I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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Oh, people have already said these but I second or third them. Yes, no numb lumps! If I could have sensate nipples again, I'd consider more surgery. But that's magical thinking. And my cancer too wasn't caught on routine mammos - was stage III at diagnosis despite a normal (even looking at it in retrospect, knowing where the cancer had to have been already) 8 mammo 8 months prior.
Also, many of the reconstruction options use muscle from other parts of the body. As an athlete, I didn't want to compromise the functional integrity some other body part to do something purely cosmetic.
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Oh, people have already said these but I second or third them. Yes, no numb lumps! If I could have sensate nipples again, I'd consider more surgery. But that's magical thinking. And my cancer too wasn't caught on routine mammos - was stage III at diagnosis despite a normal (even looking at it in retrospect, knowing where the cancer had to have been already) 8 mammo 8 months prior.
Also, many of the reconstruction options use muscle from other parts of the body. As an athlete, I didn't want to compromise the functional integrity some other body part to do something purely cosmetic.
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Oh, people have already said these but I second or third them. Yes, no numb lumps! If I could have sensate nipples again, I'd consider more surgery. But that's magical thinking. And my cancer too wasn't caught on routine mammos - was stage III at diagnosis despite a normal (even looking at it in retrospect, knowing where the cancer had to have been already) 8 mammo 8 months prior.
Also, many of the reconstruction options use muscle from other parts of the body. As an athlete, I didn't want to compromise the functional integrity some other body part to do something purely cosmetic.
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Gremlins! This thread is possessed.
I SWEAR I did not push that submit button seven times. But my computer did jam up a while after I pressed it once. Moderators?
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I wanted to get back to being active as quickly as possible.and wanted to be able to do push ups without worrying about the implant shifting when pec flexes...
I only had option of implants and didn't like the idea of a foreign object behind my pec muscle.
I was afraid of the possibility of an infection. I wound up getting a nasty one 7weeks out without recon, so I might have compromised implants anyway.
I knew I might be numb, which turned out to be true, and I didn't want a numb lump. I much prefer the numbness to be close to my pec muscle.
I didn't want the feeling of coolness of an implant that had no breast fat to cushion it.
I didn't want to have to go in for more surgery every 8-10 years to replace the implant.
When I got the bill for the consult with the plastic surgeon (that ended up being paid by the insurance company) I was a little miffed because it was really expensive $600 and while I didn't pay out of pocket, we all end up paying more down the road with higher premiums etc... My sister had free consult for implants (she has no Breast cancer).
I think that is it!!
Steph
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I just love the comments ! I wish I had seen this YEARS ago back in 2007 after my first mastectomy! What funny wonderful comments. I refuse to wear prosthetics. They hurt against the thin tight skin on the scar. They are hot. The bra dams up the lymph fluid in my left arm. It makes me so uncomfortable I get a case of OCD - "get these things off of me." So For years now I do without. I have gotten used to the stares and people unable to find a comfortable place for their eyes. I wish my tummy wasn't so round, clothes fit better with boobs, but no way I would do reconstruction.
I was upset that the surgeons left a tail of flesh under my right arm and a twin camel hump of flesh in the middle of my chest. I wondered if this was to remind me of what used to be there. I HATE that lump and would love to have it taken off- so Tshirts would lay flat etc. But insurance will pay 25K or more to create fake mounds and nothing for the cosmetic removal of extra little fleshy mounds. Even if it would cost nearly nothing. Go figure. Now that I am stage 4, I hate to spend the money. Have any of you out there done tatoos? How painful was that? Did it make you feel better? This is such a funny thread. wonderful to read the comments. Thanks for sharing.
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Rosevalley,
Care for complications of mastectomy for breast cancer is legally mandated by something called I think the WHCRA, circa the mid-1990's. I had a non-reconstructive surgery after my mastectomy because I had developed a huge restrictive cord in my armpit. It was a very simple surgery - I think of it as very similar to a vasectomy - and I'm sure didn't cost my insurance much. Nevertheless, I had to remind them of their legal obligation before they would pay for it.
There are some restrictions. It might have to be within a certain time frame after the mastectomy - that I cannot remember. But the wording of the act itself is very vague, and in most insurance policies there is a vague paraphraasing.
I am no legal or insurance expert, but it may be worth looking into.
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As it regards removing dog ears, camel humps or as I called mine The Mutants, they were covered under WHCRA as "reconstruction." WHCRA covers "all stages of reconstruction" - it was just that I only wanted one stage. I learned to play the language game and call it "reconstruction" which is how it was submitted by the PS and approved under the insurance even though all I had done was the removal of the center dog ear cones growing out of my chest. Perhaps something that needs to be addressed in interviews is the reluctance or even flat refusal of many PS to clean up our chests without full on reconstruction. There is a condescending attitude of some that it is beneath their artistic talent to leave us with a smooth flat chest. In my more paranoid moments I almost think there are some that want to punish those that step out of the norm. Please notice I said "some" and by no means all. I found an excellent PS that was willing to help me even though I could see him trying to hide the laughter at the term "The Mutants."
I don't quite know how to feel about this link I found. It is the chest of a man who had BC with BMX. His center dog ears are wayyyyyy smaller and not nearly so close together than mine were but the overall scars as to angle, straight line and low on chest, look remarkably like mine before The Mutants removal. FWIW I am fiercely independent, self reliant, not afraid to do "guy" stuff and yet 100% all girl. Just that my scars on a man makes me think of the discussions we have had on gender.
http://symptoms-of-cancer.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/male-breast-cancer-300x266.jpg
Barbara
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As it regards removing dog ears, camel humps or as I called mine The Mutants, they were covered under WHCRA as "reconstruction." WHCRA covers "all stages of reconstruction" - it was just that I only wanted one stage. I learned to play the language game and call it "reconstruction" which is how it was submitted by the PS and approved under the insurance even though all I had done was the removal of the center dog ear cones growing out of my chest. Perhaps something that needs to be addressed in interviews is the reluctance or even flat refusal of many PS to clean up our chests without full on reconstruction. There is a condescending attitude of some that it is beneath their artistic talent to leave us with a smooth flat chest. In my more paranoid moments I almost think there are some that want to punish those that step out of the norm. Please notice I said "some" and by no means all. I found an excellent PS that was willing to help me even though I could see him trying to hide the laughter at the term "The Mutants."
I don't quite know how to feel about this link I found. It is the chest of a man who had BC with BMX. His center dog ears are wayyyyyy smaller and not nearly so close together than mine were but the overall scars as to angle, straight line and low on chest, look remarkably like mine before The Mutants removal. FWIW I am fiercely independent, self reliant, not afraid to do "guy" stuff and yet 100% all girl. Just that my scars on a man makes me think of the discussions we have had on gender.
http://symptoms-of-cancer.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/male-breast-cancer-300x266.jpg
Barbara
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As it regards removing dog ears, camel humps or as I called mine The Mutants, they were covered under WHCRA as "reconstruction." WHCRA covers "all stages of reconstruction" - it was just that I only wanted one stage. I learned to play the language game and call it "reconstruction" which is how it was submitted by the PS and approved under the insurance even though all I had done was the removal of the center dog ear cones growing out of my chest. Perhaps something that needs to be addressed in interviews is the reluctance or even flat refusal of many PS to clean up our chests without full on reconstruction. There is a condescending attitude of some that it is beneath their artistic talent to leave us with a smooth flat chest. In my more paranoid moments I almost think there are some that want to punish those that step out of the norm. Please notice I said "some" and by no means all. I found an excellent PS that was willing to help me even though I could see him trying to hide the laughter at the term "The Mutants."
I don't quite know how to feel about this link I found. It is the chest of a man who had BC with BMX. His center dog ears are wayyyyyy smaller and not nearly so close together than mine were but the overall scars as to angle, straight line and low on chest, look remarkably like mine before The Mutants removal. FWIW I am fiercely independent, self reliant, not afraid to do "guy" stuff and yet 100% all girl. Just that my scars on a man makes me think of the discussions we have had on gender.
http://symptoms-of-cancer.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/male-breast-cancer-300x266.jpg
Barbara
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Sorry the multiple post gremlins hit me too.
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I chose to get off the reconstruction wagon and go flat for all of the reasons above. My implant recon resulted in chronic pain and muscle damage.
MT, could you mention that breast reconstruction can result in lymphedema, please? Certain forms of autologous tissue transfer surgeries (DIEP, especially) can cause truncal LE because the long scar across the abdomen blocks the path of lymph fluid. Also, my surgeons said the multiple surgeries for implant recon were responsible for my truncal LE. I will never know for sure what caused it, but the LE became much easier to manage once the implants were removed.
Lymphedema is a chronic condition that must be managed for the rest of one's life. There is no cure. I think this info would provide some balance to the National Breast Reconstruction Awareness Day. Breast reconstruction definitely can have negative consequences to one's health.
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Egad, now I sound like I'm against all forms of reconstruction when that wasn't my intent! I just think people should be informed when choosing to reconstruct, and lymphedema is rarely discussed as a possible side effect.
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Tina, thanks for making the connection between reconstruction and lymphedema, which I think is really important. While a person can develop lymphedema from a mastectomy alone, it makes sense that the more surgery one has (and the more scar tissue that forms), the higher the risk. I hadn't heard that about the long abdominal scar from DIEP, but it makes sense.
Another perspective I wanted to add is that when I was facing BMX, I thought about my own perfectionist nature and felt that I would be very upset if reconstruction resulted in bad asymmetry or breast mounds that were too large, too small, too low or too high on my chest. I actually felt I would have more control over my body if I had a flat chest (and I asked my surgeon to do her best to make it flat with symmetrical incisions). The good thing about breast forms is that I can get a perfectly matched set in whatever size I want, or I can go totally flat.
MT1, as you know from watching the HuffPost video, I shared the reservations about recon that you mentioned. I also felt that if I had reconstruction and were unhappy with it or if I were in pain or developed lymphedema afterward, I'd be really depressed as I would have electively chosen it.
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Barbara, your comment about gender discussions reminds me of one of the stranger experiences I had post bmx: discussing scars and the way they felt with someone who was transgender (female to male).
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Tina...I think we all have had those "egad" moments...but, really, your post didn't seem judgemental in the least. One of the things that must be considered in the decision to have recon is the risks. That's all your post seemed to say, to me, anyway...:)
It always worries me that something I might say will make someone feel that I am judging them. Scary. Because the last thing on earth I want to do is second guess anyone else's priorities and choices. Mine are difficult enough to handle!
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Tina...I think we all have had those "egad" moments...but, really, your post didn't seem judgemental in the least. One of the things that must be considered in the decision to have recon is the risks. That's all your post seemed to say, to me, anyway...:)
It always worries me that something I might say will make someone feel that I am judging them. Scary. Because the last thing on earth I want to do is second guess anyone else's priorities and choices. Mine are difficult enough to handle!
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Tina, having already had a bout with LE and being unable to wear bra bands because of LE issues, this is definitely an added reason for me to avoid recon.
Erica, your post made me chuckle, because I have exactly the same perfectionist issues. It would really mess very seriously with my head to have recon boobs that I didn't like the look of. Having looked at a lot of pics, I also realized that given my treatment etc, my chances of ending up with a less than stellar job would be really high. The other thing is that my original bust was small, and I like small. As far as I can tell, if the recon involves implants, it is hard to go as small I would like.
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What are dog ears in the centre of the chest. I am totally flat. More indents than anything.
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Pip...I once asked that question and I was directed to this thread...
http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/82/topic/695424?page=1
One woman posted a pic of her surgery scars with dog ears.
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Thanks CLC. I didn't realize that so much tissue would be left behind. I assume it is done in case the woman wants to have implants put in later?? I made it very clear that I would not be changing my mind.
I have also read were some surgeons insist that the patient see a psychologist before making the desicion to forgo recon. That is just ridiculous, in my opinion!
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I did the bend over test when I did have breasts. Certain tops I had that had even the slightest dip in the neckline showed more than I wanted if I had to bend over and clear jams out of the copier machine at work. So I was very aware of what would happen with no breasts. Almost four months out from surgery and I have to say I don't care what people think anymore. I surprised myself that this attitude happened so quickly. I think my husband's attitude helped.
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Pip...yeah...I guess they are helpful if you are doing implants later...but some surgeons just cannot seem to contemplate that some women really mean it when they say they won't be reconstructing. Sometimes I wonder if those surgeons are ashamed of the breastless bodies they create...and feel they must be remade. It is certainly clear that some just cannot fathom that a woman could be content to stay breastless.
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There's apparently some controversy among surgeons about the risks of lymphedema with various types of reconstruction. I spent a lot of time on the lymphedema board for a while after mine developed. I admit, I never payed the closest attention to the specifics of those controversies because I don't and never did have reconstruction plans, but apparently some surgeons believe that reconstruction can improve lymphedema by bringing healthy stowaway lymph node with the autologously transplanted tissue.
I can see the reasoning behind both statements. A big old scar does interrupt lymphatic flow, but purposeful nodal transplant is an area of research right now.
Mellie, if you want the low-down on that controversy, Kira and Binney over on the Lymphedema boards know lymphedema inside-out. They are unbelievably awesome.
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Pip57
You asked about center dog ears. Mine which I not so fondly called "The Mutants" were essentially cones that stood up from the chest. I had to strap them down every single day of my life to prevent them from looking like horns growing out of the center of my chest in clothes. The bases of the cones came together in the very center of my breast bone meaning it was impossible to wear a bra because there was no room for the center seam between the cups. As a result I did not have an option to wear forms. Even if I had endured the torture I did not have the mental and emotional ability to deal with 4 boobs across my chest. When I looked down on them they looked exactly as if I had shirt collars about an inch from the bottom of my breast bone and standing up about 2". As much as I never wanted more surgery, close to 17 months after the initial surgery I had them removed, interestingly enough, using the WHRCA reconstruction law. It was submitted to insurance and approved by them as "reconstruction" which covers ALL phases of reconstruction. I just wanted one phase. FWIW, I specifically chose to only remove the center dog ears. I have long said "Things that don't belong are FAR more disturbing than things that are missing." A missing eye is not nearly so disturbing as an extra eye in your chin.
I chose to ignore the fluffy stuff under my arm for several reasons including reducing time on the table particularly because it had been my original intent to avoid all additional surgery. I also did not want an increased risk of lymphedema by working close to all the lymph nodes in that area besides not wanting to exacerbate the ongoing nerve damage with even more scar tissue. Nearly a year later in hindsight, I still think all of the decisions were good ones for me.
Barbara
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By the way, Barbara, I have been meaning to tell you for ages that I think you look fabulous and much better than when you had your original bust. Those things must have been absolute murder!
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Momine: Thank you and you are exactly right that I feel soooooooo much better without my original bust. In my world, the BMX part has turned out to be far more of a blessing than a loss. For those of you who don't know me from other threads and are fainting out there, being a 40M in my prior life on my frame was no way to live.
Barbara
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Barbara, it is just bizarre that such disfiguring surgery is done. It looks like they didn't quite finish the job. I wonder why that is.
I too was a fairly large breasted woman. Can't say I miss lugging those things around. My posture is much better now. And no indents in the shoulders.
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Pip57,
It is because surgeons sew us up as if our bodies were made of actual ruler drawn straight lines instead of the curves we all have. Dog ears are created the same way you would create a dart in clothing. I have begun to think that surgeons need to have some serious training in clothing construction which would teach them what needs to be done to leave a cleaner more pleasing result. I swear I could do better than alot of them and then there are some of those guys who should just literally go to jail. There are some results I have seen (not mine!!) that are so bad that I do not believe they could have been achieved without outright malice.
Barbara
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I was very, very large busted. My surgeon, who knew I didn't want reconstruction and my goal was a chest that resembled by pre-pubescent chest, asked a plastic surgeon to assist with my BMX. She planned the incisions and as much as I disliked the woman, I will say she understood how to make my skin lie flat over my chest - no dog ears.
A description of my scars - I have scars that run from my sternum to my underarms, along what would be my bra line if I wore a bra. I also have two smaller scars that run from what would be my nipples to the main scar. She described the procedure as a mastoplexy - getting rid of the excess skin. The scars are somewhat similiar to the scars for a breast reduction.
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