I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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So here's the nightmare I had the other night: I'd been secretly photographed while in a dressing room at a department store, and the store had posted a photo of my chest, with my name, on the Internet. When people googled me,they would see this photo. Through much of the dream I was SCREAMING "my students will see this!".
So I guess someone was feeling pretty naked, exposed, and vulnerable during her first week back at work. Dearest partner talked me down after the dream,then read me the mental health riot act in the morning. We are all exhausted and traumatized here, and healing will take time. This is a given. But the mental health riot act I did not need after pushing so hard, mentally and physically, to return to work. All three in our family are in counseling; the warnings about how the worst of the trauma hits after the in intensive treatment period ends are true in our case, but especially because last surgery was emergency, no opportunity to prepare,and subconscious message for son was that life is very unpredictable and thus scary. He's having constant nightmares about me dying. Nights are very lively around here:)0 -
My kids are 18, 10, and 9. For the 18 y.o. we had to postpone surgery until he left for college. Our diagnosis came almost a month before he was starting school in a distant state (across the country.) We decided to bring the subject up as an opener, and just listen for whatever he wanted to discuss. Turns out he did not ask a single question, even to this day. Too much for him to think about right now, during the huge milestone in his own life. So, we postponed surgery until he left for school. Smart. He missed all of it. Now we skype and he still does not talk about it. Maybe when his adult life feels comfortable, familiar, powerful he may ask questions. Or not. Who knows?
My 10 y.o. is also not very verbal about it. He hasn't seen my body at all for a long time (years) and so he has not seen the change, either. He knows about the surgery of course, because we had to train them not to wrestle or hug or jostle me. We are a very demonstrative family, eating dinner in bed, dogpiling, etc. So that was a big change. Things were tense with him for a bit, but once I was getting my hugs back it got better. Accidently he has seen but girls are disgusting to him in general, so he was repulsed and left my bedroom quickly.
My 9 y.o. daughter is a completely different matter. She has seen. She is disgusted a bit. Scars, especially fresh ones are horrifying. I have been puzzling over how this whole bc thing is affecting her image of womanhood. I certainly feel less like a woman. Not feminine. It suits me a bit to be androgynous. I'm ok with it. But she is a very girly girl. Very. And she is looking very much forward to her womanhood, the way she imagines it. Turns out, her ideas about it--possibly her feminine nature--contrasts sharply with mine. Now even more so. I want to connect with her and give her a strong role model. Just now, during this drastic change of my body and my way of seeing the world a carcinogenic, I am not sure I can be a strong woman for her. But I know my preconceptions are hilarious in God's mind. I have no idea what my daughter will really get out of this!! I hope it's what she needs.
None of the kids saw my chest when the drains were in. Except maybe for a moment when they wanted to see, but not for more than just a moment. I wear big tshirts mostly and loose clothing in general, so I don't really look that much different. My friends have been in and out of the house helping out in call kinds of ways (unimaginably generous with their time, energy, love, and acceptance) so the kids witnessed so many important ways of being around this. That was the hugest, most unanticipated gift.
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Pip and Pamela, my annual mammograms were all fine. Found my lump myself just 3 months after my PCP had done a breast exam and found nothing. It was over 3 cm. After lumpectomy, follow-up mammogram was fine, less than 2 months later found the recurrence. Dense breasts were blamed for not seeing it on mammogram, so I opted for BMX despite some comments that surgeons don't really like to remove a "healthy" breast! So far, probably the best decision I have made regarding my treatment to date.
Merilyn, I struggled to continue working for the first 2 years after my initial diagnosis, worked through surgery, chemo..... etc.... and looking back, I should have taken time off then to heal physically as well as mentally & spiritually. I finally could not do the job properly any longer, and finally agreed to take time off. Again, this was a good decision, and I wish I had done this earlier as I might be back to full time work that I love by now - we will never know for sure, but I am FINALLY feeling like healing is occurring. Each day brings moments of joy rather than non-stop anxiety.
Getting ready to swap out summer wardrobe for fall & winter.... what a chore! I just got used to my summer things, finally found things that l think I look good in and feel comfortable in and now I have to do it all over. A challenge and an opportunity! May have to do a little shopping and wardrobe augmentation to get the look I want.0 -
I forgot to mention that the 9&10y.o both climbed into bed with me while I was in the early stages of recovery from BMX. Just holding my hand. Or leaning their head on my shoulder.
Another part that was seriously wonderful was that my dx came just a few days before the Relay for Life. I took them with me, thinking we would be there for just a little bit. But there was a bouncy house there and losts of cool stuff and amazing, uplifting people with lots of spirit and grit. My kids ended up BEGGING to stay the night. My husband ran home and brought us the tent and sleeping bags and yummy junk food. We set up the tent RIGHT next to the bouncy house, so close that it practically bounced all night. We had a BLAST. It was the perfect way to give cancer a positive culture. Play. Contribute. Connect. Wonderful.
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Oh... and we read picture books about cancer, too. That was great.
I left a small collection of kids' books about cancer on the coffee table. I noticed them reading according to taste.
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My daughter is 20, but she has not seen my chest. Then again she never saw my chest before the surgery either. I am always covered when she is around.
However, I do not wear foobs in the house, so the flatness is obvious when I hang around in jammies, which I do a fair amount. It does not seem to bother her.
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Merylin, how old is your son?
It's just not FAIR!! I'm so sorry this has been hard for you/us/him!!! Your dream is so real. Such a teaching dream!! Bless you for going back to the classroom. But that takes so much energy, just to teach from a perfectly healthy baseline, much less a recovering from cancer trauma baseline. I will be thinking positive thoughts for you. Lots.
I'm so curious; what is the mental health riot act? Is it like chez nous where every day I'm being told to do less and take better care about myself? I don't know how to think about just myself. Or, I can, if I am fully concentrating all of my fear onto something else. My fear is IN my body.
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Linda, it's so helpful for me to hear what your work timeline was like. What your results were.
I am kind of a lightweight in terms of how much treatment I need compared to most of you ladies. But it's good to have cohorts that know what healing looks, feels, sounds like.
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Back on the topic of being a flattie: Yesterday I was at a writer's workshop. Due to lumbar strain (recurring due to overdoing stubbornness on my part) I was not able to sit in a chair. So I stood, rocking slightly from hip to hip to keep the spasms from coming back. From time to time, I ducked down in the corner, lying on the carpet with my feet up on a chair.
Mind you, I live on a small island where most people know each other, or at least familiar faces. At this workshop, I knew only one person really well. She was the ONLY one who knew I had bc and bmx.
The others never ONCE looked at my chest, wondering what's missing. They just don't see it! In a tshirt, I look so normal to them, that they accept my physique without doubletake. I suppressed a strong desire to bring up the fact that I have just lost my breasts to breast cancer. I didn't say it. In fact, I never said a word during the workshop.
I came home with a new kind of grief. Is it really over? My breasts are gone? No one sees that they are gone? No one remembers that they were there? No one remembers what they looked like? No one thinks about what happened to me?
And, that without breasts, I am not fitting into roles like I used to. I watched as OTHER women fit into those roles in the group. More attention. Flat women are more invisible. I hope this is just a phase of my healing. But it fascinates me what people do/don't expect from me as a woman. ...do/don't expect from other women. What actually is womanhood? Do I still have it? It would be easier to know, for sure, that I am normal (and wonderful) if you all lived in my same town and a bunch of us looked this way, being fabulous.
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Oh Happy, there are so many complicated parts to being noticed. My partner went to a composting workshop with a good friend of ours who is younger and happens to be strikingly beautiful. She wears no makeup, dresses similarly to how we do (kind of outdoorsy/cheap), and doesn't exercise as much as we do. My partner remarked afterward that during a question/answer portion she began to watch how the presenters gave our friend more attention.
For me, I have never fit into roles well. Or maybe I've fit into roles, but never been able to fit into "the look" of a lot of roles. There are a lot of things I "do" very well, but all my life I've never felt I quite looked quite right doing them. It is the oddest thing, but since the BMX, I have become more comfortable with that. It was always a thng that nagged at me at events or my kids' preschool - now I just don't care. But it's also grabbing more psychological progress than is my due to to say that because my wide shoulders fit better into clothes now, so maybe it's that too. I don't know.
I think it was simpler with my kids at such a young age. All this time I've thought it was rotten that it happened when they were so little - and in a lot of ways it was - but at least so much of the world is new to them that I don't think it gave them as much complicated stuff to think about as it would have if they were older. My daughter, who was 3 and still nursing some at the time of my diagnosis, missed the nursing quite a bit. She was definitely in the homestretch of it before the surgery, but stopping very suddenly made that stopping an issue. Right after the surgery, before chemo, I let her nurse on my arms. But we haven't had to deal with any gender-role stuff, or definition of womanhood. Both she and my son have remarked casually from time-to-time that I look like a man, but ironically I think that's more my short hair. My hair just hasn't grown well since chemo so this may be my look for life.
Actually, the hot-topic gender-role issue in our house has been hair. At 3-1/2, my daughter asked to get her hair cut like her friend Abbott's - Abbott has a totally average little-boy cut. She couldn't stand having us brush it. So, we did. She had it short for a couple hair cuts, then decided she wanted to let it grow out. So by 5-1/2 she had long hair again and loves accessories. My son at 3-1/2 announced he wanted to let his grow out. That lasted until my partner couldn't stand to see it in his eyes and started to bug him to brush it behind his ear. Then he got it cut again, but now, at 4, he's back to a long-haired little guy. The longest parts are near his shoulders. He had bangs, and those now go behind his ears. I'm not sure what his goal is - he doesn't seem to be trying to look like a girl - but he looks good. I don't know about the rest of the country, but long-haired boys, some Native, some not, are pretty common around here, so he doesn't get many comments, but we don't know any very well. One comes occasionally to Quaker meeting, but I doubt my son even remembers him. We are letting him decide this - heaven knows we have enough battles with this headstrong kid that we're not going to push him one way or the other about a haircut.
For my daughter, many magnitudes greater than dealing with any change in my looks, has been dealing with the possibility of my early death. When she was still 3, she asked me if she had a baby would I be the baby's grandmother? I must have paused before saying yes, thinking a moment that I will feel so lucky to be a grandmother if that happens, and she then said "I don't want you to die of cancer." I just tell her, as is true, that I am doing everything I can to keep that from happening.
Merylin, I was off my rocker for a while after treatment ended. I was so lost, and so on-edge. I worked mornings at a job that was fairly easy at that time (since has become harder), and had afternoons with the kids. But the kids were napping, or at least they were supposed to be, and a lot of times it was me with two tired, cranky preschoolers. I just couldn't take it. We also needed more money. So about 4,5 months after treatment ended I started the process of going back to work full time. It didn't actually happen until I was 9 months out. At 9 months, when I was back full-time, I was so sure I couldn't have done it earlier. My job is intellectually demanding, and I was still foggy and tired from treatment even then. I was also still having a ton of nightmares then, although mine were all about cancer coming back, or death and loss. But it did keep getting better.
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There was no way I could work during tx. I took the time off. When I was ready, my boss let me come in when I felt like it and stay for only an hour or so if that was all I could manage. I am now back part time which really suits me for several reasons.
I am laughing about the hair issues with kids. I too believed that there were bigger fights than the length or colour of hair. There was a lot of experimenting (same with the facial hair the boys) and now they are 'fairly' normal adults. lol
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I've lurked on this thread, and unbeknownst to you, you all have helped me make a very important decision, and to feel good and confident in my choice.
I'm scheduled for my BMX next week. I consulted with a plastic surgeon a bit over a month ago, and that visit is what made me consider not reconstructing, which I had not considered prior to that. The reconstruction process, honestly, scares me. My spouse and I have had many sleepless nights talking about it, I've scoured the internet for pictures and personal stories, and yes, perused this thread (and others here).
My dear husband reassures me that he'll love me regardless of what I look like. In fact, he's the one that brought up the initial conversation about me staying flat. He said the idea of me having any more surgeries scares him. I have a young son, and he seems to be handling it ok (although he did get upset the other night when he told me my hugs wouldn't feel the same).
I do feel like I'm in a bit of denial about what's ahead - I still haven't quite comprehended that my surgery is in just a bit over a week. But I'm trying.
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CSMommy, all the best for your surgery. Also keep in mind that if a year down the road, or two or three, you change your mind, there is no reason why you can't have reconstruction at a later date.
The surgeons tend to push the immediate expander placement to "save" you a surgery. But if you need radiation, there are more chances of complications, so it can easily end up saving you nothing. Either way, there is no real reason that it has to be now.
I am glad you found us.
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Tell your son that after surgery you will be able to hug him even closer to your heart.
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CsMommy,
Good luck to you. I just had my surgery on the 24th of Sept. My husband also did not want me to get implants and also I was afraid to get them. I don't think I will be happy with them. It looks like I am getting radiation and they recommended delaying reconstruction. I was relieved as I wasn't sure I wanted reconstruction. After chemo, and diagnosis, how much can one person take! Plus, in a lot of the pictures I saw there was so much variation in results, I had no idea what I would get.
I do have to say, two weeks after surgery, I am flatter than flat. It takes some getting used to. I think I am having more of a hard time because my hair is gone too. I was doing good immediately after surgery but the reality is hitting me now.
Pam0 -
Pam I missed my hair more than my breasts.Even now 4 years later I keep it long and am thinking about tatoos because I did not get my eyebrows back.
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Mum, I am thinking the same thing as I put my wig on today and the breasts don't botherc me as much.
Everyone, Did everyones chest feel really tight after the mastectomy? I feel like I am wearing ten, really tight sports bras. Does it go away? Pam0 -
Pamela!! That tightness!!! It was CONSTANT!!! Now I'm in the 5th week and the tightness comes and goes. But I remember it. It was so tight, I thought I had steel cable tightening around me. Very much in the same way an underwire bra does.
The only thing that helped, I think, was waiting patiently. I stretched (still do) and did my physical therapy despite pain, knowing that I want my body to heal with as much range of motion as possible.
Every time i stretched, it felt like I was tearing cells down a bit. Burning, splitting, etc. But I do have almost 100% ROM and now it doesn't burn or feel tight. Except for in the evenings and/or mornings when i am less active. Sometimes the pain wakes me up in the middle of the night, still. It feels like huge scabs forming UNDER my skin. Like an invisible scab bra.
My pt says massage, stretches, and exercises are the key. I don't feel like doing all of that sometimes, but I try to stick to the routine.
My heart goes out to you, though, because it was SO TIGHT and I feel as if I know or can guess what you are going through there.
I have never lost all of my hair. (no chemo) But I did lose big patches on the front of my forehead after my last two pregnancies. It was awful. Only way to hide it was a hat. I'm so sorry. How will you remember these days? It just seems so hard and you are doing such a good job of taking care of yourself and your family. Here's some (((hugs))) very, very soft ones.
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CS, You will not be alone in surgery; we'll be there with you. We'll be there after, too.
For what it's worth, I am VERY happy with my decision. Simple, precise. Get it all at once.
Have any of you heard of other women who actually had undiagnosed cancer in the "healthy" breast but didn't know about it until after BMX? That's what happened to me. Before I made my decision, the MRI showed a total of 5 lesions in both breasts, but because the primary biopsy was SO bad, I wouldn't let them biopsy anything else. Their plan was to treat the left and then start diagnosis on the right in December. It didn't take me long to shout NO WAY!! I can't drag this out with poking, cutting, and fiddling. Take them both off, now!
And sure enough, pathology confirmed my instinct. Thank goodness! It's a really good thing. I'm just not tough enough for things like mri-guided biopsies and wire bracketing.
There are so many positives to not having breasts once they head into such territory.
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....AND
no
more
mammograms!!!!
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One more thing. (forgive me for writing so much; I just really need to be here right now because otherwise I am crying or throwing small stuffed animals--only because I am too weak to throw pillows
) It just feels so good to channel the feelings toward people who have some experience in this cancer world...It's because my treatment is in a lull before I start tamoxifen. I'm feeling better after surgery and so now my psyche seems to need a lot of room to adjust. Sadness. Anger. Bitterness.
Every image I see of a woman, before I even KNOW it, I'm in a fantasy about her breasts being cut off. I feel like asking all the women I see if they have breast cancer. Or if they know for sure they don't, almost as if I need to talk them all into HAVING breast cancer. For me, it feels like bc is EVERYWhERE. It's in the air, the water, the food, the stress. The only time I feel peace is when I write. I get upset when nobody notices that my breasts are gone. REALLy upset.
That wasn't what I wanted to say. I totally forgot what I wanted to say.
What did/do you do about your fears of recurrence?
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MT--I never said this, but thinking of your interview being taped while you were representing us in your bathing suit sends
COURAGE
and
CONVICTION
coursing through my body. It burns the hopelessness away, big time. Thank you for doing that and letting us know what it was like for you. What is it like now?
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Three words of encouragement: scar tissue massage. It worked wonders on the strain, and the stretch/tightness. I am 5 months since surgery and am doing well on ROM and the scar tissue is gone. All soft around the edges. Best money I spent.
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Pam, the tightness drove me right round the bend, and I thought it would NEVER let up. It does, but it is gradual. Some of it is inflammation/swelling, and I found that ibuprofen or other anti-inflammatories did help a bit. Check with your doc, obviously.
Racoon, I had some spots and fibroids in the good breast that all the docs swore were benign. Wrong! There was stage 0 all over the place. I know they say that is "only" pre-cancer, but when my surgeon went over the path report with me, I asked him if my decision had been a good one, and he nodded vigorously.
Fear of recurrence and/or mourning the boobs? It hits me sideways every so often. I had otherwise been doing really well, but this last week has been tough.
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I mourn feeling like a woman. My boobs were tiny but I am feeling fairly unattractive now.. and that doesn't indicate ANY negative from my hubby. He is THE BEST. Maybe the scientists will figure out viagra for girls.....
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Pam,
Echo those who said the tightness gets better. I did pt which helped.
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Today is the one year anniversary of my unilateral mastectomy. As I take stock, this is where I find myself: I feel whole, I feel feminine, I feel strong, I feel sexy. I do miss my breast sometimes. Particularly during intimacy. I have phantom yearning in my missing breast. I hope that is not tmi. I also find that sometimes my children plow into my chest for a hug and I feel tenderness and have to shift them to the other side. Otherwise, I am good.
If there was anything I could change, it would not be me. It would be the world around me...so I would never have to put on a prosthetic for work. I am glad that that is the only time I have to. I may some day have a prophylactic mx on the other side so I can just go flat...but I don't want to.
Thank you all for being here and listening.
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Did anyone get axillary cording? I think I am developing it?
Sorry, I am asking so many questions. I hope I get to be a normal person someday.
Happy, I see you are having a hard time with fears of reoccurrence. Maybe, I can help you by telling you that we are all in this together. I am really scared too. We have to learn to live as best we can with it, and enjoy each moment.
I met an older lady who helped me. I have to start following her advice. She said once you let fear in it takes over and then it is hard to eradicate. So what works, is when I start getting fearful, I will take a walk or do something I enjoy.
Hope you feel better soon. Pam0 -
Pam, I got some cording. It resolved quite quickly with PT. My onc claimed that some of it was collapsed veins, killed by chemo.
PT and stretching are really key to getting up and running again, in my opinion anyway. I am a year out and still do my stretches on most days.
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Pam...I also had cording. PT got rid of it. I think PT should be standard post-mx care.
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