Study n effectiveness of Iodine
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Okay, iodine ladies...let's keep the info sharing coming...love to learn from all of you who are taking iodine!!!
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Jojo, if someone posts an article that makes unreasonable claims, and another poster finds links to explain why those claims are unreasonable, then that is not "opinion." Also, if someone draws untenable or erroneous conclusions from some article, it is not "opinion" to point out such error. This forum is supposed to help us all, not be some sort of mass stampede of the blind leading the blind over a cliff in happy harmony.
Also, even when something is opinion, there is opinion that can be supported and opinion that can't be supported. For example, if I start claiming that the sky is fuchsia pink and 20 people post pictures and scientific articles to set me straight on that, then I can't get upset just because I have absolutely nothing to offer in support of my opinion that the sky is fuchsia pink.
This is the comp forum, which means that reality and science-based foundations for arguments are both acceptable and preferable. If people simply want to discuss their feelings, experiences and beliefs, the alternative forum is there for that purpose.
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Jojo, thank you, I do make an effort.
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Mods, with all due respect, this thread was started to discuss the benefits of iodine with regards to treating/preventing breast cancer. Thus far, the consensus of the medical community and some posters on this thread is that taking an iodine supplement is beneficial for iodine deficiency and not much else. This is a perfectly valid discussion given the subject matter, on a public discussion forum that, supposedly, welcomes discussion, opinions and the sharing of information.
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Jojo... If you don't have iodine deficiency, any dosage of supplemental iodine could cause the symptoms you are experiencing. Check with your doctor.
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Thanks for your concern, Selena.
FYI, Light has invited all future iodine discussion to be moved to her Alternative thread for the informed....
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Jojo, excellent idea, although people can presumably continue to offer info here.
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You're very welcome, Sunflowers. Thanks for taking my post in the spirit it was intended! I posted to share my opinions and information I've learned from my research, and I'm happy to discuss further or correct anything I've gotten wrong or misinterpreted. I really appreciate the information and thoughts others have provided here too and I find it so unfortunate that real discussion seems so unpopular here. I believe in transparency and honesty, and censorship does nothing to help any of us with our breast cancer treatment choices.
Back on topic, the original post referenced this study:
The very first sentence states, "The protective effects of iodine on breast cancer have been postulated
from epidemiologic evidence and described in animal models." (emphasis mine)Finding a possible effect by studying a hypothesis using lab rats and petri dishes is a far cry from claiming that iodine can be beneficial for breast cancer patients, or that the "Iodine Protocol" is useful, safe, or recommended. Same goes for many of the other articles and studies cited here and elsewhere - the underlying research often simply doesn't support the conclusions or claims being made.
LEF (Life Extension Foundation) is another paid article publisher/affiliate network marketing company who sells iodine and other supplements. Their articles are filled with exactly the kind of unsupported claims I'm talking about.
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SelenaWolf, I completely agree with you about the insistence that the supplement industry isn't in it for the money. I posted several examples in this thread a long time ago, that I thought illustrated the point well.
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the whole thread is full of "info sharing". Some of that info doesn't agree with the original post. Is that wrong? Are we ALL uninformed?
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Thank you again, thenewme, I appreciate your research and agree with you on the importance of transparency and HONESTY in all our communications. Moving this thread to another Forum, is fine with me, and I'll continue read this Forum for information which I can research for myself if needed. In this important situation, as in so many others, you, thenewme, have used your skill in doing research to benefit all of us.
That ostrich still makes me smile, and seems to be exemplified by the current exchange....thnewme has greatly helped us all see the light.
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My thanks too thenewme.
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Thenewme, you the boss!
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thenewme - you rock...your the best....wow....please give us more! (I will pay ya later).
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Mardi, yes, that struck me too, i.e. that I am only sharing the info and research I have found. Not sure why that is considered so bad. Anyway, I think this thread ended up containing a lot of solid info and I at least learned much. Until this discussion, it actually had not clicked for me that the doses advocated by Brownstein, Flechas et al., were so huge. In the past I had thought people were just confused about the abbreviations for micro- and milligrams.
The other thing I find odd in many discussions is that on whatever issue it is, but this iodine issue is a good illustration, there is a huge volume of evidence going one way, and then there are 3 rogue doctors or naturopaths or chiros or whatever going the opposite way. Then people insist that the 3 rogues have a direct pipeline to truth and everyone else is a shill, confused and part of the big pharma conspiracy, thus rejecting out of hand anything that contradicts the 3 rogues. Sometimes I find that downright rude really, especially when I have spent time, effort and goodwill researching whatever the 3 rogues came up with.
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Momine, it is kind of like the Pauling stuff on Vitamin C. It has been soundly refuted, and he was actually disgraced, but they still quote him like he is God.
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agreed Momine.
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Melissa, yes, that is true. It also puts it firmly in the realm of "belief," rather than any kind of fact-based position. Perhaps that is why people get so offended when reality-based arguments are entered into the discussion. I can sort of see that. As a Christian, I am not impressed either when people demand that I provide scientific proof for the existence of God or try to give me scientific reasons for the non-existence of God. It is just that, personally, I do not approach cancer treatment the same way I approach the care of my soul.
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Wow, I have to say, I found some of the posts from last night strangely gleeful! If you girls were in the NFL you'd be fined for celebrating in the endzone. While I appreciate Momine's valid questions and think it is valuable to question sources as thenewme did, I found a lot of your comments (and the ostrich) to be overkill.
I hope we don't throw the baby out with the bath water. There does seem to be research showing iodine has a beneficial effect on breast health and can help prevent or suppress breast cancer. At the same time iodine intake in the U.S. has been falling in the U.S. in the last few decades. The question is, how much iodine is adequate or optimal? For someone like me, who gets very little iodine in my diet (almost entirely vegan), supplementing is probably a very good idea. At the very least I will be taking the 150 micrograms RDA.
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Melissa, I agree, and think, with the social media available today, it's much worse. The "self-referencing" is a real money maker. Consider the volume, and the product may not be very expensive, but the VOLUME, and the books, and the increased ad rate on each website. Don't think it's an apples to orange comparing it to the any other large industry, because in the case of the few individuals THEY are each the recipients of the money, not a large number of employees, shareholders, etc. It is actually very concentrated wealth.
Just look at the number of websites now on breast cancer - and the large amounts of salary a few people are paying themselves. The non-profit industry, just like the natural/self help, is no different from any other industry, trying to maximize the amount of money they take in. At last in some cases, there is value created for the effort.
As Momine notes, those large amounts of iodine ingestion, don't seem safe, and it's a valuable thing to read outside the "iodine MLM loop" to learn that. The supplement industry is huge, and profitable, adding the word "natural" doesn't make it safe.
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Falleaves, we are only commenting on the fact that there are people here who want to shut you up if you say anything that that at all contradicts what they want to believe, whether there is any basis in science or not. This is not the alternative forum where no questioning is allowed.
I too am very interested about finding anything that reduces my risk, which is estimated to be at least 30%, since I have some issues that make me not want to take aromasin. I am not, however, going to start taking a bunch of stuff that is not scientifically validated from reliable sources.
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So, my question is, given what we know at this point:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10710195
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16025225
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18827038
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19500378
why hasn't there been a study of iodine supplementation (below toxic levels) in women at risk of breast cancer or with breast cancer? Iodine may be in the same category as vitamin D in it's effect on breast cancer, yet I do not see the same level of interest.
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i can't answer your question, but until they do I won't do it.
I am a really serious cook/baker. I, like many cooks, started using kosher, rather than iodized table salt, some years ago. I have been trying to use regular iodized salt again at least part of the time. Until I see more evidence that is about as far as I am prepared to go. You do know that iodized salt was introduced to prevent the very common problem of thyroid goiter many years ago, right? The tiny amount in iodized salt virtually cured this problem in our population, which tells me a very tiny amount may be sufficient.
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I understand your point, MelissaDallas, but the amount of iodine necessary to prevent goiter may still be well short of what is necessary to promote optimal breast health. Just like with vitamin D deficiency. Rickets is the most obvious manifestation of deficiency, but there many, much more subtle, effects.
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Melissa, I expect no one can answer the question because we don't know what research is being done on human tissue. The lab work was on rats. It is much MUCH more complex dealing with an "at risk" population, especially when there is no scientific data about what "at risk" ( other than BRAC, etc) is yet known. I don't accept any implication that the lack of published research on human beings is any kind of a "conspiracy." There are so many factors, and certainly no "yes or no" answers, to all the factors in developing breast cancer. Complexity. The only certainty we have is that there is no "magic bullet" - no one "answer" to this complex issue.
I can only say I have donated tissue, and blood, for research, without knowing exactly what it is being studied for. I am sure hundreds of thousands of women being treated at major cancer centers in the world have done this too.
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Fall, further up in this thread, I referenced some studies done over the years at Drexel by a Doctor Bernard Eskin. He seems to be one of the more serious and persistent investigators of the role of iodine in breast disease. I have added more seaweed to my diet in view of what I have read so far.
I am hoping that the Drexel team continues its work and that we may know more in the near future.
One of Dr. Eskin's studies found therapeutic effect (but in fibrocystic disease, not cancer) at doses equivalent to 1mg a day per 27.5 pounds of body weight. But as far as I can tell, in the context of cancer, we don't have much firm ground for making decisions.
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falleaves, "may" is the operative word. One example is all the glee over large doses of antioxidants and especially Vitamin E. Turns out that people who take large doses have worse cancer outcomes and now MOs are telling people NOT to take it.
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Melissa....Can I see the studies and proof for the statement above concerning antioxidants?
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Momine, yes it was one of Dr. Eskin's studies that kicked off this thread. There seem to be a substantial number of studies of the antiproliferative and apoptotic effects of iodine on breast cancer cells. What DOES it take to get a study in humans?
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