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Can we talk Sugar/Fresh Fruit and Carbs etc?

13

Comments

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited August 2019

    Thanks Santa...I am leary of anything dairy because I get bad inflammation from dairy. My "cheat" on the weekend is ice cream and half and half in my decaf coffee once or twice a week any more than that with dairy or a lot of carbs and my nasal passages are all swollen.

    Is that being "a form of dairy"...will that react in the body like dairy?

  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 545
    edited August 2019

    I seen today a doctor , complementary therapist. She is an advocate of organic vegan diet. She does not mind carbs as long as they are not refined ones. She does not mind fruit. She does not mind potato. She does not mind pasta, noodles etc - as long as it is not a mono mean but combined with veggies. But vegan , ie no meat fish dairy or eggs...

    On my way back from her as I did not have time to buy anything suitable in the shop I got sandwich on a train- not good stuff . Was eating it overwhelmed with how much I was required to take, do and confused about diet.

  • DorothyB
    DorothyB Member Posts: 143
    edited August 2019

    It is confusing! My integrative medicine doctor wants me to get 60% of my protein from plant based sources and is OK w/ me doing meat, cheese, eggs, etc for the rest.

    It helps me to remember that this is a lifestyle journey - we aim for this, but we will never be exactly whatever 100% of the time.

  • olma61
    olma61 Member Posts: 1,016
    edited August 2019

    Nicole, thanks for the heads up about the protein shake on Amazon! Too bad, it looked like a good option.

    The "sugar" topic came up in the "Will MBC Become Chronic?" thread too and by coincidence, I was at my infusion center yesterday and one of the magazines in the waiting room had an article about the sugar connection to cancer. They did mention the PI3K mutation but they seemed to be advocating keeping insulin levels low for everyone and even those without cancer as a preventive measure. And...even for those not overweight. The anti-sugar advocacy seems to be going mainstream.

    The article is on the website, so I will share the link with you all:

    Sweet Surrender: Will Cutting Out Sugar Help You Prevent Cancer?

    https://www.curetoday.com/publications/cure/2019/winter-2019/sweet-surrender


    edited to add: This also may be why the metformin "alternative" cancer regimen seems to work!

  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 2,310
    edited August 2019

    Wherever the western diet (processed food, white flour, & sugar) takes hold, a spike in cancer soon follows. The sugar connection is not disputed by most docs anymore.

  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 545
    edited August 2019

    But its not that clear what part of that diet is then mostly responsible for it. Is it because we eat plane too much ? Is it because we eat non organic meat and other cheaply mass produced food which is harmful as a result of an effort to make it affordable to masses? Is it because we eat on too many occasions not leaving enough hours in one go without eating? Is it because of processed food? Is sugar in natural sources - fruit, honey- any better? Is yeast bad?

  • nicolerod
    nicolerod Member Posts: 2,877
    edited August 2019

    Then we think we are all good eating organic and then this stuff...

    https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/10/12/fraud-farmers...

    I only saw this today because apparently the one farmer that was sentenced to 10 years, killed himself. I didn't even know this happened last year...and I wonder how we find out which brands were effected??

    i also saw information several months ago about organic farmers do use pesticides but they are not the same pesticides that non organic farmers use....but they ARE pesticides.... gee wizzes....


  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 545
    edited August 2019

    yep. And there are many more loopholes. One of the reasons I used to be sceptical about "organic" label. I guess ideally one would know where every product comes from and what procedures they use on that particular farm. Or have friends/family supplying stuff. I concur with some comments on that article - organic beef is so chewy !!

  • olma61
    olma61 Member Posts: 1,016
    edited August 2019

    Santa - yes docs may know this, but they still recommend “heart healthy” eating with plenty of grains and even some recommended diabetic diets allow lots of processed and carby foods, but in limited amounts.

    Nicole - fraud in organic labeling is awful! We have to face that we can only try our best, we will never be able to be perfectly pure in any of our efforts. Toxic chemicals and emissions are so prevalent, we can only try to change the things that are within our control.


  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 2,310
    edited August 2019

    Anotherone: All of it is likely to contribute. Which is why the answer is to eat like a hunter-gatherer. I eat fruits, vegs, nuts, seeds, and fish. A bit of organic meat and dairy. Scant amounts of any stuff not on this list. I look at my food choices as medicine.

  • illimae
    illimae Member Posts: 5,571
    edited August 2019

    Hi all, I wanted to share a couple things. I use the DailyDozen checklist to ensure I get the recommended servings each day. I like because you don’t have to pay for anything except your own real, natural food from the grocery store and it is supported by my MDA team, MO and Integrative Medicine. A couple of specific things I asked about was soy for ER+, which I’m told is fine in food like eating edamame (much of the internet info is out dated or inconclusive) and sugar, which again is fine in fruit but limit added sugar. I use these as guidelines but I’m not terribly strict, I enjoy real food but I also like the occasional cupcake.

    I’m including pics of MD Anderson’s official guidance on the subject, if anyone is interested 🙂

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  • mountainmia
    mountainmia Member Posts: 857
    edited August 2019

    illimae, thanks for the photos. I'm working on increasing my fruits/veggies, but otherwise, this is how I already eat. Husband is on board with healthy eating, and no kids here to indulge, so that makes food prep for us much simpler than some people have.

  • DorothyB
    DorothyB Member Posts: 143
    edited August 2019

    Illimae - I also went to MD Anderson. I saw an integrated med doctor at the med center and she didn't give me the nifty stuff you got :( But thanks for posting it!! :) I'm working on a layout to help me be sure I get what I need each day.

    Did they say soymilk (organic) is also OK?

  • illimae
    illimae Member Posts: 5,571
    edited August 2019

    Dorothy, I didn’t ask about soy milk I think it’s ok but falls into the limited dairy category.

  • olma61
    olma61 Member Posts: 1,016
    edited August 2019

    Interesting post today in the Breaking News and Research thread. Regarding the insulin/glucose/cancer connection:

    https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/73/topics/860294?page=47#idx_1392

    (post by debbew)

    How diabetes can increase cancer risk

    "It's been known for a long time that people with diabetes have as much as a 2.5-fold increased risk for certain cancers," says John Termini, Ph.D., who is presenting the work at the [American Chemical Society (ACS) Fall 2019 National Meeting & Exposition]. These cancers include ovarian, breast, kidney and others...

    He wondered if the elevated blood glucose levels seen in diabetes could harm DNA, making the genome unstable, which could lead to cancer. So Termini and colleagues looked for a specific type of damage in the form of chemically modified DNA bases, known as adducts, in tissue culture and rodent models of diabetes. Indeed, they found a DNA adduct, called N2-(1-carboxyethyl)-2'-deoxyguanosine, or CEdG, that occurred more frequently in the diabetic models than in normal cells or mice. What's more, high glucose levels interfered with the cells' process for fixing it. "Exposure to high glucose levels leads to both DNA adducts and the suppression of their repair, which in combination could cause genome instability and cancer," Termini says...

    They wanted to determine the molecular reasons why the adducts weren't being fixed properly by the cells. They identified two proteins that appear to be involved: the transcription factor HIF1α and the signaling protein mTORC1, which both show less activity in diabetes...

    According to Termini, several drugs that stimulate HIF1α or mTORC1 already exist. The researchers plan to see if these drugs decrease cancer risk in diabetic animal models, and if so, they will test them in humans. Termini notes that metformin, a common diabetes medication that helps lower blood glucose levels, also stimulates DNA repair. "We're looking at testing metformin in combination with drugs that specifically stabilize HIF1α or enhance mTORC1 signaling in diabetic animal models," he says.

    Article: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-08-diabetes-cancer.html

  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,000
    edited August 2019

    Recently, I've tried to cut out snacking between meals. I was told about the concept that constant small meals a day means the body is always in the process of digesting food and creating insulin which apparently may not be the best thing. I was a chronic snacker, eating just a little for breakfast, then a mid-morning snack, even if it was healthy, like yogurt, then small lunch, another snack mid-day, and then lo and behold, I'd make dinner and wonder why I filled up so fast. And then a snack before bed because I hadn't eaten much for dinner; if I didn’t, I’d often wake up in the middle of the night hungry.

    So I am trying to change my eating pattern. I still allow myself a portion of junk food, but I have it right after a meal. Rather than eat a small lunch, then have some potato chips two hours later, I eat the chips with lunch. If I want dessert, I have it right after eating dinner rather than wait two hours and then eat it.

    It's not easy, since I got spoiled with all the food grazing. Hopefully I can stick with it tho.


  • B-A-P
    B-A-P Member Posts: 409
    edited August 2019

    my understanding is that healthy snacks between meals -like pairing a high fibre carb with a protein can actually keep blood sugars even keeled vs dipping too low or peaking high. It’s better to have stable sugars vs the highs and lows. But I feel like ya gotta do what’s best for you :)

  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 545
    edited August 2019

    divine , what basis do you have to state that snaking is bad per se? Why I ask - I am a snacker myself. Never had any GI issues until the last couple few years and guess what happened in the last few years - my soon to be ex partner moved in and he is sticking to the meal times type so I ended up eating like twice the amount of what I usually would . At present time I am sticking to eating within 8 hours window. In order to fit all the healthy blah like smoothies there and fruit which I love I have to snack as I do not like the idea of having fruit with main meal and can not have a smoothie with the main meal since it would be too much for my stomach and I do not like mixing all different types of food together- apples on top of potatoes mixed with nuts - not sure it digests well in a mix like that and I know I feel well when I eat fruit alone. In panic after diagnosis I cut the fruit out as a source of sugar but on reflection added it all back in apart from bananas. So what I am getting at - may be it is the sheer quantity of what you eat or the lateness of your eating or that you do not have 12 hours even free from digestion that is detrimental?

    I must say this nutrition stuff is doing my head in.

    P.S. I do not think it was my eating pattern that got me into stage 4 because a) I always was of a healthy weight, b) other than the last few years I never had GI issues, c)I had/have a few other heavy obvious reasons for it -

    1- I have smoked on and off from 17 to until a bit more than a year ago(45). Yes , I know , even after primary diagnosis. Human weakness and stupidity (mine of this occasion) is incredible.

    2- I had enough environmental offenses with pollution, eating non organic , cheap meat etc

    3- I have had a chronic infection which I did not know about till 2016 , likely for 20 years+ which is associated with cancers as a result of weakening immune system (treated in 2016)

    4 - I had a few stressful years both before primary and before this diagnosis.

    My poor wonderful body has amazing strength to go through all this and more but not related to cancer strictly ( mind , who knows - all those are insults to the body - 25+ scars and about a dozen of GAs) and look and function as good as it does. I hope the chest stuffed with tumours are not going to be the end for it .

  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,000
    edited August 2019

    I'm not here to advise anyone what's right or wrong, only mentioning my own approach. We know our own bodies best and are all smart enough to determine our own nutritional path.

    There are several best selling books by Dr. Jason Fung that discuss eliminating the snacking. I haven't read his books yet, but have visited a few websites to read what he has to say. As stated above, this is no endorsement. I mention his name, books and approach since I was asked where I was getting my info. His book, the Longevity Code, most interests me as I've already read The Blue Zones, which is about regions in the world where the population lives the longest.

    Fwiw, I do not have diabetes and it doesn't run in my family. Also, I would never, ever suggest that someone is responsible for getting bc because of what they ate. I am of the mind that bc/mbc is a crap-shoot, and it's not understood why some get it and some don't.



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  • olma61
    olma61 Member Posts: 1,016
    edited August 2019
    Yes! Jason Fung has a YouTube channel also. Interesting stuff.
  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 545
    edited August 2019

    thank you divine. I am afraid I do not feel smart enough with the nutrition path . I will look into these books/the guy on the internet.

  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 2,310
    edited August 2019

    Intermittent fasting is good for blood sugar and I think it is pretty easy. You eat only during a 10-11 hour window of time, or less, out of 24 hours. I eat 11 am to 9 pm and not outside that timespan. (Am coffee or tea, black, is ok.) It's very good to give you body a generous no-digestion window.

  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 545
    edited August 2019

    agreed , I found even longer window easy - eating from 1 PM to 9. Just skip breakfast what I often used to do anyway. Worrying though that I "dried out" after a few weeks; it looks as if I was losing muscle mass even . May be not , may be those are remnants of fat that I lost but whatever it is it does not look good :(. May be it is not fasting that is to blame as I tried eliminating carbohydrates, was stressed for a couple of weeks at first and may be it is cachexia as I have a large tumour mass - I do not know.

  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 2,310
    edited August 2019

    I was off carbs more strictly during chemo.... I have loosened up now, by adding back nutrient dense carbs and more fruits (stone fruits, kiwi, apples). I look at every meal like it's a dose of medicine... I try to pick from the best cancer-fighting whole foods (cabbages, alliums, mushrooms, greens, berries, nuts/seeds, & a rainbow of colors) as the bulk of my diet. Plus fish, eggs, and small amounts of organic meats & dairy. Basically every meal is "what 3-5 vegetables and fruits shall I eat?"

  • LoveFromPhilly
    LoveFromPhilly Member Posts: 1,019
    edited August 2019

    I am still in the boat of not worrying about what I eat too much.

    I do believe that I was struck by orthorexia for several years and for me, it is healthier for my body mind and soul to not count the numbers of veggies and fruits I’ve eaten in a day, and not obsess over if I’ve had too many carbs one day and then try to make it for it the next.

    I try to maintain balance but I need to quite often talk myself off the “nutrition ledge” of worrying and obsessing.

    For me, it is less healthy to worry and stress about foods.

    However, I can fully understand that for folks starting out on their nutrition journey, there could b healthy shifts and changes that couldn’t hurt to be implemented.

    Anotherone, how much weight have you lost? From my understanding cachexia was a near-death starvation of the body that occurs with severe illness. It looks like a severe anorexia. Are you at this level?

  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,000
    edited August 2019

    Santabarb, it's great that you have that kind of mindset to eat the right food for the best nutrition.

    Philly, I also don't count the carbs or fruits I eat. I try to enjoy the food rather than regiment it.

    I'm on Ibrance which must be taken with food, so I eat breakfast just before 8 am. This is the time I know I'll consistently take the medicine and not forget about it. I was never a big breakfast eater, but taking the Ibrance is most important.

    At this point, having a time window in which to eat during the day, say 8 to 5 or whatever, wouldn't work for me. But the not snacking between meals seems more doable. One reason is I tend to snack to chase away anxiety. Some Cheeze-Its, or a couple snack size Milky Ways or a donut could divert my anxious thoughts instead to the pleasures of a tasty treat. Now I've become more mindful when I seek to reach for food to soothe the mind. I honestly do feel less bloated, and as tho my stomach isn't always churning.


  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 2,310
    edited August 2019

    Comforting, sweet and "carb like" but still good-for-you treats I have discovered:

    -paleo cocoanut granola (all nuts and seeds, and DANG tasty) - at Whole Foods, in the bins...

    -I make homemade almond flour/ coconut flour adaptations of muffins... Can sweeten with crushed pineapple/ unsweetened coconut, or pureed pumpkin/ pumpkin pie spices, or add grated carrot, raisins etc/ a la carrot cake. A good and satisfying treat. Unsweetened coconut is drier/ harder than the sweetened kind so I soak it in milk, then add it. You can throw in chopped nuts or seeds too.

    -berries or stone fruits, with a dollop of cream or greek yogurt and a sprinkle of the granola

    -flan or custard made with pureed pumpkin/ pumpkin pie spices and using a lower amount of sugar or other sweetener

    Full disclosure: It was my birthday last week and I went for the molten flourless chocolate cake w/ whipped cream, and ice cream... but I shared w the table.... It was incredibly sweet to my 'adjusted' taste buds. I am increasingly satisfied with a ripe peach or cherries as a "sweet"

  • mountainmia
    mountainmia Member Posts: 857
    edited August 2019

    I think that part can be surprising to people, that your taste buds (or preferences) adjust to eating more or less of something. When I cut back my salt intake a few years ago, it wasn't long before I started noticing how over-salted a lot of foods are. I still REALLY like salt and salty foods, but what that means to me is different than it used to be. Restaurant meals can be unpleasant, and most processed, packaged foods are never used because they are too salty. A few potato chips are very satisfying; a snack bag full is nasty. Sugar preferences are the same way.

  • anotherone
    anotherone Member Posts: 545
    edited August 2019

    Santa, I get where you coming from- it is indeed best described to me as looking at food as a medicine first. It does not mean that looking at it as pleasure or convenience or social event disappear altogether - those aspects are still present and sometimes may even override the medicine one but the latter is always considered.

    I do not think Santa is talking about counting calories and my issue is not too much calories for sure either.

    Divine , having to have breakfast indeed changes the things - one has to work with what one has.

    LoveFil, it is not worrying or obsessing (well my weight loss is kind of worrying for me but not nutrition thinking per se), it is exciting if anything. When I say I was stressed I refer to metastasis diagnosis which was the main reason for stress, separation which did not help and issues with insurance cover; not food. I have lost just about 4- 5 kg but on my small frame and no excess weight before it does not look good. I am not yet at the stage of looking sick to someone who has not met me before but I look definitely worse. My bum has flattened despite continuing with gym weight training, my clavicles are sticking out. I feel well so it does not fit the image of barely able to move that cachexic person has in my head but I do not know it all. I googled definition - it looks like it is a combination of any 3 of the following : unintentional drop of more than 5% of body mass(tick), decrease in muscle strength and volume(tick, tick), anorexia, specific metabolic changes that arise as a result of some severe body system failure, BMI and fatigue(tick -kind of, on occasions).

    As some of these are relative - fatigue for example and decrease in strength can be not clear either ;besides it can happen as a result of compromised breezing rather than cachexia - it is not easy to tell. I hope not. My blood results were normal but they were not as detailed in biochemistry to detect cachexia signs aside from advanced - albumine, haemoglobin decrease and C reactive proteins increase.

  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 2,310
    edited August 2019

    I do not count calories. I would hate to do that! I think "nutrient dense cancer-fighting foods" and the rest takes care of itself. I do eat oils and fats; something like sauteed eggplant in a ton of garlic and olive oil w basil is great anti cancer dish but still rich and decadent. I do eat dairy too, and eggs and fish and meat but the total amount low, smaller portions or not as frequently. <20% of my calories from those foods. (But if trying to gain weight that could rise.)

    Roast your vegetables in the oven, if you have never tried this. Drizzle w olive oil and roast brussel sprouts, carrot, broccoli or whatever-- it carmelizes them and is incredibly delicious. The trick is to think of the things you will *love* to eat from the anti cancer list and enjoy them!

    Once you have new taste buds and new habits, then you can add back 5 chips, or any other mini treat, and as Mia points out you will not be tempted to wolf the whole bag.