A place to talk death and dying issues
Comments
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Rose - so sorry your pup is sick.
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My sweet little old Lady Flower is one with the universe. Such a sweet little dog a wonderful present to us for 17 years. She came to us at one year of age from the Yolo County animal shelter. A $60 donation for 17 years of love. Pretty great deal. She was 18. Lots of tears today.. I should have lost plenty of fluid..
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Rose, sorry about your losing precious dog, Flower. It's always a heartbreaking time. You provided her a wonderful life all those years. So sorry for your loss
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Rose - so sad to hear about Flower - it's a hard thing to do but I know you did the right thing. Sending a hug, S.
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Rose, I thought of this poem when I read about your loss of dear Flower:
Duchess
I was young!
I ran like the wind and
The world glistened, fresh and new
With each season.
Colorful leaves raced across the lawn,
Crisp and elusive.
Snowflakes danced in howling winds,
But winter posed no threat.
I was young!
Each season blended into the next,
And each displayed its beauty.
The years passed.
Your joys were mine, as were your sorrows;
Our love grew in understanding and
I served you faithfully.
Now, out of your love for me
I ask you courage.
I am old!
My sight has dimmed.
I no longer greet each season with joy.
I cannot run and my body knows pain.
So have the wisdom, dear friend, out of love,
To bid me farewell, and send me on my way with dignity.
And cherish each season that we shared,
For they are eternity.Jean Foster
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Rose - so sorry about your dog
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rose--I am so sorry about flower. It is so hard to do. My Lacey has been gone 1 yr on the 11th. I have never cried so much, ever. It sucks butt. And puts me in a really bad mood for a while. Nothing like the loss of a pet. Sending hugs!
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Thank you it just makes me cry that poem. It's so quiet.. no barking, no clicky clack of her toenails on the floor. DD3 cried.. after all since she came here at age 4 Flower was apart of her life. My DH has never been at the passing of any of our many wonderful animals (kidney failure, cancer, disease). He would be all silent and miserable saying goodbye before we even left the house. In 29 years that has always been my job and the kids. He left work this afternoon and we stayed with Flower when they gave her the meds. Sometimes you need to be there.
Thank you for your kind words everyone.
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Rose. -hope you and your family rests well tonight.
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Oh Rose...thinking of you & yours, missing Flower. Brenda's poem says somewhat what you had said....she & you knew she wasn't herself. You showed her ultimate love, in sparing her dignity, but I know you'll miss her always. What an incredible life...18 years...wow! Love & hugs.
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My heart aches for you and your family, Rosevalley. We've had to put 2 cats down in 2 months, one we'd had for 13 years from the time he was 5 weeks old (Sinbad). He became paralyzed in just a few days, from what we don't know.
He had trained us well, and there were many daily rituals that we did just for him. I keep thinking I see him, or expect to.
My sister and niece have 3 Westies between them.. Such a darling breed.
Calling them animals or pets just doesn't do justice to the role they play in our lives. I never had children and think of myself as their mother. It feels so helpless knowing they trust us totally and rely on us to make everything OK, and sometimes that means we have to put an end to their and our suffering, which takes the greatest love of all.
Beautiful and fitting poem, Brendatrue, thank you.
Love and hugs to all of you, and may we all heal from this pain in our hearts,
Calico
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Rosevalley,
Thoughts and prayers to you and your family. It is one of the most decisions I have had to make and so difficult for my children,no matter their age
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Rose - sorry about Flower. I lost a beautiful dog 10 years ago and my Dh and I cried for 6 months. I now have another who is 10 1/2, old for a big dog, and I pray he passes before me. Not many people would want and old but beautiful dog.
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I know you miss her terribly, but her spirit may very well be near you. I believe animals have souls. It's a different kind of a relationship for sure, but it may help to know she is pure spirit and out of pain. Oh, I am terrible at this. Boy, it leaves an emptiness. When I lost Peaches last year, just before I knew the cancer had spread, I started walking out in front of cars so they could hit me. I know. Very selfish. I could have hurt someone else. Yes, It is a major loss.
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Well we lost another member Barb who only spent less than a week in hospice after finding the brain mets. She is free at last. Yet another woman to add to the list. "Life doesn't end with Stage 4 really!" It's all a joke!! Everyone is just doing fine, shitting roses and having the time of their lives! Whoo Hoo! Loving this Stage 4 --- yes we adore! Until we cheer no more. RaHHH RaHHH!
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Well we lost another member Barb who only spent less than a week in hospice after finding the brain mets. She is free at last. Yet another woman to add to the list. "Life doesn't end with Stage 4 really!" It's all a joke!! Everyone is just doing fine, shitting roses and having the time of their lives! Whoo Hoo! Loving this Stage 4 --- yes we adore! Until we cheer no more. RaHHH RaHHH!
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Seriously, rosevalley? I never said being stage IV is wonderful or great for anyone, only that I am doing well and yes, my life is pretty normal. I have no illusions about how it is for the majority. Have a little respect for barb, who never begrudged anyone a moment of happiness despite her situation. Perhaps you can put less of your energy into putting me down and more of it into curbing your bitterness. Harsh? Yes, but sister, it's time to let it go.
My apologies to the rest of you who frequent this thread, but I can't be passive in the face of this ongoing harassment. It's plain cruel, deliberate and mean spirited.0 -
Please stop this right now, both of you! You both have valid points and they have been made.
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Jobur,
I am trying, but I won't be bullied. I am more than happy to agree to disagree and let it go but I won't be bullied into silence. I have pm'ed the mods and hope that they can help us resolve this, because that's what I want too.
Caryn0 -
I've had enough of it too. Wow. This is the notice we get of the loss of a sister? I don't know if I knew Barb. Obviously, not well. I hope her hospice care was as excellent as other's I have heard of. I am very sorry for her loss.
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There's a reason why threads have titles. It gives you an indication what to expect the subject matter will be. I don't read all threads, just pick and choose. I follow this thread because I appreciate the information and find it educates me. For some, this thread is too much. But ma set the tone by her opening comments, God bless her. There are many threads that don't pertain to me (example: moms with young children), so I don't read them.
This forum is what you make it. It's not one size fits all. Its not like one big library where everyone must speak in hushed tones. There are separate "rooms", go to the ones where you feel supported. Most churches have a basement where alot of hoopla goes on, but you wouldn't carry that into the sanctuary which is more sacred. We move around and spend time in different rooms on this forum depending on what we are experiencing. Find the ones that nurture you.
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Darn I feel like I'm back in high school. I have enough problems without taking on some one else's problem. If someone doesn't like what I post I consider it their problem not mine.
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Thank you all for sharing your very valid and very raw feelings here. Breast cancer, and most especially Stage IV breast cancer is not an easy topic to discuss - anywhere at any time.
We would like to second what TheDivineMrsM said, which is that there is room for all here, and sometimes we need to just walk away to another space when something is not feeling good. Everyone here is in it together, battling their battle and living the best lives possible.
Please let's move forward, together, and keep the big picture in mind.
Respectfully,
Your Mods
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I find Caryn's cheerleading offensive. I am not the only person to find the thread "Life doesn't end with stage 4 really!" To be offensive. Apparently you all think it's just fine in stage 4 land to celebrate such an offensive title while people suffer and die in the threads above and below. But my sarcastic post shows exactly how I feel every time I see another person die and there is that caustic ugly " Life Doesn't end with Stage 4 really!" Maybe it's the "really!" that I find so obnoxious. Life most definitely ends with stage 4 to the tune of 40,000 a year. Really it is REALLY offensive to post that title "life doesn't end with stage 4." Because the reality is every day, in every country stage 4 does end lives.
If you want to go running to the playground monitors have at it.
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I don't know anything of the history here, but I'm sad we've lost Rosevalley. I got so much out of her shares and related to them so much. She was funny, profane, and passionate, and a gifted writer. I realize it's her decision to not participate in this thread anymore, but I'm certainly the lesser for it.
xoxoxoxoxo
Calico
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Oh, my--initially the more or less feeble words that kept echoing through my mind as I read the posts here since July 15th. At first I thought that I would just avoid addressing the situation directly and offer words of consolation, but then I remembered the following:
Living with integrity means: Not settling for less than what you know you deserve in your relationships; asking for what you want and need from others; speaking your truth, even thought it might create conflict or tension; behaving in ways that are in harmony with your personal values; making choices based on what you believe, and not what others believe. (Barbara De Angelis)
In trying to live with integrity, I realize also that others may attempt to do the same thing and that our values may clash, what we expect from our relationships may be wildly different, when we speak our truths we may create conflict that is hard for others to bear. So we are left with a conundrum sometimes--how do we act with integrity while also respecting others and being tolerant of their beliefs and values? I try my best (although sometimes failing) to be aware of another's intentions and assume they are good or authentic intentions unless there is strong evidence to the contrary.
When Caryn created the topic "Life does not end with a stage IV diagnosis (really!)," I was dismayed by the choice of words used in introducing the topic. True, life does not end when the diagnosis is made, but a significant number of precious lives indeed are ended by stage IV breast cancer. Upon further reflection I considered that, while those words would not have been ones I would have chosen, Caryn's intentions were to offer hope to those receiving this diagnosis and learning how to live meaningfully with advanced disease. And I also assumed that those who would respond positively to that topic would gather there to "speak their truth" and "ask for what they need from others." And to that end, I respected Caryn's right to create a forum that would meet that particular need.
This topic, "A place to talk death and dying issues," is a place for speaking one's truth in the midst of dealing with various specific concerns and challenges as well. Not everyone will feel comfortable or safe here exploring some of the issues and questions that are explored, but for those of us who stick around, often in very intense and difficult situations, the exchange of ideas and feelings and resources and what-have-you is quite meaningful. When rosevalley wrote her words about Barb's death I felt her outrage toward advanced breast cancer and how it ends precious lives. I was glad that she felt safe enough to share her perspective here, to expect that her fellow members would see her pain, and to hope that others might understand what that was like for her. I personally did not feel that she was being disrespectful to Barb. I also recalled that in the midst of hearing this news, rosevalley was experiencing deeply the challenges of her own progression, a situation that some of us share and some of us fear. Although I would not have expressed myself the way in which rosevalley did, because I have a different perspective and coping style, she expressed herself genuinely. How could I not have compassion for her?
My heart is always filled with sadness not by the presence of conflict but by our inability to work through it together, respectfully, with tolerance for each other's beliefs and values, and compassion for others who face struggles similar to our own.
In lovingkindness to all who struggle to live with the challenges of breast cancer and not just those with Stage IV/metastatic disease, with respect for the memory and legacy of all who die from this disease....Brenda
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I have been away for a few days and missed the initial skirmish. Ditto what others have said, read and join the threads you want and pass on the others. I for one enjoy both "life does not end" and "death and dying" I read both and on occasion post on both, some days I feel more at home on one thread than the other. I am living with stage 4, taking the good from each day, knowing that any day things could progress significantly. I have a foot in both camps.
Bullying as Caryn said , is not acceptable in any venue. I will not waste a minute of my time feeding decension, we should all be in this together. It is with a common voice that we are strong and can hopefully bring about the changes needed for Stage 4 treatment and long term prognosis
Nel
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My thanks to two sisters who always touch my heart...Ms Divine and Brenda. This thread is a place I go to grasp some of the feelings, emotions, thoughts & yes, fears, of living the more difficult part of this journey through stage 4. I've been lucky to have responded well to treatment, so far, but we know that this disease can take a turn at any time, and I feel that walking alongside my sisters in this thread gives me perspective of A-how lucky I am right here, right now, and B-how I may feel if/when I am on a more difficult path. I can share and voice my thoughts & feelings, at the same time I respect and honor those whose differ.
We all find ourselves at stage 4 in different ways. Some w/initial dx, me-with a 3rd dx. I came here after multiple surgeries, radiation, chemo, each time feeling I was going to be cured, weeping along with my onc, who said I was one she never expected to have a recurrence. I felt as though this was my end to life...and truthfully, it was the end of the life I knew. I am always working to find the happy place to my new life..I am there most often, but not always. Did I miss the part of Rose being gone from the boards? If so, I will be very sad. Calico summed up her postings so well...passionate, my favorite. I think we needed her honesty, and I feel like she needed us too.
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Repost from the early days of Ma's thread
Jun 16, 2011 10:37PM thats-life- wrote:
For ma111 and those with children..i copied this out from a book i borrowed "When a parent has cancer" (cant remember the author, but she lives with stage IV cancer.) i wanted to write it here, as it helped me tremendously..one other line from a book, which also helped me..."pity is poison to children"
* when my children work around my limits, they are learning flexibility
* when my children respect my special needs, they are learning tolerance
* when my children tend to my needs, they are learning compassion
* when my children wait for me when i am slow, they are learning patience
* when my children see me as a whole, they are learning about self love
* when my children pick up the slack, they are learning about team work
* when my children fend for themselves (when they are perfectly capable of doing so), they are learning self sufficiency
* when my children deal with my setbacks, they are learning perseverance and resilience
* when my children continue to grow and develop, they are learning that they are worthy, independant individuals
* when my children nourish dreams, they are learning about hope
* when my children have times of happiness, they are learning about joy
* when my children feel loved each and every day, they are learning about love.
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I don't post much on this thread but I follow it regularly. You women are amazing. I, too, will miss Rosevalley.
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