Diet and Lifestyle
Comments
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Pi-Xi, strong is a great look. You know your body best so don't let your sister get you flustered. Focusing on abs is also smart. My onc always checks out that area although I'm not sure if he's feeling for mets or fat. Maybe both. I also exercise everyday. I've seen an exercise physiologist and everything is A-OK. My upper body could use more work but it seems this is true for most people. So I'm trying to up the weights I lift on the machines. I also do bodyweight but the machines are simpler for me. Kettlebells are also good and I seem to have progressed from 5 kilos to 8 kilos without problems for some of the routines.
DearLife, I had to look up boating as I wasn't sure if this was different from sailing. DH is an avid sailor and is trying to get me to go on another trip, this time to the Ionian Sea in Greece. He says there is not too much wind there. I want a tranquil place like in your pics.
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Thank you, Heidihill! That's encouraging. I do some upper body weights, but mainly I'm using weights to develop my glutes as there's nothing else there anymore. Leg day? Yup, i feel that in my glutes. 😊 I do quite a few push-ups as well in my routines. Three years ago my heavy weights were 4 lbs now they are 15s. (I use more for my leg workouts.) I've made some progress! Trying to temper that with looking way too overdeveloped. I also looked sculpted even when I was weak.
My next project is to tackle stress. I have made some progress in that regard, but sometimes think that being calm is so contrary to my nature that fighting to be that way causes more harm than just going with the stress reaction!
Keep up the good work!
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Heidihill we used to sail but now have a trawler, a 1973 Grand Banks, all wood. I can see so much more from the cabin in the powerboat and we're not exposed to sun and wind all day. We found with the sailboat that there wasn't much wind in the summer so we were motoring anyway. But mostly I like just anchoring in a quiet bay for a couple of days. The water was 80 degrees where we were and lovely for swimming. The Ionian Sea sounds wonderful and I am sure it is warm too.
Pi-Xi I am impressed with your workouts! I must use the free weights more often. I am doing planks for my abs and finally you can see a bit of muscle there. It was hiding under my extra “layers" before. I'll never have a six pack though!
Managing stress can be a challenge. I wish I could get into a meditating habit but too often find myself distracted. But I have learned to say no to things that will cause me anxiety when I have the option. I know what triggers my stress (usually difficult people) and avoid it when I can. Although some stress is inevitable, I findit is often possible to change the situation as well as modify my reaction to it.
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I have been watching Chris Wark's Square One program this week. Thinking that some positive affirmation couldn't hurt, for the last couple days I have been saying "I am healthy. I am healed. I am well." Today over lunch my DH says "Add obnoxious to that list and you're one out of four!"
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂0 -
I am reading this thread with interest ( so far I am only on page 12)
I wanted to chime in and ask if I could bring my green tea and sit here at this table? I love the ideas and suggestions. Such a positive place here on the board.
I found Doctor Gregger through his link regarding Broccoli sprouts I am eating a whole food diet to see if it can help resolve my neuropathy and liver marker issues. After Chemo ,Herceptin, A total hysterectomy, Tamoxifen and many many surgeries I have watched my blood markers go crazy with elevated liver markers, high cholesterol, glucose, along with unwanted weight gain . Treatment was not kind to me
Its nice to see some more creative approaches to healthy foods and I enjoy the problem solving here in this thread.
For my part I have more questions than advice. My food program consists of nuts, matcha, a bunch of vegetables stirred around with lentils or beans and some kind of grain. I am working on consuming the daily dozen along with mushrooms, matcha, oats ( Beta Glucan), high soluble fiber and continuing exercise.
I still do not know what to do about
Vitamins and supplements. I am MTHFR and so I do B shots and B12. Other than that vitamin D and K2 occasionally. Calcium I get from my nut milk.
Soy ( I didn't consume a lot before Breast Cancer and I have since read that it is not a great idea to start if you didn't consume it before.)
Flax seed ( my dietician really wants me to consume this but my oncology dietician said no more than 1TB a day)
Matcha ( its probably the only green tea I can enjoy but I worry about the toxicity from japan)
Cocoa ( want to consume it for the antioxidants but worried about the cadmium) Right now it is just an occasional treat.
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Hi exercise_guru & welcome! Yes, pull up a chair & come sip tea with us!
re your questions, well I can share what I'm doing right now:
supplements - I do a multi just because, and a B12 because I'm vegan; Vit D in the winter (I'm in Canada)soy - I consumed it before & continue to have soy milk and tofu.
flax - I have it on my oatmeal every morning. I have blueberries with it too - I get my Greger's daily dozen berries in early in the day
I buy Northern Edge brand because flax is also susceptible to heavy metal contamination; Northern Edge is grown at high latitude in Canada where the soils don't have heavy metals. green tea- I drink plain green tea as I don't like matcha; I stick to organic & fair trade & keep it 1-2 small cups/day
cocoa - I've read that the EU is putting new limits which will come into effect in 2019. At that time it might be worth it to seek out products sold there. In the meantime, again fair trade and organic and only small amounts.
I hope your neuropathy & liver issues get sorted out. These treatments take a toll, don't they...0 -
Pi-Xi thanks for the reminder about affirmations. I think we have to soothe ourselves sometimes andthe ritual of affirmations can calm the mind and reduce stress. While not a magic cure, it is all part of a healthier lifestyle.
I have been reading about the placebo effect and I think affirmations fit into that. Here is an excerpt from a Harvard article on the placebo effect:
How can you give yourself a placebo besides taking a fake pill? Practicing self-help methods is one way. "Engaging in the ritual of healthy living — eating right, exercising, yoga, quality social time, meditating — probably provides some of the key ingredients of a placebo effect," says Kaptchuk.
While these activities are positive interventions in their own right, the level of attention you give can enhance their benefits. "The attention and emotional support you give yourself is often not something you can easily measure, but it can help you feel more comfortable in the world, and that can go a long way when it comes to healing."
https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect
Exercise Guru welcome to our thread! I am sorry you have had such a hard road. Many of us are experimenting with new approaches and I am interested in your exercise advice. What is your regimen?
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Welcome Exercise_Guru. I'm a big time reader, seldom poster, but I sympathize with your neuropathy issues. My MO prescribed gabepentin for my chemo induced neuropathy. I said, 'NO, no more drugs.' My son is a PA for an orthapedic surgeon and he suggested 500mg of Vit C and 500mg of B Complex. That's one of their recommendations for nerve regeneration after surgery. I've been taking it for 3 weeks and neuropathy is 90% gone.
As far as diet - keep reading the pages on this thread - there is a lot of good advice, recipes, inspiration. Intelligent, well informed group. Be patient - making healthy food takes more time.....(thank you to whoever sent the cartoon about 'we spend 5 years preparing healthy food so we can live 5 more years'. LOL) You have to keep a sense of humor with this 'new normal' we call life!
In the mean time - Chin up-Enjoy Life!! Be a Warrior - not a Worrier!
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Dear Life - gorgeous photo of your vacation! It looks so relaxing and peaceful. So interesting about your idea of the placebo effect. I will have to find some reading material on that.
Pi-Xi - so great that you are watching the Chris Wark videos - I am, too. Nice affirmation. Part way into the videos, it dawned on me that much of what he was describing was for newly diagnosed cancer patients. At this point, I am certainly not going to spend an hour juicing vegetables to drink all day long and haul it to work so I wonder what he does everyday now that he is just trying to stay well. The supplements he suggested are a bit overwhelming - so much I have never heard of and will need to do my own research on them. I missed half of the video on stress management which is unfortunate bc I need that information. I will have to do some reading and carve out a routine.
Exercise Guru- Welcome! Sounds like your diet is good. Lots of good information on Dr. Gregor's site Nutritionfacts.org. I eat ground flax seed on my lunch and dinner salad and I don't really measure it. I bought a huge package of Bob's Red Mill from Amazon, but next time I will look for Northern Edge.
L8Blmr - Welcome! That's powerful information regarding the vitamins for neuropathy. Also like your phrase "be a warrior, not a worrier"
Something hopeful is occurring... I watched the "Forks over Knives" video and read "How not to Die" and made some significant changes in my diet this summer - no meat, no oils, less dairy (it's only been about a week to 10 days with zero dairy). Just this week, I realized that my legs don't ache in the evening and I am not as stiff in the evening. Not long ago I had a difficult time lowering to the floor and getting up off the floor when I would do yoga or watch tv or play a game. And sometimes in the night, my legs would ache and keep me awake so I would rub muscle cream on my legs or pop an advil. I'm still a little stiff in the morning when I first get up, but not as much. So I really think it is either the lack of olive oil in my diet and possibly the lack of dairy.
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Hi GoKale! The supplement module was hilarious. I'm trying to envision the time spent opening the bottles and swallowing the pills - not to mention all those teas to prepare and drink. I have a hard enough time getting my one cup of Brassica green tea down. On the upside, with all those pills, water intake would never be a problem, but there's no way I could hold down a job. 😂
Interesting about the dairy and oil. My olive oil consumption is way up since diagnosis. I love my morning Greek yogurt with flax and chia and fresh berries. If only there was conclusive evidence about low fat dairy and recurrence risk. I've given up a lot not sure I want to give up more on spec. Awesome that you are feeling better! That makes it worthwhile for sure!0 -
Dear Life - photo was just lovely. Thanks for sharing. My favorite is salmon and sweet potato. I have that at least twice a week. I have significantly reduced my muffin top as well. A bit more to go. That is where any weight goes for me. I have as of today lost 30 lbs since May. As I told my surgeon yesterday, my life drastically changed since second bc. He was surprised. I explained my change of diet and increased exercise regime. I now bike around 30 miles a day. I explained my no sugar plan. I love this doc, very funny man, super attentive, but I am not sure he was very impressed. To be blunt, so far none of my team seems supportive of lifestyle changes. Leaving out my cancer, my general health is much improved. No more headaches. No more joint aches. I can finally sleep. People tell me I look great. I feel great. Medical team not impressed. My surgeon asked me if I planned to see my Oncologist. I replied “no”. Oh well....0
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I love to bike Go Red if we lived close we could ride together. My exercise tends to be hiking with my kiddos ,guy and dog in the foothills near our town, we bike a lot it is a form of meditation and stress relief. I have had continuing severe neuropathy so I found a trainer that could design a weight and exercise program without using my hands.
I love that quoate someone posted about being a warrior not a worrier
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As I've just started a program of slowly becoming vegan or at least half vegan, I also started taking a Vitamin B complex supplement with Magnesium, Vitamin C and choline. I don't plan to take it daily but several times a month should do. I am a minimalist when it comes to supplements. I don't like it that I don't know what they put in them exactly. Just like processed food. I can say I've saved a lot of money on supplements since my diagnosis 11 years ago this month. This one bottle of Vitamin B cost a fortune!
Pi-xi, I am not convinced either that dairy from happy cows is unhealthy. This summer though has been too hot in the alps for some cows so the milk might be compromised (stress hormones?). The Swiss military was even flying water to those cows. That just adds to the carbon footprint of dairy. Just as well to become vegan.
Redgirl, congrats on losing 30 lbs! Daily 30 mile bike rides is definitely a winning strategy. Woohooo!
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Pi-Xi- yeah, no way I can do all he suggests and hold down a job. Did you see the one on exercise and rest? He said "take a nap whenever you want to"...maybe when I retire.
A year ago, I met with a doctor who practiced holistic medicine. She suggested I make radical changes in my diet, undergo many tests, and take lots of supplements. When she described the diet, I started to cry - SO many things I would have to give up. But now, as I read information online, I am starting to come around to making big changes to my diet. For me, I could not do all this at once, though some people can. However, my attitude is more about "right now I am not eating meat or dairy, but maybe one day I will". I just can't say never again. It's also hard to give up foods I grew up with so I try not to think about it or say never again to anything.
1RedGirl - fantastic changes you have made. Wouldn't it be nice to get some encouragement from the doc? My doc is like that. One time after he told me again to stop reading stuff online, I said, "if it were you, wouldn't you be doing some research to find out what all you could do? Wouldn't you question the medical advice?" To his credit, he said yes. So how long does it take to ride 30 miles? I am curious because I like to ride, but I have not mapped out a path so I have no idea how far I go, but I definitely know it is not even a tiny fraction of 30 miles.
Exercise-guru - so great that you have a trainer. It is probably nice to get expert advice and to have someone to meet at the gym. And the benefits of hiking and spending time with your children are many.
Heidihill - I have just recently decided to review my supplements and cut down on them. It's a bit of a relief. After reading about the plant-based diet and getting vitamins from food instead, I am really enthusiastic about this.
Just heard in the news today that they came out with a study that says that no amount of alcohol is safe. However, the risk for disease goes up only a teeny tiny bit for the average person.
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Just a note to anyone going plant based or almost... the one supplement you definitely need is B12.
I did read a study that sometimes vegetarians had worse levels than actual vegans - presumably because most vegans know they need to supplement but vegetarians assume they're getting it from food when they're not...
& this is probably ot for for this thread (maybe would be better in the plant based & vegan thread) but I don't believe there can be milk from a happy cow because to make milk a cow has to be pregnant and modern production is predicated on that baby being taken away. The moms are all grieving - as are the babies. If someone had a cow on their property, the cow had her calf with her and just the excess was taken, then maybe I could be convinced that this was milk from a happy cow...but this is something that really never happens,and definitely doesn't happen with stuff you buy at a shop.0 -
Thank you for posting this
"Welcome Exercise_Guru. I'm a big time reader, seldom poster, but I sympathize with your neuropathy issues. My MO prescribed gabepentin for my chemo induced neuropathy. I said, 'NO, no more drugs.' My son is a PA for an orthapedic surgeon and he suggested 500mg of Vit C and 500mg of B Complex. That's one of their recommendations for nerve regeneration after surgery. I've been taking it for 3 weeks and neuropathy is 90% gone."
Such great recommendations I wish the MO community and neurologists had a better understanding of neuropathy. Mine is quite severe in my hands and feet but I was dogged determined and kept searching until I could find a PT who would design a workout without straining my hands and aggravating my neuropathy.
I was taking B complex vitamins but not absorbing it. I had a very compassionate gastroentologist see me about my liver enzymes. First he ordered a catscan to make sure there waa no cancer . Then he sent me to a dietician who is brilliant. She suggested I have my vitamin levels checked and it turns out I was extremely low in B12 B6 and folate (even with supplements and eating meat)
Through this I figured out that I have the MTHFR mutation(under absorb B vitamins) so 2 months ago I switched to methylated B shots and it does seem to be helping not as much as I would like with the neuropathy but many other areas of my life. I had horrible insomnia I had tried everything and since getting vitamin B I sleep wonderfully. It also helped my general well being and a lot of other aspects of my health.
Years ago in college I tried to be vegan and simultaneously trained for triathlons. I didn't know what I was doing back then and made myself very sick. Since then I have been dairy free and eat high vegetables,small amounts of meat and some grains. I thought I was doing pretty good but after treatment I put on 30 pounds almost overnight and my blood work is just wretched.
greger references a study with diabetic neuropathy showing that a 100 percent animal free whole food diet cured many people of the painful neuropathy they were experiencing. the study focused on patients with diabetes rather than chemo induced neuropathy but I was inspired to give it a go. It's been a few weeks now so the initial newness has worn off and I am branching out to provide more variety in my recipes and try to get my kiddos liking more beans, quinoa and such. I could live forever throwing a bunch of vegetables in a pot with lentils but my family...not so much. Chemo knocked my taste buds out so I have to really spice up food and it makes it hard to get the flavors right for everyone else but I will get there. One advantage is I don't really crave food and it's a pretty easy transition for me. Having crippling hands is a strong motivator as well. The downside is I can't lose any weight at all. Since my hysterectomy I could fast for a week and not lose anything.I am grateful for my dietician. She is not giving up on me and is helping me problem solve.
Also if I make it appealing to my spouse it's likely he would benefit as well.
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Moth, Swiss dairy can't be compared with anywhere else. They are all grass fed/ grazed, no hormones, GMO free feeding, average farm size is 25 cows. We pay through the nose in subsidies and farmers could never compete in world markets. I bump into moms with their calves all the time.
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Well that's sobering, isn't it. No level of alcohol is safe. I have cut back to one glass of wine every two days. Not sure I can go teetotal and miss out on the social aspect. And as one researcher said “no level of driving is safe."
What do you think? Will this research make you give up all alcohol?
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DearLife, no,it will not. I'm down as low as I'm going. I don't trust research on alcohol. People lie about such things as consumption- not so much intentionally, but most people seem to have no clue how much they really drink.0
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I've been teetotal for years - not only because I've been convinced for a while that it's a dangerous toxin but also because I'd rather "spend" the calories on something else. We need fewer and fewer cals as we age and my metabolism is such that even when I exercise a lot, there's not a lot of wiggle room in my menu. Just one 5 oz glass of wine would be ~7 % of my daily calories.
btw, last year ASCO came out with a statement warning about alcohol, primary cancer and risk of recurrence.https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alcohol...
http://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/JCO.2017.76.1...
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swg posted this article last year.
http://ascopubs.org/doi/10.1200/JCO.2006.08.6819
I was confused by some of the results. Here was my response:
Oct 28, 2017 10:54PM Pi-Xi wrote:
That was a good read, but the most interesting part was about alcohol consumption. Am I reading Table 2 incorrectly or should I be drinking 60+ drinks per month? It definitely seems at odds with other recent publications with regard to alcohol. The categoric p-value is rather high, but the trend value would be statistically significant. I need to learn some stats to make some sense out of it.0 -
PiXi,
You piqued my interest and I scanned through the study. It's a strange pool to start with - 236 BC events out of 1490 gives a roughly 1/6 incidence which is a tad higher then the " norm" - follows 118 BC deaths out of the 236 events ( that is hitting 50% and really not representative of current outcomes).
Then follow the odd comments on smoking - the smoking pool was to small for anything and I am not sure why they included it, in results outside bulking up their paper. Finally yes I am reading the alcohol results as you are regarding alcohol - ignoring calculation on Cox ( that regression assumes effect constant over time and biologically with alcohol that is doubtful) the mortality numbers looklower for over 60 drinks. Finally on BMI - what is the point of calculating and reposting what appears to be a one sided P for trend - we know low and high BMI are probematic for different reasons - it would have made sense to report direction from low normal BMI upwards and that P would then reach significant. Very messy stats to my way of thinking..
I wrote on my tango with wine in the other thread - too much of anything, broccoli included is not fun and probably not great for you. Do I believe a SMALL ( go retro ladies, those hold a half a bottle modern things are horrid to wash) glass of RED wine with your dinners a few times a week will hurt? No I don't - I drink red wine occasionally , try and buy local and organic and when I do I enjoy it. I don't drink spirits unless I am out and that is rare - crazy busy with sports and child, and then I don't I self flaggelate if I order a dry Martini ( last one was at Christmas ). I had a few beers on a cruise to NZ a few months back - loved it - it was breezy and they were dark and scrumptious.
At the moment our lemons are ripe - so I have a lemon a day with a bit of hot water and a touch of honey - no I don't stress about the GI of the honey - it's a great drink!!
Hugs to all - love reading this thread - ohhh DearLife what a great trip you must have had - it brings a smile to my face just thinking of iit!!
( just one thing the stuff on the low BMI is probably worth noting, we are stating to see lower outcomes across a range of conditions for low BMI, and we see this in marathon runners - extremes of stress - physical or otherwise suppress your immune system - it bounces back when the stress is removed but it is lowered for th e stress period)
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Well, some good news today. I had a lump taken out last week from my mastectomy side. Pathology called today to say it was just a cyst. What is interesting is that a dermatologist in another state weighed in explaining that she sees many cysts after mastectomies due to trauma.
I never intended to bike ride so much. It relieves stress for me. I also decided to help clean up the environment. People throw cans, bottles, etc. So I ride and pick up trash. Somebody must. I have made significant headway. Many see me. Maybe people will resist trashing up our beautiful countryside. I sure hope so. On a sad note, I found a dead fawn last week. I had been seeing her and the doe and admiring them on my rides. I was sick the fawn got hit by a car. Cried like a baby. I could not leave her there to rot in public. I picked her up and moved her to a secure location to decompose. She looked perfect. So beautiful. Broke my heart.
I take zinc, turmeric, and DIM. I probabaly will take Vit D in the winter. There are a few others I am researching.
I drink green tea with ginger every day. I drink lemon tea often during the day. I admit I love lemons. I eat raspberries that we grow everyday. I freeze them as well. I eat purple grapes all day long. A banana a day. Flax on my bagel each am. Broccoli every day. Wild salmon twice a week. No beef. Sweet potatoes. No white potatoes. I make a great zucchini choc cake. I take a sliver. I freeze these small loaves. My husband is skinny and loves cake and ice cream. I always made my own ice cream. I never eat it now. Too much sugar. I miss it. I eat little bread, no pasta. I eat eggs. Chicken.
I bike about 15 miles in the am. It takes about 1 hr. It depends on route. How many hills. I then ride in the pm about the same amount. We also ride bike trails around the state about 2x weekly. So some place different each time. Gorgeous scenery.0 -
1redgirl, Glad that your lump was a cyst! I admire all your bike riding with the addition of picking up trash. I read all the posts on this thread and I’ve learned from everyone
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1redgirl so happy your lump was b9! It must be a big relief. I love to read good news and you deserve it.
You are reminding me I need to take a bag and gloves with me to pick up trash when I walk on our country roads. Usually beer cans. Hard to believe people can be so hostile.
My diet is similar to yours and reading about it keeps me on track.
But I would love your recipe for zucchini chocolate cake! Lots of zucchini out there right now.
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Hello to all! This is my first post here on this discussion. I am in need of help. I have IDC stage 1b, I'm ER+99%, PR% 99% & HER2-. I've asked all my medical team on advice to change my diet. I was told eat salads, grilled chicken and limited fruits. 😢 Being a food lover wasn't what I wanted to hear. I'll be 32 in September & I really need help learning the correct foods to consume to help with overall health & reassurance fears. I'm not over weight but I have put on around 10 pds since my BMX in June. I've asked to see a dietician, nutritionist to no avail. Would anyone be willing to teach me? I'm at a true loss. I'm originally from the deep South, everything is fried & always has potatoes,cornbread grits things out that nature I've grown to relaize I'm even preparing some of my vegetables wrong. You can contact me PM or on this form. Also any recommendations on cookbooks I have ordered How not to die, I'm waiting on it's arrival. Thank you all, I need my BCO sisters! Best Wishes~ SA
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whateverittakes, welcome!
If you're really desparate, Forks Over Knives offers an online cooking course several times a year https://www.forksoverknives.com/cooking-course/#gs...But you can probably just slowly figure things out from recipes and youtube techniques. There's a separate plant based & vegan thread if you're interested more in the How Not to Die message. The first post has some links to resource for menu planning and recipes. https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/58/topics...
I don't understand the recommendation for limiting fruits except for people who are trying to lose weight or who have blood sugar problems. 2-3 servings a day of whole fruit (not juice) is usually a sound recommendation. Natural sugars in whole fruit is not generally a problem imo.
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Welcome whateverittakes to our forum! It is a big step to change eating habits but your screen name tells me you have the right attitude. There are lots of good ideas if you scroll back in this thread.
Your diagnosis is similar to mine, except I am on Letrozole, not tamoxifen. I rely on this list because there is research to support the recommended foods:
There is also good info here about diet during tamoxifen treatment:
https://foodforbreastcancer.com/articles/breast-cancer-diet-during-tamoxifen-treatment
I am a food lover too but haven't found it hard to enjoy meals. It is actually fun to learn new ways of cooking and eating. I have lost 15 pounds since changing my ways, and that is a bonus.
In a nutshell, I doubled my vegetables, halved my carbs, cut way back on meat and wine and mostly cut out sugar, which feeds BC. I am trying more vegan recipes too. Beans and lentils are magical and lots of vegetables are delicious roasted or barbecued. Youwon't be hungry.
It is really important to exercise regularly, daily if you can. This reduces the chance of recurrence by 40%.
I hope others will chime in with their tips and favourite cookbooks.
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whateverittakes, I recommend the “Cancer fighting kitchen” (you can follow on Facebook also)and “power foods”, which is a Martha Stewart publication and I come back to again and again. I would also get a magazine subscription to clean eating or cooking light, something fun that will change. Also, not a cookbook exactly but “Turning off Breast Cancer”. And maybe look into a meal Delivery kit like Daily Harvest or Sun Basket. I just found out I get a 5% discount with Sun Basket via my health insurance.
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