Come join others currently navigating treatment in our weekly Zoom Meetup! Register here: Tuesdays, 1pm ET.
Fill Out Your Profile to share more about you. Learn more...

The Metabolic Approach in Conjunction with Standard of Care

Options
135

Comments

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 229
    edited August 2021
    Options

    Thank you for that study, moth! I'm sorry about the insane fatigue. I get cranky too when I have to fast for labs. Anecdotally speaking, I have friends who swear by fasting the day before and 12 hours after their chemo that it reduces their side effects, but I am amazed they can go that long without eating. I wonder if it's a water fast or more? I have been meaning to thank you, moth. You always take the time to reach out to the new ladies here who are newly diagnosed and terrified as we were at that moment. You have such a kind heart. I"m glad you have dogs to walk. We have always had german shepherds but not right now. I really miss having dogs.

    I am going to look into the sauna. I'm at risk for lymphedema (11 nodes and now radiation damage). I wonder if it would be safe for me to heat up my arm. We're in California, so I guess I could drive out to Palm Springs and bake in the shade for an hour or two :)

    Wrenn, I love your healthy attitude. Have you ever tried EDTA chelation to see if it will improve the neuropathy? Increases microcirculation and comes with health benefits, including for heart disease, diabetes, stroke/dementia prevention. (I'm laughing because yes, this is anecdotal from my IMD. My new friend moth, I'll find you a study over the weekend. You and Waves might already have seen some good ones. I really enjoy researching :)

    Speaking of, I better run. Heading to my weekly chelation to detox from another week of radiation damage to my poor tissues.

    Blessings,

    Esther



  • norcals
    norcals Member Posts: 209
    edited August 2021
    Options

    Here’s an article I read before starting my AC chemo in 2019.

    https://osher.ucsf.edu/patient-care/integrative-medicine-resources/cancer-and-nutrition/faq/cancer-and-fasting-calorie-restriction

    This article and others (I couldn’t find the study done in Europe - it may be the one Moth referred to in above post), motivated me to fast before and after my infusions. I fasted 48 hours before infusion and 24 hours after. It greatly helped with preventing nausea and vomiting. I think it was much easier to fast during AC because the drugs affected my tastebuds so that everything tasted like chemicals. I fasted before taxol, but had an olive with the premed because I was told to have food with it.

    I have continued with the 24 hour fast once a week for over 2 years now. I finish dinner early and break my fast the next day with a late lunch

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 229
    edited August 2021
    Options

    Santabarbarian,

    You mentioned doing HBOT throughout radiation. May I ask, how did your skin hold up? Did it help reduce other side effects like fatigue? I am thinking of asking my IMD this week if she would advise it for me. I am a bit scared of what's to come because I feel some burning in my armpit after three weeks in, and still have four more weeks to go. I do run around with a wedge holding my arm out like the little teapot.

    I just read about HBOT in Dr. Stengler and Dr. Anderson's book, Cancer Outside the Box (2018). It reads, "A number of scientific reviews have outlined the ways in which HBOT is not only beneficial in cancer therapy but also in helping to control side effects of standard therapies." They don't mention during which specific treatments and I haven't read the studies footnoted yet because I'm trying to assemble a file cabinet so I can feel like I accomplished something today.

    Have a good Sunday,

    Esther

  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited August 2021
    Options

    in our family we love fitness challenges, so this year we joined a challenge called Run the Year. The idea is to accumulate 2021 miles during the year. We are not runners but walking and cycling are also acceptable ways to accumulate the miles. Over the weekend our team achieved the 2021 mile goal. We knew we were close so we opted to go for a nice hike at a local metro park. We ended up doing a little over 3 miles on trails rated as moderate to difficult. It was very soul soothing to be out in nature being active. Now that our team has accumulated the 2021 miles, we will both continue to individually log miles to see how far we can go and how close we can get to 2021. I have 988 miles to go!

    On to the next challenge!image

  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 2,310
    edited August 2021
    Options

    My skin did not hold up. (It might have been worse without it?) I looked napalmed. Not painful, but awful looking. But it did heal incredibly quickly with 3 sessions of HBOT -- it was all better in about a week. I had 6 weeks of rads, and my skin held up till last ~10 days of it.

    There's a product called domeboro... an astringent recommended by my RO.... that was relieving to my sore skin.

    I had proton rads so that might be different.

    HBOT is wonderful for fatigue. My main chemo SE was being very anemic. Every time you leave HBOT you feel normal-- oxygenated-- and that is a great boost. I would also fall asleep during the treatment and wake refreshed. Last my HBOT therapist was a HEALER. You know the medical people who are unfailingly joyful, kind, personal. It always made me feel better just to see her.

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 229
    edited August 2021
    Options

    Thanks so much, Santabarbarian,

    That's really helpful. I am determined to get HBOT as soon as my IMD approves it for me. I'm glad you had such a good therapist. She sounds a lot like my IMD, whom I adore.

    Waves, congrats on that Fitness Challenge. What a gorgeous spot! 988 miles to go, wow!! You are inspiring me. We have an old, historic, antiquey town square nearby, and I decided to walk near it today. These homes were built in the late 1800s or early 1900s and the massive trees shading these old homes made the most wonderful sounds as the breeze blew through the trees. It was so quiet and peaceful. I needed that today!

    Blessings,

    Esther

  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited August 2021
    Options

    Tuesday Thought…

    I don’t know who originated this quote but it is something I embrace:

    You’ll never change your life until you change something you do daily. The secret of your success is found in your daily routine.


    image

  • debal
    debal Member Posts: 600
    edited August 2021
    Options

    waves I agree 100%. Thank you for the reminder

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 229
    edited August 2021
    Options

    Thanks Waves, this is great! I'm going to save the link.

    Loved the plumeria, by the way. That's my favorite flower.

    Love,

    Esther

  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited August 2021
    Options
  • norcals
    norcals Member Posts: 209
    edited August 2021
    Options

    That is the first time I’ve heard about exercise oncology. I was advised by two oncologists, several oncology nurses, and TNBC suvivors to walk everyday during my chemo treatment. They thought it would help with my immune system. So, I walked almost everyday (except the day after infusions) for at least an hour. My partner and I woke up early and walked at a local school track (we wanted to be able to park a car near by in case something happened). I don’t know if it helped with my immune system since ANC was low throughout chemo, but it really helped me psychologically to just get outside. I was a runner before dx, but after dx I appreciate the walks and hikes much more. Again, I don’t know if it’s more psychological than physical, but I just feel better after a morningwalk.

  • heidihill
    heidihill Member Posts: 1,856
    edited August 2021
    Options

    Waves, that quote certainly rings true for me! I decided after my first chemo infusion (TAC) almost 14 years ago to exercise every day. I am still at it. Have only missed when I was in bed with some bug or taking a very long plane trip.

    I had Dr. Schmitz on my sights some time after I had 19 nodes removed in 2008 and started a progressive weight training program based on a European study. It was good to have her confirmation that I was on the right track in preventing lymphedema.

    I also started intermittent fasting way back when to try to starve cancer cells. I had an eating window of 7 to 8 hours for a year and did a low carb Mediterranean diet with the aim of reducing blood sugar levels. My onc also prescribed Metformin (although I am not a diabetic) which I took for just a month (it affected my exercise capacity). But he did say I should take it say around Christmas time when the temptation to eat too many cookies was overwhelming.

    These days I'm just trying to watch my weight and have expanded my eating window to 12 hours. I think I will try to train to run 10K because it's becoming more of a struggle to maintain that weight. I do believe maintaining a healthy weight, a decent fitness level and muscle mass helps keep cancer metabolically at bay, as well as a host of other diseases of aging.

  • olma61
    olma61 Member Posts: 1,027
    edited August 2021
    Options

    Great thread, don’t know how I missed it. I will have more to say when I have a little more time, but let me just say, wrenn, the change in your A1C numbers is amazing! So good to see what’s possible with some lifestyle changes.

    I had started a little thread of my own to obsess over my rising glucose numbers. I STILL don’t have my A1C result from the home test I did and the lab at my cancer center could not do a test for me today. My A1C was 4.5 in 2018 when I last tested, no idea what it might be now but I doubt it’s going to be less than 5 again, I’ll be ecstatic if it’s still under 6. I have slacked on exercise and fasting compared to 2018 and let’s face it I am 3 yrs older. But I do have room to improve

    Anyway, congrats to all of you on your efforts! I’ll be back!

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 229
    edited August 2021
    Options

    Thanks! I'm just getting to the "Power of Sauna" chapter in the Metabolic Approach to Cancer book by stage IV Ovarian Cancer survivor, Dr. Nasha Winters.

    My doctor uses an infrared sauna and highly recommends them. A fellow patient at my twice weekly 50gram IV Vitamin C appointments says she and her husband just bought an Infrared Sauna by Relax. Her husband is going through radiation for cancer just like me and she says they really love their sauna. They actually put it in their kitchen.

    Heidihill, I loved your post. You're amazing. What you have done is what the most experienced integrative oncologists note among most successful for "keeping cancer metabolically at bay." Right on! I need to bump up my exercise and focus more on building muscle mass. I hadn't even thought of that aspect with regard to avoiding lymphedema.

    Olma, I hope by now you got your A1C numbers back from your recent lab test. My IMD runs those numbers every few months. My MO never did.

    Blessings,
    Esther

  • AnnE16
    AnnE16 Member Posts: 38
    edited August 2021
    Options

    Hi Waves,

    Thanks for starting this thread! I am interested in trying HBOT at some point.I just got done with radiation again. Was your oncologist thinking HBOT would make the cancer spread more?

  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited August 2021
    Options

    AnnE16,

    Welcome to the thread! At the time I was discussing HBOT with my medical oncologist my cancer was very active and spreading, so yes, he was concerned about the forced oxygen giving the cancer additional fuel. I understand the theory behind using HBOT to increase the oxygen environment because cancer prefers an anaerobic environment.

    I have recently been reading a great book called The Oxygen Advantage by Patrick McKeown. He discusses breathing patterns and how to make them more efficient. His observation is that most of us have spent our lives over breathing, which interrupts the balance between oxygen and carbon dioxide. I have started employing some of his simple tips and am finding some increase in endurance and better sleep.

    Again, we are glad to have you join the conversation!

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 229
    edited August 2021
    Options

    Hi Waves,

    On breathing, that sounds like another intriguing read. I have heard it makes a difference for us with cancer. I was told that under stress we take shallow upper chest breaths when we should really be taking deep diaphragmatic, belly-inflating breaths to oxygenate our cells since the cancerous cells prefer anaerobic metabolism over oxygen. Is that something he mentions? I've started diaphragmatic breathing during radiation since I'm motivated to have my heart out of the way of those DNA-damaging blasts but also noticed that type of breathing has a calming effect. I also read that deep breathing is helpful to the lymphatic system in the prevention of lymphedema. My PT prescribed it as one of my anti-lymphedema "exercises."

    I'm so happy that you are seeing an increase in your endurance and also in your quality of sleep. That's awesome!

    Hi AnnE, glad you've found our thread. I am only halfway through radiation but intend to start HBOT therapy ASAP. My doctor doesn't offer it but 100% approves.

    Santabarbarian has lots of experience with HBOT (I think she did HBOT prior, during and after rads) and hopefully will weigh in as well.

    Have a great day today. I'm scrambling to take my mom in for her labs before heading to radiation.

    Love,

    Esther


  • heidihill
    heidihill Member Posts: 1,856
    edited September 2021
    Options

    Breast Cancer Topic: How shifts in temperature prime immune response

    I posted this 10 years ago! I thought then I had to try to turn on those immune cells. As I posted elsewhere yesterday (Divine's infrared sauna discussion thread) I did take steps to heat myself up involving exercise. It's not so much a metabolic approach but an immune-response approach which has metabolic benefits. Lol. Whether it's heat or cold, when your body has to stabilize temperature you burn a lot more energy.

  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited September 2021
    Options

    Heidihill,

    Thanks for sharing! Having a multi-pronged approach is a good plan for managing cancer

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 229
    edited September 2021
    Options

    That's wonderful, Heidihill. Impressive too, because it was harder to find solid information back then. I didn't see the infrared sauna thread. I'll have to check it out.

    Love,

    Esther

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 229
    edited September 2021
    Options

    Good article, Waves,

    I like that it mentioned, what do you do if you have already lost too much weight? At this point, I would love to gain a few pounds so I can do a one to three day water/fluids fast without sliding further down the scale. I know it would help my immune system immeasurably.

    Blessings,

    Esther

  • heidihill
    heidihill Member Posts: 1,856
    edited September 2021
    Options

    Yes, keep moving until your last breath or, I would add, until you can't anymore. If I can still move then my last breath is still a ways off. I saw the converse scenario though with my brother. I knew he would soon be gone when surgical interventions for pancreatic cancer immobilized him.

    Esther, we need to focus post-chemo, post-radiation or post-surgery on getting enough protein to help our body heal. That was the advice of a naturopath at a breast cancer center. Also, chemo stopped my weight loss. Due to mouth issues I had a lot of soft foods then like cottage cheese, yoghurt and ice cream. Probably enough protein there. If you are still losing weight, best to get advice from an oncology nutritionist.

  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited September 2021
    Options

    I agree with Heidihill about making sure to get adequate protein and working with someone who truly understands the nutritional needs of cancer patients…especially someone with knowledge of a metabolic approach. Some nutritionists and dietitians still follow an older model of nutrition. I am not sure what they are calling it these days - MyPlate? These older models are very carb heavy and generally limit protein to a small deck of card-size. This is why it’s important to find someone who understands how to develop well-formulated nutritional plans

  • moth
    moth Member Posts: 3,293
    edited September 2021
    Options

    I'll just chime in and say it is not necessary to eat animal protein. This gets lost so I like to bring it up once in a while - veganism is something I'm passionate about. I'm personally also convinced that there are dangers associated with animal protein so I see eating plant based as a benefit for mutliple reasons.

    I absolutely agree that protein requirements for cancer patients are critical. The cachexia & sarcopenia society documents I've seen seem to recommending 1.2-1.5 g of daily protein intake/kg body weight. I use My Fitness Pal to track my protein. Many of the things we think of as 'carbs' are often quite high in protein. I don't do it daily but just intermittently to make sure that my intake is in line with my goals. .