I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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@Barbara - Never have made it to Oklahoma City (unbelievably). And actually, apart from heading to the airport, I've never even explored Tulsa. Having lived in NWA (Fayetteville) for the past 13 years, that I've neglected OK, and much of Arkansas for that matter, is a travesty. I still have yet to make it to Hot Springs! I lived in Eureka Springs for a year. It remains a favorite. And I enjoy eating every great once in a while at the Bean Palace at War Eagle.
Let me know the next time you're out this way, perhaps we can meet in Eureka Springs. The Crescent is one of my favorite places to visit, and St. Elizabeth's, whenever I'm up that way.
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Doesn't look like I'll be making it to Flat Fest. I'm still in the thick of remodeling, which is pushing me behind in all my other deadlines.
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I like the "we see beauty in this" idea. It's not funny, but it's thought provoking. A lot of people with something about themselves that is not the norm could probably relate - not just flatties.
But of course I'd buy a "this flat don't need fixing" shirt.
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I like We see beauty in this...It could even be shortened to "We See Beauty...."
But honestly I love all the ideas and would want one for every day of the week too!
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I'm 2.5 years out from BMX and go unapologetically flat. I was self-conscious at first but people are mostly unobservant so I quit worrying about it. Now I'm so comfortable I hardly give it a thought.
Once in a while I'll catch someone looking at my chest but it's OK. I used to catch people looking at my chest when I had breasts. Didn't much care for that but people will look at a woman's chest. I do it myself but haven't happened upon anyone else sans mammaries.
Love the concept but would not wear a t-shirt advertising my flatness. There's a saying someone on BCO has in her sig line (sorry I can't remember who) that I like and seems appropriate: "I'm not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing." LOL!
p.s. I was in Eureka Springs last year with some BCO sisters and it's a wonderful old town!
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I want to meet other flat chested ladies as well... Get together to just talk about our experiences I person. I had a BMX 3 weeks ago and I am really needing contact with people going thru my similar experience because for each variation of treatment we have different concerns, feelings.... What's a girl to do to meet other similar mastectomy with no reconstruction?
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Badger, nice to see you here! I can't remember where we last met up here.... and I love your "I'm not a complete idiot...."
Today I went for my first ever in my life voice lesson. I was nervous, not knowing what to expect. I pulled out the silicon boobs for the first time in a couple months - don't think they made me look a whole lot different, but I was just a little uncomfortable in light weight summer shirt.... took 'em off as soon as I got home - about 1 hour 15 minutes total wear time. Had a great lesson, looking forward to the next one, and probably won't worry about foobs next time. Still battling body image insecurity some days.
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I also love the "We find beauty in this." It's a different approach than the "This flat don't need fixing", and I like that one is is somewhat humorous and the other more thoughtful. I would definitely buy both shirts. I can wear according to my mood, but I also think different styles of expressions/slogans appeal to people differently. I mean those who will see us wearing. Perhaps we need a third! Edited to add: I guess Alexandria might feel differently about the number we create!
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My only comment on We find beauty in this - is that if you want to make a statement, not everyone will get it. We feel self-conscious about the lack of breasts, actually not as much as I did a year ago, but let's fact it, most people don't notice that we're flat, and if they don't notice, they won't get it. I would suggest, Breastlessly Beautiful - or simply, Beauty Comes in All Shapes.
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Love all the ideas...
Amazon....simply sums it up for me most days.
Beautifully Broken.... is a song by Warren Haynes. I loved it before I lost my boobies..and even moreso now.
As time goes by I find no one really notices... except the guy that stared at me in the frozen food ilse yesterday. I am reminded more of it by peeps that knew me b/f and can not fathom why i don't want any more surgery EVER.
Happy Flat Fest to All.
xo
brazos
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It is all this hot, humid heat that makes me smile. While the ladies at work are shifting their bra straps and moping up the boob sweat, I just smile sweetly and mock them with insincere sympathy. lol
Being flat has its perks. (pun intended)
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Pip, you pun cracked me up.
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How about "Breast Free & Beautiful"?
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@Pip: LOL (good pun)!
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Or... Breast Free and Beautiful [emphasize the and by using italics]
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Oh, Pip, I have phantom breast sweat sensation! I swear sometimes I feel like I'm hot and sticky up underneath 'em, and there's no 'em at all and no sticky either. It's all my wonderful brain.
I like the vaguery of "We find it beautiful." If someone has noticed, fine. If they haven't, well whatever. They might ask, then I'd tell them something. Or they might just wonder, and it's good if people wonder about things.
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Hi all,
Going to be ordering tee shirts this week. Probably will cost around $20, give or take a few dollars, once they're shipped. The price may change depending on how many I order of any particular shirt. Can I get an idea of sizes and definite interest? If you would send me a pm, I will get an order in.
Teeshirt 1. This Flat Don't Need Fixing.
Teeshirt 2. We See Beauty in This
Teeshirt 3, Flat Fest 2012
Flat and Fabulous
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hi Linda and hey PIP (LOL!)
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YOU GO GIRL!!!
Breast cancer survivor wins right to swim topless in SeattlePublished on Friday June 22, 2012Share on twitterShare on facebookVideo: Topless swimmerA Seattle breast cancer survivor whose breasts were surgically removed has gained the permission to swim topless at a city pool.Laura Myers
Reuters
42 CommentsSEATTLE—A woman who survived a double mastectomy and says wearing a bathing suit covering her chest causes searing pain has won a battle to swim topless at Seattle’s public pools.Jodi Jaecks, a 47-year-old fitness buff who had surgery to remove both breasts last year to treat cancer, was initially denied permission this year to swim topless by staff at Seattle’s Medgar Evers pool.According to city spokesperson Dewey Potter, a sign at the pool stated, “This is a family recreation facility. Please dress and act accordingly.” Other city employees at the pool blamed an unwritten city policy that required “gender-appropriate” bathing suits, Jaecks told Reuters.But acting Seattle Parks and Recreation Superintendent Christopher Williams told her on Wednesday that due to her physical therapy, she would be granted a narrow exception to swim topless at all public pools during adult lap swims.Jaecks, whose self-described “androgynous” thin physique now resembles that of a young man’s, said that swimming in a bathing suit covering her chest, left with two thin scars and no nipples following surgery, caused searing pain.“I had a lot of chest pains and I was told that the feeling of warm water on the pain would be cathartic,” said Jaecks, who finished chemotherapy in November and is now cancer-free.Seattle weekly newspaper The Stranger published a photo of her, poolside and topless, on Wednesday.Williams announced the city’s policy reversal in a news release: “Our original concern stems from our responsibility to accommodate the needs of all of our patrons. In this case I see nothing that might alarm the public.”City recreation officials requested a meeting next week with Jaecks, and plan to hammer out a new pool attire policy with other cancer survivors and experts, Potter said.Jaecks wants to make sure her privilege is also extended to other breast cancer survivors who want to swim comfortably.“Initially when I heard about the reversal, I was elevated. Then it came that it wasn't a policy change, it was just an exception for me. Then I was quite deflated. It seemed like it was a reaction that it was just meant to appease me,” she said Thursday.Jaecks hasn't swum topless yet. She is planning a swim on Monday.She plans to meet with Williams next week and ask that her exception be extended to anyone who survived breast cancer.Jaecks said cancer patients shouldn't be made to feel self-conscious by asking for special permission.Jaecks opted against reconstructive surgery. “I don’t see a need to fake having breasts,” she said.“My ultimate goal is to change policy at beaches and pools, to increase people’s awareness of cancer and the realities of the human condition,” Jaecks told Reuters.0 -
Quiet around here.
I have been going to a movement/water class sponsored by my hospital. It is specifically offered for breast cancer survivors, though some other survivors do show up. I have gone three times. I found a great bathing suit and I am, as ever, going flat. Today, another breast cancer survivor made the assumption that I was still in treatment because I do not have reconstruction.
Interesting.
In other interesting news. I feel like I have turned a corner and it was in part thanks to this thread, I no longer care if people think I am a man, if they get gender confused, if they stare at me. Phew, that self awareness was constrictive. Sometimes I will dress manishly, sometimes not, oh well.
Artistically speaking? BOY!!! Am I having fun reconstructing, deconstructing and constructing clothing. I feel inspired! Little did I know that you can take a little flap from here and move it there... Pockets have new meaning, sewing pockets into bras to carry breast forms? Breast pockets on button up blouses? OMG. I have a major affection for snap front blouses that can be taken off like a super hero. I have been shopping for printed patterned button up blouses in thrift stores, taking them apart and changing them. They -need- reconstruction
. I bought this one blouse that was an overacheiver, it needed deconstruction, the pocket flaps were removed, as was the collar, the cuffs made smaller. Check me out:
http://melanietesta.com/2012/08/a-brooklyn-day-plus-reconstruction/
http://melanietesta.com/2012/07/the-over-achiever-gone-fishin/
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Hi momine,
I am originally from South Asia but have been living in the US, MN for past 15 yrs.
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Fascinating Melly, I think in spite of my few sewing skills, I am going to rethink all the clothing I don't wear, one piece at a time.
I also think having my photo taken in a piece of clothing really helps me study what is working and not working.
So interesting to see your "reconstruction"!
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I saw a woman on a hiking trail last weekend, flat chested and with a LE sleeve. I wanted to say, "I can sooooo relate!"
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Met a half flatty at my pool program today. She was funny. Another survivor was talking to a fellow pool program attendee. They were talking medical tests, treatment.
Half flatty: Oh, are we going on The Organ Parade?
Fellow attendee: (look of suprise. Continues talking)
Half Flatty: Oh, she didn't get it did she?
Me: (shrugs shoulders.)
Half Flatty: Looks at me and says, "it was bad enough going through it once, now we have to talk about it?" Begins singing loudly in Italian.
Fellow Attendee starts talking about food.
Half Flatty: Oh good, I can handle talk about food.
It was interesting to experience both types of need. I understand needing to talk about treatment and I get not wanting to hash it out often either. I would never think to start singing loudly though.
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LOL I meet alot of survivors at my gym who really do not want to talk about anything to do with cancer.I need to talk about it all.That is one of the many reasons I come to this site.Ialso try to get together with other local members of this site when ever we can.
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Interesting...I agree mumito, I *need* to talk about it. I respect many don't, but I have to meet my own needs.
So I do this here, with all of you.
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I find this very interesting. At this point, I usually come here to talk about my transition to living flat and my lymphedema issues. When I first joined, it was all about the implant recon process, and then it became about its failure and pain. I had been attending an art therapy group sponsored by the hospital where I had my surgery, and we talked about all kinds of things. If someone was in active treatment, then we listened to news of that, but a lot of our talk centered around the impact our BC had on our lives afterward. How we coped and came up with ways to deal with family and friends. A BC support group I haven't attended much in recent months has topics for healing and wellness, but also supports people in active treatment.
I have found that most of my friends and family don't fully understand my experience, even if they ask and want to know. Too much to tell, and at some point they tune out. When it comes to explaining lymphedema, I often find that highly annoying because people seem to feel they can offer all kinds of suggestions, like I sprained my ankle or something. I know they are trying to be helpful, but if most BC docs don't have a clue about this crappy condition, I don't expect others to either. I am tired of trying to educate my family and friends about LE. Anyway, I got to the point when I was dealing with chronic pain for a couple of years that when I saw friends and family, I just wanted to use the time as a distraction and opportunity to feel halfway decent for a while. So, when people would ask how I was doing, I just said "okay" and changed the subject. My husband found this put him in a rather awkward situation, because when someone would ask him how I was doing, he really didn't know what to say and would respond with something vague like I was hanging in there. As a result, most of my friends and family didn't know the extent to which I suffered the last few years, and I felt rather isolated or removed from them at times. My relationships with the women on these forums are what kept me sane and provided a place where I could vent, share and learn so much information. It is through these women that I found my way to where I am today, and I am incredibly grateful.
I think if I were trying to do an activity with other survivors such as swimming or pool exercise, I might be interested in how the experience of the activity felt right now. Although I wouldn't mind hearing how post-BC limitations effect how they are able to participate in the activity. Pre-BC, people either talk to process life events, or they don't. When they go through BC, this may or may not change. Post BC, they might just want to move on. If I didn't have this freakin LE, I might feel more that way myself at times, although I clearly like to talk about things to process. Unfortunately, my body won't let me forget. I hope that eventually becomes more "normal", too.
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Tina, thank you for sharing how you connect and why you connect with the discussion board. Reminds me, in some ways, of the disconnect soldiers feel upon returning home from battle. I suppose any time our reality is altered in some extreme manner a disjuncture is bound to occur. I know something similar happened to me when I was widowed in my early twenties. Being so young, no one in my social circle, not even my parents, had lost a spouse. And so, no one could relate. It took two decades before my peers began to experience that kind of devastating "loss." Until then, they simply did not understand how my life, my view, my reality had been transformed. With regards to breast cancer, apart from the pain and suffering which can result from surgeries and the side effects treatment, I think many outsiders simply do not recognize the loss, or just do not know how to deal with it. Speaking of which, Mel (Melly? Sorry, I forget which you go by), I can't help but wonder why the woman would attend an activity created specifically for BC survivors if she is not open to the possibility that other women may need to talk about it. Any time I participate in a group activity with other survivors I understand that I must be open to discursive turns of conversation. If I am not in the mood for a particular conversation, realizing I cannot control others' needs/preferences, I simply choose to not attend. I mention this only because discussion between survivors is an important part of healing, just as swapping war stories is healing for veterans.
I'm a big fan of Jonathan Shay's work with veterans. On the topic of the importance of narrative in healing trauma, he states:
Narrative is central to recovery from severe trauma. It’s not simply the telling of the story, it is the whole social process. If I have suffered some terrible experience, I have to be socially empowered to tell the story. You have to be socially empowered to hear it. [...]
The first steps in the communalization of trauma—what I call this process—is to be empowered to tell the story. You have to be empowered to hear and to believe and to remember it. The final step that closes the loop—and this is one place where artists have played a role from the beginning of time—is to retell the story to others.
Homer retells the story of the Trojan War, which he wasn’t present at; his poems were composed hundreds of years after this war happened. [You need] to retell the story in a form that contains enough of the truth [so that] the person who experienced it says, “Yes, you were listening, you heard, you heard at least some of it. And you retold it with the truthfulness, with the emotion, that I can recognize.”
That’s the whole cycle of communalization: the telling, the hearing, the leaving and remembering, and then the retelling. That is the whole circle. The artist, the poet, can play a role in any one of these steps or in all of them. But it’s not necessary for the artist personally to have been the trauma survivor, or to personally witness it.Read more here: http://www.voiceseducation.org/content/jonathan-shay
* Edited for typos
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Tina and AnneMarie, I have enjoyed reading your thoughtful posts. Thanks for sharing - gives me some things to ponder and contemplate today.
I was going to attend an event for cancer survivors where the key note speaker was a prominent celebrity cancer survivor, and realized that I just was NOT in a place emotionally where I was able to deal with what I term the "rah-rah I beat cancer and you can, too - all it takes is a positive attitude to heal, even if you still have cancer - etc." I had such severe fatigue that just going was going to be an ordeal, and all I wanted to do was cry over things at that time. So I chose not to go, spent my time resting, thinking, meditating quietly by myself, and that was the best choice for me THEN. Since then, I have rejoined a face-to-face support group of wonderful women, and am willing to listen and share both the joy and the pain. Some days I would rather not hear some of the stories, but that's OK because that's what the group is for, and I accept those stories and respond as best I can. Sometimes I am comfortable sharing my own stories, sometimes not.
I think one of the differences here on BCO is that our stories and comments are much more anonymous, so we can choose to share or comment as much or little without seeing body language or tone of voice that may seem to be judgmental if we were in person. And it's easier to just stop reading than it is to "zone out" if someone is talking too much or is boring or touching on topics that are uncomfortable for us.
Going to check out that link AnneMarie. Thanks.
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Tina, Anne-Marie, and Lynda,
Thank you all for these very thoughtful posts. I rarely write, but I read almost every day, usually several times a day. Having this safe space to write or read, to be part of the discussion or to be enlightened has been what has kept me sane. Tina, something in your post really struck me. I feel most alone and invisible when with family. They know all about my surgery, but I finally realized they know all they want to know (or more) and they have moved on. My daily pain, numbness, decisions about foobs or not or which ones, bras, and my mildest form of LE are all more than they want to hear. It seems to be considered whining. After all, it is all over for them, and they have moved on. Why can't I, seems to be their unspoken question. This place gives me friends I feel closer to than anyone else, because you understand in ways no one else ever will, unless they go through it too. Thanks for being here, all of you!
Dawn0
