Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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I feel perfectly comfortable having discussions on this thread about what comes up in our lives, and how we all deal with it. I really appreciate having a safe place for us to share how we feel. There's a bit of a silent but palpable oppression toward anyone in a minority. Of course, being an atheist puts me in a minority in this country.
"The Pew Religious Landscape survey reported that as of 2014, 22.8% of the U.S.population is religiously
unaffiliated, atheists made up 3.1% and agnostics made up 4% of the U.S. population. The 2014 General Social
Survey reported that 21% of Americans had no religion with 3% being atheist and 5% being agnostic."
Yesterday, a Sunday, DH and I were in a part of Oregon which is chock full of churches. He said, casually, "Well, we'll have the hiking trail to ourselves until church is out, and then it will get crowded." And, he was right!
In Oregon, the urban areas are less religious and more liberal, and the rural areas (which comprise very slightly less than 1/2 the population) are more conservative, and more (mostly Christian) religious. It's interesting to compare USA with other western countries:
"A relatively recent Gallup poll (2012) suggests that 63% of French people don't consider themselves religious,
just under half of whom (29% of the whole population) are happy to describe themselves as convinced atheists.
So, at most 63% don't believe in a god, and 29% describe themselves as atheist. --Feb 5, 2017"
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Speaking for myself only, I don’t post here often because I have a couple other home threads where I have support and share updates. The original post is really just asking if we’re out there and since I’ve already shared my feelings on the controlling and corrupt nature of organized religion, the only thing to comment on are the occasional questions or topics and memes posted here.
Personally, it’s not a matter of being cautious or shy, I’m just busy living and most of my time spent on the boards are usually in the stage IV forum.
I do have a few funny but highly offensive religious themed memes, maybe I’ll post one and see if it’s going too far or not.
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I agree with hiking lady. I am completely comfortable sharing almost anything on this thread. Maybe one of the differences; being an atheist, we're not trying to convert others to our lack of belief in a god. For the most part I rarely ever think about my atheism. One of the things I did share on this thread was how annoyed I would become when Hospital staff would lecture me on my lack of religion. And the other thing which would tick me off would be when family members would try to force me into joining their prayer circle. For the most part people respect my life and believe just as I respect their right to believe. I do enjoy the philosophical debate regarding Buddhism, atheism, agnostic and humanism, etc. I love to hear stories from people on why they became an atheist. No religious background as a child? Too much religion as a child? Rejected from a scientific perspective? Those are the things I find fascinating because I enjoy hearing other people's points of view. I was a precocious six-year-old child in church who constantly raised her hand during the sermon to question what the preacher had just stated. It reached the point I was told by the preacher not to sit with others for the Sunday School service and remain in the baby sitting room in the back of the church. I will give my parents credit. They informed me there wasn't anything wrong with questioning Authority. They supported questioning things you did not understand but to do it respectfully. So even at a young age I was encouraged to form my own beliefs. That was the start of my journey. And if you care to share yours?
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I think problems discussing a nonexistent contributes to low posting. I don't believe and I don't feel it's particularly interesting.
On another note: Have you heard of Forest Bathing? Someone close to here guides small groups to experience it. Basically you stroll through a forest, stopping to listen and look around. I would feel very refreshed after doing that. They mentioned where the forest was so I may go look for it. I would enjoy stopping to sketch a bit.
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wren- I have never heard of forest bathing. It sounds delightful. This evening when I get home from work I'm going to Google it.
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Or, in my case, just not that obsessed with my own atheism.... I was raised by atheists and it feels normal to me to be one, and I live in a liberal area and am not called upon to defend or explain my beliefs. I clicked on this to begin with because I was interested in how we are all battling a potentially lethal disease without God heaven etc to buffer that reality, and to have some others who understand that.
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As an atheist I'm fascinated by how readily theists (mostly Christians in my community) ask their god to damn people when they are angry- as in god d@#$ you- Most curious.
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Oh, this is beautiful. Forest Bathing! It's my favorite kind of bath. I actually do this all the time. I'm absolutely tuned into being in forests, and I really grew up in one, as a matter of fact. Being in nature is probably among my most deeply imprinted early needs. E.O. Wilson writes about Biophilia, and his autobiographical book, Naturalist, addresses humans' deeply seated, evolutionarily-acquired need for nature.
I've been lucky enough to have had two gorgeous hikes in the past three days. First photo below is near Mt. Hood, with Vanilla Leaf in bloom under the Douglas Fir trees. The other three are in Silver Falls State Park --a mostly climax conifer forest along a canyon, with 10 waterfalls and lots of hiking trails. Here are a few images, for you to have a digital forest bath:
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Interesting... I agree that most of us seem comfortable with our 'non-belief'. So apparently we don't need to scream & rant & argue about what others are or are not doing. Hmmmm - now how many wars started around religious beliefs?
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My parents weren’t really that pro religion when I was growing up. We attended church irregularly and didn’t pray or do anything religious in the home. I kind of drifted away during high school and slept in on Sunday mornings. I finally read the bible and noted the inconsistencies. So I pretty much became anti-bible as opposed to atheist at first. Then saw what people do to others in the name of their religion and got disgusted with the whole thing.
I love being outside in nature. Too bad more people don’t embrace the outdoors and the natural world as a religion.
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I didn't really become a non-theist until I left home for college and then as a Navy Officer. My grandfather was a minister, so my mother was religious. My father not so much although he supported my Mother. I wasn't rebelling, just saw a different side of life. Living in another culture for 4 years and seeing how arbitrary the many ways we explain things and do things differently made me more global in my thinking. I make no effort to have others share in my non belief. If religion works for them, go for it as long as the religion doesn't restrict my ways. I am very moral and hope others are too. But live and let live.
I always get a kick out of sports when both sides are praying for a win..wonder which side their god is on!
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I can't remember if this was posted before.
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I'm an atheist and possibly a bit more militant about it than some of you. I do think religion overall is a force of harm so I'm occasionally one of those proselytizing atheists. I suspect this thread is quiet because the majority of posters are from the US and as has been pointed out already, atheists are a very distinct minority, and also very mistrusted. I think there's an additional barrier in the US for atheists to disclose their atheism.
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Huh, I've been walking in wood and forests every chance I get for years and never knew it had a name. I went through a pantheist phase - and still enjoy some of the literature - but I realized I no longer wanted or needed a spiritual placeholder. I enjoy the company of trees but I have no intention of worshipping them. My favorite woods helped me to recover last year, though, with exercise in a scenic place.🌳🌲🌳 I do have fun identifying possible Ents, and here are some favorites. Now I've got my Catholic hubby finding trees that seem human. Heh heh, I wonder if his church knows.
And here I was 9 days after having a kidney removed last September. I was pretty proud.
As far as my journey to nontheism, it was slow, lazy, and undramatic. I liked going to church growing up; ours was UCC so not terribly negative. But once I left home, it wasn't anything I really thought about, and I prefer sleeping late - plus I had some jobs that required me to work Sundays. I went to church with Hubby when our son was little, but as a spectator. We moved to another part of the metro area, and I quit going since our son was now in public schools. Once he turned 18, he stopped going. Hubby still goes, but sometimes skips. And our son, now in his 30s, joined a very open, progressive Episcopal congregation a few years ago. He goes frequently, and we all go occasionally. Culturally, I still like the music and architecture, and I must say that this particular congregation is very friendly and welcoming, whether one is a believer or not. They keep their religion in the church, and their social events - even their Christmas program - are secular. The main organizations they support are Doorways (housing and help for AIDS patients) and one of the city-wide food programs. So I seem to have found a place where I'm able to compromise a few times a year!
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"I was wondering why there are so few posts on this thread. I think it's because discussing our lack of belief can result in explaining our rejection of religion. Since this page can be seen by religious people, perhaps we are reluctant to give offense. What do others think? Are we shy, boring, or overly careful?"
ananda8 Obviously you tripped a switch, because the posts flowed it. This is a very active thread for the much diminished BCO in the modern era. Social media is where it's all happening. Nevertheless, there's lots of interesting peop[le posting here and it's, more than ever, an important topic
For me, I'm a lurker, but honestly, organised religion makes me so cross that I'm past complaining about it and happy in my atheist state.
Thanks to HikingLady, AliceBastable, LoveFromPhilly and illimae for responding to feedback for the article i'm writing. Will be back onto the text this week. If anybody else wants to chime in, see below, you're welcome to post here or PM me.
WRITING AN ARTICLE
I'm interested in the different ways we handle breast cancer diagnosis, treatment, the fear of recurrence without having religion as a prop, and I'd like to write about the methods we use to attain resilience without belief in a god. If anyone here would like to share their thoughts and experiences on this topic, that would be great. All contributors would be anonymous.
Thanks in advance.
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I think I just don't worry about things. I wait until they happen and then deal with them. My diagnosis was not terribly worrying and treatment didn't involve chemo, so I had an easy time of it. At my age, I idly wonder what will eventually kill me. More curious than fearful.
I was raised Methodist, became Episcopalian in college, and then Unitarian while my kids were little. The church had 2 services on Sunday. The early one was agnostic/atheist and the second was religious with sermon and hymns. We never went to that one. We quit going to church when we moved to Seattle. I studied some Tibetan Buddhism which is non-theistic. The closest I come to ever praying is a meditation which spreads benefit (whatever that means) to all realms of the living and dead. I do that only occasionally. In Seattle religion is not a topic of discussion. I have told people hiking in the mountains is spiritual for me and they just accept that. It does affect where I'm willing to live. I was raised in Oklahoma but could never go back to live. A lot of my family is atheist.
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traveltext, I think a basic tenet of Christianity is proselytizing so they are compelled to convert others. Because of that, their lives revolve around spreading the word of a mythical god, hoping that their belief in this being will bring them to some eternal reward despite any proof for that belief. Hence, many, many posting on the Christian threads to spread 'the word." On the other hand, atheists go about their life not needing a helping hand from a god, rather rely on humans.
Traveltext, who is your audience for that article?
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magiclight, the audience for my articles is people with breast cancer, either undergoing active treatment or post treatment. If anyone is familiar with the Facebook page "Beyond the Pink Moon" you'll understand my audience: https://www.facebook.com/groups/BeyondthePinkMoon/ There's lots of religious folk who will pray for other here. Christianity is quite a thing with this group. I just want to put the perspective on this topic from the point of view of atheists. The working title is: "Thanks for your offer of prayer, but I'm fine."
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Travel...got it.
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Traveltext
This might be handy.
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alice- I have always loved walking in the forest and beaches. I love the name Forest Bathing. It is a great name. I love old churches and cemeteries. I love the architecture of old churches. I have tremendous respect for churches who focus on social activism. I donate to church food banks and give money to churches that are specifically geared towards helping those who are in need. I won't donate to any church for religious study. I do think religious study is important when it's presented in an unbiased setting with differing views of opinion freely given. How many wars have been fought over religion and will continue to be fault over religion? Too many.
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AliceBastable,
Those trees are incredible. Thanks for posting the pictures. Right now my god of choice is gravity, that mysterious force that created matter and keeps it in motion. If I wasn't so attracted to gravity, it would be trees that I worship, those entities that provide us with the very air we breathe. Who needs gods when one has gravity and trees?
Traveltext,
Like Alice, I just faded from religious upbringing into non belief. The final gentle push came from reading the bible. I read it cover to cover and came away knowing I was an atheist. This seems to be a common experience among atheists.
Like Wren44 I have had experience studying Buddhism that lovely atheist philosophy but studied a tradition called Theravada. The meditation that Wren mentioned, called Metta in Theravada, is what helped me through diagnosis, treatment, and fear of recurrence. Metta is a meditation that wishes goodness to oneself, one's loved ones and slowly encompasses all of life. This type of meditation calms the mind.
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I am so happy to have found this thread.
I am only ADH/High risk and hopefully will never be anything else, but I have a slew of other medical conditions (Hypothyroidism and pretty serious mental illness, for starters) and I am constantly getting "praying for you" comments. I know they mean well, but I can't help but feel jealous that they have the comfort of thinking that speaking silently to an imaginary man in the sky is actually offering help and support.
I had a work friend the other day, also atheist, who came up to me out of no where and wrapped his arms around me. He said I looked sad and looked like I could use a little physical reminder that I am loved by many. That certainly made me feel better than thoughts and prayers.
The comments made about the stigma in the USA are true. I only mention my non-belief to certain people under very particular circumstances, and I definitely am not open about it to my Catholic loved ones.
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I am not really atheist. I am an agnostic that leans towards atheism. I kind of have trouble with definitive(s). I kind of raise an eyebrow when someone says "god exists" or something like "there are no god(s)". I like the thought of a god, it is really an interesting concept. When you start looking a bit deeper there are some flaws in that logic. I was raised christian and I once had a pastor say "what is true for us (congregation) must be true for a single mother in Africa". I don't remember the context of the point that he was using that statement in, but it started my slow change towards disbelief.
I am a father and I love my kids tremendously. One of my worst fears in life is getting Alzheimer or dementia because of the burden I would be to them. This father god concept is troubling. If my daughters god-forbid got cancer I would do anything to make that cancer go away. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around a loving-omniscient-omnipotent father that allows such pain, unfairness, and misery...because of freewill.
Yet here we are with so many daughters on a forum such as this with so much pain and unfairness. I don't even know any of you, and if I could wave a magic wand and take away your pain and make you better I would do it, and I am 100% confident all of you would do the same for me or my loved ones.
That being said I have no issue with theists. Theism gives hope and if used correctly can show some of the best of humanity. There is nothing wrong with repackaging hope and labeling it faith. I am adamantly opposed to anyone that would use their beliefs or even non-belief to harm others. I don't even have an issue with proselytizing. It is good for people to have a variety of experiences and be exposed to cultures and different ways of thinking. The desert, mountains, and valleys can all be beautiful it is just that I choose not to live in a desert or on a mountain. People's faith can be just as beautiful and even inspiring. Who am I to try and take that away from them?
At the end of the day I hope the kind and loving theists are correct. I hope they find their god(s). I hope they get the full rewards of their faith. I came from silence and if I am returned to silence simply because I did not jump onto the faith boat then so be it. I am ok with the peace that finality brings. If I am doomed to some ridiculous eternal punishment then all I can say is that my god-given life prepared me for that eternal misery.
Meanwhile, in whatever time remains I can work towards leaving something behind. Maybe it is the love for my family, maybe it is just making this world the tiniest bit better. Whatever it something insignificant yet maybe important to someone will survive me.
I will call out militant atheists. I envy faith and I have no problem locking horns so to speak with militant atheists.
Let everyone have whatever peace that they can find and that which comforts them. Whether we believe or not we are all in this together.
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Matt, I agree. People should be allowed to have whatever comfort they want, as long as it isn't hurting or interfering with others.
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I'm also interested in these stories we're sharing about how we arrived at our current position/belief/doubt about theism.
I grew up in an Episcopal church where the language (KJV Bible, 1928 or so prayers and liturgy) was poetic and mesmerizing. All the Biblical interpretations and lessons were interpreted metaphorically, which was quite attractive.
When I started to learn more science (astronomy, evolutionary biology, physics) and also philosophy, history, anthropology and sociology, my critical thinking just could not reconcile a belief in something so unprovable. I have a whole framework of morality and ethics without the extra helping of hypocrisy. Intellectual curiosity and Secular Humanism work very well for me.
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oh lol, so maybe the reason some atheists are quiet on this thread is that even here, outspoken (or 'militant') ones aren't welcomed
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I can’t be too militant. I work for a religious non profit
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moth-I welcome militant atheists. We need to hear all voices. When a Christian tells me my cancer is God's punishment for being a nonbeliever, I call them out quickly. I remind them there are plenty of Religious Jews and Christians who have cancer. The response is God is testing them. One is a punishment and the other is a test. What crazy rationalization.
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Traveltext,
Though I am an atheist, I am willing to let people pray for me if they want to… as most of my friends are non-believers, it's a rare event. My evangelical cousin (a family outlier) is one who can't help himself.... When I told him that got a pCR he went into a big prayer over the phone. It was completely sincere and full of thanks for my wellness, and while I had an eyeroll feeling, it did not bother me, because it felt genuine and sweet. That's his belief system, and he cares about me, and it's what he does with his worry or his thankfulness: talks to God. I find the prayer/God part completely silly but not the sentiment of love, or wanting to give thanks for the wellbeing of another person, which is kind/ meaningful. I basically consider the intent and don't get bent out of shape.
My resilience in the face of cancer comes from a few sources. First, I do not fear death. I'm pretty sure it's a lot like being in a deep, dreamless sleep— one of my favorite activities. My kids are grown (youngest is 21) and we have strong relationships and they are well launched. My loose threads are basically tied up and I don't have any big guilts or regrets. I am sure I would have a lot more fear if my kids were small. I lost a brother in childhood so there is a part of me that knows I got a long life compared to his, and so I feel lucky anyway.
The one large grief I had was thinking of never getting to be a grandmother-- a role I feel I was born for! That really feels like the worst part of possibly dying early. One of my younger friends is currently a stay home mom to a three year old and a one year old. I had been helping out once a week with them for a few months when I got my diagnosis. All during chemo I continued to go over once per week and rock the baby, and play with the three year old… It was peaceful, not taxing but in fact joyful and replenishing... babies don't give a hoot if you are bald, and this is a beautiful chance to experience a facsimile of grandmotherhood right now, in case.
I have incredibly wonderful, devoted friends who have made my life rich and full. I have peace and contentment, and feel lucky to have had the life i've already had, whatever happens.
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