Can we talk Sugar/Fresh Fruit and Carbs etc?
Hi ladies. I am so tired of getting conflicting information. Whether it be about medication, exercise or food.. It seriously makes me want to give up even looking for anything that can help improve my health.
So I have been trying to cut out carbs (not completely) I am giving my self one cheat day each week for carbs like pasta and maybe some ice cream.
On the sugar side with regards to fresh fruit I been reading conflicting info. Even "Chris beat Cancer" changed his original theory from "Fresh fruit is sugar".. to "Fresh fruit is ok for cancer" other sources as well say the same thing. Some say fresh fruit is ok some say no??? I personally have been eating (recently) fresh fruit to include, Strawberries, Apples, Kiwi and I was having watermelon but worried it's too sugary. I feel like if I was too eat a bunch of fruit before bed or only very sweet fruit like watermelon etc maybe that would be bad? I wanted to see what you all think? Watermelon is a great detoxifier though 
With reference to carbs. I know there are bad and good carbs. This gets confusing as well. For example Granola is considered a carb...yet if you look at the Keto Diet they do allow Grain Free granola I believe so is all granola bad? I know that Quick Oats are bad but Old Fashion (cook on the stove) oatmeal is suppose to be good but isn't that just carbs and then bad anyway or is it that Low GI index stuff is ok? For example I have read that Manna Bread or Eziekliel Bread are good and that most breads are made with refined flour and are fast-burning carbs that turn to sugar in your bloodstream, spiking your insulin. Sprouted Grain breads are slow burning carbs (low-glycemic) and the healthiest bread you can eat? Yet those have gluten which is bad and can cause inflammation.
So...what fresh fruits and carbs (if any) do you all feel are good and what do you eat? 
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Eat what seems reasonable to you. Don’t be strict with your diet. Portion control is probably the best approach. I eat everything. Meat. Carbs. Dessert. Occasional alcoholic drink. I did increase fruits, veggies, nuts and cut out diet pop which is terrible for you but a weakness of mine. I am 8+ years dealing with mbc and its not because I followed some stringent diet. In other words, not sure why the exceptional response to treatment tho glad of it.
Yes, I want to eat healthy but I am not turning down a slice of my lemon meringue pie. Or iced brownie with nuts. But I’m not going to go overboard with them, either. I don’t drink much, and a margarita or two in the hot summer or some coffee moonshine in the cold winter isn’t gonna make or break me.
The main reason I don’t usually eat fruits and veggies after five or six pm is because all their water content keep me up all night going to the bathroom. So instead in the evening I might do something like yogurt, rice or peanut butter toast.
The first year of mbc, I ate watermelon till it was coming out my ears because chemo altered my taste buds and it was a food that I could tolerate. I will always eat fresh fruit in season, strawberries, apples, nectarines, oranges, Bing cherries. Dh grows a vegetable garden and we eat zucchini, tomatoes, green peppers, cabbage and more all summer long.
I think we are all smart enough to know what to eat, what our bodies need and to be moderate with how much we eat. Use online advice as a guideline, but don’t be afraid to cross the lines where you see fit.
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I have been Ned for 8 1/2 years and eat anything I want. Pasta, ice cream, chocolate, fruit, etc. I ate a ton of watermelon during chemo and one of my liver mets disappeared after a few rounds of taxotere & herceptin. Most longterm survivors will tell you the same thing. I wouldn’t stress so much over it and eat everything in moderation
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I am in the same camp as Mrs. M and Lauriesh. I eat lots of fruit, especially delicious summer fruits (Can you overdose on cherries 😉?). And like them, I have also hit the 8 year mark.
I did start out restricting sugar, carbs, juicing and generally being compulsive about my diet. Let’s just say that when I went back to a balanced, healthy diet that allows for treats and indulgences I was much happier, as was my family 😁. I know that some consider my approach too passive and lacking in an active fight against bc, but it works for me. Everyone needs to follow a diet that they are comfortable with
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Hi. Everyone here at Stage IV wants to live as long as possible. So I am guessing we look at ways to enhance our health and current meds, whether it be diet changes, supplements, exercise modifications or alternative meds.
I don't deprive myself of foods that bring me comfort. I have settled on moderation as Lauriesh noted above with reduced carbs, refined sugars and alcohol. I still love my coffee flavored peanut MMs and the occasionally glass of wine.
I do make an elixer of fresh lemon juice, ginger and garlic and I have added more walnuts to my diet. I don't know if these changes really help..maybe it is just psychological!
If you enjoy the research of making dietary adjustments, go for it and have fun exploring. You will know when it just exhausts and frustrates you. And who needs that? Ha.
S
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I go with smaller amounts of "nutrient dense" carbs. Those with the highest nutritional or anti cancer value and lower glycemic index. The lowest carb (and most cancer-active) fruits are berries (all kinds of berries). Also, stone fruits and kiwi are low. I limit other fruits to infrequent consumption but I do have apples and citrus here and there. Luckily the low glycemic fruits appeal the most to me anyway.
I focus on above-ground veggies that I love and which are great for phytonutrients.
Re non fruit carbs, same rule. I eat lentils, quinoa, sweet potato etc that have a lot of nutrition per carb. I do not eat rice, potato, white flour normally.
For a treat, once in a while, I do go off this plan. If I am invited to a dinner party I eat what's served. Here and there an alcoholic drink. or an order of fries. So I am not rigid but I am mostly very careful re my diet.
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Wow ladies thanks so much for all that you shared. I am really shocked that there are more than a few of you Stage IV that are over 5 years out and you eat what ever you want!!! All I have been hearing even on this site is that one of the pathways that cancer loves is sugar. So yea I started getting worried about that and felt I needed to get more strict, well way more strict about that intake.
I have to say I totally agree with Sandibeach to know when it becomes frustrating etc I was feeling a little like that. I do have a few glasses of wine probably one night a month (before cancer that was 3 nights a week.) So I have restricted that lessened that but I still enjoy it when I have it.
After hearing about you all eating what ever you want when ever...that is making me feel less stressed about having a treat more than once a week.
I look forward to hearing more of what others are doing in this area as well.
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I was dx with diabetes waaaaay before cancer. So carb counting was a main priority for me. I was taught “if it’s white, don’t bite”. Cauliflower an exception to that.
Melons are low carb, cherries and grapes are sugar bombs.
Suggest going online to a reputable site, look up the carb content of what you are looking for. Serving size is important too. Everything in moderation.
Try CalorieKing.
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Nicole,
I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that you were now feeling less stressed over treats. If a restricted diet causes stress, especially stress created by violating the rules of your diet, then it’s not going to be helpin the long run. When I was trying to maintain a strict anti-cancer diet I got into more than a few arguments with my younger dd every time I “cheated”. I can’t tell you how much things improved when I returned to a simple, moderate diet and allowed myself to eat anything I wanted. Of course this doesn’t mean I’m existing on Oreos, soda and chips and I’m fairly certain that none of the others who responded do either!
Eating is also a great social occasion and it’s much more relaxing to go to a restaurant or be a guest at someone’s home and not worry about every bite that you put in your mouth. Yes, we all want to live as long as possible but personally, I want to enjoy my life and not spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about everything that might cause my bc to progress. That is far more stressful for me, but I understand that it may be important to others, especially if it makes them feel that they are being active fighters.
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NicoleRod, I use a free app called Mealime for low carb recipes if that inspires you!
S
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I have/had the same question.
I am going to see a couple of professionals about it.
I have read "how to starve cancer " , may be I have read it not attentively enough - I still not understand what food the author deems good and bad.
I need to look more into glycemic index I reckon.
For now survival is my priority and I do not need cakes to enjoy life (although I love good quality ones and can eat them in huge quantities as I am naturally slim).
So the sweets were stopped. I would not stress if I had one every now and again but I just do not want it now- may be later. I was sorry to say bye to freshly squeezed orange juice - I would usually have a couple of glasses a week.
Alcohol never was my thing although I could enjoy a drink every now and again but I do not miss cutting it at all.
Bread, white rice , potatoes and white pasta went. I kind of miss them but not too much. I reverted to ryvita crackers and chickpea/wholemeal ones but even with those I try to minimise them.
Not much meat either but we have tried minimising it for a while. Diary only goat/sheep.
I eat much more often my favourite salad - tomato feta lettuce and avocado with ryvita. I always loved it , I probably should eat it every day but I kind of eat with family as well - I think I will eat it more often.
Trying to leave 16 hours free of food. I must be so stressed I do not want to eat much now. I honestly do not feel or look stressed but something must have clicked inside me - mind , I knew we should be decreasing portions even before diagnosis. Now I eat far less and I am still fine. Losing weight though... hopefully it will stop.
Glad to hear watermelon is ok - I think when glycemic index is discussed it can be a bit misleading because it does not take into account some other properties of food like typical size of portions - I need to read more on it. Watermelon is 98% water so I fail to see how it can be harmful because although his total dry matter content is sugar there is just so little dry matter in it . I stand to be corrected though.
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I guess my thought is cancer will find a way to eat or mutate, whether it is by glycolysis, ketosis or chomping away at our muscle/organs. That is what too much reading has done to me..so I just don't want to live by restricted diets anymore.
In my earlier diagnoses of cancer, I juiced, ate vegetarian and avoided anything that screamed potential for cancer.
Then during chemotherapy, nauseous with zero appetite, I ate anything that gave me protein and calories. I consumed a LOT of bacon and mashed potatoes. I drank Boost and added that dreadful Carnation instant mix to milk. So many freaking chemicals, but it kept my body nourished.
Now at Stage IV, I am still vigilant about what I eat, a bit more relaxed. I drink more fluids, plus have a window of 14+ hours where I do not consume any calories at all.
I feel great. I certainly would never discount what others feel what is working for them. That would not be supportive and not me at all.
NicoleRod, do your research and find your comfort zone. Whatever you chose..find peace with your decision.
S
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Sandibeach,
I like the idea of finding your comfort zone! I also apologize to those of you trying to live sugar free, carb free etc. I am a terrible example, I’m afraid, but I have no stress over what I put in my mouth and I am comfortable. Again, I eat a largely vegetarian diet, love fruits and veg, don’t drink soda or eat fast food, am not overweight, rarely drink alcoholic. But... these were my eating habits before dx as well. And, I truly have no idea why I have done so well. Who knows 🤷🏻♀️
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Sandi thanks for the mealtime app.
I have always drank 40 oz of water a day whether it be seltzer or regular spring water. I never drank any other fruit drinks or soda so that was never an issue for me. Like I said above though my weekends- yes plural Friday, Sat & Sunday I had wine and cheese and salami's or bacon wrapped tater tots..so was pretty bad for the past few years. So I know that I don't want to go back to that. (I gave up all pork completely when I got diagnosed stage 4.) During the week I had pasta maybe once or twice tops and the rest was veggies and chicken or beef some maybe 2 nights no meats at all.I thought I was relatively healthy. I cut down on dairy so I am not having cereal in the mornings but I hate that I was even feeling bad 3 times a week to have a little half and half in my cup of coffee
So I think I am going to add that back in.I think after hearing all your input I am definitely not going to be as strict as I originally thought because I do not want to feel stressed or like I am depriving myself that would be counterproductive (as you all mentioned).
I think people that have no problem eating little to no carbs and no sugar at all and no dairy and no meat if it works for them great. I know I cannot do that and I guess I don't want to either. I just it's just about finding a balance and that's what I am going to try to do.
Oh I wanted to ask if anyone knows if Chicken Sausage is really unhealthy. Not to eat all the time but once in a while I saw there was an organic ones at costco and tried the sample and they were so good...but I think those are considered processed meat right? Even all beef organic uncurred hot dogs are they a no no?
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We also buy nitrite/nitrate free uncured bacon, deli meat and hotdogs.
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see the content. Are there nitrates , glutamate , sugar and preservatives in it ? Google what particularly is bad about processed meat and assess those sausages against it.
I eat organic ones from riverford - like once a fortnight one or two. I think it is ok as they are high on healthy food but I have not checked ingredients , I just trust them. With Costco you have list of ingredients to go by.
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I drink lots of water, too. Sometimes with lemon. It is a good idea for everyone, not just those with cancer. It's generally my go-to drink.
I drink one cup of coffee a day in the morning and have been for 30 years. I get far less headaches with this routine. I use organic milk and one packet of Stevia.
If you read the book “The Blue Zones", its about 7 areas around the world where people live the longest. One unifying factor is many eat more large amounts of fruits and vegetables and nuts than meat. They are also social and stay active tho not obsessively so.
Nicole, I remember being afraid of food that first year I was diagnosed, so I understand your concerns. I didn't know if I was poisoning myself. The book “AntiCancer" by David Servan‑Schreiber. Is a good read, too, giving some dietary as well as other advice.
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Yup just checked them they are good no preservatives all the ingredients are chicken, asiago cheese spices etc. nothing bad.
Divine.. Thanks for mentioning you felt similar the first year. I think a lot of my worrying and 2nd guessing is probably going to calm down once this has a chance to settle in. That is reassuring that you felt that way too.
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For many reasons, I'm not a huge fan of researching the internet for information. My preferred method is to read good, informative, well researched books written (mostly) by doctors or experts in their field. Not dry, boring books, either. They have to be readable and interesting and written in layman's terms. We can't always confirm something on the internet is coming from a reliable source. A book delves deeper and gives a more comprehensive view into the subject matter.
Books like: “Mind Over Medicine” and “Radical Remission” as well as the others I’ve mentioned, gave me good insight and I benefitted from reading them more than doing choppy internet searches. While the books touch on diet, they also discuss other aspects of our life in relationship to what we are experiencing. That appeals to my senses, as they address the whole person, which is really what the basis of holistic medicine is. I most definitely put a lot of faith in traditional medicine yet we can find additional ways to treat our whole selves.
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Well said. I do like reading especially if its like you said Layman terms. I need "easy reads" because I have struggled in that area of comprehension all through out my years in school and after. However, if the book is an easy read I love to read.
I am going to look into some that you mentioned. When we move next month to Virginia next month I am also trying to find an Integrative Oncologist...I think it would be great to have my regular MO and also one that thinks outside the box and holistically as well. I may even make a post to see if anyone knows of anyone in that area.
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Had to chime in to say “grain free granola" is delicious just like some regular granola is, but most that I've seen have added sugar. They might be “paleo" and use coconut sugar but they aren't keto and probably not low carb either due to sugars.
I choose my way of eating not so much because I think it will cure my cancer but because I absolutely have to keep my weight down and I do have to restrict certain things in order to do that. Portion control is important, but having lost a large amount of post menopausal weight before my diagnosis, I know what worked to get me out of plateaus etc. so I need to stick to that as much as possible.
I do limit fruit, I did Nutrisystem and even they, being a very conventional diet plan and not at all keto, recommend unlimited vegetables but very limited amounts of fruit for weight loss.
Even so, half a banana at breakfast or half an apple won't “upset the apple cart" 😉 very much even for me
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Divine , I believe books have similar downsides to internet - are only as good as authors sources and competence. I have medical background so sieving through it is probably easier - although by no means that easy as I do not dig into it at a biochemistry level myself so I am still not sure about fruit ! I settled with eating berries ( with how much they cost I doubt I could eat that much anyway) and acid/ish anyone's watery ones - kiwis , green apples although not too much.
Absolutely agree re whole person, have read recently book about forgiveness and cancer - it is written by religious person but it would be suitable for secular people like myself as well. I think it is spot on. I did not buy it myself , it was sent to me by a friend of my partner when she found out about my diagnosis . Both times I had cancer after periods of great stress in my life and a good portion of resentment.
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One dietary change that I did make upon my initial mets diagnosis 13 years ago was that I started buying only organic milk (I use fat free), and mostly organic fruit and veggies. and also I pretty much stopped eating any kind of red meat. With chicken, I looked for antibiotic-free chicken (now much easier to find, thankfully) and for a number of years, I stuck with only chicken and fish or turkey. I do wonder if that kept me NED for so many years. As the years went on, though, I started adding back in red meat -- mostly careful about where I got it, but not always. I also added in hot dogs (mostly turkey) and some other favorite foods like salami. I do wonder if that played a part in my recent second mets diagnosis.
As for sweets, I have to say that for the year before this second mets diagnosis, I was pretty vigilant and tried to stay away from sweets, with only an occasional scoop of ice cream or a cookie here and there. For the first time in my life, I also exercised regularly in that year before the diagnosis. But look at me! Didn't help, I guess, because I was diagnosed again.
Long story short -- I think avoid some obvious things ((like processed meats) and try to eat healthfully.
Bev
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Yea I have since 2014 Ate 90% organic. All my meat, was organic and grass fed and so was my Dairy (when I use to buy milk) All my produce also all organic.
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I’m one year out and the first year I was afraid to put anything into my mouth that might contribute to cancer. Never had red meat , sugar , dairy, alcohol , grains , you name it. I was strictly Keto but without all the bacon and meat , cheese ect. I ate a Lot of veg , soup , looked up Keto breads ect. It was good in the beginning in that I feel it really helped. I became NED very quickly , but I was also miserable at my lack of options. I still eat very healthy but I have incorporated bananas and apples back in as well as sweet potato, quinoa , and Ezekiel bread.
I always pair anything that is a bit higher In sugar (like apples and banana) with a protein or fat. So usually peanut or nut butter with hemp seeds or chia. Adding those can help with any spikes in insulin and keep sugar levels more mellow. So there’s always that. I always feel better when I do it that way.
I have eased up in that sometimes I’ll have a handful of chips , where I wouldn’t dare last year , or take some sips of my husbands beer. I feel a lot more relaxed and less deprived that way. I was honestly getting miserable thinking about Everything I put in my mouth. It was taking enjoyment out of eating for me, and I absolutely love to eat (you’d never tell by looking at me)
I agree, there’s so much conflicting info that it can be so confusing and stressful to navigate it all . You just don’t know what’s totally right. I suggest doing what you feel is best for your body and feeling really good about it
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as a person who specialized in getting a master of integrative nutrition focused on oncology care, I was totally perplexed when I received my stage 4 de novo diagnosis. I thought I ate all the right foods, always organic, mostly paleo, very low carb, lots of veggies esp leafy greens, etc...
So I decided after a lot of questioning and soul searching (took about a year after my diagnosis) to allow myself to simply relax and enjoy eating. Period. And not stress about an occasional hotdog (which I had two last week at the beach!) and not stress about eating a blueberry muffin for breakfast rather than a protein with sautéed veggies.
Honestly, I don’t feel much different and everyone tells me I look great. I have gained some weight but I probably needed to. I actually wonder if I maybe had developed some level of disordered eating being so intense about it all, prior hon my diagnosis.
It’s funny, it’s like I’ve gone completely the opposite way with food now that I have MBC. I just bought non-organic mangos and tomatoes the other day (gasp!!!)
😂😂😂 I don’t care anymore and it feels so good not to care!!!!!!!!!!
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I am also on the relax and enjoy (mostly healthy) eating pathway. I also find information on the whole sugar thing conflicting and have researched this a lot in connection with BC. I do a lot of complementary treatments and am willing to try anything that works. I have been told since birth that sugar is "bad" by my parents. I grew up in a very strict, vegan, organic, macrobiotic household in my early childhood years. There was a lot of guilt associated with eating anything that was not within the macrobiotic parameters and sugar was the worst offender. It kind of messed me up when I became an adolescent and I developed a slightly unhealthy relationship with food. I no longer restrict any food or food groups and go by the "everything is okay in moderation" and "eat a mostly healthy diet but do eat a small to moderate amount of sweets or chips or pizza or whatever else if/when you crave it". I eat as much organic as I can, consume milk, yogurt (kefir actually) and butter that is not only organic but only from whole milk and grass-fed cows, eat a lot of healthy, plant-based fats, try to keep as much variety and vegetables in my diet and eat whole grains mostly rather than white starches. With fruit, there are so many antioxidants, powerful nutrients, anti-inflammatory properties and other healing powers, I am wagering on the side of the bet that those benefits are helping me more than the sugar from such fruit is harming me as far as breast cancer is concerned. Of course, none of us knows for sure but this has been my educated guess. As an example of how I think about this (on a somewhat unrelated, non-cancer issue), I had oral thrush a while back from one of my BC treatments. It was so painful, I was having trouble sleeping and normal home remedies that usually work were not working. I then did a bunch of research and read pineapple helped with this and gave it a shot. I was very suspicious of this as sugar is supposed to be "bad" for fungal infections as it "feeds" the fungus and pineapple contains a lot of sugar. Well, the pineapple was a miracle. Within a day, the pain was gone and the thrush was gone in 2 days. All I did was rub pieces of pineapple on the insides of my cheek where the thrush was located once a day. Yes, sugar is bad for fungal infections. However, the power of the bromelain enzyme in pineapple to zap the fungus far outweighs the sugar factor. Also, although sugar is considered "inflammatory", pineapple, papaya, grapes, cherries, many other berries and many other fruits are anti-inflammatory. I wish we knew for sure exactly the best way to eat. However, for now, this is my educated guess.
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Love from Philly and JFL... Wow my husband and I just read your posts. I know, it really is amazing how sometimes the supposably "healthy" "BEST" options don't always make a difference. One year I did green smoothies every morning and for lunch my dinner was all veggies and sweet potato everything organic. After 4 weeks I developed acid reflux...turns out too much fiber. Stopped that went back to cereal for breakfast and back to adding in some meats and chicken at dinner and acid reflux went away.
I am determined now after reading this thread to find my "happy medium". I know that will include an ice cream sunday or almond crossiant , slice of pizza here and there and will definitely include wine with my hubby at least 1 night a month. These are the little things I really enjoy so I think I probably will be better off leaving those in my eating plan.
Thanks again all for all the input and personal stories.
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great to know about the pineapple and thrush jFL! That’s what we would call “a clinical pearl.” 😃
Nichole - so glad you are taking this all in. I think if adhering to a strict diet induces a ton of stress and anxiety, then perhaps this is not the best choice for someone.
At this point in my life, I am working to remain as calm and free from stress as I possibly can. I am incredibly sensitive (emotionally and energetically) and I can get stressed out easily just by some lunatic calling me nasty names on the streets (yes can happen often in Philly, unfortunately). My skin is not so thick and these kinds of things can bring me to tears or into a rage of anger and frustration and feeling helplessness and deep grief for the state of the world and violent conditions so many people are used to living in.
So - I can stress easily. If food is something that I can allow to be joyous in my life, then I am sooooo thrilled to have be so 🤗 hu
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I am loving this discussion, as it is something that I believe most of us have wrestled with.
One thing that may also influence how we regard diet choices is personal experience. My younger sister lived a “clean" lifestyle before anyone even used that term. She spent 30 years making sure every aspect of her life was clean. Shortly after her 50th birthday she was dx'ed with a uterine sarcoma and passed away about 4 months later. She was shocked that she had cancer, she was bitter when she saw others who did not live clean, but seemed healthy. It was devastating and clearly had an influence over my view of diets/lifestyles that are rigid and restrictive.
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Philly, I am in full agreement with you about reducing stress. Although I do not think it causes cancer—(I know numerous people with far greater stress than I had who don't have cancer)—I do believe lowering stress can aide in healing. When I think back on all the ungodly shit that I used to put up with before and at the time I was diagnosed with mbc I wonder what the hell was I thinking. I tried to cover all the bases plus there were simply too many bases, I was spread way too thin. No doubt being an adult child of an alcoholic plus my other parent being mentally ill had a lot to do with my taking on too much. These days I pay a lot more attention to potential stressors and nip many of then in the bud before they start to fester.
Wow, Caryn, what a tragic and sobering story about your sister. I am so sorry for her and for you that you lost her so quickly. I can understand her bitterness. I know a few people personally who are overweight, overstressed and/or have smoked like a chimney their whole life that are my age or older who do not have a major health issue like me. Not that I lived a super clean life, but I wasn't abusive with food, was always active, very little alcohol and quit smoking over 30 years ago. I wouldn't say I'm bitter, it's just the unfairness of it. The randomness. It also really irritates me that someone like Steven Tyler of Aerosmith who says with the money he spent on all the coke he snorted up his nose he could have bought a small island in the Bahamas, is still out there livin' his best life. Ditto for some of those other rock stars like Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones.
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