. So I go directly to his center. It is a great place and people actually travel very far to come there for treatments. As a patient, you work with a nutritionist, a doctor and if you are having IV treatments, the nurses. They recommend supplements and monitor your situation closely. From what I understand, in NY, natural docs are permitted by law to treat one for cancer using alternative methods. It has something to do with an alternative and natural treatment law in the state. NJ doesn't have that law and a doctor cannot claim to "treat" cancer with natural therapies. I believe NY is one of the few states where natural treatments are allowed. It is very whacky. If you are "treated" in a state where the laws are against alternative treatments, the wording has to be just so not to imply that you are being "treated" but more "assisted" with your treatments. I don't know it is very confusing! Anyway, yes, I do go to Schachter center. Dr. Schachter has been practicing for about 30 years and is very well respected.
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Rguiff - also, yes, nutrition does seem to be the key. When I learned of my bc, I overhauled my diet and started eating 80-90% raw foods. I cut out dairy, refined foods and sugar. I noticed an immediate improvement in the way I feel and the way I look. Since, I have lost almost 30 lbs! I will never go back to my old eating habits because they now feel like poisons to me and the key to my recovery is to STAY AWAY from those foods. Before my diagnosis, I would not have had the discipline to do it. But now, I am focused!
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Dr. Schachter also uses iodine and sometimes progesterone. He is a world-class alt med doc.
He was one of the first practitioners to investigate both. He wrote this article about iodine FOUR years ago.
www.mbschachter.com/iodine.htm
Anom
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I swear to you all, deni63 and I are not the same person even though she may sound like me. LOL
Blaircoff-I have had both blood and urine tests done to check my estrogen levels. I actually found a former obgyn who specializes in hormone therapy and she feels that urine and saliva tests give more specific information about hormone levels. She is doing urinalysis with me. More and more doctors are getting on the bandwagon and learning the truth about balancing hormones for good health. I hope you can find one in NZ. It is really important that you measure you levels so that you know what is working and if you need to change anything. That is why I hated the fact that my doctors were putting me on arimidex, without even testing my hormone levels. They toss this stuff at you, like it is candy, just because some drug company says it is the panacea. There are better ways, yet they do not even know it. Google tamoxifen vs. DIM and you will find studies that show they have the same results, lowering sex hormone binding gloubulin ratios, but DIM/I3C/myomine do not have the terrible side effects because they are basically ground up vegetables. I think you could also get the same results by eating lots of broccoli, sprouts, cabbage, etc daily, but I am just not that disciplined that I eat all day. Although I will do much better if it ever warms up around here and my garden finally starts to produce!
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Thought this was interesting about the effectiveness of chemo. Makes you wonder why we listen to doctors at all.
http://www.oasisadvancedwellness.com/learning/chemotherapy-effectiveness.html
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Vivre,
Good one.
And if you factor in the placebo effect into the 1.5% chemo benefit,
it probably comes to -20% survival advantage.
Remember chemo has never been tested with a placebo group like most medicines. Most medicines have a huge placebo effect. The goal of the drug companies is to try to exceed the placebo group % so they can get FDA approval.
But the government seems to have made an exception in the case of chemo.
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There is currently an article on the Women & Cancer Magazine website http://www.womenandcancermag.com/Content.aspx?DocumentID=43784 about the effectiveness of stem cell transplants for breast cancer survivors who have developed acute myeloid leukemia (AML). According to the article, approximately 1% of breast cancer patients with chemo and/or radiation as adjuvant treatment go on to develop this particular type of leukemia as a result of that treatment.
So with chemo, there may be as much as a 1.5% survival benefit, there are horrible, debilitating side effects, and oh, a 1% chance that you'll develop another even more deadly cancer as a direct result of the treatment???? And those practitioners providing alternatives to these treatments are called quacks????
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I asked my Onc once why he doesn't test for estrogen levels. His answer was because he doesn't. Great guy, huh? I wasn't having any side effects, I was having some minor stuff, but nothing that couldn't have been a coincidence because of age. How did I know the pill was actually working? Maybe I could have been eating something that interfered with the pill? That happens.
One would think it would be normal to test for estrogen levels when we first hit the Onc's office, so they can see what's going on before we start a pill. Maybe they don't want to know.
Vivre, good find on the chemo chart. It's pretty much in-line with what I was told when I first started this journey. Only about a 3% boost to my survival.
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Rosemary ~ Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be anything individual about "standard of care." And, come to think of it -- if our oncs tested our estrogen levels and they were still high, what would they do? I don't believe they have anything else to offer. It makes me think that for them, "Ignorance is bliss!"
As far as the "less than 5%" boost some of us opted for with chemo, someone I consider an expert on bc explained it to me this way. Because bc is such an individual disease (which they are learning more and more), you can't say there will only be a straight across-the-board 3 out of 100 or 5 out of 100 gain for any group of 100 women. If you could take 100 women with your exact body, life experiences, habits, stats, etc.,-- including not-yet-understood factors -- it could be better, or it could be worse. Unfortunately, there are still too many unknowns about why women develop bc and why some have recurrences, and I think the research someone recently shared re. women who have been on HRT as a sub-group bears that out. Of course, I had multicentric bc + a positive node with extracapsular extension (unfortunately not a subgroup for any research study), and that's what led me to finally agree to chemo. Deanna
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Big Pharma is out to get an even bigger role in any potential health care reform. If they do, we can forget about our vitamins, iodine, BHRT and other cheaper alternatives, because they will find a way to corner the market on it all, bottle it, and sell it to us at a higher cost, or just make it unavailable so that we will not have any choices but to go the drug route. Please keep watching this natural girls. If the governement takes over our health care, we will have even less choices than we do now. Read between the lines:
Big drugmakers' secret D.C. meeting
By: David Freddoso07/23/09 11:08 AM EDT
Top pharmaceutical executives are meeting in secret today in the basement of the historic Willard Hotel in downtown Washington, D.C.
Whatever they are discussing, the public is not invited.
The Examiner had received a tip that PhRMA, the trade group representing drug companies, was quietly holding a conference today of top executives from its 29 member-companies to discuss President Obama's health care proposals.
When contacted early this morning, a concierge at the Willard denied that any such event was happening today. There were no signs for the event in the hotel's lobby, either, but PhRMA signs adorned the meeting's registration table in the hotel's basement conference room.
Full details about the attendees behind closed doors could not be obtained, but some heavy hitters were on hand from the world of prescription drugs. Dick Thompson, Senior VP of Policy and Government Affairs at Bristol-Meyers Squibb, was spotted checking in late.
PhRMA officials turned The Examiner away from the meeting, stating that it was not open to the public. They referred all questions about the meeting's topics to their public affairs department, which did not immediately respond to inquiries.
PhRMA has taken a generally supportive attitude toward insurance reform, although the group leveled some specific criticisms recently against the health care bill produced by House Democrats.
In a March interview on CNBC, PhRMA president and CEO Billy Tauzin said that the bill would be good for pharmaceutical companies because it would broaden the industry's customer base with subsidies for insurance.
"This plan talks about providing comprehensive health insurance to people who don't have it," said Tauzin, when asked whether investors should worry about Obama's health care plan. "That means to patients who can't take our medicines because they can't afford it -- $650 billion spent to better insure Americans for the products we make. That ought to be a very optimistic and positive message for everyone who is interested in our sector of the economy."
The Senate health bill, whose details are being worked out in the Senate Finance Committee by Chairman Max Baucus, D, Mont., is considered much more favorable to the drugmakers than the House version. The Washington Post reported earlier this month that two former Baucus chiefs of staff have been hired to lobby for PhRMA.
In addition to the insurance subsidies, some members of PhRMA stand to benefit from another provision in the Senate version of health care reform. It creates a 12-year government-enforced exclusivity period for biologic pharmaceuticals, which is longer than most drugs' effective period of exclusivity.
The drugmakers' quest for influence in the shaping of health policy has led to an industry-wide lobbying campaign perhaps unprecedented in its scale. In just the first half of this year, PhRMA has spent $13.1 million on lobbying Congress. Its member companies have spent still more. Pfizer has spent $11.6 million so far this year, Amgen has spent $6.1 million. These companies, together with Merck, Astra Zeneca, Abbott Laboratories, Bayer, Bristol Myers Squibb and Celgene have spent a combined $44.5 million to lobby Congress so far this year.
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vivre-I ordered the book last night. I do believe there is a connection between several things-iodine, thyroid, insulin prodection,estrogen and progesterone and probably vit D as well. I will take the test as soon as I can afford it.
I am still struggling with the issue of whether or not I should subject myself to chemo.I have ruled out radiation, Tamoxifen. I am going the natural route as far as that goes. Have any natural girls done chemo?????
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Deanna,
I think they would want to know how much estrogen we have running around when we start this journey. Maybe this info could turn into a discovery of some kind in the future. Information is power, and I think all that they could get in, might lead to something.
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Just a update girls on me smallworld. I found a naturalist, who is a breast cancer survior. I will be meeting with her next week. Its hard to spend this extra money, but she is suppose to be real good, and does totally understand. I want to keep you wonderful sisters updated on what I learn. My daughter, wants to come with me to the appointment. She is standing behind me 100% of my decision to go natural, and says she would do the same thing. I have already learned so much from all of you. I try and get my exercise and eat a healthy diet, though sometimes I mess up, but start again the next day. Does anyone have any ideas to help the weight come off ? Just a slow learning I guess.Blessings
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Smallworld-I am so glad to hear you found a doctor, and a survivor too. Let us know what she says. As far as losing weight, I believe it was the single most important thing I did. I lost over 40 pounds. I did not diet. I just made a committment to eat healthy foods. For me the biggest culprites were dairy and sugar. So I cut them out, cold turkey. My insulin levels balanced very quickly and it only took a couple of weeks and I actually started to prefer all the good stuff. Family will try to sabotage you of course. I kept hearing, "O c'mon you have to live a little" and all that crap, but I just kept eating my veggies and drinking my Pelligrino while they pigged out on pasta and vino. Once you start losing weight, you feel so much better that you will remain motivated. And you must exercise EVERY day. I started out with walking, adding distance, speed and weights as it got easier. I do a lot of free weights, biking, and rebounding. Building muscle raises your metabolism, which burns more calories, even when sitting at the computer. Go for it! If I can do it anyone can. I now weigh what I did when I was married. I never thought I would after those menopause pounds crept up on me, but I know now that it was a because my hormones were all screwed up. When you get it all balanced, the weight will drop off and you will feel so empowered. Good luck!
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Smallworld-what a wonderful find! A naturalist who is a breast cancer survivor. What more inspiration is there than that. I can tell you that I lost weight by cutting out all of the "poisons" that are in the everyday SAD. Namely, sugar, refined foods and processed foods. And, I eat mostly raw foods. I know it sounds limiting, but it is actually a whole new way of looking at food. I am now eating to LIVE not eating to live. I have lost about 30 lbs that I had put in over the last several years. And it happened automatically. There are some wonderful cookbooks and books in general on how to eat more raw foods. I have amazing energy, feel better than ever before and am told I look better than ever. If you want more info, feel free to PM me.
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Thank you so much Vivre, and deni63, and that is so encouraging, to hear about all the weight that you both lost. I have 38 pounds to go. When I want to eat something bad for me, now I will think about all my sisters, that made the goal. My husband is 86 years old and 5 years ago, he was dx with lung and colon cancer. He is cancer free for 5 years now. He did go through the rads,and chemo, and now has c.o.p.d from the rads, and is on oxogen 24/7. from the treatments. At that time not much choice in treatments. We are 20 some years difference in age now, and so glad God gave me more time with him. I will keep you all updated after my visit with my doctor.
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Hi.....I just started tomoxifen last night but I don't feel good about it and I am wondering about natural supplements. I saw a thread on here a while ago talking about a supplement, it was 3 letters and began with a D (I think.) Sorry to be so uninformative! Do any of you know what I'm referring to? It seemed to be very popular and someone posted some links to articles about it, but now I can't find that post.
In any case, any information you could provide me about natural supplements would be appreciated.
Thank you!
Linda
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Vivre and Deni, you inspire us all. I am diving in (good and healthy food), thanks for the encouragement.
Smallworld sounds wonderful all the things you are doing. I know you are gratefull for your husband. both of you having to go through cancer must have been and is difficult....and you are amazing....keep us posted.
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Smallworld, that you found a doctor who is both a survivor and a naturopath is so amazing!! I wish there were more docs like her around - they would definitely be more proactive in looking at all kinds of alternatives and treatments, not just the standard protocol.
I started working out yesterday with the Firm's "the Wave" apparatus. It was very deceptive - I did the intro workout and the express abs, and really didn't feel anything, but whoa, momma, I am starting to feel the abs today!! That's such a great feeling, I haven't been able to work out for 6 months and I think I found something that I really enjoyed off the get-go that wouldn't get me all discouraged. I have the motivation, just need the staying power. Tried to convince my husband last night that the veggie burgers and oven roasted potatoes were just like his fave burgers & fries. Did that the night before last with the black bean/spinach/mushroom burrittos - that he wasn't missing anything by not automatically adding meat. am getting much use out of my healthy receipies cook books!
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Thanks Chelev, sounds like you have some good recipes.I need to find some real soon. Where did you get yours? Amberyba, I am real happy to find my naturopath. I have an appointment next month on the 3rd, and I will report back to all of you and I can hardly wait, been without a doctor for 3 months like after the mast. My oncol. was discussed with me, because I would not take his ferema, and or amox. so I stayed away, though I still see my surgery doc. Thanks to all of you girls.All my family and friends are afrid to mention the C word to me, its like it never happen, {excuse me} but I sometimes feel so alone, but its so good that I can vent on this site, and all of you understand. We are all in the same boat, and this time with a paddle.
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smallworld, I have a couple of different receipe books - one of my favorites is Betty Crocker's "healthy new choices". It gives you the entire healthiness (protein/carbs/fat, etc.) of each receipe and has everything from appetizers to desserts - and they are all healthier ways to enjoy your favorite foods. Most of what we've tried is very good, and usually just needs a little jazzing up with some hot sauce or pepper. Another one I really like is a vegetarian cook book that I have found a bunch of really good main and side dishes. I like to use a variety of receipes - try looking online for them too - I use some from foodnetwork, epicurious, etc. Good luck and bon appetite!
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SW-be careful with the veggie burgers. They can contain a lot of soy. Best to make your own,like you would a meatball, using oatmeal and an egg as a binder with any kind of cut up veggies.
Chelev-I never heard of the wave (except at football games). How does it work?
Can't remember who, but I know one of you gals had a son with a kidney stone. I just ran across this article:
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Yes, forgot to mention that - look at the veggie burger ingredients to watch out for soy if you are ER+.
The Wave is this apparatus shaped like a half moon, and you follow the exercises on the different CDs they include with it - you have to balance and stand on it, and rock for some of the exercises, and others you use it as a base for crunches, sitting on it or near it, and it is kind of cool and different. Like I said, the workout wasn't overly strenuous (yet), which is good because I tend to go great guns and then lose interest. This was easy, but challenging to keep your balance while rocking for some of them, adding arm movements or leg lifts. I am feeling it but not so bad that I won't do another workout tomorrow, and try to get in my 30 minutes every other day.
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Chelev and Smallworld - it is so important to get that exercise in (and sometimes so hard to find the time!) - but it is a big factor in preventing recurrence. Also important to read food labels to be sure that what you are putting into your beautiful bodies is healthly and not full of all the crap! I have read often that the rule to follow is that if there are more than 5 ingredients, don't eat it!
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Hi All,
I just read an article by Ralph Moss online from his "Cancer Decisions" online newsletter. It talks about Resveratrol - thought I would share. Here is the link:
http://www.cancerdecisions.com/content/view/221/2/lang,english/
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Thanks Deni63, Your right about exercise and cancer recurrance and its hard but I try to keep it up. Chelev, thanks for the tips on the recipe books, I will look on line also like you said. Do you know if there is a difference for breast cancer recipes and healthy recipes? There is so much information that all you girls find on the net, wish we could bottle it and start are own investigation, for breast cancer research.
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I love this thread and have been reading it almost every day since I found it!!!!!
Before the bc dx I had started trying making small changes. Less boxed food, always fresh vegetables with a meal, fruit always available. However, there were still times I wasn't always the best on a bad or rushed day something quick is always easier. When I got my dx and my sister said she was putting me on the juicing raw diet - I said "are you crazy". However, after reading various articles online and doing some research - I really think changing the diet will help reduce my recurrance. I start chemo in a week and a half - I'm afraid not to, but did make an appoitment to meet with a nutrionist this week to discuss changes in my diet at this point.
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Hi Jenn,
Your sister is right! Juicing, green drinks and raw foods will have a definite impact on your health. It will strengthen your immune system during chemo too! We all have to go with the treatment that feels right to us as an individual. Feeling comfortable and secure in our decision is a big part of this battle. Good luck with the chemo! Keep us posted! And, good luck with the raw! If you need any green juice recipes or links to websites, please let me know. I've done a lot of investigating about this topic and there are some great resources out there!
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Smallworld....PLEASE let us know how your appointment goes and if you would recommend this doctor to others. I would definitely travel to meet with a good Naturalist!!!!
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