I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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Welcome happyraccoon.
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Welcome happyraccoon.
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Welcome happyraccoon.
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lol.
lol.
lol.
did you really post three times, or is my computer doing that??
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Flat Fest is canceled for the weekend? I assume so, I have not heard otherwise.
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Happy racoon - hello. I don't know what the gremlins are playing at with this thread but it made me laugh!
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I think so, MT, as I was supposed to share a ride with Alexandria, and I haven't heard from her. I think she posted a while back she might have a possible job in LA. Also, not much response for this w/e, so either we can make it small gathering when we reschedule (think she suggested Oct) or maybe more people will be available next time and we can still meet in Central Park. Either way is fine with me.
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i am 2.5 weeks out from my bmx. today (literally--in a trauma response way) i noticed they actually took my breasts off. i called a friend who took me to the pool for a soak and a little kick-gliding, with arms mostly at my sides. i could get my right arm up over my head for swordfish glides, but my left (where they took a few nodes) won't go up as high YET. was spinning mentally about how my dog ears won't tuck all the way into my swimsuit.
another friend said: find the tribe of flat chested women just like you. ask them what it feels like in 6 weeks, 6 months, a year.
the nice part is, i like my body better without breasts. i look better now. when i woke up from the anesthesia i instantly felt the canser was all GONE and my energy was back.
but i do need companions who carry breast free life to the fullest. if you have time, tell me a bit of your story as it goes today. and let me know if you want to skype? best----hr0 -
I also wish to share photos!!! I learn so much from seeing others. can we somehow start something private like this?
And yes MT, I have days where I celebrate this body of mine that got me out of a very bad place. My body stood up to Cancer and took what it needed to take to get to the other side. Which is pretty fierce and sexy.
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Nibbana, are you still on this thread? Looking at the numbers, it seems your healing is similar to mine. Like you, I never even wanted to try a prosthesis of any kind. Well, maybe for Halloween or something.
You see, I feel fake if I even put lipstick on. I've been a barefaced woman pretty much since my 20s.
But since my surgery (3ish weeks ago) I have been out in public 5 times. Each time I saw friends who were, frankly, just happy to see me standing up and walking around. A few acquaintances teared up a little and said things like, "I'm glad you're HERE." Meaning, I'm glad you didn't die. But they all said things about how great I look. As if I had lost weight. No one, not even strangers, gave me disparaging looks.
Part of it may be that I live on an island in the Puget Sound, where everyone is very casual in sweatshirts and jeans mostly. And we have a very small population here, so we NEVER see high heels or anything like that, except during tourist season. But another part is, I'm sure, that people really don't care about boobs on a 43 year old married woman. That's my karma.
Ask me about how it feels to look my husband in the eyes when my shirt is off; now THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. sigh. There's time for that kind of healing, too. Because I'm lucky to have time!
I know my sexiness is something I have to feel for myself. Certain things make me feel sexy: paddling faster. swimming harder. being outdoors. travel to distant places. As I gradually build back my range of motion and strength, I will get back to doing those things more and more.
Boobs? NEVER MADE ME FEEL SEXY. I'm only saying that here on this open thread because the media culture tries to sell us iconic hyperfeminized super boobed super thinned super slickdom. As if that's what it's like to be a woman! It's almost as if canser is grabbing more and more of us BECAUSE we are secretly hiding what our real shape, our true condition, our true life is. The more secrets, the more the media culture has its way.
I have a 9yr old daughter. Just on the verge of having breasts herself. Playing innocently on the precipice. I would really like to know how to help her stay in tune with her own feminity the way it naturally develops. Can I still do that as a woman who goes around flat? Perhaps, if she can see--on whatever level she wants to--that I am naturally feminine and nothing takes that away from me, and other womens' contrasting or complimentary choices can all be included in a collective sense of womanhood that we observe and appreciate personally and publically.
Rant over (for now)
Was there a question? Yes. What do you like most about being breast free and flat chested, etc.?
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For Crystal: I'm trying to get urls for my flat photos. It will take me a few days. But I would like to see them too!!
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I read MTs article on Role Reboot just now. It was pure medicine. What really got me was how simple the choice to go flat is from a medical standpoint. The fact that NONE of the medical professionals who worked with me EVER even listed or suggested it as an option is a tribute to how deeply entrenched the prosthetics/reconstruction industry is.
Sure, It's great that insurance companies will pay for this work. They should. A woman should have choices!!! But going flat is such an important option! Without it, as you say MT, how can we ever find each other in the flat clan?
It's very political to go around without these foobs on. It's saying: we are polluting our planet. It costs us our body parts.
Thank you for your writing and your work to bring us together.
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Hey there happyracon. You said you live on an island in Puget Sound? Vashon? Whitney? I'm in S King Co.
Well, like I said, I've walked around flat chested since the day I woke up from surgery. Sometimes I think, "Wow, I don't have any breasts, at all!" A couple of times I've reached to pull my bra strap up, nothing there! Everyone at worked didn't even flinch. I once got on the elevator and the CEO of my company was with me. I wonder if he thought, "Hmm, something's missing?"
I've been working out alot and I've build myself a nice chest. My arms and shoulders make a nice "frame". I don't look concave anymore.
I couldn't wear prothesis, it would feel just so, fake. I think I would look like a drag queen looking for his wig on Holloween. That's how it would feel to me.
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Friday Harbor. Kewl! So we could gather up a PNW flat tribe! or at least find it.
I too have faced my supervisor. Since one of my jobs is swim coach, i was actually at the pool, in my bathing suit. Flat as can be. He was very supportive. Accepting, willing to move on and look forward to more workouts and future swim seasons.
My other job might be trickier because I work with adolescents. A few may be freaked out unless they get used to it. But they would, I'm sure, if I'm a reliable adult. I once had to teach middle school from a wheelchair. Either that, or quit. My students were very accommodating! I learned how to peel rubber on the linoleum real quick. Toward the end of the semester, they lined up to watch me pull a wheelie. Totally fun.
It depends on how we project ourselves, don't you think? What do you most enjoy about your new life? And, what's tamoxifen like?0 -
Also Nibbana, congratulations on the workouts! You inspire me to keep trying. Wait a minute...would foobs hide my belly?
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I'm sure foobs could hide your belly if you put them down there!
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Happyracoon, Oh, I had a lot of belly to get rid of! I didn't like the no breasts, accentuated belly thing one bit. So I worked and worked and I'm looking nice and trim now. Took a lot of work though.
I take life one day at a time now. Got through the major post cancer blues. Tamoxifen is pretty obnoxious, the hot flashes are starting. Got to stick it out though.
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LOL HE HE HE HA HA HO HO wu huuu!
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LOL HE HE HE HA HA HO HO wu huuu!
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From First Hours 0 -
Racoon, I am almost exactly a year out. Initially I had assumed I would do immediate recon start at surgery (that was how the whole deal was presented more or less and being in crisis mode, I didn't really ponder it too much). Then my surgeon decided that with it being ILC, the need for rads and the seriousness of the whole sitch, he really wanted me to cool my heels for two years before starting recon. It was a blessing in disguise.
Purely physically, I still have some discomfort, as in occasional twinges and tightness. It REALLY helped getting myself to a lymphedema PT very soon after surgery. I worked with her all through treatment, and I did have some LE swelling for a while, but we managed to resolve it. Apart from actual LE issues, the massage helps your well-being generally, especially the tightness and discomfort across the chest.
I do wear foobs, really small ones, the fiber ones, and I wear them in a homemade cami, since wearing a bra is out of the question for me (irritates the lymph flow). If I lived elsewhere, I think I would go flat pretty often, but cancer is still such a taboo here that it would most likely freak people. Greeks can also be oddly child-like with things like that. Already I get constant questions about my LE sleeve. I don't really mind, but it does get a bit annoying sometimes, and I don't really want to have to explain the BMX 5 times a day as well.
Like you, I actually like how I look without boobs. Besides, my boobs always freakin hurt, so it is a relief to be rid of them.
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Happyracoon - your energy is brilliant!
Momine - agree totally on the hurting boobs thing. Mine were agony for 10 days of every menstrual cycle. And during pregnancy the pain would have me wailing like a banshee.
On the issue of kids and flatness - I have a 5 year old boy. He was breastfed and then I was diagnosed so he has never known me with a bust. I used to fret about it - would worry that my cuddles were bony and lumpy instead of the soft bosomy cuddles I got from all the women in my family when I was a child. But it doesn't matter. He really doesn't care. I think the example you are setting your daughter of body confidence is exemplary. To see a confident strong healthy woman who is happy in her skin is the best gift you can give as an example to a young girl I think.
On general wellbeing - I have good and bad days - most of that triggered by the medication I have to take and the stinking wretched menopause. I miss my oestrogen far more than my breasts. Physically my right scar has vanished totally (albeit surrounded by a brown patch of radiation burn). I have mild truncal LE under my right arm. My left scar is badly hypertrophic and very painful. I am quite content being bra and breast free. I am still working through what I like to wear and what suits me though. I spoke to a plastic surgeon years ago about reconstruction and I have tried out various permutations of foobs but I have now arrived at this stage and I feel like I have finally landed in a place where I am happy. I do want to have the hypertrophic scar dealt with - either revised or covered with a tattoo because it is an ugly uncomfortable thing.
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Oh happyraccon,
When I was 2-3 weeks, I couldn't wait to get into physical therapy. Besides getting my arms to move again, the sensations across my chest were nearly making me postal. My therapist calmed me down with the massage, even when she was half killing me, leaning on my pectoralis minor. =P
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happyraccoon, I'm six years post BMX. I've gone from initially wearing silicone foobs everytime I went out, to switching to foam but going flat sometimes, to microbead but going flat most of the time, to finally this year finding some silicone foobs that aren't so uncomfortable so I could wear them everyday if I wanted to, but I don't. I have some occassional chest tightness and wearing the forms against my skin seems to act as a massage and takes the tightness away so about once every week or two I wear the forms for two or three hours, more like a treatment than a fashion choice. I do have the forms so if I needed them for an outfit I'd be all set but so far I haven't needed them.
I find I've become entirely comfortable with going flat. When I help out with one of my grandkids' classes I wear a vest, or a jacket or a scarf and the kids don't notice. In fact my grandkids don't notice even when I'm hugging them. It's just become normal for them.
I've been very hesitant with posting pictures online but if there was a private site I think I'd be ok with that.
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Hey!!! What a nice present to open in the morning, first thing!! Messages for ME??!! Big smiles, ladies
Nibbana, I am SO GLAD to hear that you feel good now, after all your hard work. Trim? Really??? Oh, I hope so! You give me hope!! I'll be thinking of you in my pilates class when I start foaming at the mouth and blushing bright red. Blushing. Not flushing. Not flashing. Not blashing. Ok, well, maybe all of those...if it's pilates. I have been to a pt on the mainland (takes 4-5 hours of travel) once. She coached me on specific stuff about LE. Said I was doing great with my stretches and on that day it looked like I had almost 100% ROM back. Yesterday in the pool? NOT!! Only my right arm falls in line over my head. The left is stubbornly painful. But I'll start with my regular pt again next week. And hopefully a bit of accupuncture. Can we do accupuncture if we only had 3 nodes removed? Have you heard of that?
Momine, I'm sorry to hear about your LE troubles because of radiation. And surgery?? Just not fair. You are so brave!! And it sounds like you are in Greece? How cool is THAT!! Well, probably a bit warm, actually. But I'd love to hear more about it. Do you have to get lots of checkups and can you in Greece? Ignorant here. I'd love to hear more about how people respond to you. My junior year abroad was in France, and I remember that women were definitley on pedestals there and if I kept climbing off mine, men were fascinated but in a kind of disrespectful bordering on dangerous way. And the women just pretended I wasn't there. Good for you for being culturally sensitive and and connected. Thank you for mentioning the good/bad day thing. When I'm having a bad spell, I think I'm doing something wrong. Helps to keep perspective. The pain you have survived!!! You gals are TOUGH
Greenfrog! What does hypertrophic mean? It sounds gnarly. What kind of tatoo are you pondering? Some of those are EXTRAORDINARILY BEAUTIFUL. But you Brits say LOVELY, right? What do you think of this: our ER+ tumors...did we have beyond normal hormone mixtures to begin with? Like, the whole breast pain thing prior to cancer....me too. And how many others? Is this somehow a telltale sign that cancer might be in the cards? Seems a hard thing to survey across a broad population because it's so individual and so curvy during any woman's cycles. Add pregnancy and things like being in love to that and it goes way beyond science, right? I'm so glad to hear you were able to breastfeed your son!! Thank Goodness for that!! My hugs hurts still. My breast bone is sore, for no reason at all. Nice to know they don't feel bony after a while.
Hi River Rat! You're right!! Vests, jackets, scarves. Those are all my favorite work looks anyway. And nobody can tell under those kinds of things. Pictures online? I know. Should I be disclosing real stuff here, for the world to see? And after a bit, I think YES. Because I hate how this epidemic hides from public view. Pink parades are not enough for me. I tried to be discreet at first and I was very unhappy like that. I felt too cramped, too pained, too islolated. When I stand up and come out just exactly as I am, I feel free and whole. Like who I really am is really ok. That said, I might be panicking any minute and deleting posts and pictures in a fit. That would be ok, too. I think. Oh how fragile identity is. Whatever you decide is fine. We could just message photos to each other, right? Or not. (My two cents.)
I don't know where you guys are from. Except for Nibbana.
For now, I'm adding a couple more pictures. You just beg me to stop if you can't take it anymore
Thanks for being here
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I saw a triple negative on this thread somewhere. Wow!! They're kind of rare, aren't they? Blessings on you, Triple Neg!! Hugs and smiles and waves
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Racoon, you are funny! Yeah, we live in Greece, been here 15 years. We started out in the US (dh was born in Greece, raised in da Bronx).
Most Greeks thought we were slightly insane to stay here when I got sick instead of going to the States. However, my onc is US trained and certified. My surgeon is UK trained and certified. Both docs have long experience, and the treatment at this point is fairly standard and can be checked by anyone on the interwebz. So I have no regrets, and I am happy I was at home, with my dogs and my stuff while I was going through chemo and all the other amusements.
The public health system here is in a bit of a shambles, thanks to the crisis. However, the private system is really perfectly fine and compares quite well to mid-level facilities in the US, even if the style may be different. So I do all my check-ups and testing here.
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I am so glad this list is growing and gathering flatties up!
I would like to know more about the sensation of wearing foobs and how it 'helps' you. There is a word or phrase for this but it escapes me. Some of you have talked about how wearing breast forms gives you a response of some sort. I think about this often.
I don't wear forms so I can't relate to 'feedback' related to wearing a form. I can say that I sometimes feel overstimulated by clothing touching my scars (my surgery was June 21, 2011), what this translates to is, feeling a burning sensation, feeling tight, restricted, sensitive. When this happens I strip bare.
I love my new form. I feel like Me more than I ever have in my life. I like how it feels to be flat, not wear a bra.
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Regarding SHARING PHOTOS, PM me if you want to be in the initial test group for a site where we can add our own, and/or view photos of "other flat chested women." It's my objective to make it as private as possible/practical. Or PM me if you have questions about it. It's not quite ready to roll out but with a little shove, I think I can make it happen...
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Regarding SHARING PHOTOS, PM me if you want to be in the initial test group for a site where we can add our own, and/or view photos of "other flat chested women." It's my objective to make it as private as possible/practical. Or PM me if you have questions about it. It's not quite ready to roll out but with a little shove, I think I can make it happen...
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