Diet and Lifestyle
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Thank you ladies! I'm willing to try it all. I'm unsure of exactly what I want to do, but I'm willing to try what it ever it takes!! SA
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Hello again all and good morning,
I'm trying to catch up on my reading in this forum, but a few questions/thoughts come to mind.
I see sugar mentioned as a culprit in cancer. Does anyone have studies that back this up? I have only read articles that say that too much sugar can cause weight gain, which can, in turn, lead to poor health/cancer (plus the fact that all cells need sugar to grow). I have not found any published studies about sugar causing cancer cells to grow. One thing I have completely avoided, though, is any type of artificial sweetener. Those are scary.
The vegetarian lifestyle is interesting to me, but I'm not there yet. First working on eliminating red meat, but it's a challenge in a house full of meat-eaters. I do most of the cooking around here, and I don't want to be cooking twice. But we do eat *less* beef than we used to, so that has to be a good thing. We eat salads and veggies every day, and I'm trying to reduce the amount of pasta and other carbs.
I am fairly sure that there was a connection between my periods returning at age 56 (after *almost* getting to menopause) and my bc diagnosis. I went 10 months without a period, then had 3 all in a time span of 6 months. Then my mammogram picked it up. Either the tumor was fueling the cycles, or my ovaries were fueling the tumor. I can't wait to have them removed, but my MO wants me to wait until my body has fully healed. She mentioned spring. For now, it's tamoxifen.
I got a lecture about getting more exercise, and I felt like saying when the temperature falls below 90 degrees that will happen. My doctor hasn't mentioned that I should give up wine, so that will be the last thing to go!Cheers,
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Princess Buttercup - regarding sugar, yes, I agree that as far as I can see it's primarily sugar leading to weight gain and the risk (estrogenic & otherwise) that carrying extra fat has for us. There was some stuff about how cancer cells light up more on glucose contrast scans but I believe that's just part of the cancer biology - cancer actually diverts nutrition from other cells. That's why advanced cancer patients often cannot keep weight on; all the nutrition is going to feed the cancer. But the corollary to that is you cannot starve the cancer because you'd have to starve all your own cells too. The tumor cells seem be able to signal to get the nutrition preferentially - I think that's what some of the scientists are working on turning off.
Re alcohol - late last year ASCO released guidelines on alcohol and cancer, urging physicians to understand and communicate the risks to patients. They noted that "the majority of providers did not ask their patients about alcohol consumption, and most were unaware of alcohol as a carcinogen"
Alcohol is causally linked to breast cancer even at moderate consumption levels which is defined for women as up to one 5oz/150mL glass of wine per day. (Over 5oz of wine per day is defined as heavy. They also note people probably don't accurately report the volume and number of their drinks)
"The increase in breast cancer–specific mortality or risk of recurrence has been observed with moderate to heavy levels of alcohol drinking.60,61 Li et al showed that, among women with estrogen receptor–positive breast cancer, consumers of seven or more drinks per week versus none had a 90% increased risk of asynchronous contralateral breast cancer,62 which was higher than the 30% increased risk observed in a multicentered case-control study.63 "
They note there is still lots of research to be done but bottom line right now is that alcohol is recognized as a carcinogen.
http://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/JCO.2017.76.1...& a Scientific American summary https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alcohol...
One other thing is of course that alcohol has a fair bit of sugar & calories in it. That 5oz/150mL glass is about 122 pretty much empty calories. This is actually mostly why I stopped drinking years ago. I'd rather have a small pastry or some dark chocolate every few days than a drink. My metabolism is such that I need few calories to hold my weight steady, even when I exercise pretty hard, so I need to 'spend' my calories carefully.
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Princess Buttercup those are good questions and observations. The research around cancer and nutrition is often conflicting. I was interested to read that sucrose ( refined white sugar) is not causally carcinogenic but affects insulin levels and weight gain, both of which are linked to cancer.
Here is a study that links consumption of sweets with breast cancer:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4109805/
“In summary, our results suggest that high consumption of sweet foods, particularly desserts, may be positively associated with breast cancer risk, and the effect may be most pronounced among leaner and more physically active women. The implications of these findings may be that the greatest reduction in breast cancer risk involves regular physical activity (38) and maintenance of a healthy weight (39) combined with a diet low in sweets and desserts. These results lend additional evidence to the role of insulin in breast carcinogenesis and may highlight an area for potential intervention.“
There is an explanation here of how sugar affects insulin levels and the relationship to cancer:
https://www.oncologynutrition.org/erfc/healthy-nutrition-now/sugar-and-cancer/
“Much research shows that it is sugar's relationship to higher insulin levels and related growth factors that may influence cancer cell growth the most, and increase risk of other chronic diseases. Many types of cancer cells have plenty of insulin receptors, making them respond more than normal cells to insulin's ability to promote growth. ....
Studies of glycemic index and cancer risk are mixed, but do suggest a high GI diet may increase cancer risk, particularly in individuals who are overweight and/or sedentary (inactive). Both excess weight and lack of physical activity are associated with an increased risk of insulin resistance. And high GI diets have been linked to increased risk of digestive and hormonally related cancers: colorectal, liver, pancreatic, breast, endometrial and ovarian."
So bottom line, white sugar does not directly cause cancer but it is wise to keep consumption low.
Moth, that is a good explanation of why you gave up alcohol to leave some calories for occasional sweets. It seems we need to choose the “treat" that we love the most, but not stress out by avoiding them all.
And keep moving!
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/upshot/alcohol-health-risks-study-worry.html
According to a meta analysis published recently only 4 in 100,000 people who consume a drink a day may have a problem caused by the drinking. This number increased to 977 at two drinks per day. For the past 10 years I've had my drink, sometimes two, and am still NED. But I believe we all have different responses to alcohol, sugar, pollution, etc. and I took the risk based on the low inflammatory and low estrogen environment my alcohol intake is swimming in. I'm also betting that exercise and diet contribute to a differential response. Plus there are benefits to drinking red wine which may, I pray, in my individual case, outweigh the possible harms. I probably should cut down just to reduce calories.
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Cancerous cells, due to their high metabolisms, uptake sugar 30 times faster than normal cells. There are different types of sugar molecules. The sugar we put in food is sucrose and it is made up of two sugars, glucose and fructose. Fructose is the primary sugar found in fruit and cancerous cells have a particular affinity for it.
You can pull up the studies of the role of sugar in cancer by going to scholar.google.com and typing in "sugar" and "cancer" but understand that these studies are not set in stone, are often done in non human animals or petri dishes, are often done on specific breast cancer cell lines which may respond differently than your own unique breast cancer even if they have the same receptors, and studies often contradict each other due to these things and other variables.
Generally though, sugar is implemented in the development and spread of cancer, however, as moth pointed out, all of your cells need sugar.
Rather than trying to avoid sugars all together, the conventional wisom is to avoid spikes in blood sugar by choosing foods that have a lower glycemic index and lower glycemic load (vegetables, whole grains, proteins) than foods that have a higher glycemic index and glycemic load (refined grains, certain fruits).
Concerning fruits, as the primary sugar in fruit is fructose, it might not be a bad idea to limit fruit consumption if you have active cancer in your body. That might be one reason your medical team advised this.
But there is a reason for some individuals who don't have active cancer to limit fruits. While fruit contains a lot of vitamins, fiber, and traces of beneficial compounds, they are still nature's dessert in that they contain a lot of sugar compared to other natural foods, but because they exist in the minds of many as healthy, people often wrongly take that to mean that they can gorge themselves on fruit, and that can cause blood sugar spikes and an excess of calories.
Concerning the proteins, most nutritionists and dieticians will also recommend limiting foods high in saturated fat, so advise proteins that are low in it (skinless poultry, certain types of fish).
I will add that while I am not a nutritionist or dietician, I also think it's best to limit fried foods even if they are low in saturated fat or cholesterol. Most who advise against eating a lot of fried food these days will cite that they are more likely to contain carcinogenic compounds such as acrylamide. This is true, particularly fried potatoes. However as someone who already has cancer, that is not my concern at the moment. My concern is the fatty acids in the oil and their role in metastasis.
Oils are composed of fatty acids. Certain fatty acids, such as palmitic acid, are strongly implemented in metastasis. The role of oils and cancer progression is complex with some studies showing oils like fish oil, flaxseed oil, and certain olive oils to have inhibitory effects...it's thought that the ratios of fatty acids is what matters and not the absolute quantity of a particular fatty acids, almost all of the cooking oils suitable for frying...soybean oil, palm (fruit) oil (avoid!), corn oil, canola oil (possibly better than the others though), vegetable oil (a blend of the others), often contain "bad" ratios of fatty acids.
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Does this group follow a specific diet?
I use a ketogenic diet with some fasting thrown in.
I'm also looking into potentially starting deuterium depleted water to help at the mitochondria level.
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I think a great place to start with nutrition is to read a little bit of doctor Greger and try to get his daily dozen. Even the doctor doesn't get all of those things everyday but and trying to eat more healthy food like he recommends it crowds out the less healthy food. I don't necessarily believe that it's essential to be vegetarian it's more likely if meat was only 10% of your diet and vegetables and really healthy high-fiber grains made up the rest of your menu I am sure that there would be incredible health benefits. An addition there would be no need to take a B12 supplement.
Here are the lifestyle changes I made to get the most benefit for the nutrition.
Get broccoli and the Brassisca family into my diet. I eat broccoli l. I eat cabbage I make broccoli sprouts which are dirt cheap and so easy to make on Sprinkle them on salads even my kids love them.
I bought a grinder just for nuts seeds and spices it's just a coffee grinder I just don't put coffee in it. I try to get one to 4 tablespoons of ground flax a day. For me I just stir some in my yogurt and I have a goal to figure out how to make a healthy flax seed muffin for work. The study is pretty good on that for breast cancer and I think it's worth the effort.
Mushrooms have a very very good track record as well so they have to be cooked I try to get at least one mushroom somewhere in my diet everyday.
Soy I still don't think is worth adding to your diet if you did not consume it before breastcancer the studies are mixed it helps women if they have eaten it their whole life prevent reoccurrence. But in animal studies if you have had breast cancer and then add soy to the diet it's significantly increased the risk of reoccurrence.
And then finally I've made peace with beans and alternative grains slowly with recipes that I can eat. It took about six weeks for my gut to handle beans but now I don't have gas and I can eat them regularly.
My family is not vegetarian but they're used to me eating pretty healthy with lots of vegetables so for now I just start a vegetarian dish and make it for myself.
I make some traditional pasta tortilla rice. Then I put a second dish on the table that has meat and my family can choose either one. This way I always have something healthy to eat and since I'm making small quantities of the vegetarian dish I'm not wasting a lot of money.
To get my family to eat more healthy. I also put some containers of different vegetables on the table and healthy grains and fiber sources. We have big salads with broccolisproutsalad spinach it's very easy for me to get my kids to eat that and my husband enjoys it as well.
My health is so poor I need to put my energy in my survivorship towards myself. Not two words converting my family. I cook meat like hamburger chicken turkey Etc and just storm in little bags in the fridge and then I add them to meals that I'm giving them. If I were to push my Whole Foods vegan diet on to them they would reveal I would have problems and I would have to think about their needs when really I need to think about my own right now.
I am somewhat desperate because my liver is really taxed from all the treatment and surgeries my memory is so poor I can't concentrate to keep my career pain is a great motivator but it's not going to be enough to motivate everybody in my life so I just focus on myself.
Maybe some of these tips might be helpful to somebody else.
Sorry guys I am posting this from my phone I'll edit it when I get home on Tuesday and I'll also post that ingredient or a picture of the tube so you guys can look into the estrogen estas a cream I use
The Estriol cream says ESTRIOL 0.5MG/GM plus vitamin E 200IU/VAG30
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zogo - I think we're a varied bunch here.
I'm vegan & have been for many years now (my whole family is). There's no changing that because it's an ethical decision for me.
I'm also a pretty high carb vegan just cause that's what works for me.
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Thanks all. I still haven't seen an actual study about a causal relationship between sugar and cancer growth. Not that I eat a lot of sugar, but if I can have a glass of wine (which has some sugar) once or twice a week then I'm a happier person. I once had to do a food trial for migraines and gave up everything from dairy to balsamic vinegar. I have never been so miserable (outside of the chemo and radiation ordeals)! I'm not a broccoli lover, and my husband can't it either. (He is being treated for Multiple Myeloma and Amyloidosis.)
I'm giving D3 a try, eating less meat, and getting back to my beloved swimming pool. It takes a cool and crisp fall day to get me to walk, and my doc tells me that I have the bones of a 20 year old!
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PrincessButtercup:
Are you looking for a study that indicates high consumption of sugar causes cancer or a study that implements sugar in the proliferation or metastasis of cancer?
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Does anyone know a good brand of flaxseed oil for culinary use? Apparently fresh flaxseed oil is supposed to have a mild nutty flavor and should not be the least bit bitter. I've tried Barlean's, the Whole Foods brand, Flora, and Solgar Earthsource.
The first bottle of Barlean's and the Wholefood's brand started out with a very slight bitterness which grew stronger over the week, indicating it was rancid.
I bought a second bottle of Barlean's along with Flora flaxseed oil today. The Flora flaxseed oil is bottled with nitrogen to prevent oxidation and thus rancidity but the oil in these two bottles was more bitter than the oil in the first two bottles.
I bought some Solgar Earthsource flaxseed oil last week, also bottled with nitrogen. The Solgar Earthsource had essentially no taste or scent and was significantly lighter in color than the other brands of flaxseed oil (pale yellow as opposed to golden yellow). I started to become suspicious that it's actually flaxseed oil so being flaxseed oil apparently goes bad very easily, I have been trying to make a sample of the Solgar flaxseed oil go bad by exposing it to oxygen and letting it sit at room temperature. It hasn't. It just has a stale vegetable oil taste now.
I'm not sure if the Barlean's and Flora is rancid due to a problem with the brands themselves or imroper storage during shipping.
I was going to try Spectrum brand flaxseed oil but they also process peanut oil in that facility and I am avoiding peanuts.
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WC3- Either one. I have done a few searches and have only seen articles which say that sugar could be connected to weight gain, hence poor health in general. But that seems kind of obvious to me. I have read statements here about a sugar-cancer connection, but the real issue (if I'm understanding this correctly) is that there are good reasons to keep weight down after a cancer diagnosis. This would mean that many things are helpful, including exercise, a healthy diet, less red meat, and sweets and wine in moderation (if someone is so inclined toward those things).
I haven't found a study that says that sugar or gluten actually cause cancer, but it makes good sense to me to limit some of these things and do what I can do avoid really bad things.
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PrincessButtercup:
I don't know if there is a single study that shows a strong causal relationship between sugar intake and cancer risk but it's well known that cancerous cells often have abnormal glucose metabolisms...F18-FDG PET scans exploit this fact to image cancer. The cells uptake it rapidly. The question is, what do they do with glucose and other sugars?
Here are two studies I pulled up using Google Scholar.
Fructose as a carbon source induces an aggressive phenotype in MDA-MB-468 breast tumor cells.
Sugar Boosts Mammary Tumor Growth, Metastasis in Mice Study
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I'm hoping to generate a bit of conversation about Holistic Medicine and Treatment.
I started out with a Ductal Papilloma, which I have had 3 times in the past, and had it removed, as had been done in the past. The Biopsy came back benign so I was not concerned at all. When they removed this cyst, cancer cells showed up, as reported on the Pathology Report. I am 57 and have known my entire adult life that if I ever got cancer, I would chose an alternate method of curing it. The surgeon wanted to take more breast tissue, hoping to bring clear margin results, and as well, take lymph nodes for testing. Then the follow-up, if clear margins, would be Radiation, Chemo, and Hormone Therapy! If the margins were not clear, he stated that my options would be another lumpectomy or a Right Side Mastectomy. If I had cancer cells in my lymph node, I would require a Mastectomy and Chemo. I have turned down all of these treatment. It is not that I am against a Mastectomy with reconstruction, as surgery does not scare me, but the therapies proposed afterwards are not going to happen!
This journey for me began the day I received my cancer diagnosis. Even though my Pathology Report was done on the 21st of April, 2018, I was not made aware of the results until May the 9th, 3 weeks later! That put me 3 weeks behind on making the changes to my diet and lifestyle that I felt that I would need to make. Even if I was to consider surgery, which I will if the cancer doesn't shrink, I would have to prepare my body's health to withstand the procedure.
I am wondering if there are any other people on this site that are as strongly convicted on Naturopathic and Alternative means of healing? This particular forum is titled "Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment" so I figured there may be some people that want to share some of their thoughts and convictions, along with any suggestions on what they believe can help to beat this disease.
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this is worthy of a stand alone thread because it could easily go to 20 pages. I have read alor about this and have tons of ideas but it would wind this thread off on a tangent. Some areas you might want to look up are Victor longo and fasting mimiking diet and Dr gregger and his cancer food suggestions.
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L-O-R-I - I think perhaps you might want the Alternative therapies forum which is for modalities being done instead of standard treatment such as chemo, rads & hormone therapy https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/121
The complementary forum is described as "Complementary medicine refers to treatments that are used WITH standard treatment. Holistic medicine is a term used to describe therapies that attempt to treat the patient as a whole person." This thread was started by a user who has since left the board but it was meant to explore evidence based lifestyle and diet changes which would support our standard treatments.0 -
Well I just rejoined and got back in the pool yesterday. I was sore for several hours (mostly from using those muscles near one of the incisions), but have to say that I slept better and woke up less stiff than I have since starting Tamoxifen. Still taking Gabapentin at night, too, but that swim felt great. Will try to keep this going.
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Yay Princess Buttercup! Soon you will be queen of the pool. Do monitor your incision area. I noticed some soreness with my dips in the ocean this summer but perhaps it eases with regular exercise. I wish I could swim better - if I can't touch the bottom, I need to use a foam noodle
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Since my Diagnosis I am considering changing my diet to a mostly plant based vegan diet. (I'll still have treats every now and again once it is okay to.) And I plan on getting some excercise more often. I'm making a total lifestyle change.
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RyansMomma, I’m sorry this happened to you at such a young age, glad you were persistent in getting diagnosis and treatment. There are some great food ideas on this thread. A good book is Breasts the Owners Manual by Kristi Funk. Whether plant based or paleo, I think the main thing is lots of vegetables (esp. broccoli, kale, cabbage) and little or no sugar. Best to you
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I am reading The China Study by T. Colin Campbell and Thomas M Campbell. It has powerful information!! It's also very readable. The main take away is a Plant Based Whole Foods diet is the way to go. I wish I had known about it 20 years ago. Nevertheless, this is my goal going forward.
It also talks about high cholesterol being tied to Breast cancer and the amazing benefits of a high fiber diet.
Edited to add: animal foods increases the estrogen in our bodies and plant foods reduce it. The fiber from plant foods helps our bodies remove estrogen and cholesterol.
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RyansMomma - we have a whole separate thread dedicated to plant - based & vegan resources & support. Hope you'll join us there
https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/58/topics...0 -
I have read the whole thread now and am following you - so much useful information! And so sorry the previous thread got lost. I had it bookmarked very soon after I found this whole forum. And then it was just gone, what a pity.
I will need a lot, a LOT strenght doing some of the changes I need.... The strenght I fear am now missing, my chemo not yet half finished. At least the DD-AC is over.
I want to start moving and exercizing more... and I want to move further on with veggies and generally add more plant-based. But I'm a meat eater and am happy enough to have sources for completelly pasture-fed and naturally raised meat - I see it from my window mostly, or can go and see it on a bike. Eggs I get from my family, the chicks happy in a yard. So I guess my plan for now is just to eat less meat. No change with eggs, I think. I love salmon.
The biggest problem for me will be in reducing sugar. I don't think I eat too much of it, in fact I am always being looked upon as the freak-mother who doesn't let even her kids to have sweetened drinks. But I definitelly love to bake cakes (reduce the sugar considerably) and love sweets. Chocolate etc. Don't know what to do about this 🤨. I don't have as much sugar as the average people, not even half of average. But that still needs to be cut way down.
I think I gravitate towards the meditterranean diet... With some eggs added. Don't know... The exercise and movement being probably no.1 in importance for me.
What do you all think? Would you care to add some suggestions? But not too strickt please 😀 I'm still learning about this crappy BC world and it's really too much for one chemo-brain.
Editting to add my status quo: my weight now is OK, BMI 19,5. I like walking and discovered just this week I have some 11-14000 steps a day.
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JaBoo- congrats on the progress you have made. It's awfully difficult to implement changes while in the midst of chemo so good job with the steps you've made.
My suggestion is to make changes slowly. Try cutting down on meat for a while and see how you feel. Once you feel better, it will be easier to make changes. When I was finished with chemo it took several months for me to feel better, but I took comfort in that I was recovering from it little by little. Have your taste buds been affected by chemo? Mine were affected so I tried to eat well during chemo but did not always.
Another way to get inspired is to read information on whole foods - I'm reading The China Study and it's very encouraging. I also watched the film "Forks Over Knives" on Netflix and that was powerful.
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JaBoo - I cut all processed foods, including sugar and flour, out of my diet for a while. It was the easiest diet to stick to because once you're eating whole, plant-based foods, you get off the blood sugar rollercoaster and stop craving those things. I still got hungry but it wasn't like before when I'd get hangry and couldn't concentrate until I ate something. I now eat a small amount of vegan chocolate every day and I eat flour when I make pasta, and once I'm healed from surgery those will be the only processed foods I eat (I'm currently eating protein shakes because I'm shooting for 100g of protein a day and shakes are the only way I can hit that). Good luck!
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To be honest cutting the animal products is one thing but do it in a way that you are thoughtful. I tried being vegan ...true vegan for 3 years in college. I did it all wrong no B12 very limited foods. Nothing with green vegetables. I would eat, some processed vegan cheese
To start don't worry about eliminating meat and eggs just cut back to say one a day and make it with a lot of vegetables. Really enjoy it. Then focus on adding beans,greens,broccoli garlic ,good whole grains, berries. All the good quality stuff.
For chocolate try to get where you can enjoy the dark stuff. It's good for the heart.
Take 6 months to do this and your body will thank you. Then reevaluate.
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Welcome JaBoo. You are on the right track. In fact, you are ahead because of your low BMI - no fat to make estrogen. You don't want to lose any more weight though especially while recovering from chemo.
There are different ways to cut back on meat and sugar. You can try eating half portions of what you ate before, or eating the same amount half the time by skipping days. This is an easy way to start.
I love to bake occasionally but only eat one piece then give it to family or freeze the rest. I just keep remembering that sugar is so bad for me.
Best wishes for finishing and recovering from your chemo!
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just curious has anyone heard of the Gerson diet? It’s worth a look if you’re interested in a drastic diet change/natural treatment. My mother in law has used this diet on and off over the years to help with her lupus and I’ve known 2 women who have used similar treatments for treating their cancers. For us as a family we use the juicing part of it just as a while a way of staying healthy but also as a way of boosting the immune system whenever germs are floating around. For me personally i like this diet because I’m terrible with eating veggies. This allows me to get an huge boost of veggies that I otherwise wouldn’t be able to choke down.
We invested in the angel juicer and it’s lasted us about 11 years now. The nice thing about juicing is that you can also add in other things like turmeric, apple cider vinegar, etc. I even add in cloves of garlic and hunks of fresh ginger to be juiced.The amount that you can pack into one juice far surpasses what I would use in a meal.
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I juice vegetables whenever I want to significantly up my nutrient intake. It would be impossible to ingest as many whole vegetables as I juice because the fiber content becomes problematic. Typically, my preference is to just eat the vegetables.
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