I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
Comments
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Mumito, I am glad you told me. I am going into rads kicking and screaming. I don't want them. The only reason I am doing it is I am too afraid not too.
MT1, Rads make the area heal more? Did I understand correctly? It sounds nice to be over one year out. When you are in the midst of it you can't ever imagine a life past all this. It is good to hear.
Pam0 -
OK, I just saw the gorgeous photos my DH took of my while trying out my wardrobe. I look drop-dead gorgeous in a couple, pretty darn good in most, did find one look that I used to like but doesn't do so well on me now. Do we have a place to post those photos yet? I am willing to share, would love to see how others are looking - fabulous, I am SURE!
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When I first went bald from chemo, it amazed me that everyone in the world seemed to have hair; as I prepare to return to work for the first time tomorrow after emergency surgery to remove infected implants, I know I will also be looking for other flat-chested women. But I know two who are flat without BC, and they are of no comfort. In fact, one of my biological sisters, flat after breast feeding, actually expressed jealousy (twice!) that I was bigger than her during the tissue expanding stage. She made more insensitive remarks comparing her situation to mine during my recent emergency, traumatic hospitalization and is now banned for life from ever using the words "flat," "breast," or "chest" in communication with me.
I was ambivalent about doing reconstruction in the first place, but after going through the saline injections, living for months with what looked like normal breasts under clothes (full shape but no bras!), then going in for what was supposed to be a minor exchange of expanders for implants, only to wind up in an ambulance 6 days later, was awful. Seeing what I looked like after the procedure to remove the implants was awful. The PS team was shocked that I wanted both out even though only one was infected. Oddly, to me, they thought I would be okay being lopsided, or assumed I would want replacement of the infected implant. I am soooo done with reconstruction. But if the strange lumps on my chest do not go down by themselves (I'm told they could be swelling or fluid and to give it six months), I may voluntarily go back into an OR to be truly flat. For now, I have banished many tops from my presence; purchased vests (layering is a challenge with hot flashes but hides the lumps); and bought prostheses for special occasions and to wear with clothes I can't bear to give up but can't wear flat. The irony of this whole thing is that now my dream is to be truly, fully flat and rid of the strange flesh formations. I named the largest flesh formation Hulga, after a character in a short story who wanted the ugliest name possible. Then Hulga moved to a different location on my chest, so who knows what will happen next. I am dealing better with the mirror, but going back to work is going to be a whole new challenge. I feel like I am returning as the ghost of my former self, between the lost (fake) breasts and the weight loss from all my energy going into healing. And here I'd thought my post-chemo pre-styled poodle hair was my biggest self-image problem!
So far as the union idea goes, I say let in only those who've had mastectomies. The women who are flat for other reasons do not get it.0 -
Merylin,
That is truly awful what you had to go through. I am only 6 days out from my BMX but I imagine you are right, a woman who is a AA or less is not truly flat. We have mastectomy scars and no nipples and it is not the same thing. I haven't seen the final results in clothes yet, but I imagine I will be flatter that a ten year old girl but not concave.
Everyone, I don't want to disguise my flatness with clothes by layering and vests, not me, I don't want hide it...
Yet, I guess a clingy, stretch material I can't do. I am curious what it will be like to try on my old clothes once I heal.
Pam0 -
Merylin,
That is truly awful what you had to go through. I am only 6 days out from my BMX but I imagine you are right, a woman who is a AA or less is not truly flat. We have mastectomy scars and no nipples and it is not the same thing. I haven't seen the final results in clothes yet, but I imagine I will be flatter that a ten year old girl but not concave.
Everyone, I don't want to disguise my flatness with clothes by layering and vests, not me, I don't want hide it...
Yet, I guess a clingy, stretch material I can't do. I am curious what it will be like to try on my old clothes once I heal.
Pam0 -
I was an A before BMX, and you are very right - it is totally different!!!! Lacking a little mound of fat naturally is one thing, but loss of tissue, nipples, sensation, and for some, continuing pain issues .... that is completely different. I don't look a lot different than before, although a few things definitely did not show up the concavity that I now have, and mostly I am becoming so much more confident in my body and clothes. I am 1 year post BMX this week, still have lots of pain/sensitivity issues, but am able to look in the mirror without crying, touch my body without cringing. I am very glad I did not have reconstruction, knew I wasn't going to do it from the start, but assumed I would naturally want prosthetics. Tried them, hated them for daily use as the bras were so uncomfortable, use the rarely.
By the way, I love vests, but a couple of my favorites actually seem to accentuate the concave form - they don't fill out from breast, and I was surprised at how they look on me - not nearly as good as I thought they were. Scarves work well. Also, some of the tighter-fitting clothes looked better than I thought they would!
I have my second recurrence, scheduled for surgery next week (BS says there is still a very good chance we can get this "cured" - sure wish I believed her, sure hope she is right!), and am very glad we don't have implants to work around, and I am not going to have to deal with bras and stuff after this little procedure.
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Thanks Pamela, Linda, and Happee for responding. So sorry, Linda, that you're dealing with recurrence and more surgery. You make a really good point about the advantage of surgeon not having to work around implants.
To clarify, I'm wearing vests not to hide the flatness, but to hide the odd shapes in odd places left after the surgery to remove the infected implants. Loose tops work too, but anything form-fitting looks weird. If the odd shapes turn out to be fluid that gets reabsorbed into my body, the form-fitting tops will return from exile in my attic! Meanwhile, this thread is really helping me get emotionally ready to return to work tomorrow. Best of luck with your return, too, Happee.0 -
Remember it is a process... so don't be discouraged if you feel self conscious for the first while. You will probably be surprised how many people won't notice unless they know your story.
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Pamela,
I don't wear plain knit tops to work because I try pretty hard not to draw any attention at all to myself by how I dress there (some of the people with whom I work have pretty bad boundaries issues and it's just better to keep the things about myself more likely to draw a comment to a minimum), but I wear them all the time other places.
I think it just depends on if you want to "pass" or not. At work, I want to "pass" as much as possible because any time spent fending off personal questions is time poorly spent for me. The odd thing is that I'm not sure if people notice even when I'm not dressed for work.
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pamelahope,
The way they described it to me, radiation kills off all the cells that are not essential, clearing the way for the good, strong cells to heal. My oncologist says some plastic surgeons are using a slight form of radiation to help reconstructive and implant surgeries to heal faster, I assume he means even people who do not need radiation.
For me, radiation was terrifying and I needed to psych myself up, calm myself down and work very hard to just go each day. It was my more freightening to do than to take chemotherapy. The machine scared me, the 12" door closing me in terrified me, the bolus being used, or not used, or placed improperly, I could hardly stand it. I did a chant telling myself this was good for me and would help, I cried often during that month and I was extatic when I learned that my doctor, after initially telling me I would need 33 treatment, ended it after 28.
As for clothing, I won't hide my body either. I love how my little body looks in tight tank tops (on hot days, you bet, I wore them, low cut shirts, dresses, pants, I am switching my wardrobe to button down printed long and short sleeved shirts, which I think say 'female' because of the color and help the eye drift and make assumptions. But I refuse to bag out and cover up my flatness, there is no need.
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My thoughts on trying on old clothing (before mastectomy clothing) is to try things twice before you donate or get rid of clothing.
I have found I have days where *nothing* looks good, and other days where the same thing seems just fine. I think our brains need time to catch up to the changes.
One interesting experience I had, wearing a snug knitted top...(and I am concave!) is a few women wanted to know how my reconstruction was going. Hmmmm.....I can't imagine what they were thinking, being polite? Nudging me into recon??
Well, people don't know what to say sometimes I suppose.
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MT--Can we see you on tv today? Which ABC program is interviewing you??
LOve yoU
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OMG, they are having Warrior in Pink stuff on Price is Right at this very moment!!! ARRRGGHHH!!!!!! Everyone in the audience is in pink, Drew Carey is in a pink shirt, they are giving away tons of pink stuff with pink ribbons on it!!!! Breast cancer survivors are participating, sitting in a block in the front, wearing pink t-shirts. Mastectomy patients - no flatties that I can see. Lots of full-bosomed ladies there.
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I feel o.k. with me, but haven't been able to go flat for church, work, out for dinner, etc. . . I am perfectly fine being flat at home, while walking, some local "run-to-the-store" stuff, with my best friend . . . . . . I'd like to get very comfortable with ALWAYS flat . . . I am not militantly so about it . . . my husband keeps saying, NO ONE NOTICES - I believe he is correct . . . I am "old" . . . not supposed to be like a teenager thinking that everyone is looking at me . . . . because THEY ARE NOT! truly, who really cares . . . I am NOT a beauty, I will NOT turn heads . . . and FASHION these days is on our side girls - all these flowing multi layered ruffly things and SCARFS . . . truly, not a bad time to be flat . . . I would NEVER give up the comfort, I am SOOOOOOO glad I don't have to wear uncomfortable bras EVER AGAIN - with my prosthesis I wear only aneome camisoles and T-shirts - comfortable and nice looking . . .
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Hi Fern!! I believe your husband is correct. I know it, actually. It's so fun to go out without any bumps because even people who have known me for years don't see what's missing. They usually say things like, "You look fantastic." To them, I look like I've lost some weight.
It is a bit like jumping off the high dive, though. Fun once you get past the jumping part.
Do what feels right to you! Hugs, HR
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I did it! We taped the program about the pool program, it will be local, ABC news at 5 and I will let you know when. I was interviewed, it is a tiny 90 second story.
In the meantime, I spoke with the reporter about the Call For: Breast Pockets. She said, if I can get 1000 breast pockets, she will consider doing a story. Please help me raise awareness for us Flatties!
http://melanietesta.com/2012/10/breast-pockets-with-deadline-1000-pockets-in-3-weeks/0 -
Excellent. We are lucky to have you start this movement for us!! Please post a link when they air it.
I am a terrible sewer so my pockets will be paper.
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Pip! I most certainly will. When they taped I made sure no towel obstructed the view of my wonderfully flat body. I didn't get to say much on our flat behalf, but I represented! And if we can get 1000 pockets made, there will be another chance to speak up!
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MT1, That is so cool you got on TV, especially flat. You probably gave other women courage, if they even noticed your flatness!!!!! You gave me hope about tank tops. However, to be honest they never looked good on me before. I cant imagine they will look better! Your reaction to radiation is exactly the way I feel. I am dreading it. I was depressed today thinking about it. I am totally okay being flat though. I am actually enjoying being liberated from bras. Plus the challenge of it. What a great way to find out who your real friends are and to separate the open minded from the not. I may actually end up meeting really special people! I can't wait to see the link if you know how to post it.
Happy2 be me, I love your attitude. That is how I feel. However, of course, I am to newly flat to comment more.
Fern, Your husband is right. My husband doesn't even care. He calls boobs ticking time bombs.
Everyone, I don't like to clothes shop much but I am starting to get excited to go shopping for new clothes once I heal. It will be an excuse to dress nicer!
Pam0 -
MT...can you pm an address I can send it to? I think I will knit a pocket. I just learned basic knitting this summer...it is the extent of my craftiness...:)
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pamelahope-
I wear spagetti strap camisoles in public too! One of my favorite dresses is a bias tank style dress and it looks even better than it did when I was a 34DD.Some days you will want to show your flat chested glory off, others you might like the privacy of a nice scarf. And heck, if you want to wear forms you can go from size A to?? We do have that option. I don't want that, but I love the -thought- of having a few forms in the top drawer. You won't need to get rid of all of your clothing either, take it slow and have fun with it.
FernMF- gosh, I hated the intense self awareness that I felt even so long as 3 months ago. That teenaged, angst filled, introspection does end! Mostly people don't notice. When they do? Oh well.
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I just returned from a conference ( not for BC) and am feeling better than I have in months. My
specific small group session was a writing workshop, and after much internal
debate, I decided to write about the decision to go flat post BMX. At the end of the weekend we took turns reading our pieces aloud. I was sweating big time, and not because of the usual
hot-flash reasons. Yet I was pleasantly surprised by the outcome. It was a small group (maybe 11 or so), but all of the women lingered afterward with words of encouragement and support. Several suggested that I try to publish it, as they felt it was an important addition to our media's "conversation" about breast cancer. One hugged me and said, "You've given me a lot to think about. Thank you!"I wept on the ride home...partly because I was downright giddy to
be done, but also because it felt so good to have other women validate my
choices. I know the opinions of others shouldn't matter, but my oh my, they
do.To Melly and all the other sisters in flatness on this thread: THANK YOU! Your humor, courage and honesty have been such a source of inspiration. I am humbled by your clarity, and grateful to have found you.
Here's to being visible in whichever ways we choose.
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Pam, I used to consider clothes shopping a chore, but post-cancer, I have actually started finding it fun. It helps that getting rid of the cancer also got rid of 25 pounds or so. But I started dressing better during treatment, because I found that it helped my morale. Now that I am done, I have continued, as a sort of celebration of being alive, I guess.
I am not talking about anything extravagant, but I now have a collection of scarves and belts, things I never bothered with before. I now own more than one handbag. I also own hats. If I see shoes I really, really like, I buy them.
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Wrongchick, that is very cool as is Mel's TV appearance. I do think it is something that needs to be part of the conversation. Also from the point of view of making women fear it less. Most people react to the BMX info as if I lost my beloved puppy or worse. If our experiences were out there more, hopefully it would cease to be seen as trauma of the century.
I get on weird kicks once in a while, and this week it has been Prince videos. It struck me that some of the old Prince looks, the shirts with extravagant ruffles in front, topped by bolero jackets or other sharply tailored jackets left open in front could work well for the flat look as well.
Then I found a cheap dress at Amazon and bought it on a lark. It has a horizontal band at the top, held up with spaghetti straps, and the dress itself is gathered and falls from the band. The band is supposed to hit above the bust line. Because I am close to 50, spaghetti straps look slightly ridiculous, but as a concept the dress works. It does not hide the flat, but the gathers falling over the bust provide just enough confusion that it is not obvious. The dress I bought is white, but I think I will make some for next summer in either dark colors or prints, make the horizontal band a little narrower and add some wider straps.
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You Gals are clever!! My husband went and taped the news last night JUST IN CASE you were on, MT!! And we watched the whole thing from beginning to end, which we never do. I fell asleep at some point and when it was over, asked my 10 yr. old son if you were on. He answered, "No," with some disappointment. There's a beautiful nugget of awareness, right there.
Wrongchick! Congratulations on your brave writing and sharing!! I'll be thinking of you for a while to come as I decide how/what/when to write or share. I've been keeping an online journal since the day of my very first biopsy, before I knew it was bc. Keeps me happy. But there are always times when I'm about to post, but I'm thinking...omg can I REALLY be this explicit? Fortunately there are a few readers who give me just the feedback I need to keep pointing north.
Some hugs for EVERYBODY
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A story for Fern, only because I immediately thought of Fern as it was going down:
Off and on over the years I swim with a group of master swimmers in my very small hometown. It's a pretty small core group and for the last few years, since my shoulder started to act up, my husband swims with them more often than I do. By small I mean 8-12. Small enough that we all know the color of each other's swim suits. Haircuts, that sort of thing. We readily notice new stuff about each other. Hardly 8 on any given day.
Yesterday was my big debut, coming back for the first time since diagnosis. Because my arms are finally up over my head in a streamline glide, but I am by no means in any kind of shape for a real workout, I plan it so I arrive just as their swim is winding down. Cool down. I shower first in the poolside shower and I see them squinting at me because they don't have their glasses on. Cute!! Is that Amy? They're asking me. I'm smiling, scared to death because I am in my swim suit. All I can think about is how they must all be looking at my chest. Smile of STEEL.
A nice woman scoots over for me so I can share her lane. I explain my strategy about doing a few laps to warm up just in time to join them for their cool down. Turns out, they still had a set that I could actually do, and WOW WAS I THRILLED! Completely forgot about the you-know-what except for my fantasy that they were all watching, thinking I was somehow making this amazing come back and how proud they are of me.
When I got to the wall, one of the female swimmers commented on how I usually wear a red suit. "Don't you have a red suit, Amy?" So I explained that my scars go all the way under my armpit, and the seams on that one really rub. She nodded. They all did, sort of. But politely. Not comprehending. In a very loving, pondering, adorable way they were trying to figure something out. My husband says nothing. Then my lane mate quietly asked me, "Are you pregnant?" And I laughed, saying no, but now that I can see my own tummy, I know I have to swim more." Still not fully comprehending. (This is when I thought of our precious flattie thread, where we consider whether people see our lack of boobs.)
Remembering my comment about the scars, someone said, "Did you have surgery, Amy?" My husband stifles a laugh.
"Yes." Still, they can't quite figure out what is different about me. They are looking straight at my body IN A BATHING SUIT and they don't see what is gone. Finally I can't stand the suspense anymore. So I just say, "But I won't need radiation or chemo now."
That's when one of them whispers, "Was it breast cancer?" Adding, "I had no idea."
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Happy, I loved your story, thanks. I too have had experiences like this. It is an odd thing because some people zone right in on "missing breasts" and others just look right past it all.
I also love the thought in an earlier post, (the woman who wrote about being flat) and the idea if we are more present in public, some of the fear would leave from the stigma of breast cancer. I personally was terrified every mammogram time, ever since I turned 40...dreading the very worst, even though I can't say I ever knew what the very worst was.
How encouraging it would be to see active happy secure women without breasts. We are not proving a point, or putting ourselves out there, I am just trying to live my life without the discomfort of forms and without the band of a bra to make lymphedema worse.
I am so encouraged to read all the posts here.
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Happyraccoon, I have had similar experiences. I not only had the surgery but also lost a bunch of weight as well. Most people who have not seen me in a long time and know nothing about the BC just see the weight loss. Which brings up another point ladies. If you want to look like you have lost weight without losing any, go flat.
Thanks to a better diet, more exercise and an official office health kick, my stomach is pretty much in line with my chest. I do have to control the leftover extra skin roll and give myself an illusion of an hourglass figure with wide stretch belts.
I work less than a block from a Susan G. Komen office where I wandered in one day on my lunch hour walk. Flatter than a pancake with no attempt to hide it and I had to bring it up. They never noticed.
Depending on how one looks at it or feels about it, I have found the real reality of going flat is that you are far more likely to be invisible. Ironic really.
Barbara
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I was trying on some blouses in a nice women's shop. The blouses were print and kind of floaty with a slight ruffle around the V-neckline, but not enough ruffle that it went into what would be breast territory at all. The salesgirl asked me how I was doing and I stepped out to where two of them were standing and asked what did they think of the blouse on me. They both looked me over really well and said it looked very nice on me. I asked if you could tell that I don't have breasts and they both just about swallowed their tongues, it would have been impossible to fake their reaction. Here were two women who work with fashion and they had looked me over really well and neither one had noticed that I'm beyond flat. I bought two of those blouses.
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Happy, I loved your story but I love your screen name. I love calling you happy. What type of suit do you wear after a BMX. I was thinking I can wear a Speedo bikini. Is that sports bra type top reasonable? I also have a one piece tank, champion. I am a week out from surgery so I can't try things on yet.
Starak, Good point that with this surgery I can't get my stomach bigger than my chest. I am holding but good motivation to continue!!!
Riverrat, Interesting about the salesgirl.
I don't know about anyone else but for me losing my breasts has been the easiest part of this process. Diagnosis, chemo, and now sitting here with drains is way worse. I am up for radiation next. Being flat is perfectly fine!!! I just want hair!!!
Pam0
