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Can we talk Sugar/Fresh Fruit and Carbs etc?

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  • JFL
    JFL Member Posts: 1,373
    edited August 2019
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    I started the intermittent fasting over a year ago and it works really well with my body. My body likes shutting down the kitchen after dinner and not eating until breakfast. I go 13 hours without eating. I would like to do 14 but it is just not realistic with my work schedule. I did have to increase the amount of food I eat to counteract weight loss from the intermittent fasting but my weight has been stable on this system. Actually, I am gaining weight and muscle as of recent, since I started ashwaganda a few months ago. And my appetite is suddenly voracious.

    Like Divine, I stick with meals - 3 meals and 1 afternoon snack most days. I spent many, many years skipping breakfast and grazing all day long without eating large meals and it did increase my blood sugar levels and mess with my insulin. It was not that the grazing caused the high blood sugar levels, per se, it was just that I had a hard time getting a handle on my eating patterns when I grazed. It wasn't until I started eating 3 square meals a day that I stopped dieting completely, shed a few pounds naturally and my blood sugar levels decreased and stabilized and my insulin levels normalized/re-sensitized. I also eat a big lunch now. Once I started eating a big lunch, I am no longer super hungry in the evening. To each his/her own. We are all different. For me, I need to go through the cycle of being hungry and becoming full to feel satisfied. If I don't feel that change, I won't feel satisfied even if my belly is full. Everyone is different as far as what works.

  • heidihill
    heidihill Member Posts: 1,856
    edited September 2019
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    Illimae, thanks for sharing the MDA nutrition guide. I have been on 5 to 10 portions of fruit and veggies for the last 10 years. I cut down to 5 to 7 the last few years because I was starting to gain weight.

    I have also been an intermittent faster (minimum 12 hours) for the last eight years. Along with exercise, these strategies keep my blood sugar and insulin very low.


  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 546
    edited September 2019
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    Sorry can not figure it out from your signature- when were your metastasis diagnosed?

  • heidihill
    heidihill Member Posts: 1,856
    edited September 2019
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    I was de novo metastatic when I was diagnosed in 2007.

  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 546
    edited September 2019
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    thank you for responding, Heidi. I t looks like this lifestyle has not harmed and likely helped you so thank you for sharing.

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited September 2019
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    Well from what I have been reading on this site people with bone mets only can go many many many years longer than those of us with mets in organ...I don't know how much of that has to do with nutrition/sugar

  • heidihill
    heidihill Member Posts: 1,856
    edited September 2019
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    There are enough studies now that indicate lifestyle changes help. Of course individuals are harder to scope out. In my case I can't say whether it was solely the treatment, including my current one of only 5 mg tamoxifen, or lifestyle or both. And whether liver/organ mets were hindered specifically. I know that my MO is always trying to feel my liver during physical exams or maybe he's taking a measure of my belly fat, making sure it isn't expanding. At some point he did want me to take metformin around Christmas to help metabolize all the cookies. I cut down on sugar rather than take metformin.

  • JACK5IE
    JACK5IE Member Posts: 654
    edited September 2019
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    Hi all. I've been following this since my MBC diagnosis.

    https://foodforbreastcancer.com/

    The one thing my doctor did say was to avoid soy and vitamin supplements with the exception of Vitamin D, so I follow that advice pretty strictly. I eat about 90% organic now. I only use a half teaspoon of sugar in my one cup of morning coffee, but I do have that occasional yummy dessert. I try to eat healthy most of the time but I don't deprive myself. We all have enough to worry about without stressing about every bite we put into or mouths.

    I have recently started buying organic red grapes from my grocery store that are soooo good. The link states this about red grapes.

    Grapes are highly recommended for breast cancer

    grapes

    "Grapes contain polyphenols such as resveratrol and delphinidin that can act as antioxidants, antiangiogenics, and selective estrogen receptor modifiers. Grapes also contain lupeol, pterostilbene, oleanolic acid, myricetin, and fisetin. Each of these polyphenols have been found to have chemopreventative properties. Muscadine grapes also contain ellagic acid. Green or white grapes have less powerful anticancer properties than red grapes since they contain fewer polyphenols. Note that grape seed oil and grape seed extract are covered in another web page."

    I hope this helps some of you.

  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,065
    edited September 2019
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    Gee, Jackie, since grapes are good for us, that ought to include wine! 😉😄


  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 546
    edited September 2019
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    Nicol, they do have better prognosis indeed. But if you think that average was quoted 2-3 years (and that is life , not even until next progression for which I guess average is measured in months ) and that Heidi had 10 years no progression while in all booklets it says that bone metastasis go into organs invariably (let alone can progress within bone to the extent of its collapse , pain and immobility it results in) then you must realise she is in rather exceptional position. It does not prove anything re food of course but to me it is good enough info. By the way she seems to be relatively mainstream with her diet - just 12 hours intermittent fasting is basically a normal lifestyle with either not eating before bed or not eating after waking up for 4 hours in total. I am sure many people do it anyway and do not even consider it any special way of dealing with food. Exercise goes without saying for even half healthy life except exceptional people ( I can count on fingers of one hand people older than 30 that I met in who were/appeared to be not suffering the effects of sedentary lifestyle while not engaging in any physical activity) . And 7-8 portions of fruit and veggies is actually a normal food , it's just that we are so far removed from the norm that we treat even 5 as an achievement. I remember bejng gobsmacked at fruit/veg portion definition that counted 15 (!) grapes as a portion. So one eats a cup of grapes then has processed cereal/chips/yogurt with sugar/chicken for the rest of the day and one is convinced they are "healthy"..

    Resuming- Heidi did not do any special diet from my point of view which is great and makes it more realistic for people like me who do not see how to consume 6-7 veggie smoothies a day, hate kale and find idea of going vegan scary and worse it only with a firm proof that otherwise I am killing myself.

  • JACK5IE
    JACK5IE Member Posts: 654
    edited September 2019
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    @DivineMrsM...you would think! Happy

  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 546
    edited September 2019
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    Can someone clever explain me about keto diet - if our blood is meant to have certain level of glucose in it anyway and if we are at/below that level already how going on keto diet is going to be helpful?

  • Askmissa
    Askmissa Member Posts: 32
    edited September 2019
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    We are not in control. Obsession over what we eat doesn’t put us in control of our health and life. Moderation

  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 546
    edited September 2019
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    I disagree with you classing interest and desire to maximise one's chances as obsession. I know I am not in control. I still am not going to have a snooze on a railway track but will choose more appropriate place fo it. The same with food.

  • lauriesh
    lauriesh Member Posts: 82
    edited September 2019
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    I belong to a Facebook group for mbc outliers ( 5 + years) . We did a survey of everyone’s diet. Of the 30 who responded, only 1 ate a strict diet - no sugar, vegan, etc. The other 29 respondents ate “ a normal diet” including sugar, white carbs, alcohol,etc.

    obviously, eating a strict diet is not necessary to be a long term mbc survivor


  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 546
    edited September 2019
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    yes lauriesh , I remember you posting it and I made a mental note of it , thank you for that , Ot is a very valuable information.

    Still as I responded to it elsewhere of in a cohort of MBC patients there was one vegan per 100 and in a cohort of long term survivors there was one vegan per 30 it means that being vegan trebled one's chances.

    There must be some reasons why no carbs for example is recommended so I wanted to examine those and decide for myself but I am failing at it because I am too lazy to dig up the biochemistry and physiology of the body so I thought someone may know them already.

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited September 2019
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    Askmissa...I do not see in your signature that you are Stage 4, but actually Stage 1. Please be aware this post is in the STAGE 4 Breast Cancer ONLY section.

  • DorothyB
    DorothyB Member Posts: 143
    edited September 2019
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    Laurie, in your survey of the 5+ year MBC survivors, did you also ask about cardio and / or strength training exercises? Curious about that.

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited September 2019
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    dorothy are you stage 4?? If not please message laurie privately as this thread is for stage 4 breast cancer only.

  • olma61
    olma61 Member Posts: 1,016
    edited September 2019
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    Exercise is one thing that conventional medicine DOES unreservedly advocate for people with MBC (and all cancer patients).

    They aren't so sure about diet. Or even post treatment weight loss -- that is only being studied now.

    I do what I think works for me and what works for me, may not make a difference for someone else. I am primarily concerned about getting to and maintaining a healthy weight. Low carb/keto has helped me with this. I really could not take off much of my post-menopause weight til I went low carb.

    As far as the rationale or possible connection to carbs/sugar, increased insulin levels and cancer and possilbe benefit of keto diet - even when you are non-diabetic, high carb meals cause a spike in insulin levels because your blood glucose rises highest after a high carb meal. When you go for a three hour fasting blood sugar test you are given a high carb drink so they can obeserve the effect - if your glucose returns to normal after the three hours, then your body is producing enough insulin. But the rise in insulin is what seems to be possibly problematic in terms of cancer growth.

    This article from CureToday explains it in layperson's terms:


    https://www.curetoday.com/publications/cure/2019/winter-2019/sweet-surrender


    I don't obsess or preach anything. I do what I feel I need to do in my own situation. And I don't think occasional treats will kill anyone. It is what we do on a daily basis that matters.

    ADDED: I have never been close to diabetic. My morning blood sugar is and was usually in the 80s even when I was terribly overweight and eating candy whenever I felt like it. I have a theory that my very efficient insulin production may have contributed to my cancer. Just a hunch. May not have been the sole cause but maybe it helped.

  • moderators
    moderators Posts: 8,052
    edited September 2019
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    Hi to all!!

    This is just a gentle reminder that this thread belongs to the Stage IV/Metastatic Breast Cancer ONLY forum, so we do ask that those not diagnosed with stage IV breast cancer respect the reserved nature of this forum.

    If you have not been diagnosed but have questions about Stage IV Breast Cancer, you can certainly post in the following threads:

    If you are not Stage IV but have questions you may post here'

    Not diagnosed with a Recurrence or Metastases but concerned

    If you are a caregiver or family member with a stage IV diagnosis, there is also a forum entitled: For family and Caregiver's with Stage IV.

    Thank you for understanding!

    The Mods