I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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Happeeeee . . . just thought I'd throw this out there - - it's too soon for you now. . . . but consider massage to decrease/eliminate scar tissue. . . I had a mess in the middle, that 3/4" or so between my scars, dead center in the chest, where there was a lot of bumps, swelling, and scar tissue . . . also - at the end of each scar under my arm pits . . scar tissue I understand gets tougher and harder, may cause discomfort and pain . . . I have had two massages thus far, have the third scheduled - the masseuse is deeply massaging those areas and has decreased the hard tissue almost totally. . . it's the best money I've ever spent (my insurance does NOT pay for scar tissue/adhesion massage) . . . . just a thought.
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My new favorite song!
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Fern I love the song as well have added it to my faves.Thanks.
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Starak,
I love this sentence: 'you are finding the strength and confidence to go in a direction you feel is right for you and to start filtering out what you know is not.'
Isn't that just the way of it.
I have been getting great feedback on the Role/Reboot article. It will be republished in a small online magazine, which is great. If you guys know of other magazines I might ask to republish, I would gladly contact them. And as ever, please 'like' and 'share' the article so that others might read it too.
http://www.rolereboot.org/life/details/2012-08-i-chose-to-live-as-a-flat-chested-woman-after-breast
A few women in my swim group are half flat, one asked if I could have the teacher forward the link to the article, but I think my teacher has 'sided' with the women who have reconstructed (as if we are on different sides of the fence!), she won't forward it! So tomorrow I will get the email addresses of the women who are interested and share the article with those who want to read it.
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Wow, MT. That is a little disturbing, that the teacher won't forward the link. Hmmm.
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That's really sad that someone feels we have to take sides.
There are so many things that people want or do that I don't in any way understand. My partner and I say from time to time, "Well, we don't have to be exactly alike" and it's so true. If it doesn't hurt somebody else, why the sides?
Which makes me wonder if in some way some they do see it as a threat.
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Ok, I submitted a reply and don't have a clue where it went. I'm trying again.
After I received by diagnosis my GYN called. During the conversation I asked for his opinion and he suggested bilateral mastectomy. What was interesting is I had always said to myself and my husband that if I had cancer in one breast, I would want both removed but hearing that from my doctor was a jolt. I did a lot of research on breast cancer, treatments and reconstructions or not having reconstruction and shared it with my wonderful husband. When he got to the material on reconstruction he commented that if he were in my shoes he would not go through the extra surgery and don't do it for him. It was what I wanted to hear. I saw my surgeon and he recommended a lumpectomy with sentinel node biopsy since the tumor was very small and was caught early. I was willing to go that route because it was so small but after my one and only visit to my oncologist I changed my mind. I found her contrite and dismissive when she only explained three possible side effects for aromasin. That conversation gave me an ephiphany. If I remove the breast with cancer and the one without, I took a radiation oncologist, an oncology practice and a pharmaceutical company off my payroll. People thought I was taking a drastic measure but I didn't want to be burned and risk possible side effects from drugs. I wanted to move on with my life. My surgeon was very understanding when I changed my mind. I was lucky in the fact that the tumor was taken during the biopsy and the cancer had not gone to the nodes. Plus, I remained true to myself which was the most important thing. I know I made the right decision to live flat. When I went back to work no one had noticed. When talking with me, they thought I had taken a vacation since they hadn't seen me for a couple of weeks. I don't feel self conscious when I go out in public. I wear button down shirts, sometimes with a good fitting sports bra if the fabric is light as my scars are still noticeable. I even wear my knits that cling. I have only caught two people staring at me. And quite frankly, I don't care if anyone notices. I am like the rest of you. Looking for others like me and haven't seen anyone. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one out there. I was beginning to think I was. So glad I found you strong ladies. To paraphrase Dr. Spoke's line - May we live long and prosper! We need to teach other women that living flat is a very viable option to the type of surgery we had. Hope I get to run into some of you.
On a side rant, I hate the term cancer survivor, always have, and refuse to use it. When it comes up in conversation, which is rare, I say I had cancer. I am also against the pink ribbon. We must find a preventive vaccine for cancer. Not a cure for after it was been diagnosed. I fear this will never happen as there is too much money to be made cleaning up the aftermath of a cancer diagnosis. I had commented to my surgeon on the day of surgery how cancer feels like such a money making business. He said he only knew of one single doctor practice in our area and that doctor moved away.
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MT1 - The link does not seem to be working??
Barbara
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See if this works:
http://www.rolereboot.org/life/details/2012-08-i-chose-to-live-as-a-flat-chested-woman-after-breast
Barbara
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kathindc: Thanks for sharing. We truly must be own health advocates! I thought you would like an article by Barbara Ehrenreich. Google "Barbara Ehrenreich Cancerland"0
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Good to hear from you Kathindc....I am sure most things in medicine are about money making, and you may be right that doctors have us turn away from a double mastectomy in order to keep filling the pockets down the line. An interesting take for sure.
I am glad you are feeling ok being "breastfree" (and be sure to look at the website breastfree.org) ... like you, I don't even know if people notice, I don't make eye contact, and if I do talk to someone, is is not about my body.
My own personal irony though is now I am not so ultra sensitive (physically speaking) and I can tolerate forms...and now I really don't care to wear them!
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Purl51, Thanks for the link. Loved the article. She said what I've been feeling for a long time. Had this same kind of discussion last year with a friend I worked with after reading a article in The Washington Post that dealt with some of the same issues. One of my concerns is what happens to women who have no or limited health insurance. I was curious and added up what my insurance company was billed from screening mammogram to surgery and was stunned at the cost. I can only imagine what it is for those who go through radiation, hormone therapy and chemo or any combination of those. The powers to be need to focus on prevention so that not one more women has to walk in our shoes.
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Some random thoughts.
What a good read the Ehrenreich piece. All stuff I've thought about.
Personally, I doubt the recommendations against BMX are about money-making. My bet would be on pervasive and often internalized misogyny. There's a lot of this country that still in their hearts sees women as accessories for men, and what accessory would be complete without those special accessory-accessories. A lot of times the advice is coming from someone with no stake in it. A colleague's oncologist (she was to get the same treatment regardless of bilateral vs. unilateral) said to her, "Why would you want to mutilate yourself like that?" Her care with him would have been exactly the same no matter which she chose (except that she fired him first). Oncologists make no money from mammograms, unless they belong to a large center with its own radiology, in which case they don't make money directly but maybe buy a teeny, tiny drop of job security. Breast surgeons and plastic surgeons don't either. Again, unless it's all one tidy center, the medical oncologist and surgeons make no money from the radiation treatments. Whether a person is recommended chemo isn't going to depend on the surgery chosen, but on the tumor. I'm not that cynical about docs. Administrators, sure. Docs, not really.
Back to that misogyny thing, in all the reconstruction push I never see ANYTHING about losing nipple sensation. I've never seen a word or heard a peep about that except here on these boards. Nipple sparing doesn't mean the thing is likely to work. Breasts are reduced to what they look like to someone else, not what they feel like on your body.
I think that's why I have such different feelings about foobs and reconstruction. Foobs, well, I don't wear them, but it's not 100% out of the question. I have thought more than a little bit about not wanting to look so odd that strangers notice my amputations. Probably very similar to wearing a matching shoe on a prosthetic foot. There's a big difference to me between wanting to generally pass as not freakish-looking in public and trying to create a deception closer to home. All that surgery for something that you can't even feel. The female sexual experience gets so lost in this, unless of course you count being more comfortable because your partner won't be distracted by the absence of parts.
Still, reconstruction is obviously so important for some women. I spend some time worrying that if I'm part of a group that is too vocal about flat being a decent choice, insurance would find some way to weasel out of paying for reconstructions. I wouldn't want that.
On another cheery note, I saw a great lymphedema therapist yesterday. One of the things she said, in the midst of my refresher how to do manual lymphatic drainage, was that she doesn't like the pink stuff. She said she's worked with people with a lot of medical problems, and breast cancer didn't seem any worse than a lot of other things. Spinal cord injuries, MS. Melanoma. I don't think there are spinal cord injury awareness cosmetics, although at this point people could probably take more action to prevent a spinal cord injury than breast cancer. But as someone diagnosed with an explosively growing stage III cancer, I also don't want to see "focus on prevention" anyway. I am selfish, and prevention is simply too late for me.
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I am having a prophylactic bi-lateral mastectomy with no reconstruction on Sept. 18, 2012 - Three years of repeated biopsies and lumpectomies and each time more LCIS being found, I have finally found the courage to have this surgery. I am grateful to find such amazing women here who have opted for no recon. It is a powerful statement, and not one made easily. I will be joining the ranks of flat-chested women this month and will wear my flatness with pride.
Skipper
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Outfield, I hear you, all good points and eloquently made. I do wear foobs, small and light ones, exactly because I prefer to avoid excessive attention. I think if I lived elsewhere, I would probably go flat more often than not. To my eye, the flat look is perfectly nice.
I especially hear you on how sexuality is left out of the whole treatment process. It is downright funny at times.
Cancer truly sucks, naturally, but I have thoughts similar to those of your LE therapist. One of our aunts has severe bipolar illness and has been on debilitating meds for 40 years. The way she soldiers on and tries to keep her illness controlled is genuinely brave and impressive. Me showing up for my chemo? Not quite in the same league.
Skipper, good thoughts for a smooth surgery and recovery. I am guessing that you get to keep your lymph nodes, correct?
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Hi all, Haven't been on line much. I had hand surgery last Wednesday and am just now getting back to typing a little bit.
It's now September 1. The only responses I have for attending Flat Fest and for a tee shirt are as follows:
MT1 - definite attending - small tee
Tina 337 - definite attending - small tee
me - definite attending - large tee (like 'em baggy)
Dawn - maybe attending
I'm ordering Tees on Monday so they'll be here in time. PLease PM me or Post if you think you'll attend or if you want a tee. After Monday, you'll have to order your own.
If there's this few of us, I may suggest that we just consider a lunch instead of starting out at Strawberry Fields, perhaps on a different date. My schedule is getting a little cramped, but I'm trying to keep September 22 open for Flat Fest - and rescheduling might be preferable for me if there's only three or four of us. Also, if people are not coming because of the date, please let me know that as well.
I'm also posting this on request on Facebook.
thanks.
Sandy
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I'm also flat!! Glad I'm not alone. I'm not even 40 yet but oh well.
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Sandy, I will be with you in spirit, unfortunately not able to make the trip this time. Are we going to do a "Flat Stanley" thing for those of us not able to make the trip? I don't really want to post a photo of myself online quite yet, but would consider sending one to the group - or maybe there is a secure place we could post pics and share - maybe do a little modeling of clothes that we feel comfortable in, physically and emotionally. I think there is another thread here that some women have actually posted photos of wardrobes, but these boards are viewable by the public.
Skipper12, welcome! You will get a lot of support, a little militant attitude, and generally good fun here! (I am a product of the 60s-70s, and we just can't help ourselves from getting up on soapboxes periodically, but at the same time, we can laugh at ourselves when we become just a bit ridiculous!)
Outfield, so very well put!
Had to have biopsy of new hard lump (small) in ALND side yesterday, and noticed how hunched up I was walking today. Wearing soft t-shirt, going flat, don't like looking old and frail. Back to good posture, stretches, myofascial release across these darned incisions, and going to walk proud and tall (OK, so not so tall at a whole 5 ft 0 in, but hey, I always felt much taller than I actually am)! BS was pleased with her work (it does look pretty good) but not about the continued neuropathic pain - she is sending me back to PT when I am eligible in Nov, but I hope that I can do self-care and not need it by then. Am tired of appointments!
Hope you all have a great holiday weekend!0 -
I will take responcibility of Flat Family. If anyone wants to send a flat pictoral picture of yourself so that we can take a 'group photo' during Flat Fest, please PM me.
Sandy, I can also meet up on the 29th, if that works better for you. These are the two dates I can do in September.
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Melle - I'm trying to get a head count right now - so I can plan. My schedule's a bit up in the air, and I won't know for a few weeks. It's complicated. There's a job possibility and a possibility of a trip to LA. I've been trying to keep September 22 open, and will plan around Flat Fest, but if there's only 3- 4 of us - it might be better to have alternative dates, maybe in October.
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Sandy.
OK, whatever works best.
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I wish I could make it but it is not possible. I will be with you in spirit.
Barbara
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Hi, all. I cannot come either. I am not all that far away (2.5 hours), but this is the most hectic time of year for me and I just can't get away. I hope you all have a great time!
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Flat chested on one side for a year now. Truly feels better than the other side. Being 54, they were not perky like they used to be anyway...Oh well...patterns shirts and t shirts do the trick for me. just wear a t shirt over my bathing suit when I swim. Actually was at the beach a couple of weeks ago and was playing in the canal in an "old lady raft flotilla" with me and my one boob proudly leading the parade...great fun and who cares who sees you? Its such a small price to pay for your life....
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I will go along with whatever is best for all.
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I am heading on a beach vacation in a month, and I struggle with being flat. Now at home, I am flat almost every day, I would say 90% of the time, so I don't know why I am so hesitant to leave my silicons home?
I don't know if I feel unsure about meeting up with old friends and not having them, but then I also stress about lugging them with me. I am flying and I barely make my weight limit in luggage without these breasts.
Sigh.
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Crystalphm: Ironic my work is aviation related and I avoid airplanes at all cost. Still....
Now, if it were me, I would already be making adjustments as I have to plan and make room for what I am likely to buy. Still, if you want to take them, I would be tempted to just wear them. As they are pure silicone, I doubt the TSA would question them at all. If you were to take the microbeads or any kind of weighted foam, I might consider throwing them into your carry-on to go thru security and then put them back on after.
I have heard several times of women leaving them in the bra and hanging the bra from a door handle to avoid taking the storage boxes which is what I would do if dealing with limited space/weight.
Whatever you decide, whether to take them or not, remember this is not life stuff and at the end of the day is a decision that is no more critical than which shoes to take. DO remember to have fun.
Barbara
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I started out by wearing smaller forms. They were not comfortable enough (still had to wear a bra of course) so started just going without. I was a bit self conscious at first but got used to it very quickly. I love being bra free now.
For swimming, I went and bought the mast bathing suit and wore it once. Now I wear swim shorts with a sports halter top. The most awkward part is how it clings when leaving the water, so I just pull it out as I am getting out. I am sure some people notice but I don't care.
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Hi All,
Last night as I was watching Project Runway, the thought hit me that perhaps it might make for an interesting episode if they were to design for the Flat & Fabulous. Each real Flat & Fabulous "model" as the client could ask the designer for what they wanted. How about that for an October event?
Whether because I am now a bit further out in time, or because I have NEVER been one to run with the crowd, or both, I don't know, but while I still avoid too in your face, I am less and less inclined to hide the flat. What does that mean? I don't wear a tshirt with "SURVIVOR" or similiar in 4" letters, but I do power walk with a solid white fitted cami or tank which hides nothing - uh literally. So though I would NEVER NEVER NEVER want to be on TV, if I were to ask, I think I would be ready for a design that actually celebrated the flat with no attempt to camouflage, and yet was beautiful, feminine (not girly), structured and perhaps architectural. LOL - Almost starting to sound like the wicked witch outfit from Disney's Sleeping Beauty. Oh Dear.....
Barbara
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Starak, I LOVE the idea!!!! I think MT would be a super-good choice to work with them, BTW!!!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V96r2046qjE