Diet and Lifestyle
Comments
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I am doing a lot of what the rest of you are doing....
There is a Dr Block in Chicago with an integrative cancer care center. He has a book with a wealth of info and I had a consult with him. A naturopathic MD in my town gave almost identical recommendations. Mostly a vegetarian diet with small amounts of fish and meat, no empty calories, and limited nutrient dense carbs. Low fat, no dairy.
- no sugar, four, alcohol. (I was sad to give up my evening drink, but I have TNBC, so I do not want to screw around!)
- ketogenic diet & fasting mimicking (Valter Longo /USC) before chemo; then adding back good carbs (quinoa, lentils, sweet potato) in rebuild phase, then back into fasting mimicking again before next chemo.
- very little meat & poultry, only organic. Salmon or other wild caught fish a few times per week. One or two eggs per week max. (Whites ok but not yolks).
-veggie juicing - cruciferous veggies
-supplements: a lot... you can find my other post w whole list... And I get nutritional IVs between chemos.
- I do a smoothie every am with organic whey protein isolate powder (the one ok dairy item), super greens powder, and reishi mushroom powder, with Nut milk based plain kefir (Califia) and coconut yogurt (unsweetened), plus berries, Flax seeds. Tasty!
-My advice was a couple of 1/2 servings of low glycemic fruits only. Berries have the best phytochemicals and are low glycemic...
-Last, I was advised to really push the exercise. Even on the morning of chemo, I do 18 mins of interval training min. The doctor wants my body to think it is building and training, not wasting away.
My appetite is crap for the week of chemo... thank God for the smoothies. I feel hungry, but nothing sounds appealing! I am just out of round two and hoping my appetite comes back tomorrow!
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hapa yes the loss of fiber from not eating the “skins” of the veggies is the only downside in my view. Although when I’ve done juicing as my primary food source, it’s so much fluid that I’m actually more regular in bowel movements juicing than not. I’ve only ever done strict juicing diets for up to a week though but honestly felt great while doing it!
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you are amazing here, thank you for your reactions to my questions. I very much appreciate that 💚
GoKale - yes, my taste buds are affected, in fact I feel like I drank scolding hot coffee. My tongue and lips on the inside are "burnt" and numb. Got a mouth wash from my MO yesterday, so I hope this will pass. Thank you for the book and video tips.
Hapa, you are an inspiration. But for me, I don't think it's possible in the extend. I find your way remarkable! But I will deffinitelly keep your suggestions reg. sugar in mind. I get those cravings... I have to cut back on sugar and see whether they subside as you say. thank you.
ExerciseGuru, thank you for your tips. I think I will do just that - cut back part of my meat intake and see how I feel. Yes, adding beans, whole grains, berries - that is probably the way for me. I have to cut down white-flour pastry (I love fresh French baguettes!)
DearLife, thank you for your opinion. Well my BMI has been under 20 my whole life, even with all the sweets I love so much. your suggestion with skipping meat-days might work for me
Santabarbarian, wow, you really go full force during chemo. I just try to eat a lot of veggies and fruit, I am not able to do more just now. You are amazing.
I'm not sure about the eggs - I mean I don't know about any reasons to lower eggs intake? I don't intend to become vegan, maybe not even a vegeterian, and my eggs are completelly OK - from happy chick running in my family's yard. I think I eat about 5-7 eggs a week.... Is there any real downside in eating eggs? My blood cholesterol (as well as anything else) is OK
Berries, berries, that's what I LOVE. We have free entrance in any woods here, so we gather berries and love that. blueberries, raspberries - our freezer is half full with just berries. And this year, our Amelachier bush has gone CRAZY. I love it. I put them in yoghurt or just eat them as they are.
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wow I am very impressed with your plan through chemo. When I was there I did the longo fast but nothing else. I wish I had gotten more vitamin c. The fasting is tough. Did you do the prolon kit or just go straight water fasting? The kit didn't exist in 2015 so I did the old fashion way. 3 days in and 1 day out.
Also my diet sucked in chemo low food because nothing tasted good and my gut hated fiber. More low nutrition than junk food. I think I paid for that afterwards because I went from chemo into surgeries and I am sure now I was vitamin depleted.
It took me years to get to whole 30 type eating and now I moved on to whole foods plants grains and beans.
I own several high end juicers but I also have a high power blender(vitamix) so I just blend everything. I also sprout and I am getting back into microgreens because they are easy to grow. I just throw them in spinach salads or in the blender with tomato juice. Sprouting broccoli is so easy.
The berries are the hardest for me to get ahold of. My garden doesn't give much of a yield and they are quite expensive.
JABO it sounds like you live in a wonderful place. Do you have a garden?
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ExercizeGuru, yes, I think I live in a nice place. Hills, forests, villages scattered in the valleys. Yes, I do have a fairly large garden. We have decided the berries are the easiest to grow, so apart from gathering them in the forest, we grow a lot ourselves. We have a large raspberries plot (sorry, I'm struggling here with my vocabulary) with red and black raspberries, kilos of them each year. There are several red and black currant bushes, large amelachier bush, several high bush blueberries and a few honeyberry bushes too. So from end of May till October we pick some fresh berries every day, the rest goes to the freezer. In fact the high bush blueberries brought me through AC chemo. I ate a large bowl every day, felt even a craving to eat them. We grow some vegetables too, right now I am happy how the pumpkins are ripening. Love them baked with red beetroot and carrots and with my herbs. I grow the beetroot and carrots, but not enough, so we have to buy it too. There are also many fruit trees in the orchard. Maybe this all is the reason why my BMI has never got the chance to go over 20.... This all belongs more to the gardening thread, but maybe it's also a lifestyle choice, so up to the title of this thread....
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I did not do Prolon... I just counted the carbs, fat, protein and calories, and kept to their formula... 800 calories per day for 5 days, with their recommended ratio of protein/carbs/fats. (A boring but easy way to do it is 3 large avocados per day. But that's way too boring to eat for 5 days.) I did stuff like vegetable soups w bone broth, big green salads, a small piece salmon, etc and just counted everything up.
I am being very, very proactive because TNBC is so aggressive and there are not a lot of secondary options for me.
The other thing I am doing (and I think it is helping) is putting heat on my tumor and lymph node. If you read about Hyperthermia (Cleveland Clinic does it) it is clear that cancer cells die or get damaged by a level of heat that healthy cells can withstand. About 107, lasting for an hour. Heat can also damage or kill cancer stem cells. And it brings blood and oxygen to the tumor site (tumors hate oxygen). My tumor is about apx 1/2" below the skin, easy to feel (found it myself) and the lymph node in armpit also right there and easy to feel. I discovered through the internet that in Veterinary practice, they use a recirculating hot water bottle device to apply hyperthermia to shrink tumors. Heck, I thought, I can do this too. So I have used a lot of heat on the tumor, the day or two prior to chemo (several one hour sessions) and during the drip I also have a hot heating pad on it to draw the chemo-laced blood to the area. I am a lover of a 105 degree hot tub so I am pretty sure I am aware of what 106/7 feels like. I am left with a magenta superficial burn that does not hurt but stays pink and fades slowly over several days.
Before chemo #2 I heated my lymph node in my armpit extensively-- and it was actually MUCH smaller by the next day, before the drip even started. I made my Onc's asst examine me to show her it had shrunk.
The nutritional IVs have made round two easier than round one. I felt way less polluted and less stinging in my eyes. Better appetite and less fatigue. I am on day 5 and am back to normal, not having dipped nearly as low.
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I'm glad to hear that others are juicing too! My "Champion Juicer" is 35 years old and running strong. Since I was informed of my diagnosis (May 09/18) I have been juicing daily. I make the juice in the morning and drink about a third of it (2c.) for breakfast. I drink another 2 cups at work (fortunately I have a fridge to use there), and then on my way home I drink the last 2 cups. I add several seeds to my juice, after I strain out the pulp, and I also add green pea protein powder. I blend this up in a high-powered blender (Vitamix) which is also several years old. This gives me tons of energy to get me through the day. I then usually have a big salad for supper with maybe some home-made soup. Someone mentioned the Gerson Diet Program. It strongly encourages doing daily coffee enemas. I have been doing this type of enema since mid May. I do it every morning and find that while waiting the 15 minutes for that to sit in my bowel, it gives me forced down-time that I use for meditation while listening to hymns. Any kind of music that uplifts the spirits will work! I actually look forward to this "ME" time. The main purpose of these coffee enemas is to detoxify the liver. There is tons on the internet about this therapy. I just want to say that it does get easier to do after the first couple of weeks. If it didn't, I would have given up on it long before now.
Thanks santabarbarian! Very interesting about Hyperthermia. Whatever helps, I'm in!! I haven't used our hot tub since diagnosed, because of the chlorine. I'm going to see if it can be converted to peroxide instead, which I hear is good for extra oxygenation.
JaBoo, keep up with the berries! I need to start sprouting more too. Especially Broccoli!
Erinashley19, I've never tried only juicing for a week. Sounds challenging but you did it, so maybe I'll give it a try!
exercise_guru, I'm going to check out the fasting you are mentioning. Thanks for that!
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I don't juice. I think juicing loses too much fiber. I do like green veg smoothies done in a vitamix as that pulverizes and keeps all the fiber.
Gerson really belongs in the alternative threads, I think. It's not really complementary at all & it's been the subject of considerable criticism among evidence based practitioners for over 10 years now. Science Based Medicine and Respectful Insolence have both written about Gerson.0 -
I am with moth on using the Vitamix. I recently learned (on BCO) about the benefits of watercress, so have been throwing an entire bunch into the Vitamix with some cold green tea and lime and am happy to drink it down. Doing this daily now. Chewing it all would be a lot of work (and make me feel like a cow!).
This is first time posting on this thread as I am trying to optimize my diet to fight BC, so have some questions for the more experienced:
1) For those like me that had ER+, what foods and supplements lead to estrogen production and should be avoided? It seems like a lot here take turmeric/curcumin, but I thought I read it produces estrogen. I've read the same about soy, sesame, and flax - so avoiding them all for now.
2) Is pomegranate OK for ER+? I bought some pomegranate powder and have been adding it to yogurt and smoothies, but have heard that there could be some contraindications with medication - so putting that on hold as well for now.
I've read about the benefits of broccoli sprouts, but can't find them in any markets -- and we have some pretty good ones near me. Has anyone found a distributor?
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welcome
I am trying to grow my own watercress because nothing is available here ..even seeds so that is very cool you have a ready source. I love the tea and mint idea. I might try it with Matcha. I still haven't figured out how to enjoy that.
As for broccoli sprouts all you need is a quart bottle with a screened lid. I buy a pound of organic non gmo seeds and put two tablespoons in the bottle. Rinse and drain twice daily for 2 to 5 days depending on your preference. Put them by a window the last day to green them up. My instructions are poor but there are some good visuals on how to make them if you google. It's pennies a day for very good nutrition.
There are also small sprouting trays you could try growing your own microgreens it's very easy. Or use a container you already own. I have heard watercress is a cinch. You could probably get your store bought watercress to root in water.
The phytoestrogen is controversial. I don't take curcumin or flax in supplement form but eat it in my diet. 1 tsp tumeric in recipes . I also consume 1 to 4 Tablespoons ground flax in baking and yogurt. 1 cooked mushroom somewhere in my diet daily. My goal is to build my gut and eat high value nutrition. I have a lot of side effects from treatment so I consuming 40 grams of fiber daily from whole foods. The only food I actively avoid is grapefruit because of tamoxifen.
There is a very good dietician at my cancer center and she gives me good counsel. She stresses whole foods over supplements and in reasonable quantities.
She strongly recommends avoiding soy protein powder but 1 to 2 servings regular soy is fine. I use pea protein if needed.
With flax her recommendation is no more than 1 Tablespoon a day. I make my own choice on that.
With tumeric , fine in seasoning no supplementation. I have the hole root and add it to smoothies.
She strongly recommends a vitamin low in Folic acid(no more than the daily recomendation if at all).she encourages me to eat a rainbow of food.
With soy if you already consumed it before diagnosis go ahead and continue. I had switched to nut milk long before diagnosis so I am torn about adding it back. There is mixed research about soy and tamoxifen if you start afree diagnosis.
I do take vitamin D and K2.
I also suplement Methylated B vitamins(with B12 but excluding Folic acid). This B is primarily because no longer consume animal products. I also have chronic neuropathy. I like the THORNE brand of vitamins and mercola personally.
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Thanks exerciseguru for the tip reg. sprouting! I'm really very new to this amd I was seriously thinking how am I going to clean the soil from sprouts. 😁 That's a great way in the bottle. I googled it and I found some nice trays or bottles with net on top. Do you eat the sprouts whole including the seed shells?
And one more thing has crossed my mind - - What do you all think about honey?
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Hi all! I’m a big fan of juicing and use a masticating juicer to get the most juice out of the veggies. I don’t use it to replace anything. I usually drink it with my morning supplements and breakfast of fiber and protein. Glad to hear others like juicing as well. I think smoothies are a great addition too and sometimes have those as dessert
For broccoli sprouts, I bought a kit on amazon. Not very expensive at all.
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I use something like this
Sprouting Lids Set - 4 Pack Stainless Steel Rings 4 Pack Curved Mesh
If you take the lid off the and spoon out the seeds from the top of the water they start to float the 2nd or 3rd day. There is a process to dehull them but I find there are few seeds left if I just spoon them off the top of the water.
De-Hulling De-hulling is the process of removing hulls (seed coats) from your finished sprouts.
also I don't do this but I stumbled accross this video to increase the sulforophane.
I use something like this for growing radish greens and such. I just put a small amount of soil in and then trim them . or I just sprout and dehull like the video before but thats a bit more work.
My kiddos love Broccoli sprouts so thats easy for us they also like sunflower microgreens. Watercress is very healthy I would love to figure it out.
These trays are expensive but they are awesome and last forever. SproutMaster
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Exercise- that’s so awesome that your kids like broccoli sprouts!!! When I grow them, sometimes I can’t get over the smell and it really lessons my desire for them.
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ExercizeGuru aka Sprouting Guru, thanks a lot for all your tips! the sprouting glasses you use can be orderef also here. I am really excited right now, you've solved one of my little problems! A few days ago I was telling my DH over a salad at a restaurant that the sprouts in the salad are delicious and we were briefly wondering how to grow them at home... so now I'm packed with great info, thank you. I think I will look into the trays. Wow, and sunflower microgreens? really? Are they so tasty? Great, there are sunflowers in my garden... just fading. So I'm going to pick their seeds and give it a try!!
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Welcome
sunflower sprouts are pretty easy you just put a thin layer of soil. Put the seeds on and a thin layer of soil ( very thin) then you put another tray on top and leave them. You take the top tray off once the sunflower seeds push up the tray.
With Broccoli sprouts I rinse them a lot more like 3 times a day and I also store them in a crisper container rather than a bag. I also don't sprout mixes that much because the cabbage sprouts are quite pungent. I throw them in the blender for smoothies. Serve them on the salads and toss anything I have in stirfrys because they increase the vitamins.
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I scored today and found broccoli sprouts in the store! I am going to call the produce manager and tell her/him to keep carrying them.
I am very confused about phytoestrogens. I stopped eating meat but now I am reading about the high estrogen in legumes like chickpeas and black beans. I need to get protein and calories from somewhere!
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stacybee you are asking some very good questions. I have not consumed Dairy for twenty ears because it makes me quite ill. I still got breast cancer even though I fervently believe Dairy and eggs have far more estrogen than the flaxseed that I eat. This is a controversial article but interesting. I have tried to research the estrogenic effects of meat and dairy compared to beans legumes and soy. Unfortunately I have not found a good source to reference here. I have concluded personally to continue to pursue a Whole Foods diet rich in legumes and a wide variety of vegetables. If I do find a good source of material ranking the estrogenic contents of food I will definitely PM the link to you. Please post if you find out something more about this. I did see this link with the attached study paper foods high in phystoestrogen but the lignans in flaxseed and ingredients in regular soy are supposed to be super amazing for your health. compared to Soy/flax most foods were much lower.
For now I take comfort in knowing that in addition to the small estrogenic effect I might get from some of these whole foods I am also getting a strong supply of phytonutrients. I am also working to reduce exposure of BPA in receipts and canned goods. for me I use a pressure cooker ( insta pot ) and just cook my beans and grains etc. I also cook sweet potatoes, squash, all of that. Its tough to pack lunches for school and work but I am working on eliminating processed foods and sticking to homemade items microwave but only with glass containers.
My person feeling is that Beans are fine as are seeds nuts and whole grains if they are non GMO. I just have bigger things to worry about than if a bean has a bit of phytoestrogen in it.
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moth- I wasn’t really suggesting Gerson as an alternative treatment. I’ve known a couple people who have but personally I think it’s just great to follow alongside standard treatments (not just cancer treatment either). I think it has real merit as far as detoxification goes and boosting the immune system etc.
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ExerciseGuru, thank you again. I will do just that - I'll put the sunflower seeds in soil that's the easiest way for me. After they are nice black and ripe, that is. Hope I'll be quicker than the birds 😀 they love sunflowers and have started to pick them. I should wrap them (the sunflowers, not the birds)
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regarding soy, the CMAJ 2017 review says " there is sufficient evidence to at least conclude that soy products need not be avoided."
They also cite several studies that showed it reduced recurrence, esp in ER+ cancer and that it seems to have some similarity in effect to tamoxifen. (see p E270) http://www.cmaj.ca/content/cmaj/189/7/E268.full.pd...My suspicion is that other phytoestrogens have similar profiles - either neutral or actually preventative
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Moth, my nutritionist just handed me a brochure with this info as well. Glad to hear it, love tofu!
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Great info moth! I agree.
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https://elynjacobs.com/2014/06/23/demystifying-fla...
Here's a link to an article that talks about phytoestrogens in flaxseed. I found this article to be very reassuring. This is part of the Elyn Jacobs website that has other helpful articles.
Another thing I learned recently is that cutting out animal products and replacing them with plant foods will reduce the estrogen in your body. I read that in The China Study.
Moth - I love seeing articles that are specific to prevention of cancer recurrence. So encouraging!
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Great info GoKale. Thank you for that link. It all gets so confusing sometimes.
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I think the stronger recommendation would be to eat quality soy foods in reasonable quantities. My dietitian at the cancer center who is very level headed esplained that a glass of soymilk or a serving of tofu is fine. A scoop of protein powder is too much. Also alot of processed soy is just junk. I used to eat a lot of that in the 90's I should have just stuck to products where the outcome still looked like soy ( beans, tempeh, miso, milk) instead of toffuti dogs and such which I ate a ton in college. I am looking for some good soy recipes because I would really like to introduce my young daughter to soy. I am working on it.
I would welcome a good recipe for those who are picky eaters and scared of giving up meat but it must be from whole foods diets.
that was a very good post for flax seed. I have been trying to track down the muffins they madein that study that had 25 grams per muffin. I have found various "breast saving flax muffins" but not one that matched there dose. I was looking for something to eat for breakfast everyday. Sort of a food for medicine type breakfast.
I finally found a very good one I am eating this week . Its not perfect. I made it as described because it was expensive and I wanted to give it a fair chance. I will look to improve it in the future by removing the eggs and swapping them for something else and swap the sugars and coconut oil . My recipe made 16 squares but it came out to to be 3 Tbsp of Ground golden flax per serving which has been the best I have found. If I had made 12 squares it would have been 4Tbsp per serving which I think I remember is the 25 grams a day from the study. I will look it up later and edit HERE
update I had 6grams per tablespoon but the flax foundation posted this
Flaxseed's health benefits come from the fact that it's high in fiber and omega-3 fatty acids, as well as phytochemicals called lignans. One tablespoon (7 grams) of ground flaxseed contains 2 grams of polyunsaturated fatty acids (includes the omega 3s), 2 grams of dietary fiber and 37 calories.Dec 13, 2015
the entire recipe contains 38Tablespoons or 336 grams flax
so to get 25 grams the recipe is pretty good if cut in 12 it gives 28 grama per serving those would be quite large squares
At 16 slices it gives 21 grams so pretty close. My square had 11 grams fiber and around 275 calories. it filled me up until noon. it was a bit bland so I ate it with jam and almond butter.
Apple Flax Breakfast Squares
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Those look yummy, exercise_guru! I think they may be in my future. If you experiment with the swaps, please let us know how they work out!0
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Yes, those look yummy! Lately, I’ve been adding golden flax to smoothies and getting them that way.
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I made up some granola bars on my own.... flax seed, sesme seed, pepitas and some other diced nuts and seeds I had around and some uncooked buckwheat... Added a few dried cranberries diced up, and some cocoanut flakes (unsweetened). Mixed all this with one bowl of single serving unsweetend oatmeal (made, w slightly less boiling water) and one half mashed green banana, and then baked in square pan at 350 for about 20 mins till dark golden. They were a bit crumbly but very tasty.
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Reporting back on my broccoli sprouts escapades, while I do not have time or counter space to grow them myself, I have now secured a stable supply (which I know sounds ridiculous, like I am buying drugs!). I figured out that a local market gets shipments on Mondays and on Saturday the wheatgrass juice guy at the farmer's market had a bag under the counter which he sold to me. He grows them along with wheatgrass in a big shipping container. Hipsters!
For the last two weeks, I have had 4 oz. of broccoli sprouts daily in a smoothie with watercress, green tea, pomegranate powder and either a lime or an apple. I hope I am not overdoing it on the sprouts but it makes me feel like I am doing something good to go after sneaky cancer cells and prevent a new occurence in addition to the AI I am on. Any thoughts? If I asked my oncologist, I think she would consider me silly. She is very medical in her approach. Take the AI. The nutritionist at the center where I am treated is all about balance and everything she recommended to me was a common sense balanced diet with no processed foods.
In all, having recently finished "active" treatment with radiation, I am trying to optimize my diet to give me any advantage I can get. Before my diagnosis, I was nutritionally aware and a generally healthy eater. During the week, I ate plain Greek yogurt in the mornings and grilled chicken kale salads for lunch and some other form of poultry and veggies for dinner. But on the weekends I was an omnivore and would indulge in pizza, Mexican food, high quality meats and cheese, etc. + wine. Now, I have cut out the wine and all of the "omnivore" stuff, including meat and cheese, and trying to determine a new diet. I have a very busy job + a family, so I really need to figure out my new normal eating routine that is not too much trouble. I am eating carrots, mushrooms, berries + greens, greens, greens every day.
I got excited by all the microgreens available at the farmer's market. In addition to broccoli sprouts, I bought baby mustard and purple radish microgreens. They also had sunflower and pea shoots which I will try next time. I bought some buckwheat sprouts (from the hipster wheatgrass guy) as I know buckwheat is highly recommended but when I looked it up on line later I learned it can actually be poisonous in some cases, so am ditching it. I also picked up some bitter melon but decided what to do with them
I have been very influenced by studies showing that active cardio exercise is linked to lower rates of recurrence. When I asked a trainer at the hospital, she said it was due to oxygenation. I was never a consistent exerciser but now am at the gym every day. I think it really helped me through radiation.
I really enjoy the conversation on this thread. Overall, I welcome any thoughts and suggestions that could help me and others figure out a new optimized diet and routine to fight BC.
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