Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Me to!!! Thanks for posting.
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I love this thread, so good to not feel alone ( living in a bible belt with a religious family). I am not American but I cant seem to understand what Trump has to do with god and Christianity, so strange. Unfortunately here is Ontario we have a conservative government now and a federal election coming in the fall and may end up with a strict Catholic conservative leader. I so hope not, will set us back and makes us more ( please excuse me) American.
BTW i changed my name as was suggested
Nan
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Springflower - The evangelicals and others in this country want to appear religious by outlawing abortions as per orders from god, while simultaneously supporting policies that dehumanize large swathes of living human beings. While it is true that atheists have a range of socio/political positions, they do not defer to a mythical god to bolster their position.
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WRITING AN ARTICLE
I'm interested in the different ways we handle breast cancer diagnosis, treatment, the fear of recurrence without having religion as a prop, and I'd like to write about the methods we use to attain resilience without belief in a god. If anyone here would like to share their thoughts and experiences on this topic, that would be great. All contributors would be anonymous.
Thanks in advance.
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I don't mind religion unless it's used to discriminate, legislate, placate or make people feel bad about themselves. I am more of a nature worshipper and like science as an explanation of why we (plants, animals, etc.) are here versus a grand creator. However, I know that the world is a scary place and people need crutches and fairytales to get through their lives. Everyone (including my co-workers) prayed for my mother in law and yet she is still dying of lung cancer metastasized to the brain. Any day now. I work for a religious non profit organization which is a decently diverse and tolerant group but we (they) still pray at meetings. I make grocery lists
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On the rare occasion I find myself in church (wedding, funeral, travel with my Catholic hubby, attending son's Episcopal Church for the music and nice community), I recite Wordsworth's "My Heart Leaps Up" during their lord's prayer. I look at the stained glass or daydream during the other repetitive brainwashing.
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Another atheist here. I’d be super happy to find out reincarnation is a thing tho . I like being alive , I’d like to do it a few more times.
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2019whatayear-Too cute
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In the 1960's I was working for Pan Am in Houston, writing tickets and figuring out complicated fares. There was a special low one-way fare for missionaries. My fellow ticketer would send Madelyn Murray O'Hare a contribution every time he wrote a missionary fare ticket. After bitching about all the damage missionaries do to people who were happy with their own beliefs.
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Traveltext My thoughts/re: your question---what's it like facing cancer without religion as a support? (Edited for grammar and clarity a few hours later)
I haven't ever thought that suddenly believing in unprovable, illogical fairy tales would be particularly helpful. I am deeply adherent to morality, values and ethics, but I haven't ever (since my early 20's) felt the need to shop at the religion mall to acquire those. In so many cases, the blind faith that's required for religion doesn't encourage, nor stand up to critical examination, logic, or questioning; that stops my intellectual, inquiring mind cold.
At age 61, I've already lived through a lot of difficult challenges and losses, and I have climbed a lot of personal mountains. I don't feel the need for religion as a prop or support through this horrible cancer journey, any more than through other difficulties I've faced in my life.
My 2018 was enormously difficult, beginning with a complicated foot-rebuilding surgery, which allowed no weight-bearing for 4 months. Immediately after that, along came the (new, unrelated, just my bad luck to have a second time) 2018 breast cancer diagnosis. Alas. To get through my very difficult year, I certainly 'dug deep,' and 'found my inner strength,' and that is what people report finding when they pray, perhaps? My logic and knowledge of the human brain assures me that we all have a lot of inner strength, and that we can manage more than we realize.
I am not able to believe that one's inner wisdom is suddenly bestowed via a lightning bolt and an answered prayer. I am not able to believe that a Divine Being is scurrying around worrying about my cancer and war-torn regions' famines and injustices of all types, and that such a Divine Being is prioritizing some evils as being worthy of being stopped while he/she allows other horrors to continue.
I am grateful for a baseline of good mental health. I'm appreciative of my lifetime of experiences, education and training (37 years teaching high school) that have built my inner "toolbox" to be able to cope with difficult circumstances. I'm grateful to be alive in this century, grateful for ever-better cancer treatments, for the NCCN guidelines, for oncological research, for compassionate and skilled medical professionals, for a wonderful husband, and for supportive and loving family and friends. Instead of blindly putting faith in a fairy tale or magic wands, I'm grateful to 'believe' in science and evidence-based medicine.
For me, life is a journey of learning, and a quest for wisdom, experiences, knowledge, relationships, etc.---a.k.a. Self-Actualization. This inner quest is not reliant on legend and myth.
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beautifully written HikingLady. Love and can relate to what you wrote, thank you 🤗
I have never had religion. I have dappled and studied different aspects of Buddhism and Daoism and a little bit of Confucius philosophy/way of life. I am Jewish by culture and DNA but never had a bat mitzvah. I did go to Israel to study for 2 months when I was 16. That was when I truly woke up to the propaganda of the Jewish Israelis and how it repelled me further from religion. The war ravaged cities and people, so many deaths - due to tribal wars, deemed religious as well. Nope, not my jam!
I did not find god when I received my stage 4 MBC de novo diagnosis two years ago. Rather I found that the only things that could truly relieve my anxiety are love, medication, exercise and meditation. So I guess these are my gods and my religions now.
I am not 100% sold on science as I believe there are too many loopholes in research that cannot be spoken for, such as bow researcher bias can influence the outcomes. The mere presence of the “observer" changes the way electrons interact.
I believe in the power of love and in the healing power of someone witnessing our pain. I believe healing can happen when we have a witness to see our suffering. That's why groups like AA and NA work, because we have witnesses that listen to and empathize with our stories.
Love is my religion ❤️❤️
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Thanks for the thoughtful explanation of how you handle this disease HikingLady, and other fraught situations, as an atheist. You’ve shown as much commitment to atheism as many people do to religion. And I like it that you’ve found you don’t need to outsource your value systems, rather you take responsibility for your actions and decisions. This surely makes you one strong person.
Hoping to hear from others here. If you scroll up you’ll see my question. TIA.
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Hi, Traveltext. My breast cancer experience has been relatively lightweight so far, but it was just part of a crappy 2018. Chronologically:
My mother died
I had to get all my upper teeth pulled and adapt to dentures
I got my breast cancer diagnosis
I had a pre-op CT scan that showed an aortic aneurysm AND a bonus 7cm kidney cancer
Lumpectomy
Re-excision
Robotic radical nephrectomy
Finally, 33 radiation sessions
This year has been much better, one kidney recurrence scare with a PET scan and biopsy, and I'll finally are a cardiothoracic surgeon in June if my chest doesn't pop first.
Not once did I blame a deity when any of these series of unfortunate events transpired, nor did I thank one when they were over. I put my trust in science and reality. I balanced all the bad things with time in nature, from taking short recovery walks in a woodsy park to longer day and multi-day trips to other parks. I guess I might have some pantheistic leanings, but scientific pantheism rather than the smooch-a-tree variety. I just shake their hands. 😏 I'll admit to a smidge of iffyness on some form of post-life consciousness, just due to a few odd, personal incidents, combined with wishful thinking, I guess. I like Sir Terry Pratchett's idea that no one really is dead until their name is no longer spoken. It's up to us to build strong memories with and for our loved ones.
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Traveltext, I grew up in a non churchgoing house, although my parents are believers. The lack of exposure, natural independence and an interest in biology and geology made buying into the biblical fairytale impossible. Cancer happens, cells go bad and while it was shocking to be diagnosed stage IV at 41, I still felt good. I mostly trust my medical care and do what I can to help (like staying active, for body and mind) but I have little fear and no reason to call on something to save me. I cope by being an optimist, finding beauty in nature, joy in experiences, an incredible and supportive husband and a little luck now and then.
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LoveFromPhilly, with your Jewish background, and dabbling in Buddhism and Daoism with a little bit of Confucius philosophy, you can surely say that you've been exposed to differing options. And using love, medication, exercise and meditation (what a great combination) to get you through the undeniable trauma of a Stage IV novo diagnosis is truely inspirational. I can empathise with you having witnesses that listen to and empathize with your story, since I tend to put my diseases out there for public consumption! Sort of spreads the load!
AliceB and illimae, certainly you two are on the same page, and I can relate to that page. Science and nature are both worth believing in if we are to negotiate all the crappy aspects of this disease. illimae, your support system must also make a big difference, and being a glass half full person is a bonus. As another Stage IV person, you are taking as much control as possible of your circumstance.
I can see a pattern emerging, but welcome more comments. Thanks.
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2019whatayear, I wouldn't mind being reincarnated as long as I remember the mistakes I made this time around so I don't repeat them!
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For those of us who feel uncomfortable when someone says they'll pray for us:
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👍👍👍
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There's a fast growing religion in Iceland. It teaches being yourself and caring for the earth. They get together and tell old Norse stores multiple times a year. The guy who came up with it cleverly had it declared a religion which means that the government taxes that support religion support it as well. Story on BBC.com.
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Definitely sharing that one.0 -
Ananda8, I LOVE that!
Wren44, that sounds like a much nicer form of Asatru, which tends to be a weird mix of Klingon and Nazi in its worst versions.
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ananda-Very funny. I was asked to lead a prayer at a former clients memorial service next Friday. I told them it was against my belief system. My co-workers readily accepted and followed up with a request for me to say a few words. I am going to quote a poem that's been around for many years. I believe the name of the poem is "She believed she could, so she did" I was at the hospital with her when she died. Several staff from her group home came to the hospital because they wanted to pray over her body. I gave each of them a hug and left the room because just as I have a right not to pray I wanted to give them privacy to practice their beliefs. Upon my clients passing that evening, one of the ladies approached me because she wanted to let me know how disrespectful it was for me not to pray with them. I simply smiled and informed her my conscience is clear and walked away.
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jo6359 Your description of this recent experience reminds me of some occasionally awkward times that arise in my life, where it gets assumed that everyone shares the same belief system. I use the word "privacy" a lot for those occasions. As in, "I am private about religion/private about my beliefs, etc." Same with when I'm accosted by evangelicals; I just "don't discuss my beliefs." Ha ha, I actually DO discuss them in safe places! But, I choose where to have such conversations.
ananda8 I love Non Delusional as a label for my chosen sect, thanks!
And, here's a meme that the Unitarians are passing around:
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Hiking Lady - I think the hat should either be a colander (to denote the Flying Spaghetti Monster) or one made of tin foil to ward off delusional thinking.
Jo - it's bad here too in the Barbecue Bible Belt. I am also a vegan and (the worst sin) child-free by choice. I'm like a triple threat to them
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Along with funny hats, the clerics all wear dresses. Religion is so strange.
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Oh I miss my Unitarian church. Since moving to northern Ontario 8 years ago I've lived too far from a Unitarian church to attend - the nearest one is 6 hours away. I have, however, kept my bumper sticker, which reads: "Unitarian Universalist - the Uncommon Denomination." Sums it up pretty well.
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I was wondering why there are so few posts on this thread. I think it's because discussing our lack of belief can result in explaining our rejection of religion. Since this page can be seen by religious people, perhaps we are reluctant to give offense. What do others think? Are we shy, boring, or overly careful?
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Probably all of the above.
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