Study n effectiveness of Iodine
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Momine, I see how your personal experience has convinced you. My mother, stage I and my aunt stage III, both had surgery and hormonals. My aunt had rads, but both had no chemo. My aunt's tumor was embedded in her chest wall. She is 12 years out now. My mother is 8 years out. No recurrence. Even though age histological factors, etc., play a role, I think we know now that it's really just a crap shoot, when it comes to whether or not or how much chemo and hormonals are going to help. It comes down to making our choices, then letting the chips fall where they may. Being that convt. tx and convt.tx outcomes are so individual, nothing can guarantee that we will receive any benefit at all from any particular treatment. We have seen that time and time again with the women on these boards, and studies now recognize and support that some chemos may enc. the growth of cancer. We live in this world of ambiguity, groping in the dark for some light. I feel if doctor's can't deliver that, then it's up to the patient to take charge of their health. It has given me hope and has liberated me to do that. Generally, I feel better. I don't regret my conventional choices that I made, convinced I benefited from the surgeries, probably some from the hormonals for the year and a half I did them. But those hormonals took their toll. I got to the point I didn't want to fight for my life when my life was physically and mentally deeply miserable every single day and I wasn't able to function physically, mentally,occupationally, interpersonally,etc. I found natural aromatase inhibitors, which are more tolerable. I take them, along with things to boost my immune system, and my quality of life (like lugols iodine). I'm at peace with my choices, wherever the chips may fall.
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naturals: many years ago I'd pick raspberry leaves & drink tea from them. this was long before this thing came upon me. it was to take the place of coffee which it was able to do pretty much, & it was free as the berry plants grow everywhere here wild. I often recall the saying that whatever diseases occur in an area, the cures will be there too.
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Light, certainly there are no guarantees either way. I have made peace with that, and operate within that uncertainty.
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Light, if you don't mind my asking, how come your aunt did not have chemo with a stage 3B breast cancer?
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My aunt said she wasn't offered chemo. i'm not sure why. I think I've explained fully how I feel about chemo, which is why I didn't do it. My onc offered it 2 or 3 times. I brought him a study that said that ooph and mx at the same time was as or more effective than chemo. He told me this is how breast cancer used to be treated. He and my gyno then got together then called me and said that they thought this plan would give me the best overall survival. I was 98% ER and PR. I had had estrogen dominance issues for so long, fibroids up to my ears, and a host of other problems. Got the ovaries out had mx on same day, went on femara the first week. Fibroids all went away, which actually helped some. Then as each month wore on, I was less and less able to tolerate it. I changed my diet and lost of lot of weight. Exercise was the only thing that helped me to feel slightly better, then when I couldn't exercise anymore, because I was too sick and tired and sore, and couldn't do my job hardly, I had to draw the line. My hands also got crippled while I was taking it too.They still haven't fully recovered. I just got to the point that it was clear to me what I needed to do.
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light, thanks. that is so odd that she was not offered chemo, but I guess there could be various reasons. The joint issues with femara can be extemely tiresome, agreed.
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Bounce, there is a Directory of Iodine Literate Practitioners on at least two websites. Most are MDs, Naturopaths, DOs, or choropractors who are well-versed in iodine. I only know of two oncologists in my area who actively use iodine. They are very progressive and not afraid of adding harmless supplements to standard of care.
Light,how much Lugol's/Iodoral do you take? I had to gradually work up to 50 mgs.
Happy New Year!
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Lucy, 50 milligrams or 50 micrograms?
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Momine, you said: "I have a packet of seaweed in my pantry, and I eat it. I also eat a lot of seafood. The study from Japan is certainly interesting.What bothers me with a lot of the supplement stuff is that there seems to be a common assumption that if lack of vitamin D or iodine, as examples, MAY be related to cancer, then taking massive doses of the lacking nutrient will cure/prevent cancer. It is simply not a logical conclusion, and in the case of iodine (and several other supplements) taking massive doses may well be a really bad idea."
The impression I get from reading Brownstein is that the reason why we need to supplement is b/c bromide and fluoride will compete with and dominate the same receptors that take up iodine. I'm sure I'm not saying that right but I think you get the idea. Bromide esp is present in huge quantities in our culture, esp the US but I'm sure in Greece as well. This didn't use to be the case but bromide is in flame retardants, which are in everything we use practically, and esp in our houses due to being in carpeting, building materials, mattresses, clothing, cars, etc etc. Also, bromide has replaced iodine in our bread products. This is why he recommends supplementation and if you don't have cancer I believe he recommends, around 12 mg, the amount that a typical Japanese diet contains. If you do have cancer or other iodine related disease, he recommends much higher doses to drive off the bromine and flouride and then to saturate the cells. Of course this only reduces your risk, it doesn't eliminate it entirely. IN the case of vitamin D, the reason you take higher doses in the beginning is to get your levels up. Some folks don't absorb it well from sunshine, probably due to other missing cofactors, and most of us work all day and then go get sunburnt on vacation. Obviously you don't want to keep taking it after you have your levels up.
LOL on the conspiracy theorists; I guess I'm one, though a reluctant one. I've never been of that frame of mind before, but when I read stuff like this, I wonder:
"Lancet. 1976 Apr 24;1(7965):890-1.Dietary Iodine and Risk of Breast, Endometrial, and Ovarian Cancer by Stadel BVGeographic differences in the rates of breast, endometrial, and ovarian cancer appear to be inversely correlated with dietary iodine intake. Endocrinological considerations suggest that a low dietary iodine intake may produce a state of increased effective gonadotrophin stimulation, which in turn may produce a hyperoestrogenic state characterised by relatively high production of oestrone and oestradiol and a relatively low oestriol to oestrone plus oestradiol ratio. This altered endocrine state may increase the risk of breast, endometrial, and ovarian cancer. Increasing dietary iodine intake may reduce the risk of these cancers."
Note the date on that. They have suspected this from the 70's and never chose to act on it or study it further at that time. I love my OB/gyn, but never once did he say one word to me about iodine when he wanted to perform an ablation surgery on my fibroids, or when he dx'ed me with cystic ovaries. He offered no anything to fix those cystic ovaries "because they aren't causing a problem." Fibrocystic breasts was something I learned to live with and now at 54 I'm just now having hot flashes and late periods (and really heavy now) after bleeding from age 11. It's obvious to me from what I've read about iodine that I have all the classic symptoms of I deficiency. Why didn't he know this? I'm assuming it's because he was not taught this in med school. Now, I'm willing to admit that this may all be hype, but here's the thing--iodine is not an herb, baking soda, or some freak treatment--it's a mineral that our bodies need and most Americans at least do not get hardly any from our food--our soil is seriously deficient in it, seafood is fairly low in general and few of us eat seaweed. There is some in salt but not even enough to keep your thyroid full and the rate of thyroid cancers is growing as well. So, it may be hype, but I'm pretty well convinced by Dr. B's argument for the use of it and wish I'd known sooner. I have my daughters taking 12 mg doses of Iodoral.
Lightandwind, your supplement list looks different from mine, but I wanted to add to something you said: "These kind of studies give me hope." Yes, me too. I think the hardest part of cancer is that you feel so powerless when you get the dx and studies have shown that those who feel powerless over the situation are likely to die sooner, in poorer health, and with reduced quality of life. Now, you and I may be completely off base here, though this goes for anyone who reads and researches anything about their condition, not just alternatives, but when we do this we are taking back some of the power and control over our own health and that can only be a good thing. I think all of us here are likely to do better mentally because of it. You have to choose treatments that make sense to you b/c I think a big part of healing is the placebo effect so you have to choose treatments that align with your basic beliefs. I've always reached for an herbal remedy or supplement when I got sick before so I'm not going to stop that now.
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Also have a further question for lightandwind and momine: are you glad you did the ooph? I'm wondering b/c I was thinking of having that done but my BS discouraged it. She explained that I'd have to use harsher chemo, but that doesn't make sense to me. Are you both happy with the results?
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I ate a very great deal of grey salt, for the minerals, & it gave me eventually a form of meniers at the very least. interesting about bromide & floride, I drink spring water & the tap is from a well, but who knows what the landlords put in the tank that comes up to me. for a while they dumped in a gallon of chlorine until I objected strongly.
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Piper, I have nothing with flame retardant in my house and I have no wall-to-wall carpet, never did. 50 milligrams of iodine is a massive overdose, from the info I can find, and overdoses may well cause problems - serious ones. Even Dr. Mercola, who is certainly alternative, warns against such large doses: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archiv... The fact that the subject came up in the Lancet decades ago doesn't mean that a conspiracy is at work. It may also mean that studies were done that led nowhere. When I searched the other day, I did find some recent research on iodine and breast cancer out of Drexel.
The ooph - I have no idea what your BS is babbling about regarding "harsher" chemo. It seems to me you should ask her what that is all about. I had the ooph after I finished chemo and rads. I had a locally advanced cancer, so really bad news warranting aggressive treatment. I was close to menopause anyway. There is no family history of heart disease. My cancer was lobular, which responds better to AIs than to tamox, but to go straight on the AI, I had to get rid of the ovaries. The surgery itself was easy, causing only about 5-6 days of some discomfort and tiredness. It IS very strange to be hurled into total menopause overnight. That is the hardest part, but I adjusted.
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Lucy, I'm not a good one to ask about the amount of iodine, plus I haven't yet had my levels tested. I take anywhere from 2 to 6 drops of the lugols 5% per day now. According to mfwine's conversion, I guess that is somewhere between 10-30 mg per day. I started on iodine with the 2% lugols right after diagnosis. I literally could not tolerate even one drop of the 2% at that time and had to take a drop every other day, then one drop a day. Little by little, I kept adding drops as my body was ready to tolerate. It took a really long time though. Finally I was taking about 16-18 drops of the 2% lugols, always taking selenium, zinc, vita c & e and magnesium alongside. Then I went to the 5%.
Piper, I read you loud and clear. In regards to the ooph, it was a grueling decision, but I didn't see another sane way to go at this at the time. I was really uncomfortable in my body anyway from the estro dominance, puffy, heavy, sluggish, ick feeling, bleeding heavily, already perimeno, and so in some ways, after the ooph, I felt a bit better. The way it happened for me would probably not be the same as others as it was all part of an alternative strategy to remove the cancer cells from my body. Getting the ooph on the same day as getting the tumor out, in order to (as my onc said), shut down the factory, sent my body into kind of a shock. Then taking the femara, oh.. my poor liver was processing so much junk for the next 2-3 months, and then my tumor markers which were still 99 a month after surgery, took a dive. I was taking some alternatives and juicing a lot at the time too. I'm glad I did the ooph. For me it was the right choice. Having no hormones is not fun though. Life changes.. a lot. It's not easy. Feel like a different person, have to find yourself again, have to learn how to function as a changed person, kind of learn how to do everything all over again. That's all I can say.
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Oof, one more question girls. Sex drive? After ooph I mean. And momine, your dx is almost identical to mine it appears. The only thing I'm not sure of is the stage and I'll find out in 2 weeks after surgery. The MO and BS can't agree--BS says III and MO says II at the most.
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Piper, my sex drive is fine, but the equipment does not work the way it used to, so you have to sort of do hoo-hah PT, as I call it
At first it was shocking, but as I got used to the new configuration, things gradually improved.As for your stage, I love the docs arguing, when they have no way of knowing. It all depends how many nodes you have, if any, and how big the tumor really is (scans can be misleading in either direction).
Did you have chemo before surgery?
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I'm sure I had endrometriosis after I stopped taking birth control pills, hemhoraged once on the trailways bus no less. & before & after. & now that I've started eating canned beans I think it's come back a bit. not from my womb. but this climate without beans in the winter doesn't work well
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Pipers, sex drive is not what it used to be, but I can relate to how Momine describes it. Still,very very different. Desire, arousal, orgasm, are not as pleasurable or intense as before ooph.
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when i quit being autoerotic (in 1987) I began having multiple orgasms in sleep. for quite a few years now I have sexual pleasure in sleep. seldom. few times a year I judge. I've been totally celebat except for that since . no big deal now, quite difficult for some years
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Momine, no chemo before surgery--docs didn't agree about that either but breast surgeon ordered a full mx and I elected for BMX since I don't want to walk in circles. So, really, no need is there? MO made the final decision and got BS to agree while I was there. LOL on the hoo-hah PT--had to read that a couple of times but I think I got it.
Abigail, so you're saying that if I stop, um, pleasuring myself, I can have orgasms in my dreams? Well I think orgasms will be in my dreams from now on since I'm single. Yes, this is depressing since I'm on the edge of a relationship that we've put on hold for now--he lives 5 hours away.
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sad. but yes probably. in the jewish religion you have to marry so that you don't have sexual pleasure in sleep. that's cosidered a sin. but in the buddhist religion the only sex that's not a sin is sex in sleep
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piper, ok. Have you sought a second opinion? As for autoeroticism, it is a crucial part of the PT
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Momine, yes I have but opinions are all over the place. The first BS said lumpectomy only but I sought a second opinion b/c this is a smaller town and he doesn't specialize in BC surgery. The one in St. Louis, one of the best, said total mx and even though it was less of what I wanted to hear, I figured she has more experience so she will do it with the caveat to check first and see if it can be a lumpectomy. MO (the best in this smaller, pop 30K town), was pleasantly surprised and thought it would be so much worse from what the BS said, so I honestly have no idea what they will find. Meanwhile I'm trying every natural treatment I can, including the ketogenic diet, in hopes that I'll get there and they'll say, "What tumor?" Hey it's a dream but stranger things have happened. My pastor had a pancreatic tumor disappear on the way to surgery. I don't know if I'm just living in la-la land or whether it's a good thing b/c it keeps me happier and more focused on positive things but I have been in a better mood lately. And I'm losing weight. Win-win for me right at this moment.
I had guessed that was probably the homework for PT--does insurance cover the supplies? LOL, and I want a handsome physical therapist. ; ) Abigail, I think I don't want to be Jewish or Buddhist. LOL--interesting info though.
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I don't mean to burst your bubble but my very unscientific research tells me that most tumors are found to be larger post surgery. Because this happened to me, I started paying attention to what people were originally told and what they ended up with. Certainly not true in all cases but I think the pre-surgery mammos, US's, MRI's can only predict what's to be found. Surgery gives us all the real answer.
Best wishes on your surgery decision!
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Pipers, that's great that what you are doing is making you feel better, both mentally and physically. It would be really great if your tumor regressed before surgery. Certainly not unheard of. Good luck getting the handsome physical therapist!
Abigail, I've always been attracted to buddhism, but the sex thing would be a deal breaker!
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like birth control for catholics or alcohal with buddhists, it's not practiced usually, my teacher drank a toddy of whisky at bedtime. I don't drink but as you've probably noticed I'm an extremist. there are plenty of buddhist children
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Don't worry Mardibra, I'm prepared for just about anything. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst is my mantra these days. Anyway, I don't really get to make a decision b/c the BS in StL said mx and I said bmx then. Hopefully though, IF it's not as bad as she thinks, she'll do the lumpectomy--and I'm preparing myself mentally to wake up boobless.
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Light, my iodine progress was pretty much like yours. I think it took a year, adding drops, to get up to 50 mgs Lugol's Iodine. That was a long time ago. I now take the 50 mg every day.
There's a woman on the Iodine Workshop Facebook group who's taken 150 mg Lugol's iodine for two years to keep her breast cysts from coming back.
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Here is a new link for you all.
http://www.hacres.com/pdf/documents/research-Advances_in_Iodine_Nutrition.pdf
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Regarding the above link, it is written by Michael Donaldson, PhD. He gives no affiliations. Who is he?
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Here is another link. This study is about 14 years old.
http://www.donaldmiller.com/Iodine_For_Fibrocystic_Disease_MX04.pdf
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