I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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Morning All - Saw these links on another thread. First is to a pretty balanced article between reconstruction or not.
http://kroger.staywellsolutionsonline.com/RelatedItems/34,21020-2
The other article shows a picture of Linda Ellerbee, a public figure with no recon, who was the keynote speaker of the day. Apparently she does or has worn breast forms but in the photo is not. Love, Love, Love it!!!!!
http://www.gallery8010.com/news/index.php?id=5
A very good start to the day.
Outfield, I am so happy that you too found a compassionate PS who would do a tiny little curative surgery. I fell all over myself telling mine how much my little surgery meant to my happiness and life. I wish there were more who truly understand how important these little surgeriers can be to us, even more so to those trying to relieve pain.
Barbara
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Love the picture of Linda Ellerbee without forms! I think it looks so normal. One is first drawn to her face and the activity occurring when looking at the photo.
While the Kroger article is definitely more balanced than most, I think it is rather dated. A quick glance did not uncover when it was written, but the info presented on recon combined with the dates the women had their surgeries makes me think it was quite a while ago. First off, TRAM is no longer considered the "ideal" form of microsurgery. DIEP is. Most people no longer sign up for a full TRAM because it weakens the abdominal area and can be a risk for hernias. Most reconstructive surgery at this point that requires use of the ab muscle is done either when a PS is not competent to do a true DIEP, or tries to do a true DIEP and is not skilled enough to pull it off (during surgery has to resort to using a small piece of the ab muscle to avoid losing flap). Regarding the comment in the article about radiation being a risk for successful TRAM surgery - This may be true, but it is also true for implant surgery, which they fail to mention. I don't mean to be nitpicky, but some women do stop by here that are considering recon, and it would be helpful if they knew all their options and the current "ideal" standard. I know the recon forum has more info, but old info never does anyone any good.
I was glad to see the choice to not reconstruct discussed, as well as all the appropriate reasons most of the women here have mentioned. However, I can't help but wonder if this article were more current if it would have been that balanced!0 -
I hope everyone is well.
I have mentioned her before on this thread but she's worth mentioning again. Koo Stark (former actress and girlfriend of Prince Andrew) had BMX and has never worn prostheses. This article - featuring a photo of an entirely flat Koo - is all about unpaid parking fines and nothing to do with her conspicuously absent breasts. Her confidence with her flatness was inspirational to me when I opted to have the other breast removed.
And this is what she has had to say on the issue:
"And I certainly don't allow my appearance to depress me. I've never been overly concerned with the impact my mastectomies would have on my body shape. I'm more concerned with the truth and health. I've never been a model, although people assume that, so my body has never really affected my career. Plus, I've never had enormous bosoms, so that's never been part of my persona.
Throughout the 25 years that I have had a public image, I've gone through some changes, but I've never had any surgery other than my mastectomies. I've learned to wear things that suit now, nothing with darts or anything decollete, and I don't wear clothes that announce the bosom. But that doesn't mean I can't dress in a feminine way.
Wearing prostheses doesn't appeal to me either. I think that would make it psychologically harder in a way. I have to be honest about my shape. I've asked a few questions about reconstructive surgery, but I'm not considering it at the moment. You have to remain free of the disease for a particular period of time before you can be considered cancer-free, so I'll get through that first."
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Ladies,
Thank you for your personal stories regarding the individual differences in appearance of scars, flatness, etc after masectomy. I see now one should not expect a cookie cutter appearance. Plus looking at the links of women in the media " going flat" is inspiring. Way to go!0 -
Thank you so much for the information about Linda Ellerby and Koo Stark, I needed this today.
I well remember both women and never realized they are choosing to live breast free.
I feel stronger....
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I am thankful to have found this group ... that information is shared. It all makes me feel a whole lot less alone in this journey. Thank you all of you have posted links of photos and articles.
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It was Shingles! I am taking an antiviral and am feeling better. Man, do I hate being sick and in bed now!
I am keeping a pinterest folder with both Breast Pockets and images of women in thier Flat Glory, http://pinterest.com/mellytesta/breast-pockets/
So I love seeing links in this forum! Thank you. I love the Koo is wearing a sheer blouse and that you can see her scars.
My scars are beautiful. They are pretty flat, not straight, the outter edge of each has a slight pucker. The back edge of both scars have what I lovingly call 'hamster ears', slight points that look pointy from a specific angle. You need to shake your head to blink 3 times to see them. The inner end of the scars, where my cleavage once was has a kiss shape on the right breast (this was the cancer side). My left breast, because the plastic surgeon worked that one, has more breast bed than the right. So I am slightly assymetrical. But, I mean, I am nit-picking for your benefit. As far as it goes, I think my chest looks awesome, mine are the results I would want if I were making this decision again.
I feel better on many accounts. Thanks to you gals for the help.
I am going to go to a prothesis fitter soon, I have a script, I am looking for a store. I am not sure this is right for me, so I have decided, I will go alone, I will get fitted, try bras and camis and different sizes of forms and then I will leave and emotionally evaluate myself before continuing with a purchase (if I do).
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Thank you to Koo and Linda Ellerbee!!! There must be more out there.
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Melly - Good for you and hope the shingles resolve quickly.
As to the fitter, here is my Pep talk. Go in with confidence and do not let them intimidate or run over you. I like to wear something really fitted like a snug tshirt so that it gives me a good sense of how it looks and also makes it easier to evaluate if you put a different size on each side. I also like to choose something that is going to look equally good with and without forms, again so you can better assess the differences and also what life would look like if you had on forms and decided to rip them off half way through the day. I would not stop until you try on a size that you clearly say to yourself that it is too big and one that is clearly too small, then narrow from there. If you are debating, I found it best to go up. We have been flat for a long time and so anything will seem bigger than it really is in the beginning simply because it is different. On the other hand, I have found it really common that fitters are inclined to choose a size bigger than we are comfortable with. If you have any idea of going back and forth from flat to forms, the look is far more seamless and under the radar when you lean to smaller. I also love that you will go home and think it over. If you go back, try them on again with fresh eyes and perhaps a size up and down for comparison before making a final decision. My two cents worth, I personally would never choose standard weight silicone. I only choose lightweight or ultra-light. Also, very very important, you have to tune out all the nonsense about needing to wear weight to avoid dropped shoulders, etc. Just TUNE IT OUT!!!!!!
Oh yes, and I almost forgot, it IS okay to just say "No"...
Barbara
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On other word on fitters: Be SURE to check with your insurance to be sure the fitter is one of their providers. I went to the little Pretty in Pink boutique next to the breast center, they fit me, filled out insurance forms, did a custom sleeve (my arm is too skinny for any of the pre-made), and then let me walk out of the store with everything, then billed me for over $800 for the 2 boobs and a sleeve because the insurance company considered them "out of network" providers, so I had to pay the entire amount. I was (and still am) too damned tired to fight... still have not filed a formal complaint, but still may do so. Main point is: be sure that the "durable medical goods" provider is "in network" or you may be in for a huge bill.
Barbara's advice is excellent! I wish she had given it to me a year ago!
So I have the prostheses, don't wear them much, but have them if I want them. Nice to have choices!0 -
MT1,
I am so glad you received treatment and hope you are doing well. The photo in your blog of the young woman and her husband was instrumental in my decision not to have reconstruction. I preordered the book on amazon that featured it. There is also another photo on Flicker of a woman/mother at the beach going topless after BMX with no reconstruction that I think is lovely. I have ordered a tiny home made microbead breast form from Mary Lacaze to try at home in case I feel the need for a special occasion, etc. I am interested to hear about your experience at the fitters. I wore lightwight barely there bras before surgery- so I am concerned that type is not offered at a masectomy shop- but maybe there are other options? Anyway, good luck and take care.0 -
Dear Linda-n3
That is excellent advice re insurance. My insurance has a bunch of online medical suppliers listed- I tried one and felt really pressured by the rep. :0( MT1's insurance should give her a printout of in network providers. The prices for forms are ridiculous! Somebody is making quite a profit.0 -
I agree with ALL of you about buying forms . . . my insurance paid about 1/3 . . so for me they were still expensive, in my opinion, for a less than a $5 blob of plastic of some type . . . The ONLY provider/store in 100 mile circumference around here does well because it is the ONLY shop . . . I believe they charge TOP DOLLAR and are still struggling . . . I sympathize with what the struggling business end of these products . . but, for me it is troubling/aggravating.
I would like to TOUCH/FEEL/TRY ON items before purchasing them at these outrageous prices. This ONLY shop is 30 minutes drive from me, is open by appointment from 9 to 5 on week days only . . . fairly inconvenient for a working gal!!!
Also, I found the bras to be VERY uncomfortable and ugly. I was small, I chose small foobs. They seem smaller now, 6 months later. I think they are deteriorating. I chose AMOENA camisoles and t-shirts. I like them, but they are NOT covered by insurance (they are not bras) and are extravagantly expensive, in my opinion. And, after wearing them for ~ 6 months now, and washing them, they are not holding up well with age. The elastic rolls now . . . I am also not finding them very comfortable.
More and more I am hoping to get brave enough to GO FLAT at work, wearing comfortable clothing.
This forum is helping me be brave(er). . . but I am not there yet.
CAUTION - do NOT go shopping right after surgery . . I did that, I did NOT research enough, I would definitely buy lightweight foobs now - but I haven't gone back to the one store available. . . maybe soon . . .
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For those in the US and near a big city with an American Cancer Society office, call them and see if they have a fitter. They will often just give you your first set. I have now more than once, gone in and been very upfront that I did not want them to give me anything but hoped they would please allow me to see, touch, feel, and maybe try on so that I could order online with confidence. My local office has been wonderfully accomodating for that purpose. When ordering online, be sure you are clear about their return policy. A good point was made above about being sure the local shop is a preferred provider and also be sure that any form or bra you choose is covered/approved by your insurance. Those that are in a year when all deductibles have been met and maximum out of pocket has been met for the year should be able to get them really cheap. If you are not in that circumstance, there is a whole lot to be said for taking your time, doing a lot of research, and maybe opting for cheaper alternatives, if you even want to be bothered. Besides your local ACS office, do read reviews on Breastfree.org which also has links to some of the major online retailers. My only personal experience is with MetroMedicalOnline.com and TLCDirect.org which I believe is an arm of the American Cancer Society. I mostly wear small silicone (ABC) or foam forms in pocketed Genie bras or with Amoena style 2167 (Marlena) or Classique 769. Recently I have been going flat more often than not. BTW, there are separate threads on the subject so that this one is not hijacked.
Barbara
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Hey gang,
Ok, I got a story about the "pushing to get reconstruction" line.
Went and saw a doctor for arm pain. Conversation turned to my breast cancer. He said, "You know, a lot of women choose to get reconstructed."
I said, " I hear a lot of women get pushed into reconstruction and are not being told that flat is an option. I'm perfectly happy with my nice, flat ribcage."
Then I had to go into the no more surgery, more risk of truncal LE, carving up the good parts of your body for tissue, ect. That shut him down.
I'm really glad for this thread because I was ready for him!
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You know, I'm kind of weird here, but I've gotten to like the look. I like it best when I'm in shape so my stomach doesn't stick out so much. but I like being flat. Love the little undershirts I get to wear as shirts now, that I would never have dared to do before. And I dress up pretty good when I need to.
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Good for you Nibbana and Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!! Barbara
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Sorry to hear you have shingles Mel - very uncomfortable. Get well soon.
Well done Nibbana!
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Way to go Nibanna!
Alexandria, I love my body and going flat. My husband is having a hard time of it, but I bet he will come around and I am checking out breast forms on his behalf, not mine. I may never purchase them, I don't know right now. But I do want to have the experience of going and seeing what it is about, trying them on and seeing what it brings up for me. I think that if I don't, I won't know, or have a leg to stand on, as they say. I figure if I go alone, I will be able to process free of the emotional entanglement of my relationship.
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MT: looking makes sense. Not meant as a criticism - and I guess I'm lucky. My husband's never minded one way or the other - still has way more sex drive than me.
Feel better from the shingles. Not a fun thing to have.
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I saw this and thought I would share. It speaks to the many less endowed stars who did not feel the need to go under the knife, and celebrates them for the stunningly beautiful women they are without the need for enhancement. Doesn't speak to us directly but it is pretty rare to see this at all and especially for those in the spotlight.
Barbara
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Joan Jett is playing here soon and I just saw a promo photo. Somehow she's had a good long career with a chest that could pass in clothes for mine!
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Fern - my insurance covers the camisole, the store has to bill it with the correct code though, so maybe they didn't know that. Also, my insurance only covers 2 bras/camisoles a year. Also, I went to a place with really cute bras for small breasted women, and they had pretty ones for larger breasts too. Also, two of the three places I've been have a lot of different prosthesis's to try on in the store - granted the closest is 90 miles, my favorite is 150 miles, and the best place to get my custom compression garments is 200 miles from my home. I just make my trips a mini-vacation, and a time to visit friends and family.
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Well, I have decided not to reconstruct but I am definitely going for a prosthesis one of these days. I am shocked when i see myself and I want to minimize that shock for others who see me. I like symmetry; I think God likes symmetry. I intend to recreate symmetry, even illusory.
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Exactly what Marie said...
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I'm symmetrical. Just flat. Does wonders for the golf swing.
Again, I have no problem with women doing whatever makes them feel good about themselves and their bodies, including prosthesis or recon. I just hate to see women pressured into either. I also hope that someday more women will feel comfortable going flat.
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Maybe it's because I am symmetrical and thin but so far nobody has seemed shocked, nobody even seems to notice and I'm over six years out. I am glad that we all have options and like Alexandria58 I just want women to be comfortable in their own skin, what feels right to that individual and not to feel pressured into anything.
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MT1, I hope your fitting process goes well. Sometimes fitters have limited stocks, both of bras and breast forms, so it can be helpful to check out online sites like MetroMedical (that Starak mentioned) beforehand to see the range of things available. I've reviewed some of the most popular ones on BreastFree.org (i.e. bras and breast forms that I and many other women find comfortable and attractive).
Some of the mastectomy bras I like best are made by Anita (they aren't as structured as others and are lower under the arms), yet these are rarely available in brick and mortar shops that sell mastectomy products. Also bear in mind that pockets can be sewn into regular bras.
I realize that you're very ambivalent about this step. I hope it goes well. The first time I tried on forms, I was amazed by how natural they looked and by the realization that I could look just as I always had if I chose to.
Also, really sorry to hear about the shingles. Glad you got on the antiviral quickly. One thought--you might want to wait until the nerve pain goes away completely before trying on forms. Otherwise, it will be hard for you to evaluate how they will feel once you're all better.
Barbara
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MT, Just a suggestion, the TLC's microbead foobs are easier to wear, you can put them in a TLC Cami (sale ending today)...and I bought mine a size larger (the cami) because I can't stand tight on my incision/ lymphedema areas.
They add a little "something" to my chest, like "hint of a breast" (I wear 3's or 4's) and are not as comfortable as being flat, but are a good compromise.
Silicone has never felt like a good compromise to me, just too bulky, heavy, sweaty...
Linda, what is the code for getting a cami paid for? Who would I ask about that?
i Notice a more positive response from my husband when I wear the foobs, a few days a week, and if it makes him smile more, sure, why not? After all he listens to me when i ask him to stop wearing a stained shirt or something I find unattractive...
I like foobs, I love flat...so as long as I am feeling physically OK, I choose each day.
I am exhausted trying to find clothing that looks great flat, I am so weary of it all. So now I buy more of what I love...and then choose flat of foobs for it. I Love-love being to take the foobs off to sleep, I love the choices.
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I wonder if they will ever invent a prosthetic breast that actually feels like a lovely warm human breast instead of a huge clammy sweaty lump of solidified goo.
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