MIDDLE-AGED WOMEN 40-60ish
Comments
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Barbe, fair enough, but I am still confused about the "truth" thing.
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Her statement was a little insensitive to those who choose no recon, but it was just one sentence, but apparently it offended you which I understand. Let me ask this though, why do you think that if you want recon you have no self confidence? I have a ton of confidence and I don't think I would look like a "freak" if I didn't get the recon, it's just what I want. I don't have to convince anyone of anything, especially if they think I'm not telling the truth when it comes to this personal choice. No one has forced me to make this decision or to make me feel like I have to in any way, and I certainly didn't "bitch and moan" till I got it. So you're right, we have to be careful what we post because there are people out there in the decision mode and they shouldn't be made to feel they are making the wrong decision for themselves when their inner voice tells them otherwise. In defending your choice and others who chose no recon you also put down those who did. JMHO
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Barbe, I feel compelled to address one of your posts. First I'd like to say that I generally love your candor and that you don't mince words. But your statement "I don't NEED fake breasts to feel normal. I am so sad that you do. Forget the tattoos over your fake breasts, who cares?" left me stunned. You know our decisions are all individual. You are a strong, confident woman and I'm glad that you are happy with your decision not to do recon. But my choice was to do recon to try to get back to the look of the pre-surgery me because I like myself and wanted to put the cancer experience behind me and look as normal as possible TO MYSELF first, and others, because self image is important to me. And the suggestion to forget the tattoos...! I understand you said what you did because that is how YOU feel, but to tell someone you are sad about their desire to do recon was a misstep, in my mind.
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I've seen some amazing nipple tattoos, 3D and very realistic.It's an individual decision. Every woman has to do what feels right for her. And it's a hard decision to make when you are suddenly told you have CANCER, and now you have to make decisions about treatment and recon, etc.
My surgeon and the PS I later consulted thought I was nuts that I wanted to stay flat and just tattoo over my scar. (a lovely vine of purple morning glories,, had it all picked out) Around here, recon is HUGE and most women choose to do it, especially at "my young age" (so I was told,, I'm 55, btw) I personally just knew that I wanted the least amount of surgery and treatments possible. That's why I chose the MX instead of LX and rads. But that was my choice.
Never got tattoo,, ended up with LE and now I can't get one. So I'm sad about that part.
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The tattoo comment was because the OP (original poster - you guys remember the "rules" where you aren't allowed to mention another member's name...right?) said she would get a flower tattoo rather than nipples.
My comments were MEANT to rustle up some feathers!!! Again, that was the point. I know I hurt some of you that have followed me in my 20,000 posts over almost 6 years, and I am sorry, but felt compelled to show it from another very important side. Those of us who do NOT need recon because we DO "like ourselves"! In fact, I love myself so much I just couldn't put my body through the 8-14 hours of micro-surgery and then years of tweaks and adjustments! I love you all and am sorry I have stunned some, but I got a knee-jerk reaction to that post (obviously) and I don't edit or change my posts when they have been responded to or others can't see what the following posts are referring to. May this be a lesson to all.
As for the truth comment, I hear a lot of "my DH made me", "counsellor told me I had to so I could get closure", "my friend said I'd always be reminded if I didn't" and on and on and on. It heartens me to hear "I did it because I WANTED TO". Full stop. We don't need to hear "wanted to so I wouldn't feel like a freak". That makes those of us who didn't get recon think that those who did see us as freaks? And, to say you got recon because you like yourself, well, that is very admirable, but see my comment above. At least that was an honest comment.
This is ALWAYS a hot topic among the recons and the nots. I was invited to a Facebook page by a member here called "Flat and Fabulous" (the FB page, not the member
) and all they talked about was how to "hide" their flatness and what are the best foobs!! I'm sorry, I am truly FLAT and fabulous!!!I know I am very lucky I have adjusted so well and truly didn't know it would go like this. I thought I might break-down over the passing years, but further surgery for removing my thyroid after 2 biopsies, 4 more biopsies through-out my torso and a pace-maker inserted, I am truly glad I didn't chose an optional recon.
Love you all, and thanks for the PMs...they validate me.
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Good Morning, Ladies!
When it comes to my two cents, I usually cough up a nickel...where can you find such value?
Welcome, Calico59! Your phrasing "total freak" certainly ignited some discussion. When read by ladies who have chosen no recon, it could sound like anyone going flat looks freakish. Being new here, I doubt you gave that consideration and I took your statement to mean that clothing would fit differently without boobs/foobs filling up the space clearly tailored for them. Certainly true. Some flat sisters have to experiment with new styles to find what they consider to be a nice fit for their new shape. If you choose recon to retain your former figure, that's another way around it.
Barbe, it is well known that you are militantly no-recon. That's cool, and that view definitely needs representation on BCO. To me, it represents a break from the breast = beauty mindset that has been perpetrated upon us culturally. (In full disclosure, I may have come to that opinion as a result of being a late-bloomer and having been emotionally scarred by the taunting of middle school boys.) However, we all possess a body identity. When our bodies get changed, I think some just have a stronger desire to "put things back the way they were." This is where individual choice prevails. I don't think there is a strict correlation to how secure a woman feels about herself either way. Or, shall I say that insecurity can come in flat OR double D models. You, Barbe, are very open about your BC. You have used your flatness as a springboard to educate the people you encounter. Totally support that endeavor!
Thinking about this more broadly, going flat is outing your BC to the world. It is like chemo bald, but more permanent. Now we all know that some people are just uncomfortable making their BC know to society at large. I have never seen a comment chiding anyone for wearing a wig. (I know that is a poor analogy because wig wearing involved no surgical procedure.) My point is that not everyone wants to be identified (by strangers, even) as "the woman who has/had BC" for the rest of her life. We are all in the same club, some just carry the "membership card" in a more discreet way.
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I get your point elimar, but I don't WANT to be identified by the woman with breast cancer! It's just not that obvious if you don't try to hide it! I wear flat T-shirts all the time as well as stretchy tops that cling to my chest. I worked with someone for six months before mentioning it and her jaw literally hit her desk!! She was absolutely stunned!!! (This is only one person of many who have been surprised - most people say "Oh, but you are such a happy person, I had no idea!" - like breasts make us happy....sigh.) Anyway, this one gal was shaken and began to apologize saying she had not noticed and hoped she hadn't said anything in the past 6 months that might have offended me....uh, no. We think people are looking us over and checking us out, but really, they are worried MORE about their own image and being checked out!! I'm sure a couple of guys have figured I'm just flat and sucks to be me, but that doesn't matter to me. On another occasion I had an old acquaintance say "OMG you lost a TON of weight!!!!!" I had to laugh as my breasts were "only" six pounds (think of 3 pounds of chicken wings on each side to get perspective) and I told her that I had just lost my shelf of breasts that entered the room before I did!
My arthritis is better, my posture is better, I actually probably have a better self-image without my huge breasts. I was at least a 38D since grade 8, so it's been a long haul with a big chest (even had a reduction at 45 before my diagnosis at 50). I often find it's smaller breasted women that are happy to get "new bigger breasts" with recon and I feel sorry for them as they age. They have NO idea how damaging that load is to their skeletal system!!! My neck arthritis was so bad I had bone spurs poking into the back of my throat and choking me when I tried to swallow bigger pieces. I've heard of many, many ladies that have chosen to de-construct as well....be careful what you wish for.
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Barbie, I can totally see how the freakish remark would upset you, because your choice was not to reconstruct, was right for you and a comment like that from a fellow BC patient was harsh. I imagine you reacted from a place of self defense, but your comments about those of us who choose to reconstruct were hurtful as well. I choose to think you meant no harm. Now let's move on and help each other. Have a nice day.
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The point of my post WAS to show how HURTFUL comments like that are!!!! For the third time, now the fourth, I repeat, it was INTENTIONAL.
I have never posted a post like that, but didn't want to hear the usual "oh, we all do what is right for us" and let a comment like that pass without those of you who GOT recon feel what it is like to read a hurtful post about your decision!!!
Is everyone on the same page NOW?????
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wow, page 944...how bout that? Man did I pick a hell of a time to come in and read back a few pages
Support and celebrate. Unless you're on a retreat, you've seen the ALS ice bucket challenge the last few weeks. My sister in law died from ALS in 1991 and her daughter, my niece Karen, is living with ALS right now. Our family have all posted our videos on FB. Barbe (no i before the e!) is probably tired of seeing them...I have a big family!
My point? All those videos are to celebrate our loved ones affected by a killer disease, and to support all efforts to find a cure. Luckily, BC is often NOT a killer, and thank God we have this forum to support each other whether we agree or not, and to celebrate our differences and individuality.
Hugs sisters
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Barbe, I understand that it was your intention to make a point by throwing down the flat gauntlet like that. My point is that if ever there was an occasion to do that, this was not the time. Calico59 is a Newb with but 2 posts. In that sense, she is not as well versed in the many choices (not to mention the many personalities) that we read here regularly. I am not one of those "oh, let's not scare a Newbie, let's handle them with kid gloves" kind, but I think we all look back on ourselves in the beginning to realize that our heads were just spinning with obliviousness, comparatively speaking.
You state that her comment was hurtful. I can see how it would be. What I do not see is intent on her part to hurt. You, on the other hand, intended your blunt response, and now your message is getting lost in the sauce. Others have told you that they got a little offended by the tone you took. So, this is a case of two wrongs not making a right. In this case, wouldn't it have been more effective to have disputed her comment in a less confrontational way?
Calico59, Barbe, and others, I love this thread keeping it real, in that we all don't have to be in the same mind-set about things. Like, I can never fully understand why someone with an almost identical Dx to mine makes a radically different choice. (Radical, as in Mx, get it?) But, I do know that we both probably thought long and hard about our decisions. There is an equality in that.
Flatties, foobies, lumpies, mumpies, and bumpies: I Love You the Purplest. (Google it!)
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Here's my point of view...More power to you ladies who went through surgery after surgery, with all the risks and complications that come with each and every surgery. I was thrilled to be able to have a lumpectomy and being that it was the first time I was in a hospital for anything, I hope to never have to go back for anymore procedures.
I made it through the anesthesia, I woke up. That alone was enough stress for me..
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Not to belabor this point, but not all recon requires many surgeries, I had immediate recon with a great plastic surgeon and was complete on day one, so we can't make blanket statements. I am happy with my decision and do not have horrible scars. I do have to say I don't think it was necessary to make others feel bad to prove a point, not all of us who had recon were hurtful to anyone who did not. I also agree with Elimar, Calico is new here and likely just overwhelmed and meant no harm. I hope we have not scared her away, she needs us.
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Perhaps Calico will chose her words wisely in future posts! Why is it okay for someone new to call flat people FREAKS, but not okay for me to defend the hundreds and thousands of us in this forum that ARE flat??????? We always get the short end of the stick with comments like freak, and not normal, and don't like ourselves because we stayed flat. Come on guys!! Suck it up!! She got to say her piece and many of you followed. I get to say my piece!!!! I had to think long and hard to find hurtful comments, though, I must admit.....but I'm glad you guys got a chance to FEEL what it's like to be put down. I've just heard that shit too many times on here and this comment put me over the edge. I'd like to stop that kind of thinking before it goes on to post elsewhere.
Remember, there are those reading who do not post. They are terrified to let you all know their stories because they have seen comments that put down their choices. I guess I'm the only one who has the balls to reply and stick up for us flatties.
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No one endorsed her use of the word freak (which, by your inference, meant women choosing to go flat.) Did you miss the part about TWO WRONGS not making a right? And, yes, I am going to cut her a bit of slack because of being new. Sometimes it takes more balls to own an over-reaction, than to just dish up a harsh reply.
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She did not call flat people freaks, she said that is how she would feel, you say you did not find that many hurtful comments, so why are you so happy to have hurt others? This will be the last comment from me on this subject.
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I didn't say I was glad to hurt you....I said I was glad you FELT hurt (meaning my point was made - BIG difference). WAY back up there I actually apologized for making those comments, but of course, my apology has been ignored.
No. Two wrongs don't make a right, but neither does ignoring a wrong make it right!!!!!
Sorry, digging my heels in on this one. It wouldn't have been an "over-reaction" if the comment wasn't made in the first place!! And this has really dragged on long enough. Always okay for others to deride, but never okay for an honest come-back from me.... Sheesh!
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Honest and hurtful are separate. Be one without being the other.
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Well, I'm honestly not freaky. And I honestly do love myself enough to not put my body through the surgeries and failures. And it honestly hurt me to hear, yet again, in this day and age, the rebuttal to my comments! And I honestly love y'all. And I honestly already apologized above. People are just reacting to what they are reading now, not what happened earlier.
AND, I already smiled after my angry red face in my first post (an icon I have NEVER used once!!)
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The fact you did that on purpose is probably more disturbing then if you just had a knee jerk reaction. You could have just said something like "I had no recon and I have to tell you, I feel great about the way I look". Educating someone doesn't have to come in the form of blunt rudeness that offends many people who wouldn't and didn't insult you. 3rdtimenow, and elimar I couldn't have said it better.
Take a breath and use it as an opportunity to gently educate.
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Cool, on to another subject! Do any of you have a Facebook friend and you have no idea who they are?? This woman just turned up out of no where and I have no common friends. She has posted some dog rescue stuff, which I have been involved in a little, but I don't remember adding her. Today she lost her partner, the love of her life for the last 11 years and I feel bad for her. Should I comment???
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How strange. You never added her and you have no mutual friends?? Is she actually on your friend list,, or is she posting via a rescue group site that you "liked"?I am very wary on FB,,,, it disturbs me how much info that they gather!
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Nope, says we are friends. I looked at her page and Charles, the love of her life, was her dog! I'm not commenting. I could unfriend her I guess, but sometimes she posts some good stuff.
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If you don't know her...I would wait till others respond then respond something caring but not too personal...sometimes the number of responses does help w you are hurting. JMHO
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True.
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I hate when someone has died that was a Facebook friend and they keep popping up on my feed! We KNOW they aren't active, so it just creeps me out......
Homemom, a generic "sorry for your furbaby loss" wouldn't hurt....you'd say that to a perfect stranger, so why not a perfect "friend"? hehehehehe
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HomeMom--I've had
that happen a couple of times, a "friend" shows up that I don't
know.I "unfriend" them as
soon as I notice it, common friends or not.If it's a real friend, they'll get in touch withyou.I
would not comment on the loss of the partner, not knowing who it is.Hmm, the partner is a furbaby?Well, maybe I'd say something non-specific
and then unfriend her.0 -
Good advice all around. I did just that. I made a small Sorry for your loss comment and promptly clicked the "unfriend" option.
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