Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Matt - if you read back on this thread, most of us are tolerant of religious believers. There are a TON of threads on BCO and elsewhere for people who think they believe, or want to believe, or want to share their beliefs.
To Moth's point - This thread is so those of us who DO NOT, have a safe place to share their views - militant or not.
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My closest friend is a devout Catholic. Whenever she tells me she will pray for me I always smile and say thank you. She comes from a place of sincerity, generosity and love. She isn't passing judgment. We have Lively discussion on religion. Yet we never become angry or frustrated with one another because both of us always come from a position of respect.
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I have no issue with theists, but rather theism, and certainly radical theism, because it is antithetical to my beliefs. As to radical atheists, they don't bother me because I have so much in common with them and I can learn from them.
Thanks santabarbarian and ananda8, for your thoughts.
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I can bite my tongue and ignore anyone who prays FOR me. But if someone started to pray AT me, I'd be pissed and let them know. That's taking advantage of a person's illness to selfishly shove your religion down their throats.
Does anyone here read Terry Pratchett? He was an atheist, but wrote brilliantly on the subject of personal religion - and big nasty religion - in his Discworld novels.
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alice- I never heard of Terry Pratchett but I will look it up. I'm with you . My friends and family can pray for me and I can smile and say thank you or if it makes you feel better but I don't want any person praying AT me.
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TravelText - I have no problem with death. And I am not afraid. If I simply disintegrate back to nature, or move into another world (parallel or in the clouds) or am reincarnated - all would be fine with me. (although I'd just as soon not come back as an ant)
My only fear is a lingering, painful transition. My Mother was basically a vegetable for 12 years, plugged into 3 different sockets. Since my Dad (at age 85) insisted on keeping her at home & being her major care giver, the toll on him and the rest of the family was devastating. She would have been horrified, so I'm grateful she didn't know. Needless to say my son saw all this as an adult and is aware that I don't want to be plugged in under any circumstances. Unfortunately I don't live in a state that might honor death with dignity.
Like Santabarbarian - My life has been good. I would have liked to have been a grandmother. My only son is 49 and they decided many years ago not to have any children. While I'd like to spend more time with them, we don't live in the same part of the country and only see each other a couple of times a year. I am satisfied that he's grown into a life he likes and is mostly happy with his choices.
Related to my cancer diagnoses - the first time I was in a hurry to "get it out" and get on with my life. It never occurred to me to think about death. With the recurrence two years later it was more of a slog, and particularly annoying since my MO recommended 'immediate' treatment due to HER2+ status. That meant I had to cancel two weeks in NYC with my BFF and four Broadway shows. Even more I had to cancel a cruise to Alaska with my son. Both were opportunities that can not be resurrected. Oh well. It was a long day-to-day slog with lots of yucky side effects - some permanent. I got through it, but will likely not choose to have chemo again should I have another recurrence. In spite of no pCR and other circumstances, I really didn't ponder death. Just quality of life.
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I too was hoping this would be a safe place as I need an outlet from all the christianitis I am surrounded with. I have no use for religion, I have had way too much of it. I don't fear death, I am facing reoccurrence and possible Mets right now and so many are "praying" for me. I don't fear death nor afterlife but I am terrified of pain and debilitation.
We saw the book of Mormon play, so good, funny and I totally got it.
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This thread feels like such a good place to discuss these huge issues.
As for what we go through--MinusTwo, you nailed it. Everyone who's faced a serious DX and difficult TX has given up things, and the losses are huge. I also had to cancel longtime plans for very wonderful fun experiences I couldn't do because of TX. We survivors also now live with more fear of the unknown, depending on our DX. So, we've given up some peace of mind about our futures.
I do have a long list of things I still want to do in my life, so I will be rather irked if my time is up soon. Grrrr.
However, I don't have much fear about how my end of life will be. My husband has a long career as a hospice nurse, and now he's a manager of nurses and social workers and chaplains and aides, for a large hospice. I have good faith in our hospice system, which didn't exist in this form 30 years ago. Hospice can make the end of life be comfortable; this was the case for both of my parents' end of life. DH says that almost never does Death With Dignity even come up, although we do have it in Oregon. Instead, good care with hospice coming in soon enough can really make almost any end of life comfortable.
DH and I also saw Book of Mormon. Perfect! Barbara Kingsolver's novel, The Poisonwood Bible, points out how disrespectful it is to not just let people be. Let others do religion and culture THEIR way! For instance, American missionaries try to grow American vegetables in Africa, where the climate is very different; it's a not-so-subtle metaphor about imposing one's cultural values on other people. The imported vegetables fail, of course!
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OMG i loved the Poisonwood Bible, one of my all time favs.
. we have a great hospice system here too and i work as a nurse care coordinator for home care and this includes hospice apps and hospice at home. One of the best things we have going in this region. Great to here lots of other areas have good end of life care, such an important need. And non religious ta boot!0 -
I had a recent PET scan as a follow-up to a nephrectomy last September. Clear, but then I had to look forward to a cardiovascular surgeon visit because the same lumpectomy pre-op scan last year that showed the kidney cancer also showed an aortic aneurysm. This was my first appointment for this issue, thanks to my dumbfuck PCP forgetting about it. So, I found out I'm still in the safe observation zone. First thing I told my husband was, "We can plan a vacation this year!" That's when I realized I'd kind of been holding my breath for the last year.
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DogMomRunner - working for a religious non profit must be interesting for you!
fwiw, I have spent close to 20 yrs now in an online community which is very dominated by religious peeps and made lots of friends there so it's not that I'm "spitting mad in your face angry atheist" 101% of the time0 -
Alice - so glad to hear you are comfortable planning a vacation.
I intend to go to my step-niece's wedding in LA in September and to Hawaii in January with my BFF. Either or both or neither might include a stop to see my son in San Francisco. I'm pretending there won't be at least a set of blood labs & maybe a scan or two in between.
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I don't fear death, only dying badly. I have to admit that I have had an exciting life with experiences like few have had. I was always happy I had 2 grandchildren born after my DX. They are now 17 and 12. I have finished two bucket lists. The doctors said that I am one in a hundred from surviving the damage of breast cancer treatment. My liver doc told me he was surprised I was still here. So, I have no regrets so far..but who knows what mischief I can get into! I will only be 77 this fall.
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Moth - Considering that there is a religious component to most of what my organization does, they are decently tolerant of us non religious. They pray in the morning meetings and I close my eyes and meditate.
I'm a geriatric social worker so death is pretty much a part of my everyday. My husband also works kind of in a "death field". Neither of us want extraordinary measures when that time comes. My fear is having something like ALS and not being able to do what I want to do, when I want to do it.
I've seen Barbara Kingsolver's books but have not read them
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For a counter intuitive book recommendation, try "Gilead" by Marilynne Robinson. It's about a preacher... a beautiful and deeply moving book. If every preacher was like this one, religion would not be such a bummer!
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Alic...so cute/funny
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Thanks to the respondents writing on your resilience and atheism. The article is here:
http://malebc.org/thanks-for-your-offer-of-prayer-...
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Very nice, Traveltext. Clear, concise and no snark. Not sure I could have pulled that part off. I really, really don't like organized religion.
Trish
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Well done, Traveltext. Have you gotten any feed back from other members of the malebc site?
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Rod, very nicely done. I appreciate having our perspectives out there. I echo these words above, especially Trishyla. I also wonder if I could have pulled it off without snark! When religion is hurled at me (always uninvited, like a party crasher you could do without), I have a hard time keeping a straight face and being civil, and I have to bite my tongue. Much blood.
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traveltext-well written and carefully crafted to share stories from real people without being snarky. Good job.
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thank you for sharing Rod! Always cool to see other folks blogs :-)
Nicely written! And also nice to “hear” other folks POVs all in one place.
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Thanks for the positive feedback. Yes, low on snark factor. Easier said than done haha.
Actually, I was thinking that nobody I know ever said they'd pray for me. Then I realised that my country is not overtly religious.
"The growing percentage of Australia's population reporting no religion has been a trend for decades, and is accelerating. Those reporting no religion increased noticeably from 19 per cent in 2006 to 30 per cent in 2016." Government Statistician.
I'll spread this story on social media and post here if there's feedback.
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Nice! Very respectful to all but also clear on not needing religion.
Okay, here's a new rant. A friend posted on FB about Luis Alvarez, the 9-11 responder who testified with Jon Stewart, going into hospice. One of my friend's super-religious pals wrote "I'm praying to Jesus to remove this cancer!" Not only stupid, but pretty damn offensive and egotistical if she thinks HER prayer is the one Jeebus will listen to? What a dumb cow.
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I'm with you, AliceBastable, and chiming in with you on your rant. Yes, it is so egotistical to think that if I pray loudly enough and am in the right club, I get the attention of the Decider Deity. That puppeteer deity is apparently very busy deciding which cancer to cure, which sports team loses, which side "wins" a war, which people die in a concentration camp, which children die of cancer and malnutrition...
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alice- I heard the same thing. How ridiculous!!! You would think if his family and friends prayers didn't do the trick, strangers prayers wouldn't either. Kudos to this 911 responder who is in hospice and still advocating for compensation for those who responded and were adversely affected by the toxins and PTSD .
For the past several days I've juggled clients around to visit my elderly neighbor in the hospital. She is deeply religious. She's also incorrigible . One of the nurses came in yesterday and told her "You should thank God you did wonderful with your surgery. My friends response was, "I'm not thanking God for this one I'm thanking my surgeon" The nurse was not amused but stifled a comment and walked off without saying another word. My little friend looked at me and says "I call them as I see them"
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Jo6359, your friend may be deeply religious, but she's got a ton of common sense. What a great response!
I'm on another board for a different cancer (🙄), and when someone posts they've had a clean follow-up scan, there are always a bunch of repetitive "Thank gawd" replies. I like to stick in some "Thank your surgeons" and "Thank modern medicine" comments just to bring some reality.
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If praying worked, my tumor would have been a fibroadenoma. All of my husband's family was praying for it to be benign. I think if it helps that person to pray, makes them feel good to think that there is someone listening to them then that's great. But what goes through their mind when it turns out to be a malignant tumor or ALS or dementia. Do they blame god, do they think they didn't pray hard enough
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When I was in 4th grade the father of one of my classmates died. The nuns had taught us that if we prayed for something and didn't get it, it meant that either we didn't pray hard enough or that we were praying for something that wasn't good for us. (Seriously.) Now, how does that make a nine-year-old girl who just lost her daddy feel?
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