Jane McLelland protocol / COC protocol for STAGE IV members ONLY
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So .....I don't know...so many things with cancer are so weird and how some of us get it..and some don't. I even read in Janes book just last night, she basically said the EXACT same thing I said about my mom (on here in the "lets talk sugar" thread) ...a LOT of people eat and drink like crap...yet...NO CANCER!!! NO health problems....I made the remark that my mom is 80 years old smokes a pack a day...eats cakes and candy for dinner..burgers EVERYTHING crappy...and yup...here she is 80 years old....and I am the one with cancer lol my mom say I am "the healthiest sick person she knows".....both my sisters (one died 2 years ago, not from disease, she was holding the slow sign on the road construction job and a 19 year old driving a box truck got distracted and hit her and killed her) her (she was 57years old) and my older sister now 60 yrs old ate like crap , drink , smoke...yup...no health issues!!
This makes me wonder...how much is diet actually an issue??? I am not saying that it is NOT an issue and that sugar doesn't feed cancer...I believe it does..but I don't know that I believe it feeds it as much as people think...and I also think it depends on the type of cancer. Jane even mentions people that are Vegans, Vegetarians...totally healthy who get cancer....its true...it's like the people that never smoke a day in their lives and never around smokers yet..they get lung cancer??? I think a lot of this has to do with genes...I think we all have these genes and in some of us our body obviously fights it off and some...it doesn't. Hence why I think some people think diet is the MAIN fight off key here...but I still don't think I agree. I had a week or 2 full weeks of healthy green smoothies for breakfast, about 90 - 95% dairy free, 95% sugar free 90% carb free and to be honest I didn't feel great I lost over 13 lbs. and was down to 92lbs... I felt weak my muscles felt non existent. My son and future daughter in law showed up Friday night at 2am to surprise me (drove in from long island, because they knew I had been down about the ibrance failure 2 weeks ago) and for the past 4 days I cheated pretty much ate what I want...only sugar cheat was a dairy free ice cream bar..but I had carbs, and coffee each morning with a tablespoon of half and half...we went for a hike...etc...to be honest physically I felt better..I even went to the gym when they left yesterday...I was knocked out last night though I went to bed at 8pm. Anyway...my point is...I just don't know if "starving" myself (which I what I feel was happening) is right for me. don't misunderstand me...I know I wasn't literally starving...I was eating healthy..but I don't think my body is healthy at almost 90lbs.!!! I think I need a day of it's ok to have pasta today 1 day a week...or its ok to have a glass or 2 of wine with my dinner ...or it's ok to have a cheat day...maybe 2 days a week would be right for me. How about the women on here..in the "lets talk sugar thread" that are 5 - 8 years NED and eat everything they want...yup sugar included..they have Stage 4 breast cancer..and eat EVERYTHING they want...get on over there and read it...it's true
I want to add that I know there are people and I have seen this personally who were never ever healthy at all...and by healthy I mean all they drink was soda and sugar juices...and eat all processed boxed foods every single day and eat McDonalds etc...then they get sick..and then they cut all of that out...and eat mostly plant based..they wind up detoxing...have mucus coming out and everything ..and then BAM...WOW they are cured..all their problems get fixed...yes..this is because they were sooo toxic. So once they get rid of all the toxicity..the body can function again. However there are people..like myself who I consider to be generally pretty darn healthy never drink anything but water...cook all good foods..yes to include carbs, potatoes pasta once a week...lots of veggies and work out 4 to 5 times a week..they are not really toxic so even when they get really clean..they still have disease....this is where I believe genes play a BIG role. AGAIN this is just my OPINION..I am not saying this is the FACTS .
Also...we need to look at the the real facts here...especially now that I am reading a LOT of stuff from people in Jane and Joes FB groups doing these protocols. Janes approach and Joe's does NOT WORK FOR EVERYONE!... It doesn't. I think we can do the best we can..but that is the most we can do. I find myself getting obsessed with "am I blocking every pathway..." "omgosh I ate macaroni and meatballs ...my cancer is growing..." I just don't think I personally can live like that. I want to SAVE MY LIFE...YES I DO...but I just think maybe I am not cut out for the Vegan-ish life style. I guess I am just sharing my personal thoughts with you all....and that may change..hey a week or month from now I may be Miss Vegan Virginia..lol who knows I never want to say "ill never do that...."..but right now that wasn't working for me
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Nicole,
I found that I could not stick to a restrictive diet either. I've added some carbs back in and treat myself once in awhile with something sweet.
My TMs are still going down each month.
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Nicole, maybe the problem with your dilemma is due to a lack of perspective. Americans life's expectancy is getting worst.
Cancer is not the only problem affecting us. Do you know how many millions of so called healthy Americans have died since you and have have been diagnosed? I'm not sure, but probably too many to count in comparison to the losses on these boards.think about them...they didn't know what was coming...at least we can prepare and fight... enjoy what time we have left, knowing we can't take anything for granted.
You see people eating junk food as getting away, I see them as the walking dead..just a question of time before something terrible happens to them too....
Unfortunately, people SEEM healthy, till they're not...that's what we were before being diagnosed....it took me couple years before I could even start to wrap my head around my diagnosis...
About diet, I eat what feels good, I tend to follow the Buddhist MIDDLEWAY, I eat consciously most of the time, and unconsciously some time...there are many ways to make healthy choices delicious...it's doesn't have to be all black and white...
Chronic Diseases: What Are They?
Chronic diseases are the leading cause of death and disability in the United States.
133 million Americans – 45% of the population – have at least one chronic disease.
Chronic diseases are responsible for seven out of every 10 deaths in the U.S., killing more than 1.7 million Americans every year.
Chronic diseases can be disabling and reduce a person's quality of life, especially if left undiagnosed or untreated. For example, every 30 seconds a lower limb is amputated as a consequence of diabetes...
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I know what you mean Nicole and it's frustrating and confusing. I am eating pretty strict right now and I do not feel good. Just weak. I think we are all different. Just one example when I was constipated I had all kinds of advice of course, mostly from my dad. All kinds of fruit and veggies etc. Nothing helped. Then I ate a bagel and I went almost right away. Dad is big on not eating any bread but I don't think it disagrees with me the way it does him.
Had my phone consult with dr Zhang of coc last night. I really like him. He's positive and hopeful. My meds and stuff will be on the way. He said about 5 days.
I have a pall care consult this morning and thinking of cancelling. I don't have pain and I'm just not sure they can help me. I don't like to waste time and I need to really conserve my energy. I need someone to drive me everywhere I go. Went to podiatrist yesterday and it was painful and really took a lot out of me.
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I hear ya Frisky...I definitely don't see people that eat whatever they want and don't have cancer or some other disease as "getting away with it" maybe it sounded like that but I don't feel like that...I just feel like I said, some people can eat and drink what ever they want and they do not have/get cancer and to be honest I think that's freakin awesome...I wouldn't mind being "walking dead" as you said if I live to my mothers age of 80 ....I would be pretty darn happy..healthy or not...lol
I just don't think I can do the almost vegan life style (which is basically what I hear many saying is the way you MUST eat in order to "starve your cancer".)..my point is...I don't know that I believe that to the degree others do...and really if not eating an almost vegan way means my cancer is gonna triple in size...then I guess it's gonna...because right now...I do not want to STRESS about ANYTHING..not about having some Pasta Frajoli and some meatballs one night a week and not about having a glass of wine with my husband. Now eating and drinking "bad" every day or every other day yea...I think that could/might make things worse...but I need to not stress and I need weight on me. I eat coconut oil and avocados all week it's not putting weight on me...maybe it does for some people but apparently does not work for me so either way I will be adding in some carbs and such.
I was just mentioning all this because I just read what Jane said last night about how some eat what ever they want and never get cancer...and then some vegans...yea there they are with cancer...so I agree with her...it doesn't work for everyone or everyones cancer....but again these are just my thoughts...doesn't mean I think I am right...just my own personal feelings *right now* about food/diet/cancer...
I forgot to say in my original post that for the 2 years prior to re-diagnosis that having certain foods SHARP SHARP Cheeses and salami's, Soppressata's...like 3 times a week every week...and bacon every single weekend...definitely fueled my cancer to grow in my case because I was literally binging on that stuff...but again that is just my thoughts...I could be wrong...but I never ate that much, that often of those things until the 2 years prior to re-diagnosis so I always felt like it fueled it not caused it, but fueled it.
Frisky..I have to say...GOD BLESS YOUR WILL POWER.eating so good and living in NYC..because when I was back home living in Long Island...staying away from BAGELS and PIZZA for me was like giving a recovering alcoholic a bottle in his hand...LOL seriously the food in NY I will ALWAYS miss it...oh yea..and especially CHINESE FOOD!!! My son and future daughter in law brought my husband Chinese food when they came friday and they brought me pizza I only had 1 slice but I froze it for cheat days
HLB...I WISH A BAGEL WOULD MAKE ME GO!!! I would be eating them EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! I LOVE BAGELS!!!!!
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Hi Nicole,
Yes, 100mg Doxy alternating with Mebenzadole every other month.
-Stacey
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Nicole,
I was one of the did it all right people, eating healthy and exercising like religion. Not only did I get breast cancer, it came back 8 years later! If these protocols produced data that showed it worked for everybody, it would be ground breaking. I am giving it a try, there is nothing to lose. However, it's hard enough to get the calories in, I practice mindful eating and try not to overdo processed foods but if I feel like a potato chip or a cookie, I eat it. I want to live and am doing all I can to stay with my children as long as possible, but day in and out deprivation isn't going to work for me.
Stacey
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Nicole you have the right to feel like you do and to eat what you like...I don't think anyone here really cares about what any of us eats. Nor do we think that diet is the determining factor in surviving stage four BC...in my opinion. it's only one of many important factors...and in a way by stage fours it's kind of too late to kill the systemic infestations....
it's not eating bread that's the real problem, it's that wheat, meats, dairy in this country are full of mycotoxins...and they are carcinogenic.
People that eat junk and don't get sick, must have a very strong balance of good bacteria that can keep the bad ones in check...this balancing act is a well established fact...
Have you ever asked yourself why, even China is having problems importing our grains? And they used them only to feed their pigs, which are very sick and dying by the millions by the way? Why the Europeans won't touch are foods with a ten food pole, and the worst thing about Brexit for most brits, what keeps them up at night, is that they will have to eat our chlorinated chickens and whatever else we produce?
My question is, based on your observations and beliefs, why don't you just eat what appeals to you? Why make is an issue? Perhaps you have doubts?
Here's my homemade pizza Nicole...made with mushrooms ( good for me) and imported ricotta cheese, because I don't need our cows growth hormones fueling my BC. So, as you see...I’m not sacrificing...but not overdoing it either....
U know...Zabar will ship their bagels anywhere in the country! And they are the real thing...
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I read some years ago, that some people have what they called a longevity gene. They simply keep living. My grandmother died at 94 asleep in her own bed. Her older sister lived to be 98,
My Mom was an alcoholic for 45 yrs. Hard core dayly til she passed out. She never went to doctors, didn't have pressure, blood or sugar issues. In fact she stopped going to doctors after she had us 7 kids. She passed at 87 from pneumonia.
When Mom was about 11 she and her sister both caught the "sleeping sicknes" (long name I don't know how to spell) They were equally as sick. My mom survived and her sister died from it. Of course we were all feed on the meat/mashed potatoes/gravy diet.
Is there something that their immune systems have?
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My ex in-laws died at 94 and 90. Their diet wasn't even close to good. Red meant most nights, and fried chicken and gravy and biscuits. The ONLY veggie they ate was corn, I can't remember ever seeing fresh fruit in their house, nor juices. Their diet was surreal.
So, something else is going on.
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Oh Frisky, we cross posted! Pizza looks yummy.
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it was very yummy and as you can see very low-carb...it matters because I'm almost diabetic...
Regular pizza and fast foods, don't do it for me...don't miss them...the sweets are overly sweet, but have no substance and no real flavors to speak of...and addictive...just about garbage basically...
here's my idea of a delicious dessert made with nuts and seeds, green apples, eggs, healthy fats, pure stevia powder, mixed berries...20 grams of carbs, no sugar, mostly vegetarian proteins and delicious...
Do I look like I'm suffering??
You see that dusting? It’s all the sugar on that lemon cheesecake...the rest of the sweetness are raisins and a little pure stevia powder...crust is made of mixed nuts...
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Since 2014 my first time having stage0 BC I have eaten all organic produce, beans, organic grass fed meat, chicken and dairy....so I wasn't getting the bad kinds of that stuff ie: growth hormones, antibiotics..etc...but I was having "that stuff" ie: dairy, red meat (probably 3 times a week?) I love bread...funny thing...when I say carbs, "I am going to add in some carbs"...I do not really mean bread per say as in buying a loaf of white bread or wheat bread...but more like a bagel here or there, or maybe like some gluten free pasta or potatoes (starch) maybe have the piece of Pita bread when I have CAVA...or with a greek salad...etc. Although I see in Janes book she says brown rice is ok and whole grain stuff...so go figure.....
That pizza looks really good!! .....
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Snooky right??!! lol God bless their gut and whole body system!
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Unfortunately, organic and grass fed are not safe either...no pesticides, herbicides are great as far as fruits and vegetables are concerned, but unfortunately wet hay piled under sheds during the winter contain large amounts of mycotoxins, and the same can be said for all those silos filled with grains that will undoubtedly develop fungal infestations...
The real problem we have in this country is not of organic vs commercially produced, but one of MORALITY...unfortunately we have no morals. When it comes to protecting business interests anyth goes...we pollute and kill indiscriminately nature, people, and the overall environment.
the FDA, the USDA are a joke and statistics speak volumes about what's really going on in this country..$ is king and always rules cruelly...
Next time you walk into a hospital, realize that half of your care takers will eventually develop some form of cancer, if an heart attack doesn't destroy them first...those are the statistics...and those few people that live to 90 or 120...well God bless them, but they also never seem to know why....in my view is question of time...they might have stage 4 and not know it...it's slow growing and doesn't bother them...like my American mom that lived with inoperable lung cancer till 94...it's the equivalent of winning the lottery...
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Frisky,
Those desserts look yummy. What is the first one with the cherries called?
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It’s my low-carb version of an apple cake...would you like the recipe?
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The best I can do even if everything is bad that says organic is just continue to buy what seems like the best choice. I cannot raise my own chickens, cow...have a vegetable garden..etc.. so I just gotta get what is suppose to be the best. I am not going to start stressing over the organic not being real or not being good...I just don't want to go there..I can't, otherwise I will eat nothing and starve to death..lol. I hear what you're saying..but I don't want to go down that path. I just need to try and not get bogged down it's just to negative for me personally to sit around and then be stressed that the whole government and food system is lying..and basically poising me so I will leave that topic alone for another thread/discussion.lol
My main purpose of my post is just talking along the lines of what Jane was saying in her book and how I agree...and how I personally do not want to OVER focus on restricting myself to the point of losing too much weight and just being stressed.
Post the recipe for those they look great!
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Here's an encouraging post on facebook about COC:
Kelly Smyser Rathbun to Jane McLelland Off Label Drugs for Cancer
6 hrs ·This is my first post, and I am very new to the protocol, and have just finished reading Jane's book. I started my COC protocol two weeks ago yesterday. I am a stage 4 ER/PR+, HER2- with bone mets cancer patient. I take Faslodex, Ibrance, and Xgeva. I had my monthly appointment with my oncologist yesterday, with full blood workups. My CA 27/29 cancer marker number has been very high, 6900 last month. After only 2 weeks of COC drug cocktail my CA 27/29 was 2300. My oncologist is scratching his head, and warned me that the marker could likely go up! I am embracing some "good" news for a change!!! Has anyone else seen such dramatic change so quickly? My numbers dropped 4600 points in two weeks, keeping up with diet, meds and supplements!
EDITED TO ADD:
Kelly Smyser Rathbun My numbers have been extraordinarily high the normal range is 0-30, so even at 2300 I'm high! Although, they have climbed every month since last July, so this was wonderful news, I hope!!
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whaooo Husband...Thank you for the uplifting news...that's what we all needed to hear...
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I think the rise of the internet makes it seem like thousands of people successfully overcome late stage cancer through unconventional treatment. It can make you feel like you're not doing something right if you’re not one of them. It's FOMO. Fear Of Missing Out. Gee, just about everyone's curing themselves of cancer, why isn't it happening to me?
I don't know the Jane Mcclelland method and have no opinion about it one way or another. As adults, we're free to choose our path of treatment so I don’t judge anyone by what they chose. Have thousands been cured through her methods? Ten thousand? One hundred? Are there any unconventional treatments out there that boast a ten thousand person cure rate? Or even a five thousand person cure rate? I don't know.
I feel like we should listen to our own bodies. If you truly think that a restricted diet benefits you, great. But when you know you feel better eating more, why wouldn't you?Why believe something you read online about how you're supposed to feel when you know your body best?
I think we bargain with ourselves. If we just do this, this, this and this, our diagnosis will reverse itself. Like you said, Nicole, not everyone responds to these unconventional treatments.
I know this is a rambling post, but we can all cut ourselves some slack. It's not our fault if we don't respond to treatment, conventional or otherwise. We're not doing something wrong. We don't need to judge ourselves on every morsel we put in our mouths. We're allowed to enjoy food. I'm not taking that away from myself.
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Husband yes I saw that post today too. I think a lot of that is the Ibrance (Just MHO) ....only because she's only started Janes protocol 2 weeks ago...but hey either way that is AWESOME for her!!! Whatever works...as long as something does!!
Divine...Ramble on
Yes I definitely stand by saying that not every one responds to the unconventional treatments or the Conventional for that matter...but hopefully we all can find something , or combination of things that works for us to help us prolong our lives and time with our loved ones I am gonna try for sure..that is why we are reading her book... and I pray it works...and I am trying to do what feels really good inside so as to not be stressed. I am trying to be realistic and still see/be positive even when the realistic feels like negative things...I want to try to see the positive side. 0 -
I posted a follow up question to her on facebook to ask how long she has been on conventional treatment prior to starting the COC protocol. More information needed, but still its good to hear she is experiencing success.
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Husband...Oh good I look forward to hearing her reply. I know I stopped having my bone met pain after only 4 weeks on Ibrance....I was pain free for 3 full months... so for me it worked right away...but then stopped right away ...
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For those of you that have the time and like to cook as much as I do, here's the recipe for my New American Apple Cake...enjoy in good and not so good health!!! Nutritionally this is a complete non addictive meal...great if like me you are diabetic and can't go near the processed stuff out there.
Now, people can enjoy a delicious dessert without risking diabetes.
Ingredients
6 large Omega3 organic eggs
250 g of ricotta cheese from non rBST treated cows
1 pd organic green apples
1 lemon juice and rind
100 g almond flour
2 tsp of pure stevia powder
2 tsp baking powder
3 tsp cinnamon
25 g organic raisins
A pinch of sea salt
3 tbs of pure vanilla extract
1 tbs softened butter
25 g of flax meal
Directions
Preheat the oven at 350 degrees.
Butter up 9" spring form cake pan
In a large bowl, beat the eggs the vanilla extract, the stevia, and ricotta cheese till smooth add chia and raisins.
In another bowl cut the apples into thin slices after washing and coring, leave the skin on, add the lemon peel and juice, a pinch of salt mix together add to the egg mix.
Mix the almond flour, baking powder and cinnamon and add to apples and eggs mixture.
Mix well and pour into the greased baking pan
Bake in the center of the oven for 45 minutes or until throughly cooked.
Let the cake cool.
Cut into eight slices and serve. Optionally, top with a dollop of organic sour cream from non rBST treated cows, and mixed organic berries
Nutritional Info without sour cream and berries
• 8 Servings
• Calories: 272.2
• Total Fat: 16.8 g
• Cholesterol: 134.3 mg
• Sodium: 80.3 mg
• Total Carbs: 22.4 g
• Dietary Fiber: 6.4 g
• Protein: 11.9 g
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Thank you I hope I can get it to come out as good you have it look!!
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I edited my post to add a little more information that she posted, which was that her tumor marker had been increasing every month since last July. That sounds even more encouraging. Still not sure about the time line on when she started conventional treatment of Ibrance, Faslodex and Xgeva.
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Frisky,
Thanks for the recipe. I'm going to try it this week.
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Oh Frisky! Dang it. I came back and you edited and added more yummy photos. But thanks for the recipe, can't wait to try it.
Well, took the first night of pills for my colon cleanse. Better stack the bathroom up with books. haha This is harmless, it's just elemental magnesium Oxide and Natural Citrus Acid. Suppose to work overnight. Lets hope it gets those toxins out.
Night all
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Nicole,
The Divine Mrs, M and I have a similar approach to our stage IV bc. I mentioned that I went on a very restrictive diet, juiced, vegan, no carbs, no alcohol etc. when I was first diagnosed. I was stressed, cranky, worried about everything I ate and got into huge fights with one of my daughters who took it upon herself to be the food police. I was deeply unhappy and found little joy in my life. Bear in mind that I ate minimal carbs, little meat, lots of fruit and veg, never ate fast food or drank soda even before bc. I do admit to a wicked sweet tooth, but it’s not bad if I allow myself some indulgences. So... I decided to go back to my previous eating habits. No more stress over everything that passes my lips, no more fights with dd and a return to life on my terms. Most importantly, I am happy! My life is not focused on fighting cancer. I have been NED for eight years and have never regretted my decision to stop fretting over practically everything.
I make no claims as to why I have done so well and certainly never encourage anyone to follow my example. I just know that for me being happy and not stressing was a priority in terms of QOL. Yup, it’s “don’t worry, be happy” for me and I am entirely comfortable with it. Everyone needs to find their comfort level in dealing with bc. If it’s protocols and regimens that do it for you, great! But if what you’re doing is stressing you out,consider doing what allows you to be happy, because life can suck if you’re not.
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Exbrnxgrl.....so yea...you are basically an example of what I was saying...however couple of differences between someone like you...and someone like me... you have a Grade 1 SLOW dividing cancer...I have Grade 3 FAST...you only have bone mets no organ involvement and you are responding well to AI's...
I do believe that Grade and lack of organ involvement play a big role (but that is just my opinion).
I did mention in the "Lets talk Sugar Thread" that the only health issues my mom ever had was a massive heart attack at 45 years old...but let me tell you why... she was smoking 2 packs a day and drank 5 cups of coffee a day and started doing Aerobics!!!!! YUP..she thought she was fat at 120lbs... lol this was in 1985...her heart attack killed off 1 and half arteries...shes been running on 1 and half artery since 1985.
Either my mom never got/had cancer because her body fought it off OR just this morning I realized something my mom has been on Lovastatin>spelling(the cholesterol drug)...+ a blood pressure med + metformin+ baby aspirin for over 30 years now...and she had a hysterectomy after I was born because they said they found PRE cancerous cells in her cervix. so they took out everything...so her body was not making estrogen.!!!!!! I am thinking that my mom without even knowing it was blocking a bunch of pathways!!!!
Crazy ...just crazy....still amazing with her diet that she is still going this long..we call her the "Energizer Bunny" she just keeps going...and going...and going
lol as I was talking to her she was eating Drakes Coffee Cakes... *smirk* lol0
