I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
Comments
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Because there has been discussion of breast forms even for perhaps only intimate moments, I wanted to throw a couple of random thoughts out there. Keep in mind with surgery you would in some way bear the scars of those decisions forever. With breast forms, you can change your mind a dozen times before getting out the door in the morning (and I am living proof of same), toss them in the back of the closet to collect dust, let only your nearest and dearest see you in them for the most intimate moments, or even never let anyone but YOU see you with them - and all without any scars, doctors, risks or anesthesias. Something to consider, if you are in a treatment year where you have met all your deductibles and the cost would be minimized, you might want to at least consider your options for owning same. I am especially mentioning this now because we are fast approaching the end of the year.
If you live in the US, another good resource is the American Cancer Society, who would likely be happy to give you a pair, but even without that is just a good place to go to try them on without pressure to purchase anything.
I will also throw out the following for those that might want to even "try on" their options before making decisions. Both for myself and I have heard too many times for others, it seems we are often pressured into bigger sizes than our comfort level. Resist the temptation to go with the flow and let YOUR heart and eye do the choosing. I made them bring in several sizes and then would put on two different sizes at a time side by side until I found the one that seemed the best to ME. Like so many before me, I found smaller than what was considered "correct" for my frame to be more in line with how I wanted to see myself. I also found that it is easier to go back and forth visually almost seamlessly when you go smaller. My rule of thumb is no smaller than an A cup. Reason being that an A cup is about as small as you can typically buy. Not saying there is no way around it but I would rather not have to work that hard to do so.
Again my only point for speaking to this was the thoughts of some that they might like to have a pair for certain times and also as reminder of insurance, deductibles and timing.
You know that no foobs are required to make any of us Fabulous in my world.
Barbara
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I just turned 60 when this all hit the fan. I had a BMX and only briefly thought of a "free boob job" as a consolation prize. That was before I got educated from the many wise women on this site and my docs shot down that idea because I am a risky candidate because of previous and ongoing autoimmune diseases ( ulcerative colitis, multiple sclerosis, interstitial cystitis). Even tho I gained some unwanted pounds during treatment I have always had a slender athletic body type. Going flat usually suits me fine; I even find it freeing not to have to wear a bra. But I got a pair of breast enhancer things ( used to augment breasts) at Target and slipped them into a Genie bra with pockets and then I have a smallish bust when I want to. The only time I miss my breasts is during sex, that part is the hardest psychologically and sensation- wise.
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Granellie, your breast cancer image is very true narrative! I knew the story in the picture before I even read about it. And the skill you have with fabric and thread, well, I am deeply moved. Thank you for sharing your work with us!
I am also thrilled that this thread is continuing to encourage choices, as it did for me. I am still really happy being a flattie! Well, happier than I would be with another surgery or a bra. It's just so much simpler this way. Thanks to you all!
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happyracoon, thank you. I appreciate your observation about this art quilt. I find it interesting how it took on, or revealed, new meaning to me over the years since it was created. Here's a close-up of the main part. It's hard to see the needle lace and painting on the sphere that's the focal point in the photo on my blog post.
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Phooey! Thought I had figured out how to get an image in the previous post. I saw it there when I hit the submit button. Is there a place that explains how to get pics in our posts?
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I'll try uploading the detail photo of "Beyond the Rainbow" from my Flickr account.
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Nope! That didn't work!
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Wondering if people will notice? Yet again I was at the pool. In my SWIM SUIT. Three people who know me but didn't know about my diagnosis or surgery were blown away when I shared what happened. They saw me in my suit. They did not even notice. To them, it just looks like weight loss. They say I look really good. Sincerely.
Even medium-big sized breasts can go away without people noticing. I'm completely sold. I like my shape now (as long as I have a shirt on) and I don't need a thing to poof me out in front.
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Granellie, I would LOVE someday to see this quilt in person. It truly belongs in a musuem dedicated solely to survivor art.
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Tina337 if you take up the shoulder a half inch on each shoulder you have a half inch off the front of each shoulder seam and a half inch off the back of each shoulder seam. In otherwords you have one inch off each shoulder in total so the neckline is actually 2 inches tighter. Just pinch the shoulder up in the manner you have described. If it seems to be the right amount to you, i.e. it puts the neckline and bustline where you want it, then that is how much your adjustment should be (doesn't really matter how many inches!). And don't worry if you get it wrong, its only thread, as long as the fabric isn't super delicate, you can take the stitches out again if you don't like it.
I'm now looking forward to making some other minor adjustments to my clothes. It is much, much easier than sewing from scratch. And a lot cheaper if you are altering things you already have in your closet. But it is something to keep in mind when shopping that you can buy something you love and make a small adjustment. That gives you more choice.
Starak, I think that is good advice to get pair of small prothesis whether you think you are going to wear them or not, especially if it is covered by an insurance plan. Then at least you will have the choice of wearing them - or not. You always write intelligent and practical suggestions. I enjoy reading them. My husband asked me why I post on this site. I told him because of the great advice and because nobody else really understands the emotions and why certain things matter to us. And there is always at least one post everyday that makes me laugh or makes me feel 'normal'.
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Granellie - your story and your quilt are beautiful!
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Starak (Barbara),
Thanks for writing so eloquently about the options for those of us who choose not to have reconstruction--to wear breast forms or not, to be a different size than before or not, to wear forms one day and the next day not--all without the risks of additional surgery and being stuck with that surgery's result.
Some women on this thread have written about wishing the world were more accepting of flatness. I actually think the world would probably be fine with my flatness. Most people in my experience are worried about how they look, not how I look. For me, the issue is how I feel about going out in public flat. Though I'm very slim, I simply don't like the way I look flat. I feel as if my front and my back are interchangeable. When I put on forms, I feel attractive and even at times sexy. I feel like myself. But, I'm glad I have the option of going flat and do it most of the time at home.
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I am just checking in with some of my favorite women in the world, and apologize for the absence. I have been catching up with posts, so many of you have expressed so much of what I am going through, I just haven't had the energy to even write. Had another recurrence, had wide excision on Oct. 8, BS thinks she got it all. Maybe that's all I need????? I am truly tired of dealing with all the doctor appointments, now have PT for a few weeks to tie up my free time.
I sewed in 4-H, used mostly Simplicity patterns (cheaper) and they never fit. I learned to match plaid at the seams, do zippers, buttonholes, etc. I hated it. I still do. But I was very good at it, got blue ribbons every year.
I like doing fine needle work, like cross-stitch and needlepoint. I have my grandmother's quilt frames and was planning on using them in the next couple of years. Now I have such bad chemo-induced peripheral neuropathy that I am not able to do anything that involves fine touch. Lesson learned: don't put off fun stuff!!!
With my fingers, I am pretty much limited to less than half an hour a day of keyboard (email, BCO boards, etc.), and am not playing the piano - something else I had done and loved, and had been away from for a few years, planning to pick up again. Another loss, more grief.
Intimacy after 3 years of rotator cuff pain and surgeries followed by a major move followed by BC treatment for 2 years is an elusive concept. I had a dream last night that we were intimate, woke with mixed feelings. Grief for lost time? Hope for future?
Clothes, clothes, clothes. Where do I begin? Am SICK of thinking about them! Went back to flannel shirts & jeans, my standard go-to wardrobe for most of my life. Comfortable soft shirt has less irritation to that miserable posterior arm neuropathy/hypersensitivity and chronic chest pain and sensitivity. DH did a beautiful photo shoot to see what I looked like in my dress-up clothes - I promise to post some as soon as he sends me the smaller files.
I am so proud of several of you who are moving forward with the swim suits. I have continued using my triathlon suits, which give really good coverage, and are made for slim folks, so they look OK on me for the most part. I have to laugh at the comments about the teenagers, men, etc. So many comments, right on target! I have been told I look great, but a few more pounds wouldn't hurt me (from my mother).
MT, thanks again for getting this started. Outfield, Barbara, Dustme, Erica, Happyraccoon, Riverrat, Pip, Tina, Dawn, Momine, and everyone else: I hope you are all safe from the storms, and that you have peace this week. Sending gentle hugs and much lovingkindness to all of you.0 -
Dear Starak,
Your point about no harm in having a prothesis esp. If insurance pays for it is well taken. That does allow for a choice if you wake up one day and want to wear it for whatever reason. I don't think I would but it's nice to have options. Thank you, Dawn0 -
I just had a BLM 3 weeks ago, and I have also opted out of reconstruction surgery. I am going to get the prothesis, but I really do not know what I am going to do as far as wearing/not wearing them. I feel that people are looking at me when I do have to go out, but I believe that's only in my mind. My daughter asked me last night if I really looked at other womens breast before I had the surgery...and you know I had to laugh because I really never gave it a thought. When do your kids get smarter than you? LOL They put everything in perspective for you when you least expect it.
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Thank you all
There are so many complexities to all of this. There is not only all the emotional, self-image, social, societal but also the straight physical and the interactions between the way our bodies have laid down scar tissues and the effects and interactiions with our nerves. I was never a pink girl and BC certainly did not make me a fan. Like many of you the whole Pinktober tends to get on my nerves sometimes for perhaps reasons I don't understand. So it was my intention as a kind of solidarity with my flat sisters out there to go totally flat at least for this month. But then the complexities set in. I had/have probably 3 major areas of ongoing discomfort due to nerve damage. One happy consequence of The Mutants removal was that one of those areas seemed to be released. In having to wear a silicone pad strapped to my chest for a couple months to minimize scarring, I discovered that the sensation of the right missing breast being squished in a mammo machine was nearly gone. It started coming back after I stopped wearing the silicone pad. Shortly after I bought and started wearing the small lightweight silicone breast forms. The stuck in a mammo machine again went away, though that sometimes traded for pain under the arm where the end of the incision had been tacked down to the chest wall and source of the softball sized hematoma, the third ongoing nerve damage area. But all in all my body liked and found comfort in the feedback of the forms to the chest. I know I am not alone in this but cannot even guess if it is rare or common. However I also do not want to hold it out as some miracle cure because for some the forms are nothing short of medieval torture devices. My reaction can change from day to day.
In any case yesterday with no forms, the stuck in the mammo machine nearly put me right over the edge, not to mention that I really do start to look like a freak show when I am constantly grabbing at my chest to try and stop the sensations. Today I am wearing my smallest silicone forms, little twinge of nerve under arm but Thank You God, no stuck in the mammo machine. If the twinge under the arm becomes unbearable, I could easily rip them off half way through the day. Comfort nearly always wins out for me.
So many complexities.
Melly, where are things with the Breast Pocket Project. Did we all send the 1000?
Barbara
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I was away for awhile so have not caught up on all the posting.
Starak, I don't understand the "stuck in a mammo machine" comment.
Today, I went to a preop meeting (BMX) with my pivotal nurse and she showed me a nice bra with beeded pads. They looked really attractive and did not feel like a dead toad in my hand like the sillicone one did. During our meeting she mentioned something that caught my negative attention. She said these prosthesis have a habit of moving up and down when you do sports etc. Well, I play golf and other sport, so do I understand that I will be yanking my bra down after every movement? She told me the bras have nothing to hang onto. So what do you gals do? I recall mention of the cami, is that better for sports?
I keep vascillating between going flat and doing recon.
If you want a chuckle: When I was having coffee downtown this morning prior to my meeting I was people watching as I always do (I am an artist so I notice things and mentally take note of interesting people for future ideas). Along comes a woman (wearing a tight sweater) to meet up with a group of presumably co-workers, mostly men but there was another woman among them who was slim and small breasted. The newly arrived woman sat down, thrust out the breasts while she tied back her long hair into a pony tail then she stretched her back before settling down but kept the breasts outwardly thrust. Of course the men had eyes only for the boobies. This interesting group of people were at the next table so I couldn't help taking in all the details. So I said to myself, oh gosh, does that mean today I want to do recon?
Anyway, I will take one step at a time since the ps wants me to do the recon in two stages. I will have plenty of time to get used to be flat, but I do want to solve the problem of the bra moving up and down when I play golf. I recall one gal (maybe granellie) telling me that her mom played golf and she had no problem, but she did have a single mastectomy so therefore her bra would have had something to hang onto, unless I misunderstood and it was a cami?
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This picture is from our son's wedding on the 27th. I was so comfortable. No 'girls' needed in this dress.
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Barbara, I can so relate to your physical sensations! Luckily, Gabapentin made a huge difference for me. After 6 weeks or so, I stopped taking it to see what would happen, and it all came back like ZAPPO. For now, I'm going to keep taking it.
That specific pressure sometimes relieves your pain makes a lot of sense to me. (And yes...I DO massage/grab my bare chest every few hours, even if just for a few seconds through my shirt. It heals the psyche as well as the tissue, I think.) But I sure hated all that zinging and squeezing stuff.
Happy Freakin Halloween
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Oh PIP! You look gorgeous! And what a handsome beau you have. Thanks for sharing. I love the spirit in this photo.
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Painterly, I was told my bra would ride up. He he he, I secretly snickered. You will never catch me in a bra again after this surgery, I thought.
Turns out, for walking the first month after surgery, I did feel more comfortable in a bra because of the dog ears. I was elated to find that my old (pre-diagnosis) sports bras worked perfectly. they did NOT ride up as predicted.
After going through the spiel with a mastectomy junk specialist (bra lady) I bought the camisols. Wore them for all of half an hour until I was so RELIEVED to give them away forever. When i explained I wanted to go flat after surgery, I was told, "You will have problems with your posture unless you replace the weight you'll lose up front." Thankfully, I saw through this big fat lie. It's pure salesmanship! My posture is better than ever. And my old sports bras are perfect. Mind you, I put nothing in them.
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Starak,
Mutants??! Quit! I'm only six days out post BMX and it hurts to laugh that much. :0) Dawn0 -
Pip, that dress/bolero combo is genius. It really works.
Painterly, because I tend to get lymph fluid clogged in my torso if I wear a bra, I have tacked the front end of a bra onto a well-fiting tank, and I stick the tiny, light foobs in that. It is far more comfortable than wearing a bra (no band all the way around) and so far I have not had any problem with the foobs moving around.
Racoon, they might have a point about the posture stuff if you were really huge before. Then again, our lovely Barbara has wonderful posture in spite of going flat for quite a while, and I think her boobs belonged in the Guiness record book (no offense, I hope, Barbara). Mine, on the other hand, weighed all of a pound a piece. In terms of "front load", posture etc, I really don't notice that they are gone. Except when I run
I can run now!0 -
Painterly: "Stuck in a mammo machine" Two ways I would describe it. When you go for a mammo and they lower the machine to do the squish - well imagine the tech got a phone call and just left without ever lifting the machine and leaves your breast squished for the rest of the day. Or the big long bag clips only if they were much much more powerful and clamped horizontally across your breast. This is all phantom because mine is gone (only happens on my right side) and yet the sensation remains. I won't say it is purely painful, more like the scratching on a blackboard that can seem to rip your insides. I "love" doctors who call it pressure as if it was something so innocuous. They snicker the same way about the steel band around the chest that so many of us have in the early months. Wish I could remember the old thing... something like: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the doctors who told me it was all in my head.
Barbara
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Momine:
re: I have tacked the front end of a bra onto a well-fiting tank, and I stick the tiny, light foobs in that.
What a good idea! On the outside of the tank, I presume? And then, I further presume, you cut out the area for the cup shape?
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Starak,
Gosh, that must be so uncomfortable for you.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvX8cUaBFqo
Love this. Go Barbara!
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Momine:
I now realise what you mean....just saw it my minds eye after thinking it through. What a great idea. I will do this for sure as I am convinced it will solve my see through golf shirt dilemma.
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Starak,
Melly hasn't been on the boards for a little while. If I'm not mistaken, she lives in NYC, maybe lower Manhattan, where there's no power, so no Internet. My son and his girlfriend live there and finally gave up and are headed out of the city until power is restored. To Melly (if she's without power) and any other women who have had problems during and after the storm, I hope things get back to normal quickly and everyone gets back in touch.
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Momine, I lost the Guinness crown to someone else on BCO who said hers were 15 lbs. Mine were only 10. LOL However my PS office did say I held the office record for the largest pre-surgery they had ever run across.
Barbara
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