I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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In my world of docs male or female from 40M before to FLAT now, the routine is always nurse first, handed gown, nurse leaves, and then doc comes in. About the only time someone else is in the room with the doc is if they have a doc or PA in training. I regularly have ekgs by male techs always with a gown and only exposing what is necessary to place or remove the electrodes etc. No difference between before and after BMX except that before I was so large it was extremely difficult to place the equipment where it was needed for a view, particularly with ultrasound. Now with flat it is a piece of cake. Personally I do appreciate the gown no matter the sex of the nurse, tech or doc though I manage fine if it is necessary to remove it.
Don't know why I failed to mention it before BUT The Scar Project is now on exhibit in Birmingham, AL. Many of the SCAR girls are there today. Further information is on the website.
http://www.thescarproject.org/exhibition/
I so wish I could be there. It is my understanding that we may have a tribe member or two among the SCAR girls and the staff of The Scar Project.
Lately I am coming to realize that for the first time I am really living flat and free. Yes, I have been flat for the greater portion of this over 2½ yr journey but always buried underneath some kind of under clothes. For the first 1½ yr by Ace bandages or flat sports bras. Then it was breast forms with attendant bras. It is only the last few months that I simply go flat under outer clothing. That I have given up the compulsion to have an extra layer of protection to the chest though I am now hypercritical of the texture of fabric against my skin. We each have things that give us comfort or don't. I will wear a cami as outer clothing or pajama top but it has never felt right to me as a layer under outer clothing.
The recent presumably seroma infection I think has affected my mind. A reason to wear breast forms on a given day was to provide feedback to the chest when the nerve damage sensations were acting up. The last time I put them on for that purpose was in the privacy of a lazy afternoon at home. I was immediately taken aback at how constricted I felt, the unpleasant sensation under my arms, the triggering of flashbacks to the tight band feeling. Ended up ripping them off after just a short time. In spite of my attempts at logic, I am sure this is just a mental thing, but since the infection, I have become, dare I say, "afraid" of restricting my chest especially as the inexplicable infection had popped up out of nowhere, literally overnight, on the ca side on the side where nodes had been removed. So end of the day, am flat all the time. BTW totally healed and back to normal.
Along the lines of what gives us comfort or not. I have NEVER NEVER NEVER been a scarf girl. Guess it makes sense having been so large before that the last thing I needed was more bulk on my chest. Now? Well I am finding perception is a funny thing. I had decade upon decade upon decade of gigantic girls - you would think I would be forever and ever used to alot of projection off of my chest. Yes you would think and yet after a year of flat, the first time I put on A or small B breast forms, they "felt" ENORMOUS as if they would enter a room minutes before I did. Scarves make me feel like that - ENORMOUS as if I just stepped into the body of a sumo wrestler. As I say perception is a funny thing, guess that is why each of us has to find our own path to this new reality, embracing some new ways of doing things and rejecting others. Though that said, sometimes we, or at least I, just need to give it time for perception to catch up to reality.
Barbara
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No extras in the room when I've had breast/chest exams either, unless an intern is following them or they need a nurse to assist with something. They always had a nurse come in if a male was doing a pap smear, but that was it, not for the breast exam.
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I have become a scarf girl, not because I'm trying to camouflage but because I'm cold all the time on anastrasole.
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Wren44, I am right with you with the always cold on the anastrozole, interlaced with the hot flashes though much better as time goes on. Barbara
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I've also never been a scarve gal. Don't like anything around my neck. I read about using them to camoflage but decided I wasn't going to try to conceal. Then, I got a Xmas present from my boss this year. Yep, a scarf. It was hard not to make a joke about it, "you trying to tell me something?" She gave everyone a scarf BTW. So now I guess I have to wear it at least once, to a work function of somekind.
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Barbara
Thanks for your earlier post. My bmx surgery was scheduled yesterday for 1/23. I am a 38g and I appreciate how you described the loss and acceptance of your changes.
At first I wanted immediate reconstruction. Then I had a biopsy in the non cancerous breast. Thankfully that was negative but got me thinking. Why did I want immediate reconstruction? Was it so I would look "normal" again? Who was it for me or them. Well, I thought long and hard and told the dr that I do not want immediate reconstruction. I am not even sure if I want reconstruction at all.
I have looked at post mastectomy pictures to prepare myself. I know it won't be the same but I needed to look.
I am now preferring the look of flat even scars rather than when they leave some skin for delayed reconstruction. I don't know what to ask my dr to do....make them look the best as possible flat or leave some skin in case I decide to do reconstruction later. I am leaning toward no extra skin. And then tattooing to cover the scars.
What are all of your pros and cons for the options of no reconstruction and delayed reconstruction.0 -
Kassylou,
There are some great posts back through this thread because others have asked your question. Because of the nature of the thread, we (me included) are going to be biased toward flatness.
I personally had to have a mastectomy for tumor-specific reasons, so there was no choice of lumpectomy. I said at the time I didn't want to talk about reconstruction, but when I was able to think clearly about it I was quite sure I didn't want it. My own reasons for not wanting reconstruction (of any type) were:
1) Less surgery. I've been through enough. Anything from here on out is for functionality.
2) Very uncomplicated surface to examine
3) I like not having those floppy things on my chest
4) NOTHING any surgeon could do would give me sensate nipples again. That's what I miss.
5) I like my appearance flat. I don't think it looks odd, and nobody ever comments or stares.
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Kasseylou ~ I can write my reasons, but I just read Outfields post and realized her #1-5 are identical to mine. When I was diagnosed and met with my BS, she came in, introduced herself and told me she would tell me about BC. I said that was fine, but I would tell her what we were going to do: BMX with no reconstruction. I had done my research and knew this was the route I wanted to go. Although my surgery was only in Oct, I feel comfortable with my choices and confident in and out of my clothes.
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Immediate reconstruction was not an option for me, neither was a skin sparing MX. I left the recon option open in my mind, but was never really sold on it, reconstruction for me would be a long, involved process, and I can get the lump under my clothes with a prosthesis if I want..... Right now I'm very lop-sided (DD) without my prosthesis, I'm leaning toward a PMX this spring when my new insurance kicks in (less co-pays). I like the idea of going flat, but will probably get prosthesis' for those clothes that need a little more in them. And I agree with Outfields 100%.
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Kasseylou, I think most of us here have decided to not have reconstruction, so it might be valid if you wanted recon, to ask your questions on a recon board. I personally cannot stand the thought of so much more surgery, more pain and such. Skin sparing and nipple sparing were not possible for me, so it all seemed pointless. I choose to go flat 90% of the time.
I didn't even know the surgery would be different, I suppose it depends on where the cancer is also...
Wishing you the very best!
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I must be the only flattie in Las Vegas this week! Haven't seen anyone that looks like me!
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I'm glad I am not alone. Had BLM three and a half years ago without reconstruction. The problem I have is as time goes by my chest is caving in. Does any one else have this problem and the tightness is killing me.
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Rosana, do you exercise? I started going to the gym after finishing treatment. I lift tiny, little weights, but do a good rotation for the upper body. Even with those itty-bitty weights, I have added definition and muscle in the last 6 months. It is not a lot, but enough to give me better posture and fille out my chest area a bit.
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Agree with exercise. it seems to help tremedously.
Couple other things on no reconstruction: it's not just avoiding surgery, it's avoiding the risks and complications of surgery, the extended healing time. Then there's the discomfort - which seems to be substantial for any number of women. In short: recon poses dangers, risks, and discomfort.
I also have a political point of view. While i don't want to condemn any woman who feels she needs recon to feel like a woman again, I think the more of us who say stop, the more of us who say you can be a beautiful woman without breasts, the more women will think of no recon as a viable choice, the more women will choose the safer and more comfortable path.
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A, agreed, although that whole area of the recon debate can get a bit tricky. Like you, I do not want to disparage any other woman's way of dealing with this. If recon makes someone feel better, that is good enough for me.
My reticence to do recon also has to do, in addition with all that has been listed, with the high rate of failure, and what, to me, are poor estethic results. Every time I see a recon that looks good to me it was in connection with a skin-sparing and nipple-sparing prophy or really early stage BMX. The recons done for women with my DX would not make me happy. Again if they make others happy, great! Personally, I prefer an honest scar.
Which leads me back to your point. I just saw a study this morning, which concluded that if patients (not BC specifically) feel good, they tend to heal better and live longer. [duh!] There are also studies that women who get recon have a slight survival advantage. So, I was thinking that it probably isn't the recon itself, but that they feel better with the recon. I am babbling at this point, but I am trying to make the point that if being flat were more accepted and "normal," women would be more likely to feel good going flat and thus reap the psychological survival benefits as well.
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Sounds good to me.
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Momine - I agree completely about the pictures not selling me on recon - my chest looks better the way it is then those pictures. And remember they only post the best pictures! I've had three mastectomy fitters say that if they were to have BC they would never have recon, not after what they see in any given week.
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Djustme, Thank you for telling me someone you know saw me on TV, it is a bit embarrassing on some levels to put myself out there like this, but on others and for reasons just as you describe, I think it is very important.
Starak-I am glad you are healed and feeling better.
I don't know about the 'feedback' sensation that you speak of, because I have not worn breast forms, but I do wonder about it. One of my artistic projects is what I am calling a 'Gather your Sew-plies' purse. It is a fist sized purse that has pockets to hold embroidery scissors, thimble, needle, pins and threads at the ready. Because I like to sew wherever I go, and I sometimes walk or use the subway to get there, this purse first drapes over the head and then clips around the waist to secure it in place and help it stay tidy. When I wear these purses, I often feel satisfaction in how it feels and how heavy it is (I would say it might weigh a few ounces). And because you gals have spoken about the feedback phenomena, I wonder if this is what I experience. Artistically speaking, I think this is of interest.
As for me, I am extremely sensitive to feeling cloth on my scars and I notice that I often feel bothered and aggrievated if seams touch me or cloth is perceived as scratchy.
I find I do like the feeling of straps (think bra straps) when I am dressed. Having worn a bra for I guess 35 years or so, I feel 'dressed' when I feel straps, so I have been experimenting with camisoles, talk tops and lingerie. I won't be looking for a bra like experience though, I love being able to go without.
I think it is interesting that so many women are coming to this thread seeking surgery advice. I hope you are finding positive feedback from those of us who have chosen to go flat and/or wearing breast forms after choosing against reconstruction. Is there a way to flag or pin the posts that talk about why each of us chose to go flat/not reconstruct? It would be nice to clean the board up and have an organized place new comers to find their way around.
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Starak - I found a black/grey/white striped pullover with a zipper at the neck very similar to the one you posted a picture of a while back. I loved it so much on you I had to get it. I love it. It is cotton and feels good aginst the scars whether or not I have an undershirt on. Also nice and warm for our Canadian winters.
regarding the gowns I do think sometimes that they are silly, and it was one of the things I was thinking about when we spoke about whether having no breasts changes your level of modesty with respect to your chest. I am always greatful for the gowns to keep me warm though, doctor's offices are cold! At our hospital if you are only having a mammo they don't gown you or leave while you disrobe (unless they think you are uncomfortable). If you are having a full (lol) breast work up (ie mammo ultrasound) they gown you because you have to move from room to room and radiologist is male.
MT1 I can understand how the feeling of the straps feels 'normal' because it is what you felt for so many years. But I certainly do not miss the bra straps, or the bra bands that never stayed put. I love feeling free and it actually does feel empowering to be free of that contraption called a bra! I wonder if this is how the feminists felt when they burned their bras years ago?
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Djustme, My sweater is also all cotton. I liked it so well that I have it in other colored stripes and in black. I lean to the very softest all cotton most of the time.
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Rosana, I am 2 1/2 years out on the one side, and 1 year out on the other, and lately I have been coping well....and then I got the flu last week. My scars ache. The area hurts to touch (from coughing?)...or maybe from sleeping all huddled in a ball (picture shoulders coming too close in the front of me while side sleeping. I never thought about it, but yes, I may be more concave.
I know I need to get back to some stretches every day, but I am surprised how quickly I seemed to "fall apart" again.
MT1...be *very* proud of your TV time, you will never know all the lives you have touched and given strength to. And I also have trouble with most fabrics against my skin...so I stick to my wintersilks cami's.
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Crystal, isn't it odd how scars do that? For me, a lot of it's not just the scars themselves, but the neuropathic phantom pain I had across my chest. It was never disabling, but I know for what felt like months I'd wake up and the first clear thought I would have would be the word "pain." That and the permanent feeling of having torn a muscle through my axilla from the node dissection used to bother me so much - they're both, especially the phantom pain, better now. But when I'm sick, or tired, or feeling really down, it returns full force.
Alexandria, I agree with you 100%. I also think the reconstruction question is a really tiny part of the larger issue of the crazy standards of appearance women feel we need to meet. Getting to a Barbie body would be terrible for most women, whether it means huge amounts of surgery or eating disorders, and failing to have a Barbie body shouldn't be such an esteem-crushing burden. I believe we should feel comfortable going out into the world flat, just women with short sturdy legs such as the ones that came with my body should feel comfortable going out into the world. Big breasts, little breasts, thighs, waists, chins, wrinkles - there are so many ways to be imperfect.
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Thanks ladies. As always,I appreciate your honesty. Surgery is scheduled for 1/23. I am ready,although work and home organizing are not,to get the healing started.
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I have talked about it before, but I think lifting weights is a great thing for us survivors to do. I know many of our doctors and practictioners are ill informed about this topic, telling us not to lift anything, or nothing over so many pounds, I have even had doctors and nurses tell me not to do downward dogs, there is a bunch of archiac information out there.
We certainly need help, I recommend a trainer, but I can say from my own experience, lifting weight has helped me see a marked difference in my body. Lifting weights helps my Axillary Webbing relax. In fact, I took a two week break from lifting over the holidays and I tightened up noticably. When I first started, I had some minor lymphatic swelling for a few days, then as my body got used to it, nothing of the sort. As my muscles tighten, my body feels better, I feel more confident. I can't really say enough about it.
I have paid a trainer to provide me with 7 different workouts, I do 3) 30-35 minute workouts each week here at home, she corrects my form through Skype, I lift 13 to 20 pounds each session. I use kettlebells. I have even started to do some kettlebell swings and I love them. I honestly think they are looseing my cording, beside helping my body to be as healthy as possible. I don't experience the tight scar tissue band as much as I used to and I tend to think it helps break up the scar tissue.
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As for those scratchy fabrics.....I know what you mean. Somedays are worse than others. But, if my memory serves me right, I had problems with scratchy fabrics when going braless prior to my BMX. Since I was only a B cup, I didn't really need a bra except for this problem.
I agree with the weights & upper body workout. I'm genetically a wimp. 5'5" & about 105lbs. So the weights I lift seem small compared to others. So, I don't compare. I have the most toned arms of any other person in their early fifties I know(I'm 54). I keep checking others arms out, partially because of my concern about LE. (I can make a case for all my friends having LE). And perhaps partially because I want to offset any residual feelings I may have about being breastless. Just a different way of contributing to "looking good" & more importantly "feeling good".
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I had the most wonderful physical therapist who did a kind of massage that broke up scar tissue. Weight training sounds good, too. I wanted to do that, but never did.
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The important thing to remember about weight lifting if you are at risk of developing lymphedema is that you need to increase the amount of weight you are lifting slowly. Read the study MT1 posted the link for.
I have lymphedema and exercise, but I wear compression garments and am careful to increase the intensity of my workout slowly and monitor how I react.
MT1, downward dogs can be problematic for folks with LE. Because your arms are in a dependent position, lymphatic fluid doesn't necessarily drain. I can do them, most days, but sometimes it is better for me to figure out alternatives.0
