I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
Comments
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Feelingfeline, I kind of understand how you think about being embarassed because people might think you were wearing false boobs rather than being embarassed about being flat. Gave me a little pause to think.
On Easter I got the boobs out of the box for the first time in months (?maybe 9 or 10? maybe a year? maybe only 3?) - once again found they really didn't make much difference in my appearance overall because of the style of clothes that I wear, but they DID help give me that sensory feedback and my chest felt better. However, the bra that I had to use ( and ALL of my bras are like this) have such small arm holes that they rub against the front and back of my axilla and set off the severe nerve pain in the back of my arm (the one the BS told me would be numb, but didn't tell me that as the nerves try to heal they sometimes get hypersensitive). So it was a mixed blessing for comfort, made no difference in how I felt about going out and how I looked.0 -
Feelingfeline, I have the same thing with my insurance (2 bras plus 1 silicone every 2 years). It bothers me not to wear the foob because my shirt fits funny on that side and I keep thinking it should be altered to fit well. My wardrobe consists entirely of T shirts and pants or jeans. I'm really looking forward to next March when I can get a new foob in a smaller size. I've lost 10lbs since the fitting so the real one is smaller than the foob.
I'm glad you're comfortable not wearing a foob. I wish I were. I'm ok at home, but wear it when I go out. I think it would work better to go without if the real one was smaller. I keep bringing up the subject of being completely flat and never wearing a bra again. DH does not seem enthused about that idea, but it's probably more to do with having another surgery than appearance.
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Hi Wren, Nice to meet you. I have often thought it must be a bit simpler in the clothes dept to be BMX, though I know it must be a hell of a lot lot to recover from surgically. In Ireland it is not normal for a surgeon to offer a prophylactic mastectomy except for in high risk cases - BRAC gene. So I am an Amazon woman. My DH seems to be fond of the one remaining, though like yours I'm sure he would put health way ahead of pleasure.
As I am very lucky not to have the BRAC gene I don't personally have a big fear about getting a new primary cancer in the other breast. Statistically I think the bigger danger is the possibility of recurrence.
Reading your post did put this thought into my mind though: If in my case (putting that in itallics to emphasise I am talking solely about myself, not about anyone else on here) it would not be for prophylactic reasons - then the only reason I am even imagining cutting off this part of my body is for clothes convenience reasons. I have to admit to myself that it sounds pretty mad phrased this way.
If I were suddenly offered the option down the line I don't think I personally would go for it.Best wishes with getting your new neater sized foob! XXX
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Feeling Feline, I never thought of it that way, but you're right it does sound kind of mad. My BMX was at first sort of prophylactic on one side, but there were things on that side that if I had not had the BMX would have had to be biopsied, and, as it turned out, were things that would have needed attention although they weren't invasive cancer like I had on the other side. Psychologically, I could not deal with the thought of any more than the minimum of scans and biopsies the rest of my life, and that was my major reason for wanting the BMX. Looking at it rationally, that the chance of another primary invasive cancer is not that high, wasn't reassuring enough when the first one wasn't picked up by routine screening mammogram (even in retrospect) 8 months before my diagnosis of at stage III. But even before my diagnosis I knew I'd want BMX and just get them gone if it happened to me.
I'm sure it's simpler in the clothes department for us totally flatties. Probably feels simpler too.
We all want to look our best. I get that. I want my clothes to fit well so I avoid some things. But we don't have anything to be ashamed of. I actually tell myself that about my post-baby tummy, too. That's more of a badge of honor to me than my mastectomy scars because it represents something hard I chose to do, but it's kind of the same thing. Life leaves these marks on us that shouldn't bring shame, they just shouldn't. I wish the fashion and advertising industries weren't so unscathed-youth oriented. People are more interesting when they've accumulated some dents and scratches.
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Hi all. I just want to comment that I have had BMX... on left 23 years ago and on right 2 years ago. Before the surgeries, I was fairly flat-chested to begin with. and I always had problems with getting bras that fit right and with getting clothing to fit. It seems that women's clothing is constructed to allow breasts -- even tee shirts are cut that way. so nothing ever hung right and forget dresses! I did a lot of sewing my own clothing. after surgery -- the first time, I wore a silicon prosthesis and mastectomy bra. BUT -- I could never find a doggone bra that was comfortable. so, I bought regular bras and sewed in a pocket. now, I'm wearing lightly weighted foam prostheses... they are much lighter and cooler -- and still trying to find a decent bra that is light and doesn't feel tight and miserable after a few hours. I've asked myself... why not just forget it and go "flat?" I wouldn't really mind... but don't have the courage, as I live in South Florida, which seems to be the land of the women with very large boobs. maybe one of these days...
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FeelingFeline, when I decided to have BMX, I almost felt like I was being selfish, because it was secretly what I preferred (to UMX) as far as appearance/convenience/etc. The biggest reasons I chose bilateral were related to recurrence risk, future screenings, etc. but a huge part of it was simply that I wanted to be happy in my own skin and I felt like bilateral gave me the best chances of achieving that. I felt guilty because on the slim chance I'd ever be able to have another baby after all this, I felt I should have saved the "good" breast to nurse. And I felt like making a decision that would give me some semblance of peace with myself... was just such a foreign thing to do. I spent my entire life making decisions that put others first. It was weird to put myself first. It was strange to realize this is MY body and I get to make decisions about it myself. I have a lot of abuse in my past and it was really empowering for me to be able to make a choice about what would happen to my own body. I don't know if all (or any) of these things go through anyone else's mind but those are some of the thoughts I had when I was making this choice and in some ways it does sound mad! But I feel like I gave myself a gift by making the choice that I felt would give me the most peace with my body, with my health, with my appearance, all of it.
Not sure why I'm sharing all that, I guess just because I did feel like a crazy person to choose having both taken!
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Thinking of Mel, wondering where she is these days. Haven't heard from her in a while.
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Hi Indenial, Outfield, I just want to stress again I was only talking about myself, not judging anyone else about their decision. As best I can judge from outside the system choosing BMX seems to be very usual in the US? Each of us is making any of decisions that faced us based on the best information available to us at the time combined with our personal circumstances. Here I wasn't even making a choice in this particular area, umx is simply the current standard of medical practice in Ireland, unless there is evidence of disease in 2 breasts, or the high risk BRAC gene. If I had had the choice of a prophylactic mx on the other breast available to me I might well have gone for it, for peace of mind and also for clothes convenience. It's hard to know unless actually faced with the choice. What I was saying was Wren's post made me realise that if a genie were to suddenly arrive and offer me that choice now, based on my current health and life circumstances, I would RIGHT NOW only be doing it for cosmetic reasons - which made me laugh, and actually made me feel better about the slightly awkward business of being lopsided. I was a little bit worried posting that up there about myself just in case I made anyone think I was judging them. As the saying goes: until you have walked a mile in another (wo)man's moccassins...
Outfield, I so agree about the fashion and advertising industry. I spend a lot of time working in photoshop (a powerful and enjoyable application) and it is hugely (ab)used to make the unreal seem the ideal. Even youthful and highly attractive women are being "improved". If you want to see take a look at Huffington Post's slideshow (halfway down page) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/victorias-secret-photoshop-fail_n_1734800.html?utm_hp_ref=photoshop-fail
This is only one of half a dozen slideshows they have put up on that particular topic.
Alynne you made me smile talking about the big chests in South FL, that's where my MIL lived most of the time. Must be something in that lovely soft water down there. or, as MT1 says at the start of this thread, perhaps they are all walking round wearing foobs (XXL size). There is a lot of BC there too, sadly. My MIL had many friends who got struck. At the time I had no notion that it could ever happen to me....
That reminds me, one thing that bugs me from time to time in the BC journey is someone (usually well meaning hubby) saying "you were/are very brave", followed immediately by a second comment "but of course you didn't have much choice". I always feel like the second comment takes away from the first. Just because men get conscripted into armies, does that make them less brave if they come through whatever they had to do? Generally I think they are considered brave. We all got conscripted into BC, so just because it wasn't an active choice does that take anything from our bravery in putting our heads down and getting through?
Would love to know if anyone else gets that comment.
Love to all of you from a very cold and sunny Wicklow this morning.
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Feelingfeline, You are absolutely right about that comment. The 'but' cancels out the first comment.
A southern friend of mine says you can say anything about a person as long as you follow it with 'God love her.' As in "She's a real gossip, God love her." It's almost as good as slapping someone as long as you say 'mosquito' -- which might not work in Ireland. Do you have mosquitos there?
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Oh Wren, that's so funny. You've really brought a smile to my face! My husband is southern (from NC) so I can just imagine that said. Oddly enough we do that "God love her" thing here too. Re: mosquito, none here (hooray, hooray). In Ireland you would have to shout "leprachaun!"
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Linda N-3, feelingfeline - I think you hit it right on the nose when you said you might be more embarrassed about someone knowing you were wearing foobs than someone knowing you had no breast(s). I think that is actually one of my biggest hangups keeping me from going forward with wearing the prothesis. I was very small breasted before the mx's. Growing up, my sisters (all large breasted) suggested I wear a padded bra - it was a similar feeling - I would have been more embarrassed about someone knowing I was wearing a padded bra than that I had small breasts. The sensory feedback that Linda N-3 mentioned was the most positive thing I felt about having the silicone prothesis on. It was something I was very surprised to feel. It's almost like knowing what it felt like to have breasts. I guess if I decide not to wear them, I can take them out of the box from time to time for nostolgia's sake, and then put them back. (Alynne61 - in my opinion, no bra is the best part of going flat.)
With summer around the corner, I am thinking however that foobs might be necessary for a bathing suit. If so, does anyone have any suggestions about what material the foobs should be made of for swimsuits? I'm imagining all kinds of nightmares like having them make the suit saggy when wet; or having them go flat; or chlorine damage to silicone or....? Or, is it possible to wear a swimsuit flat and also have nobody notice? Any suggestions?
(Wren - though small breasted, I went a whole year with only one breast, and can confirm that no one seemed to notice unless I told them. But I totally understand that it felt sooo much harder to dress and I was very self conscious about it).
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Djustme, I just bought a swim suit top similar to this one and it looked pretty good on. I think the scrunchy fabric on top disguised just how flat I am. It was a little tricky to find one that came up high enough to hide my scars, and I'm still thinking I might prefer something that comes up a bit higher, that one is great but worried it will get stretched out and start to fall down or something! I love this one, at least in the pic, not sure how it would look on! I was so worried about swimsuits for some reason... even though it's still in the 40's here I felt a huge need to shop for a new swimsuit just one month post-mastectomy because I needed to reassure myself I'd be able to find one! So I was glad to see there are options that work and it's just a matter of finding my favorite.
Oh and I also found that suits with removable pads fall better (after removing the pads) than ones that are sewn in, the shaping left me with 2 deflated balloons at the top of the suit lol!
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I think you can find a suit that looks ok without foobs. I made a foob out of nylon net and sewed it into one suit. It's a bit bulky to pack, but dries easily and looks fine. I also pinned a microbead foob into a different suit and it worked well too. The microbead foobs float, so they have to be secured in the suit.
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Oh my, those photoshop pix are going to disturb my sleep.
I did smirk at the last one - the smiling family with a mysterious hand on mom's shoulder.
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When I first started this thread I thought everyone was looking at me. I live in NYC where fashion is very important and I live in an area where people have money, so there is a bit of keeping up with the Jone's going on. I think people notice my flatness, I think it is hard not to, as I often wear t-shirts that are form fitting and I am not a girly-girl, I dont wear makeup and hardly think to wear scarves.
But the difference is, I think people are just curious. I don't think as many people are looking or noticing- as when I first had BMX, but they do look. Now, I am finally at a place where it doesn't bother me when people notice. Don't get me wrong, I will have some days where I revert right back to the panic of feeling I am being scrutinized, but these are less and less.
This is a major shift, going from having breasts to having none, we have lived a very long time with a specific shape, we expect ourselves to look one way as we walk the streets looking another. All the parts and pieces do reformulate, making a single vision of self, but it takes time. And it can be quite uncomfortable to face these things.
Thankfully, I have rounded a curve and feel much stronger in my person. And in large part, it is because of these boards and you people! So thanks to you.
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MT1,
Such wise words and I am so very grateful for you starting this thread. I too am stronger because of all the women on these boards. I get the major shift in how we view ourselves and separating how comfortable we are with how we look and how we interpert others looks. Gradually my comfort level with how I look and how I am perceived are changing.
I am stronger, but still have a way to go.
Be Well,
Nel
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Mel, glad to hear it, and I agree it is quite an adjustment.
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Welcome back MT1! We are all at different stages of our journeys in getting used to the new landscape, but at least hearing from other women lets us know that a) it's ok if we are not all super women who just bounce back like the rest of the world seems to think we should; and b) we get to hear from lots other women and we know it's possible to bounce back eventually. Some of us just take a little longer.
Indenial - Thanks for the links. You didn't say, but I think you are looking at these bathing suits without foobs? I never would never have thought about trying the first one, but I can see how it might work if it comes up high enough to hide the scars, but not so high as to irritate the underarm lymph area. It would especially be good without foobs if the material was printed. Re the second suit - I already know from trying many camisoles that racer backs hurt my lymph area, unless they are fairly loose, but loose wouldn't work with a bathing suit. I am thinking of trying a speedo style top because even though it has crossed straps at the back and a geometric design on sides that from the picture looks like no one would notice if looking at you from the front.
Wren - The foob made of nylon net - what type of padding is in it? That was one of my fears regarding the micro-beads that the foobs would become detached and come floating up in front of you!
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some suits that I like that are not D-cup, lol. What is it with D cup suits this year?0 -
No kidding, when I *was* a D-cup I could barely find a suit that fit right, now I'm flat & there are D-cups everywhere! lol! Those are cute suits... love the 3rd one but it might be too low for me. Yes, I was looking at suits without foobs. I don't have foobs but I think if I did, swimsuits particularly would give me a lot of anxiety! I'd be worried they'd float or fall out & sink to the bottom of the ocean or something!! Maybe I'm just paranoid. Anyway, I was happy to find a few suits that work flat. I don't have the lymph issue, no extra irritation there or anything, maybe because my BS used the same incision for my MX & SNB?
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I was looking for suits tonight as well. Not a d cup now and never was! What is up with all the d cups? And to complicate matters, I have always bought the Land's End Tall suits, the tankinis. So I want a tankini, for a masectomy and long in length. I think I may be asking way too much. LOL. And I spend a good amount of time at the beach so really.
Be well
Nel
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MT1, I'm glad you posted this I told my everyday Dr. (someone I grew up knowing) that if she had asked me six months ago if I could get rid of my breasts, I'd have probably said yes. And, that I couldn't understand why I was so emotional about having a mastectomy. As I stated, she's known me for more than 30 years, knows that I've been a tomboy forever, knows I've been divorced for years and have no real interest in dating, knows that my idea of fashion basically includes daily baths and clothes that don't have holes. As far as I was concerned my boobs were in the way and unnecessary. But she said it exactly right, that was when it would have been my choice and now my choice has been taken away. I'm about 2 weeks post op, returning to work tomorrow and am not wearing any foobs. I have a pair, but I also have a darned seroma that's keeping me a little uncomfortable and I'm just opting to go flat. I'm also debating a wig. I'm thinking of a scarf or cap when the time comes, but I'll probably buy a wig and it can sit on my dresser with my falsies to keep them company.
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Djustme, The whole foob is nylon net. I used one of those bath poof things and took it apart. It's made of miles of net in strips. You start winding, twisting as you go. I think it's a little like making ribbon roses. Mine didn't want to stay together, so I took a second piece of nylon net strip and put my twist inside, then secured the second piece so it kept the first one in place. I added a pocket to the swimsuit soft bra, put the nylon foob inside, and sewed the pocket closed. No chance of it getting away. I'm pretty sure I read about it here. That would have been Feb 2012 or later.
Indenial, Microbead foobs float, so they would need a secure pocket or be pinned into a swim suit. I think you'll be able to find one that works going flat.
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You can get weighted sponge foobs from nicola jane and they do not move in swimsuits
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Nel, I was looking at the tankinis at Lands' End and they have one that I can click on "long" and the mastectomy option still appears. It's the "Women's Beach Living Adjustable Scoopneck Tank" in solid colors, not the print. I hope this link works:
http://www.landsend.com/pp/womens-beach-living-adjustable-scoopneck-tankini-top~231497_59.html
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Anyone interested in swimsuits for Flat, take a look at the Catalina suits at Walmart. Look for ones that are stretch but have no seaming or darts at the bustline. I bought one last year and then cut out the upper lining including the foam cups which will allow it to lay flat. BTW there should be a larger selection in the stores than online. This year, there is a version, one piece, where the main part of the suit is a solid color and then has a print inset on the sides. It gives an illusion of an hourglass figure from the front. A darker solid color will make the lack of girls mostly disappear. It is not 100% but many of the Catalina suits are pretty high in the front much like competition swimwear.
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CC,
Even though I am 100% sure I made the right choice to go flat, don't mind what people think (and most of them don't notice), and am satisfied with how I look, I'm still sad my body had to go through this. There is still grief for a me before breast cancer, before facing my mortality. I don't like thinking that a part of me got chopped up and discarded. I have some chronic pain from my axillary node dissection that limits me in all of NOTHING I do, but bothers me because it's a reminder of the cancer. Those are just my issues, but for anybody going through a cancer diagnosis and mastectomy(ies) - this is a HUGE thing to have happen to you.
I never wore a wig, but I sure needed a hat. Don't know how those bald men do it.
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Starak - I agree that the idea of the athletic type of swim suit that you describe with the print at the sides, giving an illusion of a bit of an hour glass shape would definitely work for some of us.
CC - Every time I see a post from someone who is going back to work a couple of weeks after surgery I just can't imagine it! I am still sooo tired. (Although I have a suspicion that I am premenopausal and that has a lot to do with the lack of energy; not to mention all the emotional issues I went through losing my job over my surgeries.) I don't know if you have any choice about going back right away, but take as much rest as you can when you are home in the evenings/weekends, because even the discomfort of just having clothes touch the skin all day can be difficult to deal with. And yes, I think it is a very different thing having your breasts taken away due to cancer than having chose it. Having no control over what is happening to your body or your life is very difficult. I think it is part of why some of us (me included) seem to obsess over things like foobs/no foobs, or clothes in general, because of the need to feel control over whatever aspects we can.
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I started a thread on the BreastCancer.Org website asking them to revisit their verbiage and lack of information on going flat after breast cancer diagnosis. They are asking for suggestions on what we would like to see covered in their new write ups. PLEASE take a moment to read over the thread and make suggestions: http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/82/topic/801995?page=1#post_3505708
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