Survivors who had chemo etc and are into Complementary medicine
Comments
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Wine is a treat for me now. I really do enjoy my white teas and don't miss the wine so much.
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Confusing. So, the takeaway is, if you are ER+ IDC, you are at higher risk (ER+ and ILC are the higher risk with alcohol).
Also interesting: it didn't track previous alcohol use. I went through phases. When I was in Europe, let the wine flow! Here, not so much.
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pip57
I love ice tea, but haven't gotten into the white tea. How is it different than black tea?
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White tea is even higher in antioxidants, etc, than green tea. It is less processed. Much smoother even when steeped for a long time. I make a pot of it and drink it throughout the day.
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Reminder that these women would have been treated before AIs were the standard of care for ER+ women. Women were diagnosed between 1993-1998.
I have asked that question to one of the experts in this country. We just don't have any information yet. The December 2009 study cited in San Antonio also didn't separate out women who had been given Tamoxifen. I was initially really annoyed by this, then realized not enough women to have a statistically valid sample.
So I would interpret these results to say that alcohol can increase risk of recurrence in ER+ women in the absence of hormonal therapy.
However, we still don't have enough information to say one way or the other for those of us receiving hormonal therapy.
One other thing to add to the equation (and which affected my own personal decision) is that the December 2009 study did not show an increase in OVERALL MORTALITY among women who drank alcohol (Michelle Holmes' comments following the presentation). So protective against heart disease as is consistent with other observational studies.
I am personally indifferent as to where my risk comes from. - Claire
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I dunno what I'd do without the collective brain here. I considered myself pretty smart...until I started hanging around these boards. Claire, thank you very much for that astute clarification.
I think the trend now is to focus on overall survival in tandem with BC recurrence. I still can't quite wrap my brain around it. I think the issue is, these numbers are aggregates of those who get nailed with recurrence, and those who don't and everything inbetween. That's why the "throw the book at it" approach was done with me, as I've got a longer amount of time for a recurrence. Horse trading that risk with heart disease and osteo (why I plan to fight my doc if she wants me on an AI at 40, based in part on feedback from these boards) is really frustrating and confusing.
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Claire, Do you know if the results lump al BC stages together? To me that would be a very important consideration.
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I have changed alot of my eating habits and I exercise alot more now than pre bc. I am not going to give up the occational glass of wine with a good meal. And I love cold cold beer when I have been working in the yard and sweating like a dog.
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Kira......Have to go back and look at the December 2009 study. I don't remember. I will do this and get back to you. I think summarized here on BCO somewhere.
LtotheK.....I want to point out that I had a bone density test in April and I was normal after one year of AIs. I am 20 years older than you are. Look at my "Staying Strong" thread for more information.
Everyone.....I know we are focused on breast cancer, but helpful to look at what's going on with the rest of us. Because once we go through the therapy, most of us have a much higher risk of dying from heart disease.
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Claire you are so right heart disease is still the number one killer. I will add exercise is one of the best things we can do for BC, but also for heart disease. My brother had a very major hear attack about 10 years ago, and per his Dr's info the reason he survived was because he was such an avid runner. He still runs about 5 miles per day and is in excellent health.
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My bone density is still great after 2 years on Arimidex. It has always been good. I wonder if the people who have bone density loss on AI's are more prone to that anyways?
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I am not going to deny my self of things that I enjoy, neither am I going to go crazy nilly willy. I believe that I am not going to die until it is my time.
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I think the studies show that AIs (and Tamox for pre-meno women) are tough on bones, regardless of your risk factors (though, that's not an interesting topic to me, as I basically come from a long, distinguished line of women with powder instead of bones).
Caffeine and high-protein diets seem to contribute to bone loss. There are some things we can do, I'm going to check out Claire's thread. Exercise is definitely one of them.
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Such excellent points, Claire. But also good to keep in mind that not everyone is taking an A/I (I've gone an alternative route here), and certainly not doing 200 mile weekend bike rides! So as always, I think it comes down to honestly assessing our individual risk tolerance and knowing our own bodies, as well as knowing what feels right to us, because surely belief in what we're doing also has a lot to do with it. Deanna
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Deanna, I've been using the Al's, I'm not quite ready to give them up, but do you think I could use them with DIM?
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Drinking Alcohol as a BC risk factor from the BCO files.
I, myself, think moderation is the key.
Pip, I am sure that people bone density loss on arimidex are people more prone to. Also that most people who get LE were unlucky enough to be born with a weaker lymph system. But, if you never exercise or eat calcium.....then you are increases your risk of bone loss with or without arimidex, and if you get IVs, bad sunburns, start out lifting 50 pound weights etc. on your at risk arm...then you increase your LE risk even with a pretty good lymph system.
Painterly, would you post your homemade spagetti sauce recipe? Thanks.
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Kira, I ran DIM by my oncologist and she said a. there are no studies showing whether there is interaction with Tamox (don't know about AIs), and b. there is mixed findings on DIM.
This is just me, but I made the choice to stick with supplements that look like they have a solid track record for helping BC. Those are, in my summation, D and fish oil. Melatonin, CQ10, a few others are looking like solid contenders.
I think it's just a crap shoot on some levels, and we all end up doing the best we can. I would talk to your oncologist, and share that info--they often have different pockets of knowledge that can be helpful to all (for instance, it was a second-opinion that told me Tamox can be a bone problem in pre-meno women).
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kira, I know some women do, but personally, I can't take DIM due to the severe joint pain it causes me. I've tried it twice and both times went back to I3C. So I can't imagine taking it on top of an A/I. As far as whether it's a good idea medically, I honestly don't know. Deanna
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I take it and I have no joint pain. I must say the grape seed extract and myomin give me great hot flashes.
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LtotheK: That just goes to show how long research has been going on about acidity and akalinity, pertaining to cancer.
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CherrylH
"I like to say that inorder to continue to be in good standing with my Episcopal church I have to drink wine regularly!!" Very funny. Waving hi from Chicago.pip57 I do believe you are correct in thinking that AI are more likely to be a problem in those who are more prone. I'm on anastrozole, slightly osteopenic with a family history, white, thin, small framed. You bet I'm getting bone denesity scans yearly! My first was last September. I have one coming up at the end of August.
I led a pretty healthy lifestyle before BC. The only thing I have given up is my 1 diet dr. pepper a day habit. I'm about 1-2 cans a month at most now.
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Mscal, it is fantastic. Current research would bring more to bear on this topic. Much has changed, even in 10 yrs.
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My thinking is exactly like Claire's. I have around 3 glasses of wine a week, so pretty moderate. I won't give that up because I enjoy it, and I didn't survive breast cancer to forego something I enjoy. I would not drink more and if the numbers were higher, the chances for a recurrence, as a result of alcohol, I wouldn't drink at all.
I'm a vegetarian and a runner and keep my weight down and am in my 7th year of hormonal therapy (5 years tamoxifen, a little over a year of Zoladex plus Arimidex).
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With regard to the "alkaline diet" and Otto Warburg, here's what Wikipedia says:
"Under normal circumstances, a selectively alkaline diet has not been shown in vivo to either elicit a sustained change in blood pH levels, or provide the clinical benefits as alleged by its proponents. In addition, the mechanisms by which an alkaline diet produces the alleged benefits are vague, unknown, or nonfactual.[9][10] As a result, it is not widely accepted by the mainstream medical or scientific community, and is often thought of as a pseudo-science.[11][12] "
Of course Wikipedia isn't itself necessarily a reliable source, it includes lots of links and information as a starting point in case anyone is interested in further research.
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I am a firm believer in moderation in all things. I have had great success with my Wii Fit. Because it is fun, I do it regularly. And there are many more activites to keep one from being bored.
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Here's a medical report on it. I'm currently trying to find an alternative website that might give us some clinical evidence otherwise: http://www.brighamandwomens.org/Patients_Visitors/pcs/nutrition/services/healtheweightforwomen/special_topics/intelihealth0506.aspx
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Hi back at ya, lago!!!
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Just a note Brigham and Womens is affiliated with Dana Farber. Dana Farber does the "out patient care". B&W does the surgery. (Pretty reliable to me).
LtothK The link make sense to me. I was willing to try it at one point but when I saw some of the foods that need to be eliminated I knew this wouldn't be right for me. As it is I don't eat much fruit and should eat more dairy (bone issue). Eliminating it would be bad for me. Just cause other issues.
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My onc said that you would have be a virtual alcoholic for alcohol to be a problem. Also, he said that if you had poor bone density to start with, then you would be more likely to suffer bone density loss from Arimidex.
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As promised, here is the link to the presentation at the 2009 San Antonio conference re: alcohol.
http://www.breastcancer.org/risk/new_research/20091210b.jsp
It doesn't appear to be broken down further, nor is the overall mortality risk significant between drinkers of alcohol vs non-drinkers.
I am back at exercise which helps with BC recurrence and also with things like heart disease and diabetes. My family history is diabetes (father) and lung problems (Mom and both her brothers). - Claire
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