Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally
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You know there are integrative medical oncologists out there, just very few and they will discuss nutrition and supplements.
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AliceKo- I went to one last month. She did discuss supplements, nutrition and exercise. Yet, she referred back to the MO for hormonal therapies. Also, in my experience, there’s many departments within the Integrative care facility.
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I am a few months into taking anastrazole, and very concerned about hair thinning, which is significant. I avoided other significant side effects, but this one has me wondering about whether to switch meds (I suspect they all cause hair loss), bite the bullet and continue, or discontinue the pills altogether and try something else.
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Miranda - maybe B vitamins will help your hair though you might have to research whether or not it is allowed with the Arimidex. You could also ask around and see if your body will adjust to the medication and the hair will stop thinning. I suggest consulting your doctor to see what you can do.
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bump
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Marijen - a couple of boards that are more active are:
Complementary & Holistic Medicine - Diet and Lifestyle
Fitness and Getting Back in Shape - Plant-Based and Vegan Support and Recipes
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I am considering strongly using natural(diet, fasting, exercise) and supplemental methods in lieu of anastrozole for my bc recovery. The MO told me that taking an AI for five(to ten) years would reduce the recurrence rate from 9%(I also plugged my bc info into an online calculator which said 8.5%) to 6%. I was on anastrozole for several weeks pre-lumpectomy due to covid19 delay possibilities. My blood pressure has gone up(I'm already on two meds-one is just plain STUPID and has changed my life for the worse) so I am reluctant to keep adding hypertension meds to the mix, and I just believe in my gut that a 3 ish% "gain" if you will is not worth all of the effects that can occur from an AI.
How does one determine which supplements they will take for the long haul? Specifically to target the estrogen receptors? My estrogen is high, progesterone nil-I struggled to conceive my 4th child(had two early miscarries, my oldest daughter remembered this) and reading suggests that increasing the progesterone will bring the estrogen down some-why is that not considered more? (By docs?)
I am seeing a sports orthopedic doc this month for a 2 year plus tennis injury that has destroyed my left hip, hence weight gain and overall loss of fitness and 'good health' that I had a hold of just three years ago(average weight, played tennis up to five days weekly, mostly plant based diet) But that and another illness, well, it changed me. So, time to get healthy, get active and make changes.
How do I pick and choose what supplements will work best for me? I so appreciate the information, the science and the support behind all of this. I have been shuffled along in this very early stage of treatment with a general "standard of care" mantra from all three docs, and it has disheartened me. My gut tells me to do something else, and I am trying to determine exactly what.
Thanks everyone
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toria1212 - how did you get information on how anastrozole would work for you specifically. All I've ever heard are the general statistics, which is close to 30%, I think. I am moderately ER+, negative progesterone etc. Taking brand name Arimidex, which for several months did not seem to have the joint SEs of the generics, but I am now experiencing those. So hard to get good information about supplements. You might want to consult with a functional medicine specialist/ND. I read one blog about avoiding Dr. Amazon because there are many frauds out there. Diet, exercise are healthy, and many ways to approach. There seems to be disagreement about if soy and flax are safe for ER+. Nobody seems to like the supplements, but they do disagree on if the food itself is safe. I've been watching a free series "Proven" . Host Nick Polizzi: Healing Breakthroughs Backed By Science . They are trying to sell you a more in depth presentation, but they do have a lot of good info on the free series. Tonights episode is on Cancer, each episode is good for 24 hrs. You might be able to sign up here. https://store.provenseries.com/own-the-series/
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Hi-my MO specifically said that my very early cancer,untreated with med, would have a 9% recurrence rate, with anastrozole(or other) would reduce to 6%. My four weeks of radiation begins tomorrow.
I found and am thankfully! meeting with an ND on Thursday, who specializes in oncology. Honestly, I have not taken the AI for five days, have cut sugar close to nothing, am intermittent fasting-ish, and I feel much, much better. I had a very heavy, bloated, full body icky feeling-not to mention stiffness in certain fingers which I still have(and did not have before taking anastrozole). I am praying that this doc will listen to me and my desire for other remedies to my ER+.
I will check out the series. Thank you! xx
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toria1212 & BlueGirlRedState--Taking your risk for recurrence from 9% down to 5% is a 30% reduction in risk just as your doctor told you. That's pretty much what I hear from most doctors. I ended up only having to do Tamoxifen for 5 years which gave me about a 40% reduction. I went from a 9% to about a 5% with Tamoxifen. When I finished Tamoxifen I was pretty worried about how to reduce my risk without the meds. My doctors were very helpful in easing my fears. They gave me the BCI test which showed a risk factor of 6% having finished the Tamoxifen. They said that working out daily would give me another 30% reduction down to 4% and eating healthy would reduce my risk another 25% down to 3% and that if I would drop about 10 pounds to go from 160lbs (on a 5'5" frame) I would drop another 30% so now down to 2%. I figure that's a risk number I could live with! The assured me that due to my ongoing diligent medical care I was getting (regular mammograms, pap smears, dermatology checks, wellness checks, etc) that I had a far better chance of no recurrence than most of my peers. For me, this was exactly what I needed to hear to help me carry on with life. Doesn't mean I don't panic whenever I have a pain but I have great faith in my doctors to help if it does come back.
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lala1 - my MO is huge proponent of healthy lifestyle (Mediterranean) and exercise. Since I tend to do that anyways, and have for years, we don't talk a lot about that. Probably still too much sugar , and maybe meat. I listened to a web presentation by Dr. Kristi Funk https://pinklotus.com/breastcenter/ . She went vegan after seeing too many otherwise healthy women with BC. Her book "Breasts, the Owners Manual" has lots of good information. Also read "Anti Cancer - A new way of Living' David Servan-Shreibner, lots on what we put in to our bodies and staying active. "Anti Cancer Living" Jeffries and Lorenzo who also emphasize building social and emotional support to that life style.
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Hi Mana Felice
I've used Charlottes web hemp cbd oil for 6 or more years . I now buy a different brand of cbd oil .
I had a brain met all along in my stage 3 diagnosis and never realized I had a brain tumor nor did my MO. I discovered it myself . Before the tumor I was on bio identical hormones essentially estrogen progesterone that was for siezures that developed after menopause And that caused in turn breast cancer .So now I've used cbd oil to help my siezures they are completely resolved ! One caveat being that once I went off the arimedex the estrogen went up ! I'm a strict vegan use many alternatives for cancer but it troubles me that Estradiol is high . I'm researching NI H studies that say that cbd oil is the best thing going against ER positivie breast cancer . I've got ahold of about 3 studies on Cbd and all so far proclaim that it is safe to use .
since I'm still cancer free after 9 years with fully Being told not to expect to live I'm fine !
however the estrogen levels worry me . Cbd Like flax oil is a phytoestrogen!
ive no one to blame except myself if I get it back and no one to counsel me except my own common sense ! I'm still with cbd unless I get a recrruance.
I think cbd is a godsend thus far for my type of siezures and I don't have to take meds . I also use THC in minute amounts of less than .25 milligrams for sleep at night . All the research indicates MMJ to be effective to fight a long list of cancers .
I agree you should ask your dr To measure your estrogen if you had ER positive!
Please forgive my typos I've lost use of my right hand due to the brain tumor. Which is thankfully gone for good . I cannot believe I even went thru brain surgery in 2012 !I think Cbd works for a lot of issues and you may want to try it if you feel better!
Peace and health to all . I love this forum and wouldn't go back to standard treatments ever !
All the best
Marcia M
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I agree with natural methods too, Marcia! I am treating my high estrogen by doing coffee enemas. I've refused all treatment offered, including a second surgery to clear my margins. I believe that natural methods are making the difference with me. I am not saying that it is for everyone, but I believe it is working for me.
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Hi everyone. I refused anti hormone therapy from the start for several reasons. Most important being poor QOL from multiple autoimmune disease. I try to exercise daily and have lost 30 pounds. I take several supplements to lower my estrogen levels naturally. So far so good. I just passed the 5 year mark. Good luck to all...
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14 months BC free and I started gradually taking tamoxifen, building up slowly. After six months, I began to have severe night sweats, hot flashes, and joint pain. I met with a Nateralpath and she suggested that I go down to taking tamoxifen every other day and supplementing with a Chinese herb called Myomin. Myomin is an all natural hormone blocker. Feeling great and no more side effects!
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lowering estrogen naturally - so what are people doing and how do you get estrogen measured/how often. Do you pay out of pocket for monitoring estrogen? If you were on hormonal therapy prior, any spiking in estrogen after finding natural methods? Any similar SEs as reported by those on AI or Tamoxifen.
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Three years ago, I went to a naturopath for a consultation. She wanted me to do all these tests and take supplements and attend some classes and then follow up tests. Yet, she couldn’t quote me a price. Just a price range of a couple thousand to 10 thousand dollars. I walked away.
My oncologist said that there was an octogenarian diagnosed with bc that had estrogen receptors. So even after menopause, the body still makes it. So I try to metabolize the estrogen by exercising and eating high fiber, getting proper sleep and managing stress.
Just started Reloxifene (generic Evista) for osteoporosis. It is also an estrogen blocker, I think.
I eat ground flaxseed 2 tablespoons a day which may be a natural aromatase inhibitor.
I don’t get my estrogen levels tested. I just do what I can and hope for the best.
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BlueGirlRedState...yes you can get your hormone levels checked but conventional docs don't do it. You would have to find a naturopathic doctor. Lowering your estrogen naturally does not seem to come with all the side effects that anti hormone therapy does. There is a reason for it but its complicated. When you lower your levels naturally you lower the bad estrogen that causes breast cancer but not the good estrogen that our vital organs need. This includes heart, brain, skin, bladder and more. Hope this helps. Good luck to all.
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at 71, I turned down Arimidex to keep my QOL . because of my high onco score of 42, KI score of 97, I was given 2 1/2 years if I did not take it..
Since January I lost 27 lbs from 157lbs to get to a BMI of 22,
I want to get down to 125lbs before the end of the year , I walk 6 miles per day rain or shine on my treadmill,
my estrogen levels went down 25% in the first 5 months, look on the computer for labs such as Quest or Labcorp where you do not need a prescription
to have a blood test.
supplements I take are multivitamin, DIM, vitamin D3, turmeric/curcumin, vitamin C, grape seeds, special blend of mushrooms,
and I drink a lot of green tea with ginger. I do not eat sugary anything, and I snack all day long on baked broccoli or cauliflower
I have never been a vegetarian, I still eat beef, chicken, once a week, but I now prefer vegetables and fish.
This is keeping my body and mind active , while I wait for a covid19 vaccine to resume my previous life.
I am not pushing this on anybody, it was an easy personal decision that if I were younger I might not have chosen.
.
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meetooat71 - sounds like you are doing well and maybe your own best doctor. What you are doing seems to be working well for you, keep it up. Hopefully your DRs notice how lifestyle changes can really improve things. Sugar remains one of my demons. I do not consume "alot", but more than I should. And the more I eat, the more I want. My oncologist is a proponent of healthy lifestyle, meditrerranean diet andstaying active, but does advise me to try and get vitamins etc from the foods I eat, vs supplements. Whan I mentioned adding more green tea to diet, she said fine, but drink tea rather than taking pills.
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Metooat71 - so encouraging to read about your plan and your success. I have radically changed my diet, and agree that I probably couldn’t have made these changes 20 years ago.
I wish there were a few naturopath doctors in my area. That one holistic lady I met who wanted to charge me $10k, had a certain plan so I couldn’t dictate what exactly I wanted done. It was her mega bucks plan or the door. Add to that, I had just finished treatment and needed a break from being a patient and making appointments.
It just seems to me that my estrogen levels must be declining because my skin is more dry and wrinkly, and I’m gaining more weight in the middle. None of this is good. It’s absolutely essential that I get control over the weight and build more muscle.
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GoKale - the $10K upfront and "my plan or the door" sound unprofessional. It helps to find someone you trust and works with you. Maybe you could "tele-interview" an ND within a range you are willing to travel. Depending on how many "in-person" visits and whether any lab work coud be done locally, find an ND that will work with you. I found the ND I consulted seemed annoyed when I did not want to do a blood test for allergies/food sensitivities, but she was still receptive to my questions. I still have one more visit for the 3 consultations I paid for up front. She also recommended multis vs the many I take and "boneup" https://www.jarrow.com/product/77/Bone-Up to help counter Arimidex's effects on bones. She also recommended 20 mg mellatonin, not for sleep, but because it seems like it might help with BC. When I see her again. I want to ask about countering the loss of estrogen's positive effects, low blood counts caused by Ibrance, and Intermittant fasting (there seem to be several strategies). I eat healthy for the most part and am active. One problem with the multi she recommended, it does not have the form of Mg that seems to work for me or the level of vit D/K that I want.
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BlueGirlRedState - thank you for this information. The Bone Up vitamins look really good. I compared it with the Bone Restore vitamins I’m buying from Life Extension, and I realized that I can probably do better with either the Bone Restore that contains K2, or with these Bone Up vitamins from Jarrow.
Good idea about doing a tele consultation with Naturopath.
Melatonin- I think I read that it’s good for your bones, too. I have a bottle of time-release 3mg (maybe 2mg), but I find that I don’t sleep as well when I take it. 20 mg is a lot that your doctor is suggesting.
I had a Dexa Scan in March and it showed osteoporosis so preserving what I have left is an immediate concern.
My other problem is my weight gain around my middle.
I read that a prunes and almonds help your bones. One of them helps prevent bone loss and the other helps build bones. So I eat both almost daily.
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GoKale - the multi ND suggested Thorne Basic Nutrients III. There is overlap with what is in Jarrow BoneUP, which she also recommended. Maybe because of the overlap, she suggested 1/2 the dose of the multi, and 1/3 dose in BoneUP. Also may have considered what I told her my usual food intake. I did not give up the other supplements I take D/K, Mg, C. I know you can get too much of some vitamins (got too much Mg about 2 years ago, acted like a strong laxitive, too much of some other vitamins/elements can also have undesisrable or even toxic effects). I should do the math and see how much I am getting for all the vitamins, see if any are way too much. ND also suggested Turkey Tail Mushroom powder. Even though I eat regular mushrooms almost daily, I add the TT powder occasionally. Am concerned about potential frauds on Amazon.
Weight around the middle - I think weight gain is a common problem for older women and gets worse with cancer and its treatments. Lots of strategies, the "best" will be one that works for you and gives you good nutrition. Staying hydrated and active is important. Logging what and when you eat/exericse can also help Water rather than beverages. Cucumbers can help take out the city taste of tap water. I also like "Hint" water, with no added sweetners or carbonation, but gets expensive. I get almost daily newsletters from "My Fitness Pal", https://www.myfitnesspal.com/ Everything from recipe ideas to exercises to weight loss ideas to muscle building. Sometimes it "fits" other times not. Also get info from https://foodrevolution.org/ , advocates of plant based diets. Some of it I find useful, other time not.
Melatonin - years ago I tried it for sleep, it did not help. When the ND suggested it, she said it was to help with cancer. Does it? I have no idea. She also suggested one of those "green powders" to add to smoothies. I did not try it. 1) I eat fairly healthy, 2) expense, and 3) it had grapefruit which Ibrance users are told to avoid. Actually maybe it was pomegranate. One pharmacist said to avoid pomegranate, 2 others said they did not have any information about avoiding with Ibrance.
Almonds - my tall skinny partner eats raw almonds regularly, has done so since early 20s, and seems to have very healthy bones. Then again, all the men in his family seem to be tall, skinny, with healthy bones.
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FYI - Jarrow Bone Strength Has been rated by ConsumerLabs as a "Top Pick" for Calcium, Magnesium, Boron, Vitamin D & Vitamin K. Dosage: 6 tablets per day (2 tablets 3x a day, with a meal). Jarrow contains bovine gelatin, which I why I do not take these.
For many years, I have taken New Chapter Bone Strength, which ConsumerLabs Rated "Approved" for Calcium, Magnesium, Vitamin D & Vitamin K. Why I take this one: The reasons I prefer these: Plant Sourced, Whole Food Calcium, not Limestone and dosage 3 tablets per day.
GoKale4320 - Was your DEXA Scan osteopenia (a pre-cursor to osteoporosis) rather than osteoporosis? Did anyone also recommend weight bearing exercise to keep bones strong? I was able to get a PT consult for exercises to prevent osteopenia from morphing into osteoporosis. Please feel free to PM me if you want.
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Celiac - thank you for the post on New Chapter Bone Strength and Jarrow BoneUP. The Bovine gelatin in BoneUP did give me pause to think after ND Rx'd it. I have also read about Calcium source and whether your body really absorbs it or not, the Jarrow page is not very clear on the calcium source, but googling microcrystalline hydroxyapatite says bovine bones. Also for reminder on weight bearing exercise. I hike/walk daily, but now that the gym is open with distancing, probably tie to get back into weight liftng as well.
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BlueGirlRedState - Glad this info was helpful. Sounds like you are doing good with the exercise.
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Hello All,
I am new to this thread, but am very interested in alternative treatments. I just finished my last round of chemo (Gemzar). I cannot continue to take these toxic drugs. They are killing me. Anyway, I’m wondering where those of you who take CBD oil or supplements get them. I’m afraid to buy them over the internet unless someone can suggest a safe site.
I am determined to fight this disease without laying in bed everyday and hating my QOL. I have been metastatic (ER/PR+, HERS2-) since 2017, and have had continual progression throughout my skeleton, but so far bone only.
Any and all info. is welcome. Thank you
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Hey booboo, you might want to check with exbrnxgrl. She's also a bone metster who has mentioned using CBD many times. She may know of a reputable source.
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Thanks Trish. I appreciate your response.
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