I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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nancyjac,
Before I had mine done I was on a thread that was talking about dog-ears and bumps and landscape deformities caused by the surgery. I had lengthy talk with my surgeon about no extra skin and as flat as possible. They had to take part of the chest wall on my cancer side so I am more concave on one side--I hate the way mine look but they are definitely flat. They offend me because they are so crooked. She told me she had to follow the fat??? My incisions are ridiculously long-from center chest thru the armpits and wrapped part way across my back. I couldn't fill a C cup-not sure why they had to be so long.
anyway this is supposed to be about you not me. There was a lady-I think named Starak. I will look it up and PM you. She had dog ears both on the center of her chest and in her armpit. She had them fixed by a plastic surgeon and i don;t think it was a big surgical deal. She was way happier. it was a good thread. I will see what I can find and let you know. I think getting it to a point where you can be happy with it is important and seeing a PS or two doesn't commit you to doing it but just hearing your options.
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Remember back when you were first dxed and every place you went someone wanted to look under your shirt? Or have you lift your shirt. How you became less and less modest becasue as I was remeinded "It's only fat and tissue".
My sister went with me to the liver doctor last week and when he came in and we were discussing possible surgeries he asked how I had healed from my BMX. I stood up, pulled my shirt up over my head and twirled in a slow circle for him. I am not sure if it was TMI or what but he burst out laughing and said he saw all he needed to see. I guess all he really wanted to know was if my scars had healed flat or keloid.
When we left my sister said 'I can't believe you flashed the hot liver doctor! You should have seen his face!" He was a real cutie-about 30 years younger than me. I am thinking that he doesn't get many old broads twirling in his exam room. I am sure they talked about me over afternoon coffee break time
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It might just be my imagination or less than optimal care from my doctors, but my PCP ignores my chest now, kinda like she doesn't want to look at it. I saw the PA at my MOs office, she had me change into a gown, but she also seemed afraid of my flat chest. Aren't they suppose to poke around for nodes on my chest wall & armpits? I'm not the least bit uncomfortable but they seem to be.
About kids & MX: When I only knew of a tumor on one side, I thought maybe I should have recon because I was sure I'd never wear a prosthesis of any kind. My son was 13 at the time. At the age where he wants nothing to do with his parents. I thought running around in workout clothes might be enough to cause him further embarrassment. When they found the tumor on the other side, it sealed the deal, both were coming off. In hind sight, I don't think it would have been anymore embarrassing than having parents.
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I went to urgent care once and the doctor wouldn't let me take off my shirt in front of him. Said it wasn't appropriate. Why, I don't have any breasts?
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Maybe we should all go shirtless in Central Park.
This really is silly. I was watching ads for the Olypmics, featuring very hot young men in just swimming trunks, and I was thinking, well, he has nipples. Why does he get to go on national tv - and my completely breastless, nippleless chest has to be covered?
CLC- I love the message you gave your daughter.
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LOL leave it to an 11 year old, they are experts at stuffing the bras :-) It made me laugh, thank you!!!
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CLC, my daughter is much older than yours, so it is not quite the same. But she has been part of the process, and I have explained to her my reasons for not having recon. I do understand what you mean.
Crystal, the kid was just so matter of fact about it. I doubt she even has a bra (she is Danish, and things are a bit different there). It was more that she seemed to get why I wasn't into it, and immediately, where so many people who ought to know better don't seem to get it at all.0 -
Nancyjac. My goodness, that is alot to sort through. A friend of mine had a burst diaphram after having a baby. She decided to have a tummy tuck to pull herself back in. The doctor removed her bellybutton without warning her or discussing it first. So then she had to go back and have her bellybutton replaced. Geez. I am sorry that I know of no orher similar story.
Flat_For_Life. I tried to speak with my friend, she had no clue what my concerns were. And Girl? WE NO LONGER ARE HELD TO THE WORLD'S STANDARDS OF WHAT A WOMAN SHOULD BE! IT IS VERY FREEING..... Aint that right. I would also say, we create a new form of beauty and womenhood in so doing.
Crystalpm? I started jumping up and down for you in sheer excitement! And you will hang out? Great! Whoowho!
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By Monday afternoon, I will be a member of the Flat Club. Had Rt MX last year, having Lt MX Monday AM. Looking forward to this with excitement. I want the surgeries behind me and that goal is now in site.
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Good Luck Ohio and my prayers will be with you. It's liberating to be totally flat... but I think it makes it hard for me not to become a random flasher. Anyone who asks about my surgery gets flashed. Even my boss.
My 22 yr old son walked into my room when I was putting lotion on my chest scars. He just stood there for a minute, looking. I asked if he wanted to see it. He said yes. Then he came over and touched my scars. He got a little weepy eyed and said that it looks good Mom. We have never been a shy family. We often share the bathroom, and treat nakedness as something normal, so I didn't rush to cover up. I figured if it bothered him, he would say so. But instead he told me it looked better than he thought it would and that it made him feel better to see it. Maybe for some people this woud have been uncomfortable, but for us... it was just a mom reassuring her son, who then reassured her.
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Nancy, wish I had something more helpful. My only suggestion is that if you decide to try to address this with surgery, see a few PS's so you have multiple opinions. I had something unusual and functionally limiting in my axilla, and I saw 3 PS's. Got three very different evaluations and recommendations. I ended up going with a guy who does recons but isn't really a breast specialist: he also has training in and does a lot of burn surgeries. He was much less cookie-cutter than the two who churn out lots of recons. I got the feeling he also cared more about what I was saying I wanted.
Dmienn, I go topless so much more now too. All the time around the house. It's hot here. Topless wasn't comfortable before the BMX. At some point, I'm sure I'm going to wander outside without thinking about it. But even my guy neighbors don't seem to go shirtless, so it really would be setting a precedent. I do think I look pretty good. I lost a little of my pecs on my left side, but I don't think it's very noticeable - within the range of normal personal asymmetry. If my neutrophils would ever come up and stay up, I really want to pierce myself some "nipples." Well, not do the piercing myself, but you know what I mean. My whole hesitation is that if I don't like it, it will have left yet another scar.
CLC, love that about your daughter. Mine (5) is obsessed with being pretty. I don't know how I produced this little person. She is far prettier than I ever was and is already far more fashion conscious than I could be if I tried. It's very weird to me. I just don't know how to respond. Today she said being pretty is important. I couldn't engage her in any further discussion about that. I asked her what other things she thought were important about people, and she started talking about a school friend who has to take care of a guinea pig. So something important that someone does, not something important about people. Still, that was actually good because we've had some struggles recently getting her to feed the cats and she clearly thinks what this other girl does is important. So not the answer to what I was wondering when I asked the question, but it wasn't a total bust. At least it wasn't my son. We asked him today about preschool, and turns out he went into outer space and saw the moon and all the planets.
Ohio, good luck.
CLC, the more I think about it, the more I think ??? about that woman's comment. I'm not ashamed of my scars. I'm glad my kids can look at me and know I did all I could to minimize my chance I ever have to deal with this dreadful disease again. That's what my scars mean.
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Thanks so much Lilylady. I really appreciate the effort you went to.
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Outfield...as to the woman's comments...I totally understand your response to her comments. I would have felt the same, except that I know this woman. And she is the most genuine supportive sincere woman. One of those people who will do anything for you. She completely TRIED to understand where I was coming from, but just couldn't. She offered me her phone number, said call day or night. She was there for me and my best friend, any time, to support. She just couldn't relate. But I knew that about her before bc. She is the type of person who doesn't use her own pool because it might mess up her hair. But she told me that with a gentle laugh at herself. So, I listened to all that she said about it. I even went to the ps because she insisted that I really should before making any decisions.
As to your frustration with your daughter's interest in being pretty...
First, my own experience. My mother was a lesbian. She and her partner both had very strong feminist politics and I was raised with a lot of interaction with the gay community. I was aware of many various issues related to gender as well as sexuality. As a young girl, and then through my teens I completely identified and agreed with those politics. However, I also wore the tightest jeans, the poofiest velour shirts, had the Charlie's Angels' hair... Then, I dressed like Leslie from General Hospital...immaculately with plaid skirts and knee high boots. There was a period where I had to have Candies...(obscenely high heeled shoes). Then came the indian pattern wrap around skirts with leg warmers and hiking boots. I think this all was healthy experimentation with different identities. I think it is normal to try out all of that different stuff. After trying on all those different identities, I settled into me...who, until bc, thought not one whit about appearance.
Second, my daughter loved the princesses, too. She got over it. They really are boring after all. Now she wants to skateboard (as well as dance).
Finally, maybe your daughter means a whole lot more by "being pretty is important," than pretty. Maybe she is talking about her identity with the rest of the world and finding herself as a future woman. I think, that least in my own daughter's case, she is trying to bring her own self out and show it to the rest of the world in a way that is socially acceptable. I guess I mean that beauty is more than our bodies, but it does include our bodies. I think our kids need to know how to love their own bodies in all the different ways possible...including dressing them up... Maybe you could approach the pretty conversation with your daughter by talking about beauty, which includes the other important things, like taking care of guinea pigs as well as ourselves.
I am sorry to go on so about this...but your comments speak to me, as my own mother expressed the same frustrations with my desire to dress up....not knowing how she produced me. It was a challenge for her, too... I wish you all of the best with it...
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Crystal, I just saw your comment that you met a flat woman. I hope your get-together next week goes really well. It's kind of like a mini Flat Fest isn't it?! Yay!
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Asking for comments on Flat Fest - see the Facebook page.
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Yes, I will get together with the other flat woman next week and yes! It will be a mini flat fest, I will take a camera if she is not too shy. She is younger, looking into recon, and I just hope to support her in any way i can. I understand getting recon in your 30's or 40's...heck, I understand it for anyone willing to deal with the surgery. it just isn't for me.
LOL, too funny when I meet this woman and show up with a camera :-0 she may think i am a nut!
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I am just being a goofball. I go away to teach this week and so want to send myself off in style. I have been having fun with clothing artistically, so I am holding two balls of white embroidery thread in these photos.
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I have no idea how you generate that rapid fire sequence of pics, MT, but it sure is fun. I believe I catch a quick glimpse of those thread rolls as nips. :-) Hope you have created some wonderful clothing and enjoy teaching your class this week.
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Love the animated GIF, MT. Have a great time teaching!
A big howdy to all you other wonderful flat chested (uni or bilateral) women! I've been out of the loop and will continue to be for some time as I wrap up this house remodel project. I'm averaging 10 hours a day right now trying to attend to detail work, painting, and fixing the contractor's mistakes. He left me more headaches than I can count.
Hugs,
am
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OK - now I'm pissed. Apparently they are now creating a breast reconstruction awareness day on October 17, 2012. We need a flat awareness day!!!!
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LOL trust me not worth getting POed about.
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Well, if Oct. 17 is breast reconstruction awareness day, we should provide a balanced viewpoint to everyone..... Alexandria, who is sponsoring this awareness, and how do I find more information on it? I agree with mumito, not worth getting POed about, but certainly it deserves a thoughtful response.
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Actually, agree that I shouldn't be POd about it - but women should have non-recon choices too.
Here is the url:
www.bradayusa.org/
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The affiliate guide at http://www.bradayusa.org/ has some interesting information, considering that many of us here have been made to feel we're in the minority.
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Less than one-fifth of American women who undergo mastectomy currently choose to undergo breast reconstruction.
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Only about five percent of women choose to undergo breast reconstruction at the time of their mastectomy.
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That web site just feels like a commercial for plastic surgeons--profit driven. It left a yucky taste in my mouth.
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Me too. I got a notice on Facebook about this from another BC friend, which is why it set me off a little. Nasty taste indeed.
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Way toooooooooooooo pink! The statistics that River rat posted are the lowest I've seen. Maybe be they are so low because the website seems to be based in Canada.
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I looked at that recon site, and actually found it useful how it lists each recon option with exact info about what it entails, surgery time, recovery time etc., along with pics.
By the way, it seemed to me that many of the recons were not just recons but major augmentations (except for one gigantic pair that was reduced).
All I can really say is that after looking over that site, pics and info, I am even less inclined to consider recon, so if it was meant as a selling job, it failed.0 -
I just spoke to a freind in NY who told me a new law makes reconstruction completely free, meaning we do not pay anything out of pocket. (I paid 20% on everything I had done for the mastectomy). As a result, plastic surgeons are chomping at the bit, encouraging women to get immediate recon.
Interesting. For a few hours I felt envious, she is getting the microfat graft and wow, she made it all sound like a cake walk. her doctor said to her do you wish to be beautiful or ugly? (Sloan kettering). Wow.
Then I remembered my flatness is a choice. I did not want 12 hour surgeries, I did not want my stomach cut opened, I simply do not want to worry or have pain anymore.
I made the right choice for me. And I am learning to rock the flat look.
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I have not heard anything about a new law on reconstruction and you would think it would be all over the news. Has anyone else heard of this? Is it a national or NY thing?
In my case, while money is always a serious issue, it was not anywhere close to being one of the most important reasons that I chose not to recon. From the reasons I hear stated by others, while money is very important it doesn't seem to be the most frequently overriding consideration for them either, but that may just be my impression.
"Do you wish to be beautiful or ugly?" Really?? That could about make me want to climb up on my soapbox. Let's just say from my own perspective of my own body, of which I am likely to be a 1000 times more critical than I am of anyone else, when I look in the mirror, Sorry Dude, I don't even see my own flat self as ugly. How dare he!!!!! Somehow, for reasons I can't quite articulate, I wouldn't let this guy come anywhere near me nevermind lay a hand on me. He would not only disgust me, he would scare me.
Barbara
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