I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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Just want to share that I have found a foob that doesn't hurt so much. My problem is neuropathic soreness on the mastectomy site and under the armpit where they took 5 lymph nodes. The foob handed out by the breast nurse was huge and very heavy requiring a fierce bra which hurt like hell. After a lot of research I have come up with a swimming foob - silicon but hollow, more like a shell and much much lighter. All bras seem to hurt but I bought 3 T-shirts from Amoena with inbuilt crop tops which have pockets and hurt less. The pain is down by 50%. The T-shirts don't hurt in the armpit or near the middle of the chest (the dog end) because they are not so tight as a bra. It is nice to have the choice whether to go single breasted or not.
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Starak, that is a great idea, and got me thinking up items last night. I had also thought of it the other day. I looked up the site of Tracy Reese (who made Mrrs. Obama dress for the convention). There was a model on the site who was as close to flat as you can get while actually having boobs. It gave me an idea of what works and what doesn't.
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I don't know what Project Runway is but I am very keen to try to start making clothes for myself. I never wear prostheses anymore but I do prefer to cover my flatness - partly out of vanity but also because I feel so physically vulnerable with just a layer of skin between me and the world.
I like layers and because of the 'delightful' British climate it isn't usually a problem to match up scarves and waistcoats. But in the hot weather I am finding it almost impossible to feel comfortable. Today I have ducked out of an event because it is hot and I cannot cope with flushes/LE swelling AND undisguisable uber-flatness.
Anyway - I am by no means a seamstress but I can cobble things together on a sewing machine and I wondered if anyone else has made or wants to make some unique tops to cover up with. Perhaps share some ideas/advice?
I think I will start a new thread - don't want to derail this one. :O)
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I think MT would be great too. I think Project Runway is in New York or somewhere near that part of the world. That might even be an activity for Flat Fest, to contact the show. If they saw several women who I am presuming, rightly or wrongly, are likely a variety of sizes, shapes and from different walks of life, perhaps the producers would see the possibilities.
Momine, I just looked at the Tracy Reese site and you are right, in terms of flat some of those models are about as flat as you can get. I dare say in some of those outfits, ignoring the difference in size and just concentrating on how the clothes hang across the chest, you would REALLY have to scrutinize to try to pick out the flat models from the Flat & Fabulous. Obviously it can be done and beautifully. Designers would need to have a broader view of the world and embrace all sizes and shapes. The Project Runway episode shown the other night designed for a wide variety of real world women clients. It can be done if the designer will put their mind and heart in it. Some did a beautiful job and others not so much.
Barbara
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Starak, yes, there was one dress in particular that I thought would work well with no boobs at all, based on how it looked on the flat model. It was black with a fairly large ivory print. So, a bold print, but without being overly busy or gaudy. The dress was fairly fitted, but with a fair number of seams on the torso, which broke the pattern and confused the eye further. I am also thinking that shirring could work well.
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Hi greenfrog,
I hate to think of you deciding to skip an event because you're feeling self-conscious about flatness. Maybe for certain occasions when it's too warm to wear layers, you could wear a lightweight breast form (made of foam) with a comfortable camisole or non-constricting bra. I know the lymphedema adds extra challenges, so perhaps that wouldn't work for you. I hear you about the flushes (same as what we in America call hot flashes, I'm assuming). There's a lot to be said for your usually-cool British climate.
By the way, are waistcoats what we here in the U.S. would call vests?
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I can help with sewing and clothing tips and tricks. I have been opening my blouses and shirts and removing darts and making them fit better, I have been doing it with vim and vigor lately. I wonder why I have never done this before. I am going to be getting a dressform within a few weeks. I was thinking of asking on these boards for donations of breast forms, so that I can play around with different sizes of breast forms, patterns, draping. Not so selfishly, I will be getting a form to replicate my body with collapsible shoulders.
I am on a mission to sew an entire wardrobe for myself. And if at the same time I can learn about making clothing (I already of alot of experience, I was a sample cutter, I started out sewing clothing) and come up with some ideas for what we would like to see in clothing, so be it.
I would love to find out more about Project Runway. Does anyone have time to poke around the site and see if there is contact information available? I would try contacting them but can't organize the entire thing.
My Man and I are going away for a much needed vacation this week and boy do we need the time together, Seattle here we come!
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Have a great w/end Mel. It is good to hear from someone who really knows how to use a needle! When you say dressform do you mean like a tailor's mannequin? I have found a couple of women who have designed unique clothing to enhance/disguise/accommodate their mx - very interesting creative stuff. Messing around today I found that empire lines work really well - and I have noticed before that the lower my neckline the less obvious the flatness.
Erica - I feel such a gutless idiot for ducking out but I just couldn't deal with it yesterday. Confidence ebbs and flows! I have bad lymphoedema under my right arm and a nasty hypertrophic scar on the left side. I am in a lot of discomfort a lot of the time - it even wakes me at night - so comfort really is key. I have tried all manner of prostheses and bras but had zero success. Even the thinnest cotton against my scarring hurts like hell - I do think chemo has messed up my pain threshold - I never used to be such a wuss. Oh and yes waistcoats are vests in the US - a vest here is a camisole over there. And yes we flush when you flash!
Given how popular Fashion Targets Breast Cancer (http://cfda.com/programs/fashion-targets-breast-cancer) has been you'd think some of the big designers would have stepped up to design for mx women. Stella McCartney maybe just needs a shove in the right direction ....
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Go with it MT, learning ways to alter and possibly compile what styles work well for every one that goes flat.
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Absolutely love this post. I've been flat as can be since 2005. I tried wearing prosthesis, but it was always so uncomfortable. I didn't liking being sweaty and itchy under a bra. I have very much gotten used to my new body, I'm totally fine walking around ftat-chested, though still don't wear tight-fitting shirts. Have to say though, that I do feel invisible to most men (I'm single, so I notice these things), but I'd rather be flat and comfortable anyday!
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Ok, I got a story. Walked around flat chested ever since the day I woke up from surgery. Didn't even consider the thought of prosthesis, ugh! Too uncomfortable. Anywho, this guy who was a temp at work came to visit. He looked up and down my chest and said, "You got smaller!" Yeah, so to speak!
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Nibbana, that's like the guy who told me I looked good after my weight loss when I came back from maternity leave! Seriously, that's a lot of nerve.
My grandmother had this torso made of a wire mesh; you could adjust the shape by pushing the mess around. I think you had to push pretty hard, and I'm not sure how it originally came to be her exact shape. Is that a form? She did use it for sewing. It's still around my parents' house. Gives me the creeps a little because it has no arms.
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I am in New Orleans for a few days, and yesterday I went into one of the art galleries where an artist was showing a whole BUNCH of wire mesh "forms" of upper human torsos, both male and female. Very interesting work.... I didn't see any flat women, but there was a great deal of variety in the size of the various bustlines...
Just skimming the boards this weekend/week, will be back later... enjoying the weather (although my DH and I DID encounter a couple of hurricanes (alcoholic ones) yesterday evening - LOL!)0 -
Wonderful photos and smart story in October Fitness Magazine about a previvor who had a bilateral mastectomy without reconstruction after she found out she carried a BRCA mutation. Can't seem to find the link but can send a PDF to whoever would like to read it. Just PM me.
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I didn't find the actual article but did find this link to the photographer. Note, it is frontal nudity. You will need to scroll down the page.
http://www.reduxpictures.com/Blog/archive/2012-09
Barbara
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Curious - seems her scars are rather typical in location and that they are horizontal. It is what I have seen most often.
Mine are very different, almost certainly because I told the BS that I wanted the scars to accomodate the fact that I wear alot of v-necks and she did. So mine are long, angled and after the The Mutants (center Dog Ears) removal which left perpendicular scars to the original ones, they are now reminiscent of a somewhat flattened out Masonic symbol. Can't say that I have ever seen photos that look anything like mine. Not a complaint, just an observation.
Barbara
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My scars look a lot like hers, and we are similar types besides. However, my scars are redder and messier looking, I guess partly because of rads.
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Just to be clear, the very talented photographer who took the opening photo is Carly Reis. The others were taken by someone else.
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Before surgery,I forgot to ask my surgeon if I would have diagonal scars or horizontal scars. I started thinking about it the weekend B4 BMX. Decided it really didn't matter to me. So, I didn't find out until after surgery. I have diagonal & was fairly small to start with(32B). It may be more of a surgeon preference than anything else.
Really like the article!
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My scars aren't as straight as hers but they are placed similarly. I didntt think the scars would be as high as they are, Barbara, it didn't occur to me to even ask about placement in relation to v necks. I love the spot between where my breasts were, it still indents some. And I love my scars. I don't mind if they show themselves. In fact, I saw some photographs of Mick Jager when he was young and super thin and oh so rockstar, that is the look for me!
Thankfully, I notice my left scar is turning silver. My scars hurt less at the end of the day, are affected by the friction of clothing less. The skin on my chest still feels sort of tight, but I am noticing it all less.
And better yet, I am not as self conscious of my new look anymore. That was tough, it felt like I was a teenager-hormonal, uncomfortable and gangly. I am also much more able to look into people's eyes and see curiosity with compassion.
I am so glad that our fella flatties are coming out of the closet and speaking up about our choices, feelings and ideas about this insidious disease and what it means for us to be female. It feels great to see other women like myself, in the glossies.0 -
Her chest looks an awful lot like mine. I appreciated that the scars went under the pecs: on me, they kind of blend into the shadow of the muscle a little sometimes. But really, I told my surgeon that I ranked things like this: 1) I wanted to be alive to raise my kids 2) I didn't want to be disabled and then waaaayyyy down the road was 3) What I looked like. She knew I wasn't going to reconstruct. I thought I didn't care and that didn't really turn out to be true, but I think she did great.
I'm not as self-conscious as I was either. I really don't care if someone sees in the locker room anymore. I figure in a way it's like the looseness of my belly from baby-stretching: a badge of something really hard I've done.
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Her scars also look a lot like mine and mine are now all but invisible (after six years). The difference for me though, isn't the scars but the underlying shape of my ribcage. I apparently have the type that is most prominent along the sternum (kind of the opposite of MT1's, which she describes above as indented), then angles away on the sides. This probably explains why even when I had breasts (small C cup), I had no cleavage--my breasts tended to fall outward. This underlying prominence at the middle was exacerbated by the fact that my (excellent) breast surgeon removed virtually every iota of breast tissue on each side but left the non-breast tissue over the sternum. So, when I go flat the slight prominence in the middle is visible, to me at least. I think this is one reason I'm not comfortable going flat in public.
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Erica, I have the same problem with the sternum being so prominent, and my shirts just won't fall into folds appropriately - the sternum thing seems to sort of accentuate the loss of tissue on either side. DH and I have been doing photo shoots with nearly my entire wardrobe over the past few days so that I can actually SEE what I look like in each one. I will send a couple to Mel (I think you are the keeper of the Flatties Photos???- if not, let me know who to send them to for Flat Fest) - am not yet comfortable posting photos of myself on here, but may eventually. I think scarves are most helpful for my appearance as they sort of distract the eye from the sternal prominence.
I had several chest scars from previous childhood surgeries, so asked the BS to take out some of the ugliest part, which she did. I have a V scar also rather than straight across. I'm not sure if straight across would have felt any different - I sitll have lots of neuropathic pain both sides, lots of tightness, both of which respond to myofascial release, which I am trying to do for myself as I don't qualify for PT to do it until November - one year out and they are still for the most part pink, some darker purple/red, still have uncomfortable numbness over much of the area, creepy numbness - can't feel touch, but still burns like fire and sometimes itches without ability to relieve it with scratching - oh, well. Sometimes wearing prostheses puts enough pressure for feedback sensation, with some relief of the pain, other times it aggravates it beyond endurance. One day at a time, sometimes one hour at a time.
Is Flat Fest on this next weekend, or the next, or has it been moved? I have been away from the boards for a few weeks - traveling some, lots of doctor appts & tests. Ugh. So I found a few outfits that look pretty good, a few that I love wearing but really don't look so great according to what my own self-image is.... but am getting more confidence slowly.
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My sternum is very prominent as well. So I don't wear tight tshirts much. They also show the indents.
I get the tops that are more flowing from the neckline.
I find that the prosthesis are quite uncomfortable because there is no padding left.
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I am sorry to read of problems, certainly I wish this were easier for everyone...Linda, I could have written your words myself. And my sternum is prominent also. I pulled a tan t shirt I have not worn since before surgery, took one look at myself and pulled it off and into the good-will bag.
But then I had a tough weekend. As some of you know I was so excited for my new silicon size 5's, and they were miserable all weekend. I had to take advil. I cannot make this choice anymore, silicon has to be out of the picture, or worn only for a few hours.
I just feel disappointed, this is not a good product the insurance is paying for, and I don't know what to do about this.
And now i have all of those awful sensations again, the itching that cannot be scratched, the burning...sigh.
Ericka, do the memory foam forms hurt you if worn too long, or are you pretty ok with them now? Anyone else?
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crystal,
I'm sorry the silicone froms have been a disappointment for you. I don't tend to wear them myself for more than a few hours at a time in warm weather (I wear them longer in colder weather, when perspiration isn't a problem). But I do find that I can wear various foam forms all day long with no problem. Hopefully, over time your chest will become less sensitive and that will give you more options.
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I like the Amoena 126 foam forms, which are way less expensive than the memory foam ones, and very lightweight.
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I found the plain foam to be more comfortable than the memory foam.
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I had problems with the light forms shifting. One of the great things about going flat is not having to wear a bra at all. Nothing binding.
Re itching. I remember that well. It feels like it is an inch under the surface of your skin and you can't reach it. I still get it occassionally but not that often. (5 years out)
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Crystal - have you ever tried Aqueous Calamine Cream? (Don't know if it is called the same thing in the US).
I have horrible burning itching and pain with my hypertrophic mx scar and it is the only product I have found which works. It is wonderful stuff.
Since dx I have accumulated drawers full of bras and prostheses - none of them are comfortable and I have wasted huge amounts of money. I had a clear out last weekend and threw them all away. It was very liberating because I was so fed up with feeling disappointed and uncomfortable.
My breasts are gone, never to return. Ever. Pretending they are still there in some way just doesn't work for me any more.
We all have to navigate this in our own way and it takes a while to find out what works for you.
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