I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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Hi, ladies.
I just don't get it. Reconstruction is fine if you want it and I'm glad insurance covers it but.... Why do I feel this pressure from so many people including the media to have reconstruction as if I'm an oddball or just being difficult. I promise you that I truly believe I look fine flat. Cute even. I'm tall, not particulary thin and I still look good, dang it! I always hated bras and was a bit lopsided from breast feeding 3 kids anyhow. So- 11 days out I am relieved to no longer have breast cancer and if one more friend or aquaitance tells me they KNOW I will reconsider , I may not be able to keep my promise to myself to be nice.0 -
So this woman with the reconstruction was also able to get rid of the scars? She looked normal in her clothes, but I bet she doesn't without. I've seen many pictures of reconstruction and read a lot, they don't ever look the same. And after talking to 5 or 6 mastectomy product fitters, I'm pretty sure that I'd never had reconstruction - they all told me if they had to do it they would not do reconstruction, they've seen too many bad ones. Kind of interesting. I think that Dawn is right! I'm much, much, much more apt to have the other one cut off than to reconstruct!
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On a different aspect of all of this, my local news channel ran a story the end of Pinktober that highlighted the fact that only 2% of funds raised go to metatastic breast cancer and that there are next to no studies being conducted, essentially the dirty little secret or pink elephant in the room. I do not want to take away from anyone who wants reconstruction, not at all my point. I would however like to see the medical community direct a whole lot more of its energy and direction into finding a cure and better treatments for all stages of this hideous disease and give up their teeth gnashing and desire to ram down reconstruction on women who do not even want it. I have seen it said here and I have a strong sense that it may be true that many have been so caught up in how they themselves would react that they have lost all ability to have an objective view of the other side.
Barbara
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"I have seen it said here and I have a strong sense that it may be true that many have been so caught up in how they themselves would react that they have lost all ability to have an objective view of the other side."
This seems to be true for so many issues, doesn't it? People lose their perspective and personalize everything. Perhaps when some buck the norm it causes others to become uncomfortable or rethink their decision. The IDEA that reconstruction makes you feel whole again and restores your sense of femininity is just that, an IDEA. It isn't true for everyone. When an idea becomes something you must conform to, then it makes me think the idea is being driven by those who stand to gain something from it. Hello, plastic surgeons!
Yes, I was on the fence and then opted for implant recon at the time of my BMX. It failed and caused a lot of emotional and physical pain in the process. I had the implants removed and chest muscles repositioned. It is not a pretty sight, but my deformed implants weren't either. The notion that I got dressed in the morning without a care couldn't be further from the truth. In contrast, I feel so much better without them, and I would rather look at my current chest vs the implants. Even though my recon failed, I do think others deserve the right to have reconstructed breasts if that's what they think will help them move on after BC. The beauty of having options is having the freedom to choose.
The lack of funding toward BC stage IV cancers is really screwed up. I cannot begin to imagine what it feels like to live with that diagnosis and know little funding is being spent trying to help find a cure for you. I lost a dear friend this year who lived with stage IV diagnosis for four years, and I am truly pissed off. She endured treatments I cannot imagine enduring, and I am sure she suffered terribly. She was only 30 when she died. How is it we can forget these people and rant on about survivorship and reconstruction? What does it say about our society that these people are pretty much invisible and we turn away like it is something too distasteful to witness or acknowledge? It just seems like reconstruction is a luxury when compared to finding a cure to cancer and saving our stage IV sisters. And if a stage IV gal wants reconstruction, I say move her to the front of the line!0 -
I am really of two minds here. On the one hand, I am really glad that recon is available and that for some women it makes a tremendous and positive difference. On the other, yea, I would rather money went for a cure for stage IV ladies or cancer research generally etc. I find the initiative by the plastic surgeons' association quite smarmy and teethering on the edge of being unethical for any number of reasons.
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LindaKR - I am having a prophylactic mx at the end of this month. Even though my remaining breast isn't large, I think that I will feel more 'normal' being the same on both sides (flat), but mostly because I think it will lessen my anxiety about recurrence. I opted against nipple sparing surgery, because the first breast was removed due to cancer in the nipple and milk ducts. Cancer in these areas often can't be detected in mammograms (I don't know statistics, just that 4 women that I know had the same experience as me). I too have regained full sensation in the skin on the side that was removed last year. Hopefully this will be true with the one soon to be removed. When my bs discussed reconstruction with me, it seemed he did so only because he was obligated to. I had an answer to counter each suggestion, so he was satisfied that I had done my homework and knew what I wanted. I came on the site tonight because I was actually starting to feel a lot of anxiety about the upcoming surgery, now that it's close enough that I have had to start telling people that I won't be available due to surgery. But as always, I am reassured by the women who have been there. My husband was against the idea of a prophylactic mx, but has gradually accepted the idea. He says he definately has no desire to feel fake breasts, so he is with me on the decsion not to reconstruct.
Happyracoon - It is not the "mutilating scars" that make me think "cancer" every morning. Strangely enough, it is the sight of the remaining breast that makes me think "cancer".
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Ugh, Starak, that 2% turns my stomach.
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Two percent? That is unbelievable, outrageous, and hurts my heart.
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Djustme - thanks for your input, my husband doesn't really want me to have the prophylactic either, but would be ok with it if that's what I chose. I agree it's not the scar that bothers me either, it's the other breast, kind of a reminder I guess, also the residual side effects, pain, neuropathy, LE, fatigue...... Scars I can live with. I don't have any feeling on the BC side still and it's been 2 1/2 years since my surgery, the numbness goes around my side and covers part of my back and underarm. That's really what holds me back from doing the prophylactic - I don't want to lose all feeling on that side too.
2% is horrible, it's metastatic disease that kills! And up to 20% of us that aren't stage IV can end up that way.
I feel that if the PS's are so hot on helping these women reconstruct they could actually donate a certain number/% of surgeries a year to those with limited finances.
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Here is the link to the story if you feel up to seeing it.
http://kfor.com/2012/10/31/breast-cancers-pink-elephant/
LindaKR, You know if these gungho PS would just take what the insurance would pay they could perhaps help even more who have insurance but could not possibly afford the co-pays. I cannot say it enough, I do not want to take away recon or discourage those who want it but I just as fervently do not want those who do not want it to feel shamed, pressured or belittled for deciding against it or for deciding on BMX over UMX. I am speaking here to the doctors who think they are somehow "Daddy" and discounting or flatly refusing to listen to the desires or their patients. So not at all about the decisions each of us make, we are entitled to those, but the decisions others try to make for us or worse yet try to ram down.
Barbara
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I haven't found anything to say whether or not Sharon Osbourne had recon after her dbl mast. But the last paragraph does reinforce my decision not to reconstruct, once again.
(NEWSER) – Sharon Osbourne has had a double mastectomy as a precaution against breast cancer, she reveals in today's issue of Hello! magazine. The 60-year-old had the procedure after learning she has a gene upping her risk of getting the disease. "I didn't want to live the rest of my life with that shadow hanging over me," says Osbourne, who survived colon cancer 10 years ago. "The odds are not in my favor."
"It's not 'pity me,' it's a decision I made that's got rid of this weight that I was carrying around," she adds. "For me, it wasn't a big decision, it was a no-brainer. … I didn't even think of my breasts in a nostalgic way, I just wanted to be able to live my life without that fear all the time." But the experience put her off plastic surgery for good, she notes, since she found out before the surgery that her breast implants had leaked into her stomach wall.
http://www.newser.com/story/157004/sharon-osbourne-i-had-a-double-mastectomy.html
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Pip, she also in some interview described her implants as feeling like a waterbed strapped to her chest. I had read that before the whole BC ordeal, but it stayed with me. From the way she talks about it, I get the feeling that she has not had recon, but, as you say, it really isn't clear.
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One of the articles about Sharon Osbourne also had a video of her having the interview feel her implants
Sometimes it seems that it's all about a free boob job at 60, could be I'm over sensitive 
I think everyone should have the option, however, it seems that, especially during Pinktober, that it was all about the boobs. While the media is saying that women that have a MX are deformed, scarred, less feminine, etc... people believe it. How about media saying the opposite, that breasts aren't what makes us feel good about ourselves - what do you think?
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Today my doctor referred me to a plastic surgeon who is hopefully interested in healing pain and discomfort from scarring rather than constructing faux breasts from my belly fat. She completely accepted that not wanting reconstruction does not then mean that I am content to live with a mashed up, scarred and painful chest. She also concurred that the pressure to reconstruct is getting out of hand. (And this in a country where insurance plays no role.) Thank you Momine and Outfield for giving me the kick up the arse I needed.
It's all about the cosmetic appearance with this particular flavour of cancer. I remember a scheme that was available here for BC patients when I went through chemo called Look Good Feel Better. It was basically lots of cosmetic freebies - the idea being that if you had some nice moisturiser and some lipstick you wouldn't mind puking your guts up for 6 months. Women going through rectal cancer or bowel cancer or any other damn cancer missed out - it was only for pretty pinkywinky BC women. Sickening isn't it? And can you imagine men with prostate cancer being given a bag of shaving gel and some cologne to cheer them up?
BTW I read that Sharon Osborne has had reconstruction. She also spoke out against cosmetic surgery and urged people not to embark on it - and she made a particular point of advising people to steer clear of implants.
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If more and more women are influenced to do reconstruction, I am thinking that perhaps it could have a benefit. The drug companies may feel the pinch in their balance sheet and embark on drug improvement programs that will encourage more women to keep their breasts and take the improved preventative drugs. Just a thought....
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Green frog - your comment about "only pinky winky BC women" getting cosmetic freebies made me laugh. For years my sister and I had a running inside joke as nurses about how BC patients are treated v/s other cancer patients. In one hospital were I worked the women woke up in Recovery with a little pink teddy bear. I always thought that if that were me I would throw it at someone. We always said that if we got BC we would have a BMX and call it a day. Well, I got BC and a BMX and gave myself a Maltese puppy that I called Mojo as a consolation prize.
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Well ,Ladies, it's done. I had my BMX on Friday and came home on Sunday. So far, so good. I've been wearing special shirts with pockets for the drains and sweat pants, but I have to say, I don't look all that bad flat. More importantly, it feels good. I am so glad that's pushed for both. I can sit up without back support and do not get any back strain. I can almost swear that its easier to breath. I will get my prosthesis so I have them on hand, but I can almost see myself going to work without them. Why should I hide what cancer has done to me? I didn't do anything wrong. If its more comfortable to be without the prosthesis, I will go that route. Only time will tell. But I can say that I do not feel any less a woman because I don't have breasts.
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Congratulations Frapp.
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Frapp - I made it two days at work with foobs and put them back in the drawer. That was two months ago. I don't see them ever being used again. I just decided it is what it is and comfort won over foobs. Glad to hear you are recovery well.
Topless - I totally agree about BC getting too much attention. Coming from a healthcare background it seems strange that one kind of cancer gets so much focus. I received a variety of pink gifts over the past year and have never really embraced the pink brand. It's obvious I am boobless - I don't need a shirt, cup, or key chain to call more attention to the fact. That said, I think all the pink stuff is bothering me less. Maybe that means I'm just more comfortable with the whole diagnosis, treatment, and the way I look.
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Dear Frapp and Topless,
Call me a crazy 53 year old granny- but I bought new lipsticks and silky tee shirts and I feel- dare I say - SEXY- flat. I have no idea why... but then why not? Heres to looking at the bright side-Dawn0 -
Frapp - I am so glad that you are recovering well. It's always scary going into any surgery. I found with my first mx that it was the fatigue that got me down. I was sooo lucky not to have to have chemo or radiation. I admire the bravery of all of you gals that had to go through that. Bravery is many things, and not giving up, and facing each day's struggles is bravery in my books. (I watched my brother go through both radiation and chemo)
I too am appalled that so little money goes to stage IV treatment, and to better techniques for detection - as I have already mentioned - often bc is not detectable on the standard mammogram until it reaches the later stages. A friend of mine's still didn't show at stage 3 - they only biopsied because of the lump.
It is important for celebrities to like Sharon Osbourne to speak out, because when famous people speak, it reaches more people than when non-famous people speak. It's also why they need to be sensitive and real about what they say.
I agree that the pink thing is a little annoying, but if it raises money for the cause I can tolerate it. I agree with Dawn7 that while new lipstick isn't going to help you feel better while you are throwing up, you should treat yourself to those little things that would have normally lifted your spirits, in the same manner as you would have pre-bc. For each of us those little things will be different. For me it would be a pedicure or massage.
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I hear you Dawn! I decided that I was going to do chemo (ONCOTYPE score is in the intermediate range and I don't feel like waiting for the one cancer soldier that may be lurking in the jungles to amass an army.) so I went out to get my haircut short so I could get used to the new look. Wore a pair of yoga pants and a fitted, zipped sweatshirt (no bra/cami/fill/prosthetics) and some lipstick. After my haircut, which took about 10 years off, I actually felt cute and sexy. Who'da thunk it? Last week I was in tears because I thought I looked 70 (I'm 56); today, I looked in the mirror and saw a 40-something me!
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Greenfrog, that sounds promising. I hope you find a doc who can help. The shaving gel to cheer up prostate cancer vicitms made me laugh.
If Sharon had recon, then why is she advocating against plastic surgery. I am confused here.
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Frapp, so glad to hear that surgery went well and recovery is coming along. I don't mind how I look flat either, and even like it. I developed late, so my foundational self-image does not have boobs anyway. Now I look like I remember myself looking way back when.
Topless, I hear you on the pink teddybear. Doggies are the best during and after treatment. They truly don't give a flying whether you have hair or boobs or eye brows, as long as you take them for a walk and tell them they are good doggies.
Dawn, I completely agree. There are unpleasant surprises in cancer treatment, but it is really important to be open to the pleasant surprises as well.
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Frapp, glad to hear you are recovering well. I hope you get the drains out pronto! I too got foobs to wear to work. Wore them once. I spent more time checking their alignment and bumping into things at chest level. Not to mention how uncomfortable and fake they made me feel.
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Dear Folks,
I just want to thank all of you for your posts and support. This
forum has helped me tremendously. I do know that I have been very, very fortunate as I have not needed to undergo chemo and radiation after the BMX- I not sure I would be as brave as many of you. That said, Having had cancer and the cold fear of cancer returning is what keeps me up some nights. My point is that BMX is not such a big deal compared to that for me personally. I respect that losing breasts is traumatic for most women and don't mean to trivialize this in any way. I am lucky I feel ok without mine, for those that don't- I have compassion and am glad there are options for them. Dawn0 -
Ladies,
Has anyone heard of Liberator medical? They are offering to handle my insurance and send bras and foobs for a rainy day. Are they ok to deal with? Thank you, Dawn0 -
LindaKR, this is in answer to your concerns about numbness after surgery. I had BMX, and the side with ALND has been problematic, just as you described with the numbness, and lots of pain issues. The non-BC side did not have node dissection, so there is no numbness behind the arm, etc. There IS a little numbness in some areas along the scar, but I had scars on that side from previous childhood surgery, so it never felt "normal." In fact, my BC breast had been the only part of my body that had no scars and normal sensation, so when I had to have MX, it was probably easier for me to go ahead with BMX, and the BS actually removed some of the worst of the scarring from the non-BC side! So I more or less match up, have minimal trouble with the non-BC side, and am making improvements in the BC/ALND side over the past week after a few visits with the PT and some myofascial release.
I met with a woman yesterday who had BMX without reconstruction - similar thinking to much of what has been posted here. We discussed the pros and cons of prostheses, and we came to the conclusion that it has more to do with bodily sensation and comfort than appearance for many of us.
Greenfrog, your comments about pretty pinkywinky BC and the Look good/Feel good campaign just cracked me up! Thanks! It is true that women (and men) with other types of cancer really do not get the kind of marketing that BC does. I was going to put a judgmental adjective in here, but the truth is, if some women really feel better by using some lipstick and makeup through treatment, that is fine also. I have never worn makeup and personally think it is just another way to part women from their money, which I think is particularly bad since women don't earn as much money as men do to begin with, but I also know how much fun my younger sister has with new colors for nail polish and other cosmetics, and I wouldn't take that away from her. Laugh at (and with) her, yes, take it away from her, no!
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Thanks for the info Linda-n3! I'm tired of being so lopsided and having to wear prosthesis, I think it would be great to be able to go free. I've always been large breasted and hated bras, so I think it will be kind of liberating, and definitely more comfortable. Even with lightweight prosthesis it causes pain and LE issues on BC side, and I have shoulder pain on my non-BC side too from bras straps. I've started just wearing mastectomy cami's and it helps a lot, but still.....
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Dawn--YAY! I'm glad you like how you look! That's what I see, too. It's real. You look good, I just KNOW it! Wish I could travel right on up there just to see your lovely new shape. Congratulations on your success!!
Greenfrog--I've been thinking about you! I REALLY hope this lead works out for you! You deserve the very, very, very best. Good for you for throwing your hat back into the ring.
Djustme--I can only imagine the difficulty of maintaining the health of a remaining breast after the first one was removed. Of course I would be thinking "cancer" too! At the time I made my decision, we had not yet confirmed cancer in the second breast, yet I was somehow sure that a "prophylactic" mx was the right choice for me (because I can't tolerate clinical breast exams, mammograms, ultrasounds, MRIs, or fricking biopsies. ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE TO BE MORE FREQUENT OR THOROUGH DUE TO PRIMARY DIAGNOSIS. Very unwomanly of me, I know. But just naming those procedures makes sweat drip from my armpits. Serious wimp here!) So I don't blame you one bit for anything you do or think about this. I will add that once the "healthy" breast was off and in the lab, they found cancer in it, too. So, I spared myself a lot of anguish. A lot of anguish. But I had to seriously convince my doctors that bmx was the right choice for me, because they were reiterating my other choices until I found my voice.
Momine--I laughed for 3 solid minutes, BELLY LAUGHTER, about your comment "pretty pinkywinky BC." (sorry about the obviously dark sense of humor here) But it's the opposite of funny that brought the emotion out. I wish I could personally HAND Tina's 30 yr. old dying stage IV woman the money my insurance company is saving by my flatitude. But she died already. There's more dying today! It's so SAD.
Thank you all for this thread today, for your excellent thoughts. I woke up, made and served breakfasts, made and packed lunches, kissed my kids and hubby goodbye, and as the usual silence dropped, the now so-familiar dread crept in. Today I have to rest, Rest, REST my body. And I'm mad about that because I want to go, go, go! But I pulled something in my chest yesterday while swimming and it hurts to move my arms and jaw. Needless to say, I am greatly comforted that you were here for me to fight off the lonely frustration. The good news is I hurt myself while exercising. Which means I'm very alive! Thank you for listening!
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